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psi0nix
05-28-2012, 08:52 PM
Could we look at this for the future ?

Alot of other games now have clients that run (natively) in linux, no need for WINE or other EMU type software.

Heroes of newearth is one very good example.

I get tired of having to reboot to windows just to play this game. I 'can' and do run it using WINE and Pylotro but the bugs are savage, and of course DX9 max.

My i7 and GTX 580's can definitely do alot better than DX9 :)

Is this really such a hard thing to do ? - or is it just not a priority as linux is the black sheep of the OS family. ?

An excuse I see often is that releasing a game on linux means that the code is more vulnerable to piracy, but with an MMO .... whats the danger ?

Really "good" games that run natively in linux are few and far between, I am certain that if a native client was created it would get a large following from the *nix community, and be worth the devs time to do it.

AZgreentea
05-28-2012, 09:41 PM
I've never heard of that MMO. Are there any major MMO's that support both Linux and Windows? I'm not counting MAC as Linux in that.

What isnt the danger with an MMO? I can name two F2P MMO's (Ragnarok Online and Silk Road Online) that both suffer from botting. One out of every three players in those games is a computer program either leveling people up or gathering rare items to sell. Maybe its the instanced based system that is preventing me from seeing them, but I am amazed that Turbine does not suffer from the same problem. It really kills not only the ingame economy, but it hurts the playerbase by filling it with cheaters. It turns into the same war that the recording industry has with pirates, where the Devs spend money and time trying to develop safeguards to kill the bots that end up hurting the legitimate public.

I just dont see the benefits being worth both the risk and the development energy.

psi0nix
05-28-2012, 09:57 PM
EVE online has a linux client, A tale in the desert 4, regnum online, PlaneShift, Ryzom, DOFUS, Vendetta Online, the list goes on .....

And botters will have the same opportunity on linux as they do on windows, in fact windows is most likely to have more opportunity as most "programs" are written to work in windows.

The code for connecting to an MMO server is contained in PyLoTRo anyway and it has not caused an outbreak of bots.

There is a massive community out there, which Valve (steam), is jumping onto aswell, that are hungry for "good" games.

In my opinion DDO is far better than all of the above MMO's and would benefit from a larger user base, which could be provided by opening up the game to all kinds of OS, the core of the game doesn't need to change just the front end.

Running things in WINE is painful sometimes and lacks the ability and graphical "niceness" of a native client.

It would be a great option for those of us who will not be running future versions of windows.

I have no doubt that windows 7 will be supported for many years to come but there will be a time when support runs out, and what then ?

Those of us who don't want to fork out hundreds of dollars for a POS operating system are left unable to play ?

Are we currently so few that turbine just doesn't care about us ?

Not "economically viable" ?

AZgreentea
05-29-2012, 06:22 AM
Are we currently so few that turbine just doesn't care about us ?
In a word, yes. Linux users only make up 2-5% of the worlds computer population. Thats less than half of the worlds Mac population. It would actually be twice as profitable to make a Mac client than a Linux client for any game.

Its much easier to develop for the 85%~ish of the worlds computer population that runs some version of Windows. Thats the way the cookie crumbles when you have a board of directors to report to.

yawumpus
05-29-2012, 10:14 AM
In a word, yes. Linux users only make up 2-5% of the worlds computer population.

I'd expect that 2% is a bit optimistic, and suspect that many linux users would stay f2p (low price is one of its big attractions).

There aren't many reasons to develop a linux client:

1. The backend and server programming are all in linux (they should be, something tells me I remember them being in windows for DDO). Of course, even if you supply a linux client to make it easier on the devs (probably called system engineers in turbinespeak) you still have to do far more total testing.

2. You are building an Android client. Hey, its a game for a 2006 desktop, and probably ran on existing desktops then. Writing for linux vs. Android-on-top-of-linux can't be that far of a stretch. Android will be the platform that the big buck social games rake in (although I understand that they are dominated by f2p games), but I don't see how I could play DDO on a tablet.

3. Users understand what it means to have a windows client that has access to your credit card. DDO might see a significant chunk of their users switch to a linux client (the ones who prefer the nd6 damage descriptions), but there isn't much growth there. Expect a blip after gold miners hack a few accounts and try to turn stolen accounts into 100 pet golems on the auction (note that after a recent gold spam, some user claimed the site in question had a keylogger on it. No idea how true that was).

/posted from a mint (KDE) desktop.

psi0nix
05-29-2012, 04:09 PM
Based on 2009 stats (I couldn't find any more recent), 0.83% which equates to a few hundred million users globally.

And even the above is an estimate, linux, well, Unix, does tend to be at the heart of everything.

I just don't know if it would really be that hard, the "core" of the game wouldn't need to change very much at all, I suspect that most of the code would be easily compiled on a *nix OS, there would most likely be some platform specific changes, but how much really ?

Being involved in the linux community does make it seem like there are more of us than what there "really" are, but the story is always the same, where are the "good" games ?

Of course that is subjective, but when you look at the job done with heroes of newearth - it clearly shows that a linux version can and does look and feel exactly the same as the windows version, the graphics are very good, making use of openGL and actually making use of my graphics cards.

Currently running the game through WINE i'm getting about 1/3rd of my pc's performance out of the game.

I'd love one of the devs to comment on this, even just to let us know if this is "difficult" or simply not on the radar due to the lower population of users.

I still have some hope that in the future we will see a client for linux.

And I think that currently the F2P users are actually more profitable due to all the micro-transactions they do, so thats a good thing.

Alot of us don't use linux just because it's "free", we use it because it lets us do what we want, and does as you tell it, not the other way round.

Urist
05-30-2012, 05:26 AM
Pro Linux (aka dreamland):
* Because there are no games for Linux, any big-name that does come to Linux tends to get massive publicity in the tech press, due to the novelty value. The "news" that Steam is coming to Linux made it all over the place - and that has always been just a single rumour from a single source!
* A Linux client isn't implicitly going to expose the software to any more danger from piracy, hacking, etc. than the Windows client currently does.
* The simplest solution would probably be an "official" Wine-wrapped version. This could work for both Linux and Mac. The people at CodeWeavers could help.

Anti Linux (aka realism):
* Lack of market-share for Linux gaming (catch 22).
* The EVE Linux client (RIP) sucked balls, and quickly became strictly inferior to just using Wine. Though personally, I blame Cedega for that.
* DirectX/3D. Without an OpenGL implementation of the graphics engine, native Linux isn't going to get supported.
* Age. DDO, at this stage, is ancient and creaky. Good luck porting that to Linux on-time and under-budget!

The most likely compromise, that I can see, would be for the DDO dev team to occasionally test the game using Wine. I understand that doing so is actually quite a good way of finding edge-cases, and code which isn't written "by the book" (eg. it makes assumptions based on specific driver/API implementations/side-effects), fixing which can also help when updating for newer versions of Windows.

Though now I come to think of it, Wine libraries can actually be used and linked in commercial software (LGPL). So it might be possible to use those as "shims" in a Linux client, whenever Windows system APIs are used.