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View Full Version : Positive Energy Burst - Why do we need to target ourselves?



artistx
05-27-2012, 06:09 AM
I hope I'm not the only one who finds it really annoying to have to target myself for a ability that radiates only from my character... It's even caused a lot of party deaths over the years including my own...

I'm not sure if it's happened to anyone else but there's been plenty of situations where I needed to heal myself and I figure a Burst will do the job and save spell points.... oops didn't target myself..too late... *dies* WHY!?

Is it the same for other classes? do Fighters need to target themselves to use Power Surge?

why not make it like "Positive Energy Aura" that simply works when you press it without any irrational targeting requirements... (it's not like it'll work on someone else if you target them)

As it stands it's very counter intuitive and makes healing more tedious than it already is...

Xezno
05-27-2012, 07:03 AM
/signed

You could make a macro to fix it though.

Zeruell
05-27-2012, 07:17 AM
No guys, see, it's because you totally don't get how to heal, and you need AC, DR, SP, HP, TRs, and skills! (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4399299&postcount=3). :D

(Signed -- this targeting issue is just a superfluous annoyance that we could all do without.)

Urist
05-27-2012, 08:06 AM
IIRC it's a common bug with all self-centred AoE spells (eg. negative energy burst). If the object you have targeted is a valid target for the spell, you will get the "not a valid target" message. >_<
For radiant bursts, a valid target includes those who would be healed, and those who would be harmed. So you can burst away while hard-targeting hobgobs, for example, but undead or friendly NPCs will cause the error.

Tshober
05-27-2012, 05:28 PM
/signed

Not much to add to what the OP said.

Talias006
05-27-2012, 07:33 PM
For what it's worth, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on that older thread, but the Burst isn't technically a spell.
Just ask yourself what you expend when use a Burst.
Turn Undead.

It might be a spell-like ability, but it isn't really a spell, in the sense that it either costs SP or can be found on an item in a clicky form.

I'll amend this post if I find evidence of that tidbit shared in the other thread.

For the record, I'm all for changing the Turn ability to not require a target, that would probably fix the whole problem in one go.

(Nope, can't believe it took me this long to catch that little bit of information. Knowing this, I believe, is crucial to finding a way to get it fixed.
Maybe Bug Report it knowing that it is actually a Turn attempt being used, and should NEVER need to have a hard target for it.)

GrimGus
05-28-2012, 09:33 AM
/signed

Silverwren
05-30-2012, 12:55 PM
For what it's worth, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on that older thread, but the Burst isn't technically a spell.
Just ask yourself what you expend when use a Burst.
Turn Undead.

It might be a spell-like ability, but it isn't really a spell, in the sense that it either costs SP or can be found on an item in a clicky form.

I'm in agreement with this. It's not a spell, so it should behave differently.

Myself, I've just gotten into the habit of hitting ESC after targeting someone in the party, and it's not like you can't see when you have someone targeted. There's a big white circle around them.

The ESC key.

Be not afraid to use it. :D

Miow
05-30-2012, 12:59 PM
I've seen so many of these threads yet it's never been changed as of yet...

/signed fo sure

JOTMON
05-30-2012, 01:04 PM
/agreed,

Would be nice if the Dev's would ackknowledge that this is broken and will be fixed.

Silverwren
05-31-2012, 08:16 AM
/agreed,

Would be nice if the Dev's would ackknowledge that this is broken and will be fixed.

What makes you believe that something is broken here? In my opinion this is working quite well. Just hit the F1 key before you hit #3 on your hotbar, or use the ESC key after you target someone. It's really not that difficult or time consuming, unless you count the time it takes to form the habit.

Phidius
05-31-2012, 08:24 AM
What makes you believe that something is broken here? In my opinion this is working quite well.
...

Probably the fact that it is inconsistent with the 2nd tier Radiant Servant ability that also uses turns and dispenses healing as an AOE, yet can be activated regardless of what you have targetted.

Since the effect is always centered on the cleric, validating the object that the cleric has targetted can only be rationalized as punishment.


... Just hit the F1 key before you hit #3 on your hotbar, or use the ESC key after you target someone. It's really not that difficult or time consuming, unless you count the time it takes to form the habit.

However, I agree with you - getting used to using a workaround is the wise choice when it comes to one of Turbine's punishments. Maintaining expectations of a fix can be draining.

JOTMON
05-31-2012, 09:34 AM
What makes you believe that something is broken here? In my opinion this is working quite well. Just hit the F1 key before you hit #3 on your hotbar, or use the ESC key after you target someone. It's really not that difficult or time consuming, unless you count the time it takes to form the habit.

It is a self only spell it is not a targetable spell, so it should not be affected by targeting.
Pressing other keys to deselect a target is asinine and a unnecessary extra step.
It is like forcing you to target yourself to drink a cure potion.

Also.... Eladrin posted in another thread that this was not WAI.


We'll be making sure that you can use both abilities regardless of targeting. They're PBAOE effects, it shouldn't matter what you have selected. On my local build I've got it working this way.

I should note that my earlier test was done on my local Update 7 build rather than a U5 build, so my tests may not reflect what's currently on live. I'll do some tests there as well.

