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View Full Version : Use Repair/Heal skills for repair/healing amp



HatsuharuZ
05-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Sorry about my last post, it was late. Let's try this again...

I can say with some certainty that the Heal and Repair skills are fairly useless. There are so many ways for a party healer or anyone who has built for self healing to top off the party's or their own HP. Any class that has either of these as a class skill won't put many points into them when something better presents itself. My wizard, for instance, has so many skill points and so little to use them on I put points into hide and move silently, of all things. I have yet to use the Sneak feat, by the way.

Now, consider the Cleric and Wizard classes.

The cleric has three lines healing spell enhancements that get increasingly expensive as you get to the higher tiers, but these are considered necessary since a large part of what clerics do involves healing themselves and their party members. However, clerics SHOULD be able to do alot more than just stare at their party member's red bars and click healing spells. At end game especially, mobs and red/purple names do enough damage that the healing amplification lines are NECESSARY, as well as most of the cleric's (or Favored Soul's) attention, to keep the party alive.

The Wizard has three lines or repair spell enhancements, although it's rare to see a wizard use the "Repair" spells unless they are warforged wizards and are healing themselves. Most wizards do not want to act as clerics (as far as I can tell), so they aren't going to buy the repair amp spells unless they themselves need the repair spells.

So, why not make use of the otherwise useless skills and let the Repair and Heal skills (all mods, not just ranks taken) and let those scores act as the amount of amplification for Repair and Healing spells?

A) Either let +1 to Repair/Heal = +1 to the amount repaired/healed before the effects of metamagic feats are applied. Also, the repair/healing enhancement lines are not changed.

OR

B) let +1 to Repair/Heal = +1% added to the amount repaired/healed. This stacks additively with metamagic feats. The enhancement lines for repair/healing spells may have to be nerfed and reduced in cost for balance reasons.


In Both proposals 'A' and 'B', let 8 ranks taken in each skill raise the maximum caster level of the associated spells by 1.


I don't think that these proposals will be very groundshaking. Some people would hate the idea of having to put points into skills that were useless before. Making the Heal skill useful in this way won't make it so that clerics/FvSs have to babysit in high-level content, for instance. That would be fixed by a change to AC or monster's to-hit bonuses. Using Heal for healing spell amplification would give divines more flexibility with their enhancements; same thing with wizards, although healing Warforged without penalty is something of a niche role and most wizards would rather nuke, level-drain or CC. It does, however, give casters options. More options are always a good thing.


Note: This change would affect all classes that have Repair or Heal as class skills, not just Clerics and Wizards.

Phidius
05-17-2012, 06:57 PM
It sounds like you haven't quite finished thinking your proposal through. I recommend getting it all fleshed out first, including the changes to the Action Point enhancements, then trying again. Keep in mind that the current form of healing/repairing "amplification" in the enhancements is multiplicative, not additive.

Once you've got a solid grasp on your request, you should then be sure to address what problem you are trying to solve.

Do you think casters don't have enough flexibility in the current system? Are you trying to make those skills worth investing in? Are you trying to offload the responsibility for getting better healing/repairing onto the recipient of the spells instead of the caster?

Wow, that must be some coffee!! I don't know that I agree with your request, but you've done an excellent job putting it together.

+1

HatsuharuZ
05-18-2012, 01:19 AM
Okay, Op changed because I have had my coffee and then I had a better idea.

Thanquil
05-18-2012, 05:02 AM
What about for every 15 points into heal skill or repair gives you 5% repair amp or heal amp :D

42 repair = 10% repair amp

33 heal skill = 10% heal amp

this would not be Over Powered because it still costs points to get your skills high enough and they are minor amps

Dendrix
05-18-2012, 05:44 AM
Allowing your Repair of Heal skills to be translated to RepairAmplification or HealingAmplification would be a great change. Those skills would instantly become useful.

Sidewaysgts86
05-18-2012, 08:06 AM
I posed a similar idea awhile ago, so needless to say- I like the concept. This would greatly improve the desirability of the skill, and would opt people to actually consider taking it. Not that this is the "only" skill that i think should be "improved" a bit for DDO of course- a lot need some love.

That said id worry about how "good" this would be for particular classes that already have a lot given to them on a silver-plate. Its already far too easy imo for particular classes to heal themselves then they were ever meant to, making it even EASIER might not be such a good thing. Maybe a possible solution would be to make it so the healing amp ONLY applies to incoming heals from sources other than yourself, if allowable by the code.

FranOhmsford
05-18-2012, 08:16 AM
What about for every 15 points into heal skill or repair gives you 5% repair amp or heal amp :D

42 repair = 10% repair amp

33 heal skill = 10% heal amp

this would not be Over Powered because it still costs points to get your skills high enough and they are minor amps

This would make it pointless for anyone who didn't have Heal as a class skill to put any points into it - +15 items being available.
And those who did have it as a class skill could just stop at 15 {13 for radiant servant as they have to take Heal I and II enhancements}.


I'd say for every 4 points {actual skill points} spent in Heal/Repair you would gain +5% Heal/Repair amp.

Every +3 of an item would give an additional 3% Heal/Repair amp.

So a 20th Lvl Radiant Servant with a +15 item would have 30% Healing Amp {+2 from Heal enhancements takes you past the 24 needed} from Skill Points and a further 15% from a +15 item.
Making a grand total of 45%.

You could also add a capstone 5% for Radiant Servant.

HatsuharuZ
05-18-2012, 09:52 AM
Umm... looking back, I think I may have worded my post wrong. In my proposal, Heal and Repair aren't supposed to amplify INCOMING repairing/healing, but OUTGOING healing.

Xynot2
05-18-2012, 10:04 AM
Heal and repair skill points determine how much you and those around you get back when you shrine.

I need clearification cuz I cant read a post that long without glazing over so my understanding is that you want

On a cleric it would go:

Repair increases the amount you can heal a WF
Heal increases the amount of heal on everyone else

That about it?

FranOhmsford
05-18-2012, 10:33 AM
Heal and repair skill points determine how much you and those around you get back when you shrine.

I need clearification cuz I cant read a post that long without glazing over so my understanding is that you want

On a cleric it would go:

Repair increases the amount you can heal a WF
Heal increases the amount of heal on everyone else

That about it?

A cleric would not bother with repair unless he was a warforged.

You pretty much have it spot on apart from that.

At the moment both skills are incredibly weak - They just don't make enough of a difference as is.

Phidius
05-18-2012, 10:46 AM
I think any change to the Repair/Heal skills that affect incoming heals/repairs would need to combine with the existing Healing Amp mechanic. Otherwise, it'll simply complicate what should be a simple concept.

Keep in mind that a cleric could easily have a Heal skill of 65.

23 (ranks)
15+ (wisdom)
15 (item)
4 (GH)
6 (exceptional wis skills)
2 (luck)
65.

That would be an additional 65% combined with increasing the Heal spell from a base of 150 to 230 (8 extra levels to take Heal from max 15 to max 23).

Actually, a WF Wizard would get the biggest boost from such a change - cleric's already have no problem getting massive healing from the Heal spell thanks to Empower Healing and existing Healing Amp.

HatsuharuZ
05-18-2012, 01:08 PM
Heal and repair skill points determine how much you and those around you get back when you shrine.

I need clearification cuz I cant read a post that long without glazing over so my understanding is that you want

On a cleric it would go:

Repair increases the amount you can heal a WF
Heal increases the amount of heal on everyone else

That about it?

On a wizard or artificer the Repair skill would increase the amount that your "Repair"-typed spells would heal WF.

On a Cleric or any class that casts healing spells, your Heal skill would increase the amount that your "Healing" spells heal.