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View Full Version : Stop telling me how I should feel



deahamlet
06-08-2012, 01:20 PM
A gazillion threads and I'm getting ****ed.

If you are not a pm wizard or divine caster nor play these other than (omg they're the easy button I'm going to roll one just cause of that but I hatorz them).. shut your mouth!

I can choose how to feel about my favorite toons. You can't tell me I shouldn't be upset disappointed and all that.

You want me to solo more? That's what you'll get after this.
You want me to quit healing pugs? Done deal DDO. Done deal. Implosion and destruction kept it fun (cause you know melees whine like children if I kite through bb cause apparently only they should have fun and I should just spam mass heal like a good girl). I leave the pug healing job to the pros. The healbots. I bow out and shall keep making self-healing toons so I don't care that there is no divine to be found.

I guess I'll also leave the epic destinies to my final life, no need to ruin bravery elite streak and the alternatives of subpar hilarious nuking on a dc caster, cc bot, Hage bot, hjeal biatch... sound very unappealing to me.

I don't care that they are "new" difficulties. Core feature of a pm is death spells. A class should be able to utilize their core features in ALL freaking content. How useful of you to say play my Hage disco slave or gtfo cause epic hard and elite is for dps. And removing my fun as a divine, how nice of you all to decide difficult contet should mean divines have to do naught but heal.

I'm not happy and I'm allowed to feel that way. You feel whatever you want but if you don't play impacted classes your opinions are uninformed.

Rizzyn
06-08-2012, 01:29 PM
A gazillion threads and I'm getting ****ed.

If you are not a pm wizard or divine caster nor play these other than (omg they're the easy button I'm going to roll one just cause of that but I hatorz them).. shut your mouth!

I can choose how to feel about my favorite toons. You can't tell me I shouldn't be upset disappointed and all that.

You want me to solo more? That's what you'll get after this.
You want me to quit healing pugs? Done deal DDO. Done deal. Implosion and destruction kept it fun (cause you know melees whine like children if I kite through bb cause apparently only they should have fun and I should just spam mass heal like a good girl). I leave the pug healing job to the pros. The healbots. I bow out and shall keep making self-healing toons so I don't care that there is no divine to be found.

I guess I'll also leave the epic destinies to my final life, no need to ruin bravery elite streak and the alternatives of subpar hilarious nuking on a dc caster, cc bot, Hage bot, hjeal biatch... sound very unappealing to me.

I don't care that they are "new" difficulties. Core feature of a pm is death spells. A class should be able to utilize their core features in ALL freaking content. How useful of you to say play my Hage disco slave or gtfo cause epic hard and elite is for dps. And removing my fun as a divine, how nice of you all to decide difficult contet should mean divines have to do naught but heal.

I'm not happy and I'm allowed to feel that way. You feel whatever you want but if you don't play impacted classes your opinions are uninformed.

Have you played your PM or Divine in any of the new Epic Content as of yet?

I'm asking as an interested party; with a Favored Soul and a Rogue/Assassain III.

danotmano1998
06-08-2012, 01:35 PM
Take a deep breath.

For all we know, they've already changed their minds on the mechanic and have made code changes and haven't told us yet.

Without communication from Turbine, we DON'T know!
(hint to the turbine forum folk??)

deahamlet
06-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Not my PM, I'd probably want to strangle something/someone.
My FvS was copied over before I TRed (myddo doesn't update for any of my toons). I'm pretty much heal biatch in epic hard/elite. Or I can tell everyone to stuff it and kite through BB. Or just go back to epic normal. Which is what I ended up doing after that fun snooze fest.

That's been the lovely experience.

deahamlet
06-08-2012, 01:39 PM
Take a deep breath.

For all we know, they've already changed their minds on the mechanic and have made code changes and haven't told us yet.

Without communication from Turbine, we DON'T know!
(hint to the turbine forum folk??)

Lack of communication makes me like them less and make me want to give them less money.

It does not make me optimistic that they're going to change.

