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View Full Version : And another "streak" thread...



mobrien316
05-12-2012, 06:10 AM
In my opinion, the bravery bonus streak mechanics discourage people from grouping and make it harder to fill PUG’s. Any LFM posted for Normal is likely to be ignored by anyone with a Hard or Elite streak. Any LFM posted for Hard is likely to be ignored by anyone with an Elite streak. And, with the current mechanic for streak bonuses, it certainly makes sense for those people to ignore those LFM’s. If I have an Elite streak of 5+ going, I will get a bonus of 250% to my XP for the first-time completion of an Elite quest not more than two levels below my character level. If I run that same quest on Normal or Hard before running it on Elite I will never get that high a bonus, even if I run it on Elite later. It's the "never again" part that discourages grouping; a streaker joining a normal group is forever losing the XP bonus they could have gotten by running the quest on Hard or Elite.

This absolutely discourages grouping. If my level 17 wizard with a 150+ Hard streak logs on and the only quest in his level range he sees posted is In the Flesh on Normal, I am not going to hit that LFM if I haven’t run that quest already. Neither is any other level 15-17 with a streak.

I would much prefer if I could hit that LFM on Normal (because I vastly prefer playing as opposed to sitting around waiting) while still being able to get the big XP bonus for running it on Elite at a later time.

Here’s an idea to replace the bravery bonus streak with a mechanic that does not discourage grouping.

First of all, full bonuses go to all party members as long as no character is more than four levels above the normal level of the quest. This will eliminate the lack of access to groups for anyone who is three or four levels above the quest level, causing some groups to fill more quickly.

Character Level = Not more than two levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 50% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 150% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 250% bonus to XP

Character Level = Not more than three levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 40% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 135% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 225% bonus to XP

Character Level = Not more than four levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 30% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 120% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 200% bonus to XP

For example, if a party completed In the Flesh on Hard, the level 17 player, the two level 16 players, and the level 15 player would all receive a 150% bonus to XP, while the level 18 player would receive a 135% bonus, and the level 19 player would receive a 120% bonus.

If anyone thinks it makes things too easy to let in people who are four levels over the quest, they are free to post their LFM’s for only two or three levels over the quest.

The intent here is to remove a mechanic that discourages people from joining a lot of groups, while still keeping the tremendously helpful boost to XP that eases the endless grind for TR’s on their third or greater life. While I don’t agree with the idea that the streak “punishes” players who join groups that break the streak, I can certainly see the reason why a lot of people feel that way. If I do this (join a group running a quest on normal when I haven’t run that quest yet) I am forever forfeiting a huge XP bonus; losing a bonus is not the same as being penalized, but for all intents and purposes the end result is the same. The group killer is the “first time” bonus tied to the streak; if we can do away with that without negatively impacting XP we can make it a lot easier for PUG’s to fill which is only a good thing as far as the continuation of the game is concerned.

Kromize
05-12-2012, 09:31 AM
Something needs changed to promote grouping for quests on normal difficulty again that's for sure.


I think the bravery bonus is an interesting concept, but just lacks solid grounding as to not affect grouping. Not to mention you need either a VIP in your group or some sacrificial person to run it norm and hard so you can get your elite bravery bonus... Which just isn't fair. If I could, I would buy from the DDO store something to allow me to open quests on hard/elite on my first run...


I think the streak is a more interesting concept than the bravery bonus though, as you get more and more xp for going on a streak. However in it's current form it really discourages normal pugging, and probably should be changed.

The question that remains is: How do you change it to work?

Your suggestions is good, but I think it's a bit rough around the edges.


Perhaps a different type of streak could be implemented. One that gives a bonus % of xp for every consecutive run you do within 10-30 minutes of each other. For example:
Run 1 quest, streak is started, current level on 10%
2nd quest, 10% extra xp, streak increased to 20%
3rd quest, 20% awarded, streak increased to and maxxed at 30%

While you can't get bonuses as high as you could with the other system, you can get more bonuses for playing more.

This encourages more playing and less waiting. Which also encouraged more pugging. What do you think?

Xynot2
05-13-2012, 08:27 AM
Something needs changed to promote grouping for quests on normal difficulty again that's for sure.


That's easy- stop joining groups that have *BB* on them.

What people are not realizing about bravery bonuses is that you max out your bonus after 5 runs. EASY to regain you BB. The more people that realize this, the more will be willing to run a casual or normal run. (except the guy that is trying to get 100% elite streak... frikin OCD)

Kromize
05-13-2012, 09:35 PM
That's easy- stop joining groups that have *BB* on them.

What people are not realizing about bravery bonuses is that you max out your bonus after 5 runs. EASY to regain you BB. The more people that realize this, the more will be willing to run a casual or normal run. (except the guy that is trying to get 100% elite streak... frikin OCD)

Yes, but if you're trying to level up quickly as well as play the game, you may not want to end your streak like that, let alone do a new quest which would remove it from the eligibility of a bravery bonus or streak in the future. Furthermore, there aren't many pugs advertising normal difficulty anymore due to the bravery bonus, most of them say "Elite - Need Opener", and then they wait up to 30 minutes waiting for someone to open it for them. While it's obvious they would get more xp by running more quests in the time that they spend waiting, the extra xp is something they feel the need to wait for regardless. And it would be better to change the way the it works, rather than leave it like it is.

Bravery Bonus alone is biased towards VIP's, which is understandable as Turbine just wants more money... Also a bit silly, as many people doing quests for the BB and streak are TR's, and most likely have done them before. Nothing "Brave" about doing something you've already done before... May as well call it "BUY VIP NOW bonus"...

But the Streak bonus is not only bias towards VIPs, but bias towards running quests on normal for your first time. And for people who doesn't want to run the same quest over and over again, it's a bit annoying to be expected to run elite no matter what. There are instances where I have joined a group advertising normal, and some guy that wanted his streak bonus opened elite anyways. I had already done it elite, and hard, and just wanted the normal first time xp bonus, but due to the streak bonus I had to choose between repeating another needless time, or getting viewed as that jack*** who left the group after it had just started the quest.

Basically, the Streak bonus causes too much drama. And a lot of people don't like it, nor do they like the "Bravery Bonus".

sirgog
05-13-2012, 09:53 PM
I have absolutely no trouble getting people to join LFMs for normal runs when I'm doing them.

Most people that actually look beyond the big numbers understand now that doing a hard or normal run of something (and consequently breaking streak) is almost always more XP than waiting around in town for something that fits a streak.

The slowest TR life I've done since U11 was the one where I stubbornly decided to not break streak at all while playing a class that couldn't solo well (Paladin life). The fastest TR lives have involved breaking Elite streak around 15 or so except caster lives (where you can still speedsolo elites).

