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View Full Version : Critical bug: Cannot enter barbarian rage while under the effects of Madstone Rage



Shade
06-12-2012, 07:43 AM
Madstone Rage is now preventing nearly everything in the game, not limited to:
-Barbarian Rage (Very critical to fix this as it cripples an entire class for the thousands of players who have these boots)
-Many Epic Destiny abilitles including all of the active abilities in the fury tree.
-Even Darkvision. (AHH!! IM SO ANGRY I CANT SEE!)

Please try hard to fix this before release.

Steps to fix:

1. Examine the issue on a larger scale:
The big picture issue here:

EVERYTHING in the game that involves a special animation is by default considered "spellcasting" and thus "not useable by rage, not usueable while madstone raged" They have to manually go in 1 by 1 and flag the things to work with it.

2. What should be doned to fix way too often recurring bug permanently, once and for all:

Change Barbarian rage and Madstone rage to not block spellcasting.
Manually flag spells which it should actaully block as unuseable while its active. Much the same as some spells are flagged as "not useable in pvp".

AKA: An always off versus the current always on.

This fix would work for today, and for every day in the future, and mean that instead of "extra work everytime we make a new abilitiy that has an anim" its less work load of "work only when we make new spells"

and even if you forget to set said flag, the consequences are far less:

At worse, next time you add a spell, it will be usuable while madstoned because they forgot to set the flag.. But given the entire rest of your spellbook wont be, using the boots on a caster would still be suicicidal, so they wont be used. Its foolproof.

Ticker: This is the 8178th bug related to "cant activate this while raged" in DDO. We really need to do a global fix already.

(repost because this bug is well deserving of attention)

MRMechMan
06-12-2012, 07:52 AM
Yo Shade, I'm really happy for you, Ima Let you finish, but the eardweller-is-now-useless is one of the best bugs of all time.

/edit

but yea, that is a pretty annoying bug all things considered.

InsanityIsYourFriend
06-12-2012, 08:01 AM
not to be rude, but the reason they was messing with madstone yet again is ~my guess~ to fix torches not able to be used while madstoned... obviously it had many MANY backfires

donblas
06-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Please try hard to fix this before release.

(repost because this bug is well deserving of attention)

Sorry the devs are too busy changing death magic every hour. :D

morticianjohn
06-12-2012, 08:17 AM
You all should have just let them nerf the boots like they wanted and then we wouldn't have this issue.....

although I don't really want them to nerf my boots, I just don't want to have an issue like this on live.

Flavilandile
06-12-2012, 08:38 AM
A rage is a rage is a rage is a rage... You shouldn't be able to consciously stack them.

If the boots proc, good for you. You can have two rages at the same time. If not. *shrug*

I personally don't think it's a bug, but a feature.
Once raged ( any kind of rage ) you cannot use clickies and other abilities.

Chai
06-12-2012, 09:11 AM
A rage is a rage is a rage is a rage... You shouldn't be able to consciously stack them.

If the boots proc, good for you. You can have two rages at the same time. If not. *shrug*

I personally don't think it's a bug, but a feature.
Once raged ( any kind of rage ) you cannot use clickies and other abilities.

Buffs have always stacked with inate class abilities. When something works well and is uncontested by neither the players nor the devs for 5+ years, THEN a change occurs that breaks the items use by one or more classes, its a bug.

Ugumagre
06-12-2012, 02:41 PM
A rage is a rage is a rage is a rage... You shouldn't be able to consciously stack them.

If the boots proc, good for you. You can have two rages at the same time. If not. *shrug*

I personally don't think it's a bug, but a feature.
Once raged ( any kind of rage ) you cannot use clickies and other abilities.

I really donĀ“t know but ...who is playing melees anyway?

stainer
06-12-2012, 02:42 PM
Madstone Rage is now preventing nearly everything in the game, not limited to:
-Barbarian Rage (Very critical to fix this as it cripples an entire class for the thousands of players who have these boots)
-Many Epic Destiny abilitles including all of the active abilities in the fury tree.
-Even Darkvision. (AHH!! IM SO ANGRY I CANT SEE!)