Munkenmo
06-08-2012, 01:42 PM
Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Rizzyn
06-08-2012, 01:55 PM
Not my PM, I'd probably want to strangle something/someone.
My FvS was copied over before I TRed (myddo doesn't update for any of my toons). I'm pretty much heal biatch in epic hard/elite. Or I can tell everyone to stuff it and kite through BB. Or just go back to epic normal. Which is what I ended up doing after that fun snooze fest.

That's been the lovely experience.

I think, if you get the time and the opportunity, get your FvS or PM in the Open Beta.

I think you'll find that this one item has been greatly exaggerated.

It does not effect Epic Normal; it MAY effect Epic HARD and WILL effect Epic ELITE.

Your current experience in the current content will not be changing, and according to Dev discussions while in the game, and some comments in the forums by players and Devs alike, it is being reviewed seriously and may only effect Epic ELITE. That said, I have played an Assassin and a Favored Soul under this, I did fine. I also watched a Pale Master do well, though they have certain bugs that have nothing to do with Hard to Kill, and that they are aware of and are fixing or have fixed internally, just not on this Build.

I'm not trying to tell you how to feel, I am merely describing my own experience. Having played under this, I think I have something of an informed perspective.

With my Favored Soul, I have a Favored Soul partner. We ran the content in a pair, and with the use of Circle of Death, as a primarily "Mob softening Spell", we found that we had very little trouble. We could kite them through Blade Barriers, or -- once energy drained -- destroy then with Destruction or Implosion. Neither of us have Slay Living. I should point out that the change in combat mechanics did benefit my AC and damage mitigation, and the Spell mechanic update has improved my Healing overall, as well as the damage of some of my spells. PMs on this board have reported improvements in their "Healing" using the Death Aura spells as well. In my opinion, there's a lot to like in the Expansion.

My Rogue also has a partner, he doesn't go anywhere without his Tank. I have also been successful with this character, though the difficulty and high HP of some of the mobs has necessitated a general change in tactics. Stealthing in to Assassinate a high CR target was always a risk, it is more of a given now. I am alright with this, as if someone has the aggro, I can whittle most things down to 50% quickly, at which point Vorpal Strikes and ManSlayers come back into play. It's a matter of perspective, I suppose.

I think MajMalphunction is quoted somewhere as saying "We do not scale our Elite quests with solo play in mind. This is by design." Being that this is likely true, why would they then scale Epic questis with solo play in mind, which may not be your concern, OP, like many of us you may be a real team player, but I think a lot of the hue and outcry we are all seeing are due to people thinking that the challenge of a quest is measured by how difficult it should be for 1 player. It isn't. That mode is called Casual or even Solo. Epic's are party quests, but even then, the Devs actually made them scale, so you can try to Due or run with Panthers and Hirelings, which -- I think, is a very nice option, and under those circumstances you might not even see Hard to Kill.

Grace_ana
06-08-2012, 02:01 PM
I think, if you get the time and the opportunity, get your FvS or PM in the Open Beta.

I think you'll find that this one item has been greatly exaggerated.

It does not effect Epic Normal; it MAY effect Epic HARD and WILL effect Epic ELITE.


Did you not read? The OP already did that and is speaking from experience.

Rizzyn
06-08-2012, 02:07 PM
Did you not read? The OP already did that and is speaking from experience.

I misread. He stated not his PM. I thought he had a problem getting them in. Apologies. My experience was different from yours in the Closed Beta. Hard to Kill has not been prevalent in the Open, or my party was too small to scale up into it. It will be present in Epic Elite. Play did not differ greatly for me in the new Epics, than they do in the others.

Open Beta seems to have tuned this element back, save for the highest difficulties.

deahamlet
06-08-2012, 02:09 PM
I think MajMalphunction is quoted somewhere as saying "We do not scale our Elite quests with solo play in mind. This is by design." Being that this is likely true, why would they then scale Epic questis with solo play in mind, which may not be your concern, OP, like many of us you may be a real team player, but I think a lot of the hue and outcry we are all seeing are due to people thinking that the challenge of a quest is measured by how difficult it should be for 1 player. It isn't. That mode is called Casual or even Solo. Epic's are party quests, but even then, the Devs actually made them scale, so you can try to Due or run with Panthers and Hirelings, which -- I think, is a very nice option, and under those circumstances you might not even see Hard to Kill.