Airgeadlam
05-14-2012, 07:52 AM
Some well put stuff that I don't fully agree with

First, let me say I do respect the work you've done and your post, but it does not convince me. Once again, we're blaming a feature instead of blaming the players. Legend builds do NOT need a full elite streak from 1 to 20, not even to level up fast. Hero and Champion/adventurer builds do not need it either. As an example, I'm currently leveling a 2nd life toon in a guild TR group. Two of us are 2nd life, others 3rd+ lives. What happens with elite streak? The two of us are running quests without getting any XP. Several of them. Just for fun and "help" the legends. There's so many avaliable XP that you will still miss most of quests. On a first life? I could have reached lvl20 before entering Shroud for the first time.

What if you break the streak? You only have to do other 4 quests (and you have plenty) and then you're set again. What if you lose ONE xp bonus, ONCE? It's not that bad. If the only "In the Flesh" you see is normal, go run it, or post your LFM.

Also, you can get the first time bonus for elite even if you break your streak, so not that bad either. And you can get this with 3 levels above the base level. More bonus with 4 levels above? Hate to say it, but THAT would be an easy button.


Yes, but if you're trying to level up quickly as well as play the game, you may not want to end your streak like that, let alone do a new quest which would remove it from the eligibility of a bravery bonus or streak in the future.

As it has been stated many times, it's faster to break your streak sometimes than stick to it like if there's no tomorrow.


Furthermore, there aren't many pugs advertising normal difficulty anymore due to the bravery bonus, most of them say "Elite - Need Opener", and then they wait up to 30 minutes waiting for someone to open it for them. While it's obvious they would get more xp by running more quests in the time that they spend waiting, the extra xp is something they feel the need to wait for regardless.

Again, blame the people, not the feature. Those kind of people are the same guys who would wait 1 hour for a "healer and tank" for WW in normal way before bravery bonus existed. If they choose to wait, up to them. God himself could descend from the heavens and tell them "By me! Just run the freaking quest on normal! You have avaliable like 200x the xp needed to get to 20!" and they will be there waiting no matter what. You can eliminate the bravery bonus and they would find another thing to wait for. Also, LFMs are free, post your own. I know people joined my hard/normal runs (Thelanis speaking) and Sirgog says it too (in Khyber), so if noone, never, joins your lfm... well, it's weird.


Bravery Bonus alone is biased towards VIP's, which is understandable as Turbine just wants more money... Also a bit silly, as many people doing quests for the BB and streak are TR's, and most likely have done them before. Nothing "Brave" about doing something you've already done before... May as well call it "BUY VIP NOW bonus".

Big lol! Bravery bonus was conceived to lessen the grind on TR people, so they could avoid doing the same quest over and over and over. For TRs. Them. Not first lifers who can get to 20 without noticing. TRs. And you know what TR people get even as ftp? Yep, they can unlock hard on 2nd life, and elite on 3rd+ ones. No need to go all conspiranoic here. What's more, I'm VIP and I wouldn't mind if you have to level first a toon to 20 to unlock elite for all your toons to follow. First lifers do NOT need streak.


But the Streak bonus is not only bias towards VIPs, but bias towards running quests on normal for your first time.

By his very definition, yes. It was a bonus to help TRs lessen the grind and also make hard/elite difficulties desirable AT LEVEL. Normal at level is what you're supposed to run. Before bravery bonus everyone did hard or elite ABOVE level, because there was no penalty. Bravery bonus corrected this a bit.


So, not signed.

McFlay
05-14-2012, 08:53 AM
@OP

What hurts grouping is scaling. Its not that nobody is running normal, its just that its so ridiculously easy to run normal solo with scaling why would I waste even 30 seconds looking for random pugs to fill in?

I don't even have to look for a trapper on normal, since traps in most content scale down to like 3 damage and you can totally ignore them. Don't need a healer, csw pots, class based healing abilities, or parking a hireling are more then sufficient with mobs hitting you for 6 in a level 10 quest. Don't need dps, a naked wizard can punch mobs to death thanks to scaling.

If anything elite streaking is the only reason I have to group. Everyone cries they want an easy button and should be able to solo everything...turbine gives them an easy button, and now everyone cries its hard to fill groups. Well really??? I wonder why...

Chai
05-14-2012, 08:59 AM
I have absolutely no trouble getting people to join LFMs for normal runs when I'm doing them.

Most people that actually look beyond the big numbers understand now that doing a hard or normal run of something (and consequently breaking streak) is almost always more XP than waiting around in town for something that fits a streak.

The slowest TR life I've done since U11 was the one where I stubbornly decided to not break streak at all while playing a class that couldn't solo well (Paladin life). The fastest TR lives have involved breaking Elite streak around 15 or so except caster lives (where you can still speedsolo elites).

This.

Also: Even when I can still speedsolo stuff, I do it in a way that encourages grouping afterward. We just did gianthold this weekend, all on elite first, then took a break, then I logged back on and put together a group for hard and normal runs rotating through all the same quests. We also did lordsmarch part 2 chain elite, and I farmed that on normal and hard with another group I put together.

Chai
05-14-2012, 09:02 AM
If anything elite streaking is the only reason I have to group. Everyone cries they want an easy button and should be able to solo everything...turbine gives them an easy button, and now everyone cries its hard to fill groups. Well really??? I wonder why...

And when the dust clears we realize it was many of the same people who complained the game needed to be solo-able, who also complain that elite streak hurts grouping on other difficulties. When I bring this up from time to time, hilarity ensues. Its not the elite streak that hurts grouping on normal and hard, its dungeon scaling.

gummolo
05-14-2012, 09:26 AM
Why do not let the bravery bonus only to TR character (who effectively need more XP to cap) and make first life character not elegible for it? First lifer can keep hiting those LFMs but now they lose one of the most important incentive to do so --> more normal and hard LFM.

decease
05-14-2012, 10:01 AM
hmm here is my two cent: the streak pause program:
how it work: add a npc to harbor which pause your streak progress, when paused you will no longer receive any further streak or streak bonus exp, you will not losing any streak either.

how to balance: set a one day timer to resume your streak.. also cash shop item to resume it at anytime. (like blood of dragon..etc which may or may not also appear on loot list)

why doing this: first release people from their leash, second help turbine earn some more cash to build this game better =)

Xynot2
05-14-2012, 10:10 AM
Long winded reply shortened.

My point wasn't to berate people who go for BB. The point was to tell the OP, deal with it or start your own group. Personally, I avoid pugs with BB in the comments because, in my experience, the guy running it usually treats the party as if he's doing them a favor by letting them in his group. So I avoid them unless I really need that quest.

Im all about play how you want to. And my remarks were to tell the OP not to try and make everyone play his way. Find people you like playing with and run with them. There are several servers, thousands of players and this guy whines about the ones who like running BB. It's like TV- dont like what's on, change the channel. Cant find anything on, do something else. But dont call the TV station and whine about their programming. You will be the only one.

TrinityTurtle
05-14-2012, 10:45 AM
Just the other side of the coin, you could add a giant normal bonus, with all sorts of extra stuff dropping, and I still dont' want to do it. I was doing elite only long before the bb. It's about doing the quest, getting the favor, and moving on. I don't want to keep doing the same quest over and over and over every toons every life. I want to do it once, get the exp, and move on.