Please try hard to fix this before release.

(repost because this bug is well deserving of attention)

Also

FvS can't cast heal spells while madstoned.

Not sure if that was brought up.

Kawai
06-12-2012, 02:46 PM
...If the boots proc, good for you. You can have two rages at the same time. If not. *shrug*

*shoots an arrow (pew) in the Barbiez booty... NOW he's enraged... :eek:
*running backwards -wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D

Gawna
06-12-2012, 03:09 PM
*shoots an arrow (pew) in the Barbiez booty... NOW he's enraged... :eek:
*running backwards -wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D

Are you roleplaying? I don't even understand what's going on here.

Galeria
06-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Take off the boots. Or have them nerfed.

Malshier
06-12-2012, 04:03 PM
People still wear madstone boots :confused:

I really like that the MOST CRITICAL REASON is because it stops barbs from raging. Not the Epic Destinies issues, but BARB RGRWAAARGGFHHHRTTTLLLGGRMMMPFH!!!!

Goolan
06-12-2012, 04:26 PM
Thanks for bringing this up again. I posted it back here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=377307

But it got very little attention. I guess when Axer talks, people listen!

Chai
06-12-2012, 05:18 PM
A rage is a rage is a rage is a rage... You shouldn't be able to consciously stack them.

If the boots proc, good for you. You can have two rages at the same time. If not. *shrug*

I personally don't think it's a bug, but a feature.
Once raged ( any kind of rage ) you cannot use clickies and other abilities.

So the new griefing tool will be the rage buff. Sucks that you built that self sufficient character that keeps itself displaced with shroud clickies and healed with scrolls. That 10% DPS sacrifice to get all those utilitarian abilities will all be for naught however, as your caster / bard just buffed (griefed) you with a rage buff that grants +1 to hit and +1 to damage, that makes you not able to use anything else for the duration. Hope the +1 to damage and 20 HP was worth it.

A griefer can then wipe a raid any time they wish by raging the healers.

A griefer can make it so barbarians cant use a far more effective rage simply by buffing them.

No thanks. Rage was working fine for 5 years and its a complete fail (if this is made WAI) that a barbarian cant use their INATE ABILITY because they have a far less effective buff. Why should they nerf anything that pertains to melee in this update at all?

Fenwulf
06-12-2012, 09:23 PM
This bug (least I hope it is a bug) has been being brought up since the first day of beta 1. To date have not seen any confirmation that it is a known issue by any Dev. or WAI. Please at least if this is intended let us know, then at least we can stop reporting it as a bug.

justagame
06-12-2012, 09:46 PM
IIRC, a while back they tried a change to the boots that would no longer block so many things (spells, clickies, abilities, etc.), but <GASP> it was noted that casters would actually benefit, even with the penalty to DCs.

Thus it was scrapped, I'm sure leaving all sorts of remnants of things that don't work.

Shade
06-12-2012, 10:58 PM
Guys I know exactly what triggered this bug.. Even speculating its possibly not a bug after the 9000+ reply thread ages is pretty silly, the devs obvious know exactly how it worked then, and it was working right at that moment (bsides them forgetting to remove the shaken effect)

What happened:
They updated Barbarian Rage. (Added a flag to it to make it count for Fury's various abilities)
Upon updating the ability, it was not flagged again as useable while madstoned rage. (thats always default: No) They need to reflag it.

Exact same bug happened with monk stances (Which were all updated to be compatiable with new ED and to make some more powerful)
on live you could switch stances with madstone, beta you cannot - Exact same bug.

The issue here:

EVERYTHING in the game is by default "not useable by rage, not usueable while madstone raged" They have to manually go in 1 by 1 and flag the things to work with it.

What they should do to fix this way too often recurring bug permanently:

Change Bbn rage and madstone rage to not block ANYTHING.

Manually flag spells which it should actaully flag as unuseable while its active.

EG: An always off versus the current always on.

Would be a fix that would work today, and every day in the future.

This is the 8178th bug related to "cant activate this while raged" in DDO. They really need to do a global fix already.