Do you read? Like seriously, do you read?

I am not complaining about solo-ing. I'm complaining that this will make me want to do nothing BUT freaking solo on my PM AND FvS.
I have ZERO interest in playing a healbot in epic hard/elite and that's what I am left with.

And I will make it even clearer for you. Groups do NOT like BB. They whine like children "stand still wah wah... you should just heal wah wah".

My concerns are that epic hard/elite are GROUP play, I want to GROUP play but I don't want to GROUP play the way these developers want to force me to GROUP play.

I don't want my wizard just spamming CCs or pretending she's a sorcerer with lame damage and even lamer SP (I already am forced to put up with that half my leveling!). I don't want my FvS being nothing but a healbot. As it is she barely gets to have much fun except for an implosion or two on the way to boss and a dot while at boss... when it comes to raids. I put up with MOSTLY healing in raids because they're... raids. High complex difficult things with potentially 10 non-self-healing little nutterz. And I want the lootz.
But if I have the choices:
1. Group in epic hard/elite and play heal bot
2. Solo on epic casual/normal
3. TR out of being a divine
Number one is NOT ever going to be the solution I go for.

So the problem I have is that these changes don't make my toons weaker. They either make them less fun in GROUPS while way fun SOLO... or they remove core abilities from them (abilities we are forced to take feats for on a PM no less!)... in group but I can still have them SOLO.

I will SOLO as a result.

Zinruko
06-08-2012, 02:10 PM
I dunno, but if I were the OP... I would feel pretty mad right about now.

deahamlet
06-08-2012, 02:15 PM
I must have failed somewhere if I don't sound mad :P

Ape_Man
06-08-2012, 02:21 PM
Epic normal is so easy that insta-killing is a waste of SP.

Superspeed_Hi5
06-08-2012, 02:25 PM
As a monk player who also has a PM and a evoker FVS I can say that I have never had the experiences that you have had. While on my monk I have never heard anyone complain about the blade barriers or any other dots. Most melees I know will run through the ice storm/FW/BB when they see it.

When on my FVS I more often than not I hear people askin why I dont just BB and then I wont have to heal.

Sorry to hear about the crappy groups you run with. Maybe you should consider moving to Ghallandha where people seem reasonable.

Rizzyn
06-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Do you read? Like seriously, do you read?

I am not complaining about solo-ing. I'm complaining that this will make me want to do nothing BUT freaking solo on my PM AND FvS.
I have ZERO interest in playing a healbot in epic hard/elite and that's what I am left with.

And I will make it even clearer for you. Groups do NOT like BB. They whine like children "stand still wah wah... you should just heal wah wah".

My concerns are that epic hard/elite are GROUP play, I want to GROUP play but I don't want to GROUP play the way these developers want to force me to GROUP play.

I don't want my wizard just spamming CCs or pretending she's a sorcerer with lame damage and even lamer SP (I already am forced to put up with that half my leveling!). I don't want my FvS being nothing but a healbot. As it is she barely gets to have much fun except for an implosion or two on the way to boss and a dot while at boss... when it comes to raids. I put up with MOSTLY healing in raids because they're... raids. High complex difficult things with potentially 10 non-self-healing little nutterz. And I want the lootz.
But if I have the choices:
1. Group in epic hard/elite and play heal bot
2. Solo on epic casual/normal
3. TR out of being a divine
Number one is NOT ever going to be the solution I go for.

So the problem I have is that these changes don't make my toons weaker. They either make them less fun in GROUPS while way fun SOLO... or they remove core abilities from them (abilities we are forced to take feats for on a PM no less!)... in group but I can still have them SOLO.