You want to play normal, go for it. Have fun, make some freinds who are in the same place as you are, and go wild. Making a group of freinds among the players generally active at your time is awlays a better way to get thigns going than a pug group, regardless of difficulty.

But I really think it's experience with the game, and teh sheer amount of long term players who know the quests inside and out already that was responsible for the lack of normal and hard players more than the mechanics. Some of the newer players whose eyes are all shiny with the bonus xp not realizing how unecessary it is in a first life may change their habits, but I think a lot of us who want the best shot at a loot drop and to grab our favor and go will still be doing elite only our toons entire career with or without bonus.

Kromize
05-14-2012, 12:35 PM
Big lol! Bravery bonus was conceived to lessen the grind on TR people, so they could avoid doing the same quest over and over and over. For TRs. Them. Not first lifers who can get to 20 without noticing. TRs. And you know what TR people get even as ftp? Yep, they can unlock hard on 2nd life, and elite on 3rd+ ones. No need to go all conspiranoic here. What's more, I'm VIP and I wouldn't mind if you have to level first a toon to 20 to unlock elite for all your toons to follow. First lifers do NOT need streak.


Wait! wait wait wait wait... Wait just a second. Since when can TR's and 2nd TR's open on hard and elite?!

My TR can only open normal? Have I been ripped off? :confused:

This... changes things quite a bit... Now I feel...ignorant... :mad:


Seriously tho, my TR can NOT open on hard, only normal. *** ddo devs?

Airgeadlam
05-14-2012, 03:42 PM
In addition, true reincarnation allows a premium/f2p character to open quests on a higher difficulty - the first true reincarnation allows the character to open quests on Hard difficulty, and second and subsequent true reincarnations allow the character to open quests on Elite (VIPs can, of course, open all quests at Elite on any character).

Quoted from DDOwiki. Well, I will admit, I'm VIP myself so never checked myself, but that's what it says. If not, I stand corrected.

SiliconScout
05-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Wait! wait wait wait wait... Wait just a second. Since when can TR's and 2nd TR's open on hard and elite?!

My TR can only open normal? Have I been ripped off? :confused:

This... changes things quite a bit... Now I feel...ignorant... :mad:


Seriously tho, my TR can NOT open on hard, only normal. *** ddo devs?

I only have the 1 TR right now (he's back to lvl 20) and I could open on Hard for sure and I am premium.

If it's not working for you I would bug report it. I think that showed up in Update 12, maybe 11.

AtomicMew
05-14-2012, 04:16 PM
My point wasn't to berate people who go for BB. The point was to tell the OP, deal with it or start your own group. Personally, I avoid pugs with BB in the comments because, in my experience, the guy running it usually treats the party as if he's doing them a favor by letting them in his group. So I avoid them unless I really need that quest.

Im all about play how you want to. And my remarks were to tell the OP not to try and make everyone play his way. Find people you like playing with and run with them. There are several servers, thousands of players and this guy whines about the ones who like running BB. It's like TV- dont like what's on, change the channel. Cant find anything on, do something else. But dont call the TV station and whine about their programming. You will be the only one.
While nuance is something that people often don't want to think about, you really should make the effort to understand that the OP isn't talking about his situation, but the situation of the player base in general. "Go make your own group" is missing the point.

mobrien316
05-14-2012, 05:07 PM
I understand that the streak was designed to help ease the TR grind. However, from a number of reasonable complaints posted on this board, as well as from my own in-game observations, it seems an unintended consequence of the streak was to make it more difficult for PUG's to fill. I don't believe this is good for the game.


If the first-time bonuses are increased, and the streak done away with, no one would lose out at all. TR's (and everyone else) would still get their XP bonus, but there wouldn't be a mechanic in place that strongly, strongly encourages people to avoid joining groups.

If a person logs on with the intention of doing GH flagging quests, and they see a couple of LFM's up for Normal, they will almost certainly avoid those groups if they have a Hard or Elite streak going. If they join on Normal and they have an elite streak they are going to lose out on the 250% XP bonus for continuing that streak, which strongly encourages them to keep the streak alive.

I think it would be better if a person in that situation could join that normal LFM and actually play, which is better for everyone. More people playing is only good for the game. More people waiting around for groups to fill while other people who want to run the same quest are posting LFM's of their own on another difficulty is not good for the game.

If you are one of the uber elite who doesn't want to slow yourself down by grouping with the unwashed masses who run things other than elite, this won't affect you one bit. You can still solo everything in the game while using zero resources and will still get the same XP. Or you can group with like-minded demigods who don't want to be slowed down by someone who hasn't run the quest a few dozen times previously and might actually not know what to do at a certain point.

If you are someone who likes running quests on Hard, this won't affect you one bit except that it will be easier to fill your groups, because all the people who currently avoid your LFM because they don't want to break their elite streak will now be happy to run the quest on Hard and get a huge XP bonus.

If you are someone who likes running quests on Normal, this won't affect you either, except that you will also find it easier to fill your groups because all the people who are currently avoiding your LFM because they don't want to break their Hard or Elite streak will not be more likely to join your LFM and actually PLAY instead of waiting and waiting and waiting.


So, what's the downside to this again?

Mathermune
05-15-2012, 09:02 AM
My solution. (let's assume that dungeon scaling is off the table for now)

Step 1) Halve streak bonuses (12.5% for max hard, 25% for max elite)
Step 2) Reduce the XP to cap a second life character by 12.5%
Step 3) Reduce the XP to cap a third or more life character by 25%
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Profit

------------

Edit.

I'm leaving it up there for posterity and a reminder not to reply too early.

I think that's actually a bit simplistic. I would still prefer to see a solution with the XP cap being lowered to a certain extent. Maybe not in the way I just suggested now though.

Chai
05-15-2012, 09:20 AM
While nuance is something that people often don't want to think about, you really should make the effort to understand that the OP isn't talking about his situation, but the situation of the player base in general. "Go make your own group" is missing the point.

Its missing no point whatsoever. The literal solution is to become our own advocates for what we want to do, and stop suggesting changing the entire system so that everyone else has to play the way the person making the suggestion wants them to. This involves creating our own groups when none are up for the content + difficulty we want to run.

The OP is saying that theres a mechanic in place that makes people avoid joining groups, however, he is pointing at the wrong mechanic. Dungeon scaling is the mechanic that encourages people to solo more, not bravery bonus.

mobrien316
05-15-2012, 09:27 AM
Its missing no point whatsoever. The literal solution is to become our own advocates for what we want to do, and stop suggesting changing the entire system so that everyone else has to play the way the person making the suggestion wants them to. This involves creating our own groups when none are up for the content + difficulty we want to run.

The OP is saying that theres a mechanic in place that makes people avoid joining groups, however, he is pointing at the wrong mechanic. Dungeon scaling is the mechanic that encourages people to solo more, not bravery bonus.

I think "go make your own group" is missing the point when discussing mechanics of the game itself. The bravery bonus streak and its impact on grouping was being discussed, so unless "make your own group" included the implied suggestion that the person making the group also write their own game code and create DDO II, it is not helpful in the least.