Shade
06-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Also

FvS can't cast heal spells while madstoned.

Not sure if that was brought up.

Very funny.

Madstone Rages descript 1:1 from the game itself, last line:

... while prohibiting any spell casting.

Does not stay "while prohibiting any everything".

The fact the name has the word "rage" in it makes people speculate its meant to do more is rather illogical.

The rage spell does not prevent a single action in the game.

Jay203
06-13-2012, 12:07 AM
just on the side
isn't it silly to have a monk raging? :p
shouldn't it effect concentration? :p:p:p
just a thought xD

Flavilandile
06-13-2012, 01:53 AM
So the new griefing tool will be the rage buff. Sucks that you built that self sufficient character that keeps itself displaced with shroud clickies and healed with scrolls. That 10% DPS sacrifice to get all those utilitarian abilities will all be for naught however, as your caster / bard just buffed (griefed) you with a rage buff that grants +1 to hit and +1 to damage, that makes you not able to use anything else for the duration. Hope the +1 to damage and 20 HP was worth it.


You know that how rage worked for years. And when the bard/wiz cast it he made sure those that needed to be unraged were ouside the area of effect.

There's not just griefers in DDO... there's actually people that do play for fun and like to cooperate in a party.

Oh, and nice two-post answer... padding post count ?

Shade
06-13-2012, 04:12 AM
just on the side
isn't it silly to have a monk raging? :p
shouldn't it effect concentration? :p:p:p
just a thought xD

Should be improving your concentration skill by +2, bug report it if it's not.

Jay203
06-13-2012, 09:40 PM
Should be improving your concentration skill by +2, bug report it if it's not.

i just find the concept of a raging person able to maintain the concentration of a monk's style of fighting to be... intriguing :D:D

Rodasch
06-14-2012, 01:57 AM
Yo Shade, I'm really happy for you, Ima Let you finish, but the eardweller-is-now-useless is one of the best bugs of all time.

/edit

but yea, that is a pretty annoying bug all things considered.

Dude, I almost wet my pants laughing when I read this. You win the internetz for the evening.

dubyprime
06-14-2012, 04:08 AM
So the new griefing tool will be the rage buff. Sucks that you built that self sufficient character that keeps itself displaced with shroud clickies and healed with scrolls. That 10% DPS sacrifice to get all those utilitarian abilities will all be for naught however, as your caster / bard just buffed (griefed) you with a rage buff that grants +1 to hit and +1 to damage, that makes you not able to use anything else for the duration. Hope the +1 to damage and 20 HP was worth it.


Sucks, I'll have to run around hitting for 10 instead of 11. =)

In all seriousness, Please fix the madstone thing. I know its a pain. I know you have to go in and have the software engineers go in edit all these abilities again. I know everyone is over worked and every dev probably hates madstone boots at this point because of all the trouble they cause.

I'm so angry I can't see is the best thing I've seen today.


As far as Shade's global fix, If that is the case Madstone rage and barbarian rage have different flags. It may be easier to alter madstone so that it uses the same flag as barbarian rage. Then this problem may occur less frequently. Then again, rogues with madstones won't be able to disarm.

LightBear
06-14-2012, 04:22 AM
Shade's global fix most probably will have unwanted side effects as well.

The easyest solution is that they'll make level 1 (and lower or blank) spells useable from items while in rage.
The "and lower" is there as torches most probably are a level zero or don't have a caster level.

Btw class ability's should not always be considered to be a spell, some are but most are not.

Shade
06-14-2012, 06:22 AM
Shade's global fix most probably will have unwanted side effects as well.
I don't see how.

The point is, if their are ones my way, they will NOT hurt the players, nor really the game. If casters can unintendedly use the boots and gain the 2str/4 con, thats not game breaking. If barbarians cant enter a rage period while wearing them, that is game breaking and forces them not to use the item.


The easyest solution is that they'll make level 1 (and lower or blank) spells useable from items while in rage.
The "and lower" is there as torches most probably are a level zero or don't have a caster level.