Robai
05-31-2012, 09:39 AM
It is a self only spell it is not a targetable spell, so it should not be affected by targeting.
Pressing other keys to deselect a target is asinine and a unnecessary extra step.
It is like forcing you to target yourself to drink a cure potion.

Also.... Eladrin posted in another thread that this was not WAI.

Well said, nothing to add.

Silverwren
05-31-2012, 10:55 AM
It is a self only spell it is not a targetable spell, so it should not be affected by targeting.
Pressing other keys to deselect a target is asinine and a unnecessary extra step.
It is like forcing you to target yourself to drink a cure potion.

Also.... Eladrin posted in another thread that this was not WAI.

Seriously? Just how much longer does it take you to press two keys back to back as opposed to one key, regardless of whether it's working as intended or not?

That quote from Eladrin referenced U5. We're at 13 now. Something tells me this is not a high priority item on the to-do list.

Orratti
05-31-2012, 11:06 AM
I believe it was made this way to make it more difficult to heal two groups at once. If it didn't require targeting self you could burst/aura heal the group you were in while holding target on a member of a 2nd group for mass heals. Making it possible to divide your forces safely while still only relying on one healer or one healer at a time. You can still do the same thing the way it is but having to switch targets between self and the other target for mass heals makes it more difficult to reliably keep people alive while divided. I believe that is why there has been no change to it and why you're likely to see no change to it.

[edit] I'm not sure that it isn't truly already working as was intended and we were just told what we wanted to hear. There is no telling what the end result of any "fix" will be but maybe we can look forward to the day a single cleric can heal 2 or more seperated groups of players without difficulty.

Phidius
05-31-2012, 12:35 PM
What makes you believe that something is broken here?...


... Eladrin posted in another thread that this was not WAI.


Seriously?...

Seriously.


...
Just how much longer does it take you to press two keys back to back as opposed to one key, regardless of whether it's working as intended or not?
...

Straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)


...
That quote from Eladrin referenced U5. We're at 13 now. Something tells me this is not a high priority item on the to-do list.

The ladder bug has been around much, much longer and has also been officially recognized. A low priority does not mean it's WAI.

LightBear
06-01-2012, 01:47 AM
Whit-out pulling a "false argument" card. Sadly out of experience I can amend to what the OP said; it takes long enough to cause a party wipe. The healing burst just works counter intuitive and while in the mids of a heavy fight it takes a while to catch up with your intuition to notice what goes wrong. More then half the time (about 80% of the time in my case) I miss the "False target" message.

I started to learn myself to deselect my current target by mouse before I let loose my positive energy burst but I'm going for the F1 from now on as that seems to work just as well?

Autolycus
06-01-2012, 02:07 AM
/signed

This bug is very annoying and has caused more than one death. It is a bug, as confirmed by Eladrin here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3140572&postcount=57). Please fix it.

Silverwren
06-01-2012, 07:52 AM
This bug is very annoying and has caused more than one death. It is a bug, as confirmed by Eladrin here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3140572&postcount=57). Please fix it.

That's the same quote posted by JOTMON dating back to U5. It's not going to get fixed. Put on your big boy pants, stop whining and work around it. I know plenty of clerics who have and are great healers. If it's a problem for you to push two keys instead of one, consider re-rolling your cleric into something easier to handle.

You may now let the hateful neg-rep fly!

Zeruell
06-01-2012, 10:24 AM
That's the same quote posted by JOTMON dating back to U5. It's not going to get fixed. Put on your big boy pants, stop whining and work around it. I know plenty of clerics who have and are great healers. If it's a problem for you to push two keys instead of one, consider re-rolling your cleric into something easier to handle.

Hey guys, you know that "Suggestions & Ideas" forum? Don't use it for suggestions. :rolleyes:

Acknowledged usability issues are issues, and need fixing. Requests for dev attention aren't out of place.

In the meantime, absolutely, implement any workaround that will mitigate the issue -- fortunately this happens to be a simple one.



You may now let the hateful neg-rep fly!
Decency and propriety? ;)

Silverwren
06-01-2012, 11:19 AM
You may now let the hateful neg-rep fly!


Decency and propriety? ;)

Pfft! You just KNOW I'm going to get neg-rep. Besides, that was a separate issue regarding an indecent posting. :eek: I won that battle, btw.

artistx
06-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Just died again due to not targeting myself for the burst(when will i ever learn...) so I thought I'd check out this thread... guess when they say not WAI that doesnt mean they'll fix it anytime soon... but if we're lucky they'll fix it when they add the new enchancement system... along with Radiant Servant 3(a guy can dream can't he?)

Eladiun
06-05-2012, 08:34 AM
/signed yet again

Grace_ana
06-05-2012, 01:24 PM
/signed

This is an incredibly annoying bug.

artistx
09-27-2012, 04:11 AM
The Radiant Servant's Positive Energy Aura and Burst now function regardless of the currently-selected target. Finally!

goodoldxelos
09-27-2012, 06:12 AM
It is quite funny the posts that argue leaving a bug in the game. Always expect the best functionality and professionalism in a game/product never anything less or you'll be given a poor product.

/signed

Miow
09-27-2012, 07:22 AM
read the lamm release notes. yay!