I agree, however, that certain subjects can be best handled by avoiding LFM's that you don't like. If someone posts about not liking LFM's that specify "TR only", they are certainly free to create their own LFM, and it is reasonable for other posters to mention that.

If the game mechanic itself was such that only TR's could see LFM's posted by other TR's, and someone suggested that was limiting grouping and was not good for the game, a suggestion that the poster "go make your own group" would be singularly unhelpful.

Xynot2
05-15-2012, 09:46 AM
While nuance is something that people often don't want to think about, you really should make the effort to understand that the OP isn't talking about his situation, but the situation of the player base in general. "Go make your own group" is missing the point.

No it's not. If you REALLY breakdown the OP, it's a whiny rant about BB.

My response is to say, let them play their way. I'm always perturbed by these kinds of posts. They all say the same thing. And that is, "Waaaa. You aren't playing the way I think you should." And While I do agree that finding a group to do normal is very tough because of BB, It's my choice not to group with a BB pug. I complain to myself about it. I dont come here and rant. Which is what this is... a rant.

That's my opinion. And it sounds caustic because I dont use $50 words to smooth things out. So dont take it as Im mad or being condescending. I'm just blunt.

Chai
05-15-2012, 10:19 AM
I think "go make your own group" is missing the point when discussing mechanics of the game itself. The bravery bonus streak and its impact on grouping was being discussed, so unless "make your own group" included the implied suggestion that the person making the group also write their own game code and create DDO II, it is not helpful in the least.

Sorry, but this is incorrect on more than one front. You want something to be "helpful in the least" - we need to help ourselves, and not expect the code of the game to be changed to fit our playstyle at the expense of everyone elses play style.

First off, becomming our own advocate and making our own groups for the content + difficulty we want to run it on, is the solution.

Second, the bravery bonus is not impacting the way people group. Dungeon scaling is the mechanic that encourages people to solo normal and hard when running those difficulties. You are not even identifying the correct game mechanic.

Third, you are proposing a solution that causes everyone else to have to play the way you want, which is not the correct way to resolve an issue in a game community that has many different people that play many different ways.



I agree, however, that certain subjects can be best handled by avoiding LFM's that you don't like. If someone posts about not liking LFM's that specify "TR only", they are certainly free to create their own LFM, and it is reasonable for other posters to mention that.

If the game mechanic itself was such that only TR's could see LFM's posted by other TR's, and someone suggested that was limiting grouping and was not good for the game, a suggestion that the poster "go make your own group" would be singularly unhelpful.

Becomming our own advocates and making groups for the content we want to run at the difficulty we want to run it on is the solution for just about every grouping issue. Saying it is unhelpful is a euphamism for "I cant be bothered to lead a group, so I suggest changing the code of the entire game to suit my playstyle"

Whats really "not helpful" is suggesting the devs change the code of the entire game to suit the way a few people play, while disregarding the way everyone else plays. Suggesting that people become their own advocate for their own playstyle, is helpful.

Chai
05-15-2012, 10:25 AM
The correct game mechanic isnt even being identified here. Bravery bonus doesnt alter peoples ability to find groups for other difficulties.

Dungeon scaling is what encourages people to solo normal and hard, because its easier to do than running it in a group, especially for the TR XP farmers.

Why complain about BB rather than DS then? Because the newbies cant be used as a scapegoat to get rid of DS. Wait for it - this train is never late folks. Office pool?

mobrien316
05-15-2012, 11:45 AM
The correct game mechanic isnt even being identified here. Bravery bonus doesnt alter peoples ability to find groups for other difficulties.

Dungeon scaling is what encourages people to solo normal and hard, because its easier to do than running it in a group, especially for the TR XP farmers.

Why complain about BB rather than DS then? Because the newbies cant be used as a scapegoat to get rid of DS. Wait for it - this train is never late folks. Office pool?

Dungeon scaling has been present since I began playing DDO. The bravery bonus streak has not.


I noticed that with the implementation of the streak there is a difficulty in filling PUG's that was not present before. Judging from other posts on this board, other people have noticed the same thing. People with streaks to preserve are not hitting LFM's that would disrupt their streak. My suggestion would make it possible for them to hit those LFM's without sacrificing XP, which would lead to more groups filling more quickly.


Please note I am not saying that I want to hit LFM's but I don't so therefore everything should be changed to accommodate my desires. I used myself as an example in my original post because I believe a lot of people are thinking along the same lines, not to suggest that because I don't want to break a streak we should eliminate the streak altogether. I am offering a suggestion that seems to fix what a lot of players consider to be a problem, and the solution I suggest does not negatively affect anyone in the game to any degree whatseover. So responses of "start your own LFM" and "why make everyone play your way" are not only unhelpful and off-topic, but make absolutely no sense in context.


As I mentioned before, my suggestion doesn't affect how anyone else plays, except to make it easier for PUG's to fill. I hardly think that characterizing it as trying to make everyone play the way I want them to is accurate. Mine was a suggestion to help fill PUG's, not a suggested mandate that everyone else in the game play the way I want to play.

Chai
05-15-2012, 12:44 PM
Dungeon scaling has been present since I began playing DDO. The bravery bonus streak has not.


I noticed that with the implementation of the streak there is a difficulty in filling PUG's that was not present before. Judging from other posts on this board, other people have noticed the same thing. People with streaks to preserve are not hitting LFM's that would disrupt their streak. My suggestion would make it possible for them to hit those LFM's without sacrificing XP, which would lead to more groups filling more quickly.


Please note I am not saying that I want to hit LFM's but I don't so therefore everything should be changed to accommodate my desires. I used myself as an example in my original post because I believe a lot of people are thinking along the same lines, not to suggest that because I don't want to break a streak we should eliminate the streak altogether. I am offering a suggestion that seems to fix what a lot of players consider to be a problem, and the solution I suggest does not negatively affect anyone in the game to any degree whatseover. So responses of "start your own LFM" and "why make everyone play your way" are not only unhelpful and off-topic, but make absolutely no sense in context.


As I mentioned before, my suggestion doesn't affect how anyone else plays, except to make it easier for PUG's to fill. I hardly think that characterizing it as trying to make everyone play the way I want them to is accurate. Mine was a suggestion to help fill PUG's, not a suggested mandate that everyone else in the game play the way I want to play.

You ARE identifying the wrong game mechanic. BB does not affect how we used to be able to level. All BB did was create a better situation for those who DO want to challenge themselves to run on the highest difficulty. Everyone who still wants to run on normal or hard can do so.

Q: If there is such a high number of people who are affected by this issue, why then are they not grouping together? The people who want bravery bonus arent having an issue finding groups...

A: After the bravery bonus people all group up and play elite, whats left over is people who want to play hard and normal. Dungeon scaling makes it super easy for these people to SOLO - so it is the mechanic that is causing the issue. If its not, and you say theres a large number of people that want to play normal and hard, why dont they just group up and do it then? BB doesnt affect these people - they are playing on elite. Folks that want to play normal and hard have the ability to solo, really REALLY easily, or put up LFMs, which are a gamble. Without DS they would group more.