Btw class ability's should not always be considered to be a spell, some are but most are not.

I hardly see how that is easy, nor a fix. You don't know how torches or other items are coded internally, they could be treated as level100 spells, or lvl69 spells, etc. The fact is, they are spells, and spellcasting is preventing, thats an issue.

Disable spellcasting is prevented, manually flag spells as "not- while madstoned, not while bbn raged" much like they are currently flagged as "not in pvp". Thats the "easy" fix that solves the issue today, and every day.

At worse, next time they add a spell, it will be usuable while madstoned because they forgot to set the flag.. But given the entire rest of your spellbook wont be, using the boots on a caster woudl still be suicicidal, so they wont be used. Its foolproof my way.

kzeast
06-14-2012, 06:53 AM
I think I have a very different view of what "critical bug" means.

I suspect the devs may too...

Archangel666
06-14-2012, 07:09 AM
So the new griefing tool will be the rage buff. Sucks that you built that self sufficient character that keeps itself displaced with shroud clickies and healed with scrolls. That 10% DPS sacrifice to get all those utilitarian abilities will all be for naught however, as your caster / bard just buffed (griefed) you with a rage buff that grants +1 to hit and +1 to damage, that makes you not able to use anything else for the duration. Hope the +1 to damage and 20 HP was worth it.

A griefer can then wipe a raid any time they wish by raging the healers.

A griefer can make it so barbarians cant use a far more effective rage simply by buffing them.

No thanks. Rage was working fine for 5 years and its a complete fail (if this is made WAI) that a barbarian cant use their INATE ABILITY because they have a far less effective buff. Why should they nerf anything that pertains to melee in this update at all?

Toggle Defensive Fighting on. Toggle Defensive Fighting back off again. Rage (spell) gone.

LightBear
06-14-2012, 07:55 AM
I don't see how.



And that's why it probably has unwanted side effects.

Btw: spell levels are indicated on the clickies, I can't remember if torches have this indication as well.

Shade
06-19-2012, 11:11 PM
I think I have a very different view of what "critical bug" means.

I suspect the devs may too...

Yet one minor change to your prefer class and theres a thousand reply thread about it.

Losing 6 dex, 30% striding, 4 str and 8 con, and 15% attack speed is a critical loss to the bbn class.

You need only read one of the 10+ threads from fighters very upset over losing 2 str/con from the exceptional change to get how important this is to some players.

Just barb players are so used to nerfs now, that this major unintended one comes along and we aren't surprised.

Doesn't make it any less critical.

And I think some devs definetely agree. Just said ones may not have the power to decide what gets priority to be fixed.

9Crows
06-19-2012, 11:25 PM
its interesting how half of the responces to shades posts are trolling posts about previous posts of his instead of commenting on the problems hes talking about.... i have a barb in my stable of toons and also think this is a big issue...

FooWonk
06-19-2012, 11:45 PM
its interesting how half of the responces to shades posts are trolling posts about previous posts of his instead of commenting on the problems hes talking about.... i have a barb in my stable of toons and also think this is a big issue...

I don't have a barbarian and I think it's a bug that needs to be fixed as well.

Xezrak
06-20-2012, 12:01 AM
If its so critical it sounds like madstone boots really are OP, probably could use a nerf :P

but yeah I agree, this should be fixed I can understand why shade is so upset about this.

threefeetunder
06-20-2012, 12:40 AM
Madstone Rage is now preventing nearly everything in the game

Oh hey, will you look at that, all songs including fatesinger stuff still work with madstone :D Of course they tend to sound a bit like this ('http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0gKm8YHtsM')

When raging, no reason you can't rage some more :D /signed


Losing 6 dex, 30% striding, 4 str and 8 con, and 15% attack speed is a critical loss to the bbn class.
You also lose 2 bab from full BAB you get from madstone (even barbarians only get 2/3 BAB from epic levels)

CountHenri
06-20-2012, 12:53 AM
i just find the concept of a raging person able to maintain the concentration of a monk's style of fighting to be... intriguing :D:D

Ahhh so much to learn Grasshopper...