I will SOLO as a result.

I was no accusing you of being a soloist, I was stating that a lot of the kerfuffle seems to stem from that concern.

My experience has not been yours. I've never been a group that told me to stop laying down a Blade Barrier, no more Circles of Death, you're only supposed to heal. That has never happened to me, on live or in the Beta. And Hard to Kill as previously mentioned, IF it ever goes live, is very avoidable. I did fine on my Favored Soul, but I do usually run with a second. I did fine on my Rogue. I did see other Pale Masters running, and were glad they were present, both for crowd control and for their kills, yes I saw that they had to lay a certain amount of groundwork, and expend spell point resources -- with access to ample pots, I do agree -- but I felt he or she was an important part of the party, no a CCbot or otherwise.

rdasca
06-08-2012, 03:10 PM
deahamlet +1000

I have already stated, in other threads, my FvS will not be pugging anymore not only in epics but at all, I am not going to run someones toons through a shroud or whatever, only to be a "heal-bot" in higher level epics later. The only time I plan on not soloing is when my guild run needs a divine for a raid.

As for my PM, I TRed her into an ArchMage when every epic had epic DW, and then back to a PM when they took that out and nerfed holds, not doing it again, want a "buff-bot" to bad, drink a pot or use a clicky, I am done with running her in pugs as well.

I do not like playing melee, the only two I have ever gotten to 20 are my AA (which I sometimes like, he makes a good scroll/seal farmer) and the barb I forced myself to play to 20 for the pass life feat, I do not care for a monk's play style, and no thank you you can keep your cleric, and I loath sorcs, so thanks Turbine for taking another chunk of my fun out of my playstyle.

Hell, I hope druids are a blast at end-game because right now, I am pretty much locked out of end-game on the toons I want to play it on.

Ungood
06-08-2012, 03:14 PM
I will SOLO as a result.

Then that is what you will do.

I do not mean to sound dismissive, but, such is life and change. Some people will not like it, some people will, Life will go on.

As a point of Reference, to understand where I am coming from, my Namesake on Orien is a Second Life PM, and I am amazingly apathetic about these changes. In fact, After the changes to spell pass, which I was openly outraged about, I have opted to take a very laid back approach to this. We will see.

I do not feel that this change is "Doom" worthy imho. We will see.

Maybe I'll actually be inspired to dust off my PM, I have been feeling amazingly lack luster about playing an Arcane as of late.

MsEricka
06-08-2012, 05:45 PM
It does not make me optimistic that they're going to change.

And yet that's what a beta is all about, constructive feedback which causes change.

Which if you haven't noticed has already happened. And it happened in the closed beta too.

Get over yourself.

junta74
06-08-2012, 09:10 PM
To the original poster, you have a right to feel any way you want. We spend months (days for some of you) playing and gearing our toons to playstyles that we find effective and fun. We squeeze every last increase into each and every spell, ability, or skill so we can enjoy it even more. What's the max number of times that you've run the same quest hoping for a specific piece of loot and felt ecstatic when you finally landed it.

When something comes along and changes the toons entire outlook, you have a right to be pi...upset. The devs should realize the backlash is coming and everyone has a right on these forums to express their ideas about specific changes.

The other side of the coin is how someone can like the change. They also have that right of free expression on these boards.

What causes the friction is handling it the way some are. Voice your opinion on the change. Don't attack anyone's playstyle because it is a very personal thing for some. Keep the discussion to the matter at hand and everyone will be happier.

For the record, I don't have a FS or PM. The change doesn't effect me. The current system seems a bit broken (compared to PnP) and I don't know if this is the change that will fix it. I do think that anyone that spect their toon for death spells deserves a free reincarnation.

Just my 2cp.

scoobmx
06-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Well, dea, there is ONE more thing you could do. You could be like me and become a melee divine. But I figure you might've discounted that idea already, so, eh...

anto_capone
06-08-2012, 11:52 PM
And so it begins, that my enthusiasm slowly turns to dread.

Disheartening. :(