Your suggestion WILL affect the way I and many others want to play, because I want to play elite. I shouldnt be penalized for wanting to play the hardest difficulty the game has to offer at level. You are asking for the code in the game to be changed to assist a specific playstyle - those who want to group on normal or hard - which WILL affect how others play - something you are disregarding.

shadowphoton
05-15-2012, 01:18 PM
Or just make your own LFM that is at level and you don't have to worry about what other people are doing or not doing.

mobrien316
05-15-2012, 01:50 PM
You ARE identifying the wrong game mechanic. BB does not affect how we used to be able to level. All BB did was create a better situation for those who DO want to challenge themselves to run on the highest difficulty. Everyone who still wants to run on normal or hard can do so.

Q: If there is such a high number of people who are affected by this issue, why then are they not grouping together? The people who want bravery bonus arent having an issue finding groups...

A: After the bravery bonus people all group up and play elite, whats left over is people who want to play hard and normal. Dungeon scaling makes it super easy for these people to SOLO - so it is the mechanic that is causing the issue. If its not, and you say theres a large number of people that want to play normal and hard, why dont they just group up and do it then? BB doesnt affect these people - they are playing on elite. Folks that want to play normal and hard have the ability to solo, really REALLY easily, or put up LFMs, which are a gamble. Without DS they would group more.

Your suggestion WILL affect the way I and many others want to play, because I want to play elite. I shouldnt be penalized for wanting to play the hardest difficulty the game has to offer at level. You are asking for the code in the game to be changed to assist a specific playstyle - those who want to group on normal or hard - which WILL affect how others play - something you are disregarding.

Please explain how the implementation of my suggestion would affect you?

If you want to play Elite, you still can and still get the same XP you would have gotten if the streak continued.


If you haven't run a quest on elite yet, and you want to play rather than wait, you can join an LFM on Normal and get a nice XP bonus there, and you can run Elite another time and still get the same bonus for a first time completion that you would have gotten if you still had a streak.


The only difference is that everyone would be free to join whatever difficulty they wanted to without losing their XP bonus.

I prefer playing to waiting. I also generally prefer grouping to soloing. If you like to solo, my suggestion won't negatively affect you at all, except to give you more XP for running normal and hard difficulty.

If you prefer waiting to playing, my suggestion doesn't negatively affect you, because you can post an LFM for whatever you want and wait until it fills.

If you prefer playing to waiting, you are free to hit an LFM on normal or hard for a quest you want to run without having to lose the XP bonus.


So... Other than getting more XP and spending more time playing and less time waiting, how does my suggestion affect people?

If a person wants to run the Crucible, and they see an LFM for the Crucible on normal, and they know they are going to be running it on all difficulties at some point for the XP, how is it a bad thing if they hit the LFM now, knowing they won't be losing their XP bonus?

Can you explain how it is better to have a normal LFM for the Crucible posted, with two people in it waiting for it to fill, and also have a hard LFM for the Crucible posted, also with two people in it waiting to fill, and also have an elite LFM for the Crucible posted, also with two people in it waiting for it to fill, as opposed to having all six people join the same LFM for the quest they all want to run, with no one losing any XP bonus at all?

If you solo, this doesn't affect you, except to give you more XP for first time completions. If you only like to run elite, this doesn't negatively affect you, because you get the same bonus you would if you the streak was still in place. If you only run hard, this doesn't negatively affect, because you will still get the same XP bonus while making it easier for people who usually run elite to join your group. If you only want to run normal, this still gives you an XP bonus while making it easier to fill your group because no one will lose their hard or elite bonus by joining your group.

Chai
05-15-2012, 02:11 PM
Please explain how the implementation of my suggestion would affect you?

If you want to play Elite, you still can and still get the same XP you would have gotten if the streak continued.


If you haven't run a quest on elite yet, and you want to play rather than wait, you can join an LFM on Normal and get a nice XP bonus there, and you can run Elite another time and still get the same bonus for a first time completion that you would have gotten if you still had a streak.


The only difference is that everyone would be free to join whatever difficulty they wanted to without losing their XP bonus.

Which changes nothing about encouraging people to group together. Elite is still the best XP bonus, which encourages people to group for elite, and normal and hard stiull have heavy dungeon scaling, which encourages people to solo.


I prefer playing to waiting. I also generally prefer grouping to soloing. If you like to solo, my suggestion won't negatively affect you at all, except to give you more XP for running normal and hard difficulty.

Youll still be waiting, because altering the way BB works to make it a one time bonus will not cause peopel to run hard or normal more in groups. It will cause people to group for elite, and solo normal and hard due to heavy scaling. Given the choice to solo or PUG, most people choose solo in an environment that is dungeon scaling heavy. PUGing is more of a gamble.


If you prefer waiting to playing, my suggestion doesn't negatively affect you, because you can post an LFM for whatever you want and wait until it fills.

If you prefer playing to waiting, you are free to hit an LFM on normal or hard for a quest you want to run without having to lose the XP bonus.

The statement that there are less LFMs due to BB is a myth. There are less LFMs because those who want to run elite are doing so, and those who want to run normal or hard are not putting their LFMs up like they need to be in order to advocate their own playstyle. Ive never seen an issue getting a group together for any difficulty.


So... Other than getting more XP and spending more time playing and less time waiting, how does my suggestion affect people?

If a person wants to run the Crucible, and they see an LFM for the Crucible on normal, and they know they are going to be running it on all difficulties at some point for the XP, how is it a bad thing if they hit the LFM now, knowing they won't be losing their XP bonus?

Yay, you picked the one quest that is easier in a group on normal than soloing, and only because dungeon scaling doesnt affect how easy it is to pull levers. This can still be more easily done solo if the player knows how to do the levers or has store hirelings, or artificer pet + hireling etc. All other quests save raids are easier to solo due to dungeon scaling on N or H (the real mechanic that causes people not to group for N or H)


Can you explain how it is better to have a normal LFM for the Crucible posted, with two people in it waiting for it to fill, and also have a hard LFM for the Crucible posted, also with two people in it waiting to fill, and also have an elite LFM for the Crucible posted, also with two people in it waiting for it to fill, as opposed to having all six people join the same LFM for the quest they all want to run, with no one losing any XP bonus at all?

I just did this on my TR this weekend. After the elite run, myself and one other person stuck around and put up an LFM for hard + normal. In the time it took me to run out there, I had 4 players hit the LFM.


If you solo, this doesn't affect you, except to give you more XP for first time completions. If you only like to run elite, this doesn't negatively affect you, because you get the same bonus you would if you the streak was still in place. If you only run hard, this doesn't negatively affect, because you will still get the same XP bonus while making it easier for people who usually run elite to join your group. If you only want to run normal, this still gives you an XP bonus while making it easier to fill your group because no one will lose their hard or elite bonus by joining your group.

The way the game is now with BB doesnt negatively impact anyone who is willing to be their own advocate and make an LFM, which allows them to choose the quest, as well as the difficulty, and playstyle (zerging or not etc).