You must focus your rage into harmony with your spirit and be master of it...

Now take this pebble from my hand before I f*** your s*** up royally...

Auran82
06-20-2012, 01:19 AM
i just find the concept of a raging person able to maintain the concentration of a monk's style of fighting to be... intriguing :D:D

Barbarian rage knocks my monkbarian out of stance too.

Just sayin.

Yalann
06-20-2012, 04:27 AM
I don't have a barbarian and I think it's a bug that needs to be fixed as well.

And I do have a horc barb but like many others feel that a bug for 1 item is, well, less important than things like broken lessers that affect every char or Judgement being able to grief any palemaster. But I guess I just don't understand the meaning of critical.

Henky
06-20-2012, 05:34 AM
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4474556#post4474556

Posted on closed beta, no dev responses.

MsEricka
06-20-2012, 01:34 PM
Critical no.
Drama yes.

Chai
06-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Toggle Defensive Fighting on. Toggle Defensive Fighting back off again. Rage (spell) gone.

Shouldnt need to do this. Its also a loss of DPS in the middle of moving combat.

Thrudh
06-20-2012, 02:09 PM
People still wear madstone boots :confused:

I really like that the MOST CRITICAL REASON is because it stops barbs from raging. Not the Epic Destinies issues, but BARB RGRWAAARGGFHHHRTTTLLLGGRMMMPFH!!!!

And it apparently "cripples" the class if barbarians can't have their rage and madstone rage on at the same time.

Thrudh
06-20-2012, 02:12 PM
If its so critical it sounds like madstone boots really are OP, probably could use a nerf :P

Exactly.

But yeah it should be fixed (especially the epic destinies part)

Chai
06-20-2012, 02:13 PM
You know that how rage worked for years. And when the bard/wiz cast it he made sure those that needed to be unraged were ouside the area of effect.

There's not just griefers in DDO... there's actually people that do play for fun and like to cooperate in a party.

Oh, and nice two-post answer... padding post count ?

This is incorrect.

Rage buff gave a -2AC debuff which some people did not want, so they would move out of the way when it was cast to avoid the buff. Rage buff did not make it so you could not use any other rage.

It is Madstone rage we are talking about here - which is not allowing barbarians to use their innate rage.

Madstone boots arent OP and will even be less powerful now with +1 to hit for each str mod not being what it used to be. Theres no reason to put an item into the game, wait 5 years for thousands of players to farm it, then effectively nerf it. In fact, the ratio of power it brings now compared to the ratio of power it added when it was first released makes it far less powerful nowdays. A +4 str stacking rage adds more power ratio-wise to a 38 str barbarian than it does a 88 str barbarian.

Phidius
06-20-2012, 02:22 PM
Barbarian rage knocks my monkbarian out of stance too.

Just sayin.

Love to see that.


...(AHH!! IM SO ANGRY I CANT SEE!)...

Been there... ain't pretty.

For the record, I think Madstone Boots screwing a non-bluebar is absolutely not WAI, and needs to be fixed.

Chai
06-20-2012, 02:23 PM
its interesting how half of the responces to shades posts are trolling posts about previous posts of his instead of commenting on the problems hes talking about.... i have a barb in my stable of toons and also think this is a big issue...

This is pretty rampant on the forums. There are specific people who have been around for a while who have been trolled by the same other specific people for five years or so now. Its predictable to the point where you could set a watch to it. The minute one of those specific people posts, its a small matter of time before the pile on begins.

Ovrad
06-20-2012, 02:59 PM
This is pretty rampant on the forums. There are specific people who have been around for a while who have been trolled by the same other specific people for five years or so now. Its predictable to the point where you could set a watch to it. The minute one of those specific people posts, its a small matter of time before the pile on begins.

I don't fully agree with you. Sure there might be a little of lingering rivalry, but it's the tone of the post that begets most of it. "MY class as a bug that I don't like, so devs must stop their work on other buggy classes and fix this right NOW!"

Ape_Man
06-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Guys, please stop trolling Shade just because he's Shade. He's right on this issue and you all know it.