Once all the elite streakers are in groups, the only reason why normal and hard players are not grouping much is dungeon scaling. Bravery bonus has nothing to do with it. If you take away DS, it is now easier to group than it is to solo, and people start making more LFMs for those difficulties.

AtomicMew
05-15-2012, 02:44 PM
No it's not. If you REALLY breakdown the OP, it's a whiny rant about BB.

My response is to say, let them play their way. I'm always perturbed by these kinds of posts. They all say the same thing. And that is, "Waaaa. You aren't playing the way I think you should." And While I do agree that finding a group to do normal is very tough because of BB, It's my choice not to group with a BB pug. I complain to myself about it. I dont come here and rant. Which is what this is... a rant.

That's my opinion. And it sounds caustic because I dont use $50 words to smooth things out. So dont take it as Im mad or being condescending. I'm just blunt.
Although I'm not surprised. When someone's mind is already made up, it's really hard to get them to go back and re-read. All I can say is you're still misunderstanding, but it's still disheartening. Rise above your surface understanding and really put in some effort... start from the beginning and think things through logically with no pre-conceptions. Trust me, it's really rewarding when you finally have that "ah ha!" epiphany moment, even if it's just for something simple like a DDO forum thread.

Of course it's a rant about BB. It's a rant about the mechanic and how it negatively affects the playerbase. On a side note, I have a BB streak of nearly 500 or so over the past ~12 million XP... and I still think BB is a bad idea because it reduces the pool of players I can group with. Can you see how "just make your own group" is an irrelevant suggestion to me? Because I already do make my own groups.

Chai
05-15-2012, 03:02 PM
Although I'm not surprised. When someone's mind is already made up, it's really hard to get them to go back and re-read. All I can say is you're still misunderstanding, but it's still disheartening. Rise above your surface understanding and really put in some effort... start from the beginning and think things through logically with no pre-conceptions. Trust me, it's really rewarding when you finally have that "ah ha!" epiphany moment, even if it's just for something simple like a DDO forum thread.

Of course it's a rant about BB. It's a rant about the mechanic and how it negatively affects the playerbase. On a side note, I have a BB streak of nearly 500 or so over the past ~12 million XP... and I still think BB is a bad idea because it reduces the pool of players I can group with. Can you see how "just make your own group" is an irrelevant suggestion to me? Because I already do make my own groups.

These kinds of accusations of lack of understanding and inside the box thinking are made often on these forums when peple disagree, but they really dont prove anything other than the fact that forumites will continue to make said accusations rather than actually state their point.

The PUG pool consists of people who want to play N, H, and E.

Q: After all the people want to play E are out of the PUG pool, the only people left are those who want to play N and H. Please explain why they dont just group up then.

A: Bravery bonus has nothing to do with it. Dungeon scaling is the reason they dont group, because its easier to solo N and H than it is to PUG N and H.

If you feel im incorrect, please refrain from posting accusations of lack of understanding and actually post WHY, after all the people who want to play E are grouped, its harder for N and H players to group together.

mobrien316
05-15-2012, 03:28 PM
If you feel im incorrect, please refrain from posting accusations of lack of understanding and actually post WHY, after all the people who want to play E are grouped, its harder for N and H players to group together.

You seem to be suggesting that anyone who runs elite or who currently possesses an elite streak will ONLY run elite and therefore there is no reason or cause to make it easier for them to join other groups. I disagree, and my experience in the game has been that a large number of people run quests on various difficulties, such as E/E/E/H/N. I believe that there are a number of players with elite streaks that also plan on running the same quests on hard and/or normal for the extra XP. I also believe there are players with hard streaks that plan to run the same quests on normal for the extra XP.

If you only run each quest in the game once on elite, that's nice. This suggestion won't affect you in the least, so I don't really understand why you are so against it. This suggestion will make it easier for some players (not ALL, but some) to fill groups by not removing their XP bonus for avoiding groups that don't keep their streak alive. No one would lose out on any XP, and no one would have to group with anyone they don't want to group with or run any difficulties they don't want to run.


For all the players that either plan to run quests on various difficulties for the extra XP, or for those who don't mind running a quest if they see the LFM, implementation of my suggestion would remove the reason for them to avoid joining those groups.

If groups fill faster and more players spend more time playing instead of waiting, I don't see that as anything but positive for the game. And since no one would lose any XP by doing that, I really don't see that as anything but positive for the game.

AtomicMew
05-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Chai: The player base is divided not just by people who want to do BB and those who don't, but by those who've already done BB for a quest and those who haven't. You're really misunderstanding the situation on such a basic level, I'm not quite sure how to respond. That, with the attitude that you are never wrong, and your failure to dialogue in good faith, really makes for a very special juxtaposition.

Your argument is also just an opinion, which you provide absolutely no support for, stated as fact: "BB has nothing to do with it." Then my argument is "BB has something to do with it." Of course, your argument, which again is an opinion stated as fact, is incorrect, and obviously so to anyone who has ever put up a LFM. Otherwise one would never receive the all so frequent tells asking whether BB is being done first or not. Even if you can't bring yourself to admit this case on the forums, you can probably see that this happens all the time. (Ergo, BB has something to do with it.) Some people believe that their ego is bigger and more important than what is true or false.

Chai
05-15-2012, 04:42 PM
Chai: The player base is divided not just by people who want to do BB and those who don't, but by those who've already done BB for a quest and those who haven't. You're really misunderstanding the situation on such a basic level, I'm not quite sure how to respond. That, with the attitude that you are never wrong, and your failure to dialogue in good faith, really makes for a very special juxtaposition.

Your argument is also just an opinion, which you provide absolutely no support for, stated as fact: "BB has nothing to do with it." Then my argument is "BB has something to do with it." Of course, your argument, which again is an opinion stated as fact, is incorrect, and obviously so to anyone who has ever put up a LFM. Otherwise one would never receive the all so frequent tells asking whether BB is being done first or not. Even if you can't bring yourself to admit this case on the forums, you can probably see that this happens all the time. (Ergo, BB has something to do with it.) Some people believe that their ego is bigger and more important than what is true or false.

My argument is not just opinion. I asked a specific question, and you know what the answer to that question is, but will not answer it, because the answer doesnt involve opinion at all, and does not support your claim that BB somehow ruined grouping. The question again is:

Q: After all the people want to play E are out of the PUG pool, due to being grouped up for bravery runs, the only people left are those who want to play N and H. Please explain why they dont just group up then.

You realize bravery bonus doesnt have anything to do with it at that point, so you glossed over that question completely. Dungeon scaling is the reason, because it is the game mechanic that makes it super easy for people to play through N and H runs solo, which is far easier to do than grouping for those same situations. Lack of agreement =/= lack of support for the point I am making. Now please stop glossing over the question, and answer it sans posting accusations of lack of understanding or lack of support for point made.

Chai
05-15-2012, 04:44 PM
You seem to be suggesting that anyone who runs elite or who currently possesses an elite streak will ONLY run elite and therefore there is no reason or cause to make it easier for them to join other groups. I disagree, and my experience in the game has been that a large number of people run quests on various difficulties, such as E/E/E/H/N. I believe that there are a number of players with elite streaks that also plan on running the same quests on hard and/or normal for the extra XP. I also believe there are players with hard streaks that plan to run the same quests on normal for the extra XP.

If you only run each quest in the game once on elite, that's nice. This suggestion won't affect you in the least, so I don't really understand why you are so against it. This suggestion will make it easier for some players (not ALL, but some) to fill groups by not removing their XP bonus for avoiding groups that don't keep their streak alive. No one would lose out on any XP, and no one would have to group with anyone they don't want to group with or run any difficulties they don't want to run.


For all the players that either plan to run quests on various difficulties for the extra XP, or for those who don't mind running a quest if they see the LFM, implementation of my suggestion would remove the reason for them to avoid joining those groups.

If groups fill faster and more players spend more time playing instead of waiting, I don't see that as anything but positive for the game. And since no one would lose any XP by doing that, I really don't see that as anything but positive for the game.

Please do not suggest to the devs that they need to alter the code of the game and make broad claims that this doesnt affect players, because I wouldnt be posting here right now if it didnt affect me. You see it as only being positive because it helps your playstyle, but you are disregarding everyone who has spoken out against it and making broad statements that it doesnt affect anyone else. Trying to speak for everyone on the forums implying that they share your opinion due to some unproven blanket statement often gets called out as what it is.

Avoiding groups that dont keep their streak alive? Players avoid those groups because its easier for them to plow that content on normal solo due to heavy scaling. Saying your suggestion wouldnt impact anyone has two faces, because it isnt going to automagically cause people to start grouping, because again, you are blaming the wrong game mechanic for the fact that people dont run groups for N and H to begin with.

Maitland
05-15-2012, 04:59 PM
for what it is worth..

I am on team Chai..+1 man,I agree with everything you posted.

Enoach
05-15-2012, 05:30 PM
First I just want to say it tickles me so much how people are so afraid of losing bonuses...

Now with that being said: Bravery Bonus - Why is grouping of Normal and Hard difficulties appear to be dwindling?

Possible Answers

Once and Done <- Reading forums alone will point you to many quests people only ever want to do once. If they are going to do it once they are going to do it on Elite and get all the Favor and never look back. Changing Streak so that it does not break if not run on Elite/Hard first time will not change this groups thinking for these quests because they were running it on elite before Bravery Bonus
Everyone is doing it <- If your friends jumped off a bridge would you follow? also known as the lemming syndrome, yes they have a name for it. Only way to change this is for popular culture to shift gears - of course we may not like where that takes us.
Challenge <- Like making stuff harder, because they can take it, or are geared for it - XP is a secondary driving point and is seen more as the result than the goal
The false notion that Elite/Hard Streaking is faster than the 7n/1h/1e method on high xp/min quests.


What bravery bonus did was open up more options for the XP journey. How it is being used is the problem. There are over 200 quests and you can only benefit up to 5 on the streak, gaining a progressive bonus with each completions.

Based on the above reasons any suggested change would need to meet the needs of that mentality/philosophy to produce a change in the grouping. The best suggestion would be for more people that want to run quests on difficulties other then Elite need to produce more LFMs. This alone will change the culture on a server as more and more people will begin to get the idea that Normal is Okay.

Yes you lose XP potential by breaking the streak, but are trading it for a better XP/min ratio and are continuing to move forward. It is up to you which is more valuable.

I have also forced myself to Elite Streak only, personally I found it to be tedious at best and have opted not to worry about it ever again. I know quest based on what I want to do now, be it a Normal quest or an Elite one. If I lead I'll set the rules.

Chai
05-15-2012, 05:50 PM
The false notion that Elite/Hard Streaking is faster than the 7n/1h/1e method on high xp/min quests.

The best suggestion would be for more people that want to run quests on difficulties other then Elite need to produce more LFMs. This alone will change the culture on a server as more and more people will begin to get the idea that Normal is Okay.

Yes you lose XP potential by breaking the streak, but are trading it for a better XP/min ratio and are continuing to move forward. It is up to you which is more valuable.

This.

People continue to deny it, but if it takes a long time to run a quest on elite, and it takes a small amount of time to run on normal or hard, running it on the lesser difficulty is better XP/min.

This enforces what you stated above - more people that want to run quests on difficulties other then Elite need to produce more LFMs. This WILL change the culture, but people have to do it, rather than coming to the forum and complaining about the CURRENT state of affairs and not being able to be bothered to create groups when there should just be groups to join already.

Xynot2
05-15-2012, 05:55 PM
All I can say is you're still misunderstanding,


Taking it personally by what you experience is rather obtuse. I get it that he is suggesting something that might, maybe, possibly change things if, maybe, possibly Turbine takes their mind of the expansion long enough to fix Eberron. His complaint was not enough people willing to do non-BB pugs and yours is not enough people doing BB pugs. My solution, and this is just for me, is that if I cant find a group for one toon, I have 14 toon slots. I can play a different one. So No... I think I got it. I think you need to reread it. So here it is-


In my opinion, the bravery bonus streak mechanics discourage people from grouping and make it harder to fill PUG’s. Any LFM posted for Normal is likely to be ignored by anyone with a Hard or Elite streak. Any LFM posted for Hard is likely to be ignored by anyone with an Elite streak. And, with the current mechanic for streak bonuses, it certainly makes sense for those people to ignore those LFM’s. If I have an Elite streak of 5+ going, I will get a bonus of 250% to my XP for the first-time completion of an Elite quest not more than two levels below my character level. If I run that same quest on Normal or Hard before running it on Elite I will never get that high a bonus, even if I run it on Elite later. It's the "never again" part that discourages grouping; a streaker joining a normal group is forever losing the XP bonus they could have gotten by running the quest on Hard or Elite.

This absolutely discourages grouping. If my level 17 wizard with a 150+ Hard streak logs on and the only quest in his level range he sees posted is In the Flesh on Normal, I am not going to hit that LFM if I haven’t run that quest already. Neither is any other level 15-17 with a streak.

I would much prefer if I could hit that LFM on Normal (because I vastly prefer playing as opposed to sitting around waiting) while still being able to get the big XP bonus for running it on Elite at a later time.

Here’s an idea to replace the bravery bonus streak with a mechanic that does not discourage grouping.

First of all, full bonuses go to all party members as long as no character is more than four levels above the normal level of the quest. This will eliminate the lack of access to groups for anyone who is three or four levels above the quest level, causing some groups to fill more quickly.

{mechanic removed to shorten post}

If anyone thinks it makes things too easy to let in people who are four levels over the quest, they are free to post their LFM’s for only two or three levels over the quest.

The intent here is to remove a mechanic that discourages people from joining a lot of groups, while still keeping the tremendously helpful boost to XP that eases the endless grind for TR’s on their third or greater life. While I don’t agree with the idea that the streak “punishes” players who join groups that break the streak, I can certainly see the reason why a lot of people feel that way. If I do this (join a group running a quest on normal when I haven’t run that quest yet) I am forever forfeiting a huge XP bonus; losing a bonus is not the same as being penalized, but for all intents and purposes the end result is the same. The group killer is the “first time” bonus tied to the streak; if we can do away with that without negatively impacting XP we can make it a lot easier for PUG’s to fill which is only a good thing as far as the continuation of the game is concerned.