Thrudh
06-20-2012, 03:17 PM
This is pretty rampant on the forums. There are specific people who have been around for a while who have been trolled by the same other specific people for five years or so now. Its predictable to the point where you could set a watch to it. The minute one of those specific people posts, its a small matter of time before the pile on begins.

I don't respond to every one of Shade's posts... It's not the poster I respond to; it's the posts.

Shade is right that this needs to be fixed, but once again, he went over-the-top in his presentation of the problem.

Ape_Man
06-20-2012, 03:20 PM
I don't respond to every one of Shade's posts... It's not the poster I respond to; it's the posts.

Shade is right that this needs to be fixed, but once again, he went over-the-top in his presentation of the problem.

An advocate is supposed to advocate.

Chai
06-20-2012, 03:25 PM
I don't fully agree with you. Sure there might be a little of lingering rivalry, but it's the tone of the post that begets most of it. "MY class as a bug that I don't like, so devs must stop their work on other buggy classes and fix this right NOW!"

Doesnt matter if you agree with me or not. The clear cut evidence tells the story. The same people who have been piling on Shade because hes Shade for years now are in this thread doing it again. It detracts from the topic at hand, which is that an item worked one way for 5+ years, didnt negatively affect anyone for that length of time, and now when they begin messing with it, bugs appear that make it so one class cant use their innate defining ability of the class, while madstone is active.

Auran82
06-20-2012, 05:02 PM
Doesnt matter if you agree with me or not. The clear cut evidence tells the story. The same people who have been piling on Shade because hes Shade for years now are in this thread doing it again. It detracts from the topic at hand, which is that an item worked one way for 5+ years, didnt negatively affect anyone for that length of time, and now when they begin messing with it, bugs appear that make it so one class cant use their innate defining ability of the class, while madstone is active.

Doesn't make it a critical bug, there happen to be other boots you can wear amazingly.

Thrudh
06-20-2012, 11:20 PM
An advocate is supposed to advocate.

You lose credibility if you sell it too hard.

DarkForte
06-21-2012, 01:04 AM
Wait... so Shade found a bug that prevents the *main feature* of a class (the barbarian rage, if you didn't catch it) from working at all when using barbarian(or general melee)-oriented items (everything but the potency on madstone boots screams berserkergang barbarian).

I find it great that people deem mocking him for wanting such bug fixed more relevant than the actual discussion of the bug per se. Keep that up, fellow forumites, that's exactly what we need here. NERF BARBS!!!!!!!!one

Yalann
06-21-2012, 01:39 AM
Wait... so Shade found a bug that prevents the *main feature* of a class (the barbarian rage, if you didn't catch it) from working at all when using barbarian(or general melee)-oriented items (everything but the potency on madstone boots screams berserkergang barbarian).

I find it great that people deem mocking him for wanting such bug fixed more relevant than the actual discussion of the bug per se. Keep that up, fellow forumites, that's exactly what we need here. NERF BARBS!!!!!!!!one

Read the posts. Noone is really saying it shouldn't be fixed. And it affects far more than just barbs... But there are bugs that cannot be avoided and have FAR nastier effects (aka killing your char, getting your char perma stuck, TR/lessering problems, MANY chars not getting lvl24 stat points, the nearly game-breaking weapon style changing bug, etc.). There is an easy way to avoid this problem: don't wear madstones until it's fixed. Atleast it has a temporary solution unlike many of the bugs.


(repost because this bug is well deserving of attention)

Also, he reposted an existing bug report not something he recently discovered as he himself states. Most bug threads have not had much response so far and there is no need to keep reposting every one you personally deem more important than others. It just spams forums and wastes time.

Shade
06-21-2012, 03:52 AM
Doesn't make it a critical bug, there happen to be other boots you can wear amazingly.

And it's not your job to decide that either. Thats the devs job. It's not helpful to a dev reading this bug report to come in with your opinions on minor matters like that. They will decide if this bug is important or not on their own.

You're doing exactly what Chai said.

Plus your just off base. There are not any other boots at all in the game from lvl14-19 that effect DPS. There are not any in the game period that allow you to swing faster - which is massive to a bbn who cant use haste clickies. The ONLY other boots you can use offensively are the epic abishai as part of the 3 piece set, whcih very are far out of reach of 100,000 of bbns who do have the madstone boots.

So yea you could wear some striders or dex boots instead. The loss to your character is pretty massive though. One could say a "criticla" loss.

Shade
06-21-2012, 03:55 AM
Also, he reposted an existing bug report not something he recently discovered as he himself states. Most bug threads have not had much response so far and there is no need to keep reposting every one you personally deem more important than others. It just spams forums and wastes time.

Unfair and incorrect.

The devs DO encourage more bug reports if the previously ones weren't 100% or you discovered more details on said bug. And they weren't 100%.

Mine is MUCH more concise, and covers more abilities.
EG: Darkvision. I've not seen that mentioned in any other bug report. Was not in my previous one as I had not tested that that early.

And my old one was in the closed beta forums, thus I could not reply to it. So a repost was neccesary

Thrudh
06-21-2012, 08:26 AM
So yea you could wear some striders or dex boots instead. The loss to your character is pretty massive though. One could say a "criticla" loss.

Not being madstoned is not a "massive" loss or a "critical" loss..

This bug should absolutely be fixed, and soon. But not being madstoned does not means your character now sucks. My barbarian runs around with striders on all the time, and does just fine. He only madstones for raid boss fights. I'd rather have the ability to use a Shroud displacement clickable or even Shroud Haste clickable most of the time (potions are too short duration)

95% max DPS does not equal gimp. Why don't you powergamers understand that? Do you all have OCD or something?

darksol23
06-21-2012, 08:34 AM
Getting out my *popcorn* for the discussion of the most important bug in MotU.

Orratti
06-21-2012, 10:51 AM
My apologies to you Shade and all the other barbs and other melees out there.

After years of listening to how awesome these boots are I finally took the effort to grind out a pair on 2 different characters (still not my barb) so of course they are going to be broken in some way now that I have them.

Wraith_Sarevok
06-21-2012, 01:52 PM
Not being madstoned is not a "massive" loss or a "critical" loss..

This bug should absolutely be fixed, and soon. But not being madstoned does not means your character now sucks. My barbarian runs around with striders on all the time, and does just fine. He only madstones for raid boss fights. I'd rather have the ability to use a Shroud displacement clickable or even Shroud Haste clickable most of the time (potions are too short duration)

95% max DPS does not equal gimp. Why don't you powergamers understand that? Do you all have OCD or something?

DDO is down so I can't log in at the moment, but just off the top of my head these are the only other boots I carry besides Madstone:

* Epic Boots of Corrosion - Minor offensive item. Almost always wear them. These are my main boots now, having demoted Madstone. They end up giving me +3 STR and a Disintegration Guard so not too much DPS. The acid resist 30 is another reason I wear them, but that's a defensive feature. The only time I don't wear them is when I'm tanking a melee-heavy boss with Madstone. The +40-80 HP bonus is extremely useful for keeping me alive.

* Firestorm Greaves - Purely defensive item. Situational at best. I think I use it to run through traps, when swimming in lava, in phase 1 of ToD, and when tanking Epic Conjoined Abishai Devastator.

* Kundarak Delving Boots - Immunity item. Very situational. I very rarely wear these during TR's unless I know that I'm going into a heavy caster-based quest. I never use them at endgame unless someone forgets to cast FoM on me. Maybe pull them out against LoB hounds, eVoN6 ice base, Necro 3 Tomb of the Forbidden, or a boss that likes to spam holds.

* Anger's Wrath - Attack Bonus item. Never used at endgame. I wear these all the time during TR's up until I can use Kundarak and Madstone. They beat out the regular Boots of Corrosion any day.

* +6 Dex boots of Striding 30% - Retired. I used to wear these whenever crossing large explorer areas, but drinking Haste potions has the same effect. Dex is better placed on a ring anyway and you can easily get that through lootgen, crafting, or Tumbleweed from Hound. Striding comes on the upgraded Quiver of Alacrity now, so no need for these boots.