And Im not mad, angry or even a little miffed. I just come across caustically in print.

AtomicMew
05-15-2012, 06:00 PM
My argument is not just opinion.
The statement "dungeon scale has something to do with it" does not support your opinion, because the converse of your opinion is not incongruous with with this statement.

That is, "BB has something to do with it" is also not incongruous with "dungeon scale has something to do with it." Therefore, you can see how "BB has nothing to do with it" is an unsupported statement.

Xynot2
05-15-2012, 06:04 PM
The statement "dungeon scale has something to do with it" does not support your opinion, because the converse of your opinion is not incongruous with with this statement.

That is, "BB has something to do with it" is also not incongruous with "dungeon scale has something to do with it." Therefore, you can see how "BB has nothing to do with it" is an unsupported statement.

That quote is NOT from the OP so I think you are the one is off track.

AtomicMew
05-15-2012, 08:49 PM
That quote is NOT from the OP so I think you are the one is off track.

Of course, that's because I agree with the OP. But...


Bravery bonus has nothing to do with it.

So, yeah.

Doxmaster
05-16-2012, 04:00 AM
Not a problem for me.

Delssar
05-16-2012, 04:38 AM
Dont want to seem rude in anyway but... why would you bother with normal? Its way to easy and boring (with the exception of very select few quests) and with the bonus theres no extra xp. Unless you're a brand new player to this game I dont see I reason why anyone would run normal ever......

Xynot2
05-16-2012, 06:43 PM
Unless you're a brand new player to this game I dont see I reason why anyone would run normal ever......

Exactly the point. New players wont stay long if they cant get a party going.

I personally dont care. I have enough toons and enough side stuff to keep me very busy so if I cant find a run I want to do with any of my 14 toons, I do something like craft, sort thru loot that I thought I might want (I should be on that show Hoarders) or browse the wiki to see if there's an Item I need that I missed. People play the way they want and Im good with that. Which is why I stated *make your own group*.

But I can see the point of the thread when it comes to turning off new players who cant find a group.

Thanquil
05-16-2012, 06:50 PM
Character Level = Not more than two levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 50% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 150% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 250% bonus to XP

Character Level = Not more than three levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 40% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 135% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 225% bonus to XP

Character Level = Not more than four levels above listed quest level:
First time completing Normal = 30% bonus to XP
First time completing Hard = 120% bonus to XP
First time completing Elite = 200% bonus to XP
.

/not signed

Might just be the worst suggestion I have ever read on these forums. I know that sounded harsh so to make you feel better here is joke :D.

If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

mobrien316
05-16-2012, 07:33 PM
/not signed

Might just be the worst suggestion I have ever read on these forums. I know that sounded harsh so to make you feel better here is joke :D.

If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

Since your join date is four days ago, I'm not offended if this is the worse suggestion you've ever read on the forums.


My dwarf has more time in the can at the Wayward Lobster than that.

Thanquil
05-16-2012, 07:44 PM
Since your join date is four days ago, I'm not offended if this is the worse suggestion you've ever read on the forums.


My dwarf has more time in the can at the Wayward Lobster than that.

you must be a slow reader :(

Speed reading is a very useful skill, but there are some obstacles that stand in the way of speed reading.
Did you know that most people read slowly only because of habit?
A child who is just beginning to learn to read examines each letter, reads each syllable, pronounces each word, follows along a line with his finger, skips back and forth, and ultimately becomes a slow reader for the rest of his life.

so don't feel bad that you are confused by join date meaning I haven't read a lot of posts. Also I believe that join date is wrong sense I've been playing on the Orien and khyber servers for over 4 years now. :o

Thanquil
05-16-2012, 07:48 PM
Since your join date is four days ago, I'm not offended if this is the worse suggestion you've ever read on the forums.


My dwarf has more time in the can at the Wayward Lobster than that.

also sorry can't stop laughing what is it that you do in the wayword lobster that takes you 4 days LOL



You're never too old to learn something stupid.

~Quilny
05-16-2012, 07:51 PM
/not signed

Oliphant
05-17-2012, 12:44 AM
Simple solution would be to tone down the steak bonuses and add an incremental bonus for having a bigger group. Then you can tune which incentive is dominant to encourage grouping, find a balance, etc.

Rickpa
05-17-2012, 04:43 AM
I posted this to a different thread, but I should post it here:

Giving bonus for streaks on hard and elite has totally taken DDO from my favorite addiction into a massive headache. Why? Because it doesn't matter what our group make up is, we MUST do everything on elite, and that often leads to utter fail at the end of 90 minutes in places like Monastery Of The Scorpion. Yeah... that was last night, and I had to immediately go to work after 90 minutes of pure frustration and equipment decimation. If you don't save against the disco balls at first, it doesn't get any better after dying 9 times!

On the bright side, we did new content on Lamannia tonight on normal and hard, and it was thoroughly enjoyable.

Feralthyrtiaq
05-17-2012, 06:16 AM
You don't want to wait on a party? A "Group" is 2 or more.

So, don't.

Learn the quests.

Manage your experience/bank your levels so you can comfortably hit Vale NO SOONER than level 18.

Do Shroud Flagging Quests on Elite. Be patient. It may take a time or two. You may have to solo/duo some of them on casual to learn them.

Once you get the Vale Quests done on Elite, Farm them on Hard/Normal you will be able to gain enough experience even on a 3+ lifer even breaking the streak and doing the quests past Vale at your own pace.

Level 17+ quests on Elite can be very challenging even for geared TRs.

I prefer to solo/duo most quests.

I don't wait. I will find something I am able to do for XP and maintain the Bravery Bonus on my own terms.

I've taken the time to learn the quests by Soloing or Duoing on Normal/Casual before bravery bonuses.

It's just as easy to learn them now on Normal/Casual.

Rely on yourself. Learn to play your own way.

Quit making opinion based suggestions for mine.

Xynot2
05-17-2012, 08:20 AM
You don't want to wait on a party? A "Group" is 2 or more.

So, don't.

Learn the quests.

Manage your experience/bank your levels so you can comfortably hit Vale NO SOONER than level 18.

Do Shroud Flagging Quests on Elite. Be patient. It may take a time or two. You may have to solo/duo some of them on casual to learn them.

Once you get the Vale Quests done on Elite, Farm them on Hard/Normal you will be able to gain enough experience even on a 3+ lifer even breaking the streak and doing the quests past Vale at your own pace.

Level 17+ quests on Elite can be very challenging even for geared TRs.

I prefer to solo/duo most quests.

I don't wait. I will find something I am able to do for XP and maintain the Bravery Bonus on my own terms.

I've taken the time to learn the quests by Soloing or Duoing on Normal/Casual before bravery bonuses.

It's just as easy to learn them now on Normal/Casual.

Rely on yourself. Learn to play your own way.

Quit making opinion based suggestions for mine.

Im with ya but what about newbs?