Those are all the other boots that ANY melee class would wear. As you can see, Madstone is by far the most useful pair of boots followed by Epic Boots of Corrosion. But Madstone is also MUCH easier to get since it comes from an old raid. Losing them not only removes a valuable attack speed clickie, but it also badly lowers my HP when tanking let's say... Lord of Blades. I always use Madstones before going into a rage to extend my rage duration by as much as 24 seconds. Now I've lost all that rage time.

Shade
06-21-2012, 05:11 PM
Doesn't make it a critical bug, there happen to be other boots you can wear amazingly.

We had a chat with +majmalphunk (head of DDO QA) today on lamannia. His response to my comment on this critical bug:


Critical yes, blocking at this late.,..no.

So yea. It is critical. Thread complete.

He also mentioned it not gona be fixed for live, and that they have "4" bugs in their queue related to Madstone.

Possibly U14P1 .. He mentioned it was "set for patch".

Can provide a screenshot of the chat log if you don't believe it.

Chai
06-21-2012, 05:17 PM
Not being madstoned is not a "massive" loss or a "critical" loss..

This bug should absolutely be fixed, and soon. But not being madstoned does not means your character now sucks. My barbarian runs around with striders on all the time, and does just fine. He only madstones for raid boss fights. I'd rather have the ability to use a Shroud displacement clickable or even Shroud Haste clickable most of the time (potions are too short duration)

95% max DPS does not equal gimp. Why don't you powergamers understand that? Do you all have OCD or something?

So when the expectation of the 95+% of all gamers that do not read the forums (taps sig) is that they will work together (because they have for 5 years now) and are madstoned, and try to rage but cant, that is somewhat more than 5% of max DPS of their toon they just lost. They just lost ~12 (or more depending on race) strength, x3 crit, and roughly 100 HP.

For the 5% who do read the forums, we know not to use the boots or else we cant rage, so we only lose 4 str + 8 con + attack speed and have to slot 6 dex somewhere else. I bet if TOD rings just stopped working everyones pantys would be up in a bundle, but because its shade who posted it and its about barbarians (in his case) people begin trolling and piling on.

This also hurts the NON powergamers who can run reavers and easily obtain these, more than it hurts the powergamers who likely have something much better slotted that gives a more perminent set bonus, so your powergamer assumption is invalid by a long shot.

Missing_Minds
06-21-2012, 05:40 PM
We had a chat with +majmalphunk (head of DDO QA) today on lamannia. His response to my comment on this critical bug:
So a bug like this rates critical, but not game breaking. Noted.

Makes you wonder about the issue where mouse placement utterly breaks combat rates in the priority schema of there. *shrugs*

Oh well, here is looking to 14.1 patch!!!!!! :)

Shade
07-06-2012, 01:13 AM
Not fixed in U14.1.
...

Tolero
07-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Not fixed in U14.1.
...

Still being looked into. There's more going on under the hood than anticipated. Will be unlikely to make it into patch 1, but aiming for patch 2.

sephiroth1084
07-07-2012, 01:02 AM
Still being looked into. There's more going on under the hood than anticipated. Will be unlikely to make it into patch 1, but aiming for patch 2.
Not sure if this was brought up, but Madstone Rage is also preventing Stealth and Search, among other things.

ainmosni
07-07-2012, 06:31 AM
i just find the concept of a raging person able to maintain the concentration of a monk's style of fighting to be... intriguing :D:D

once it is comitted to muscle memory, it's instinct and stops being something you have to think about.

THIS IS BASIC MARSHAL ARTS

krackythehoodedone
07-07-2012, 06:46 AM
Ok as long as it is a bug and getting fixed i can live with it

Is Rage stopping Archers Focus also considered a bug and gonna be fixed pls ?

sephiroth1084
07-07-2012, 01:50 PM
And Madstone prevents the switching of monk stances.

brzytki
07-07-2012, 02:00 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to make a list of what it doesn't prevent instead? ;)