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DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 08:16 AM
Consistently now my wizard gets fighter loot and my fighter gets wizard loot. It did not used to be this way (ca 2010). Now I see ads for sales on shared bank space (which I already have and is not enough to handle the backwards loot collected by each character). I find this pretty obvious, transparent and rather insulting. (Though perhaps I overestimate the cunning of Turbine staff - Hanlon's razor may apply)

Before it is suggested again, I already have quest rewards set to be class appropriate in the options which does seem to work for the most part - I am talking about chest loot here.

I mean really, what does my wizard need all this armour and swords for? What use does my fighter have for wands and scrolls?

To put it in a light that will make sense to the Turbine beancounters: think about additional bandwith and cpu demands of all those logout/logins to transfer loot between the accounts. Just give class appropiate loot please and tell the sales staff where to stuff it... I'm sure the developers would love to but... marketing versus development - the classic employment struggle of the 21st century.

I am saving my paid and earned store points for good adventure content when my characters are ready for it and I have no problem spending it on that.

edgarallanpoe
05-07-2012, 11:08 AM
not signed...

I actually like getting loot for my other characters and handing it over to them. My monk is pretty well geared up and doesn't really need anything else. While running Shroud yesterday I pulled a RR (Drow) +3 Holy Burst Rapier of Pure Good. That is perfect for my piercing specced, first life, Drow assassin.

I would actually take it one further and make all raid loot BTA instead of BTC...

honkuimushi
05-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Chest loot has always been random. Only the end rewards were shaped by class. But now, if there are any special items in the reward lists, those lists will be random as well.

Most of the time, it's not worth transfering loot unless you have a crafter and/or a hagglebot. Transfer the rare useful item and sell or deconstruct the rest. I always liked getting matial and exotic weapons in chests because they sell for more than any other item of the same level and usually don't weigh all that much.

Now what I would like is the ability to shape the rewards a bit more. If I have a Rogue that uses kukris, he may never get one on his end reward list. My Acrobat would like more staffs, he's not really interested in the rapiers. My Ranger has a Monk splash, I would prefer robes and outfits over light armor and more handwraps. My Warchanter would like to see more medium armor.

These are the things that determine what items you want-- more than just your highest class level. I'd like to be able to customize those lists a little more. But I would prefer to keep chests random.

Vordax
05-07-2012, 11:21 AM
Consistently now my wizard gets fighter loot and my fighter gets wizard loot. It did not used to be this way (ca 2010). Now I see ads for sales on shared bank space (which I already have and is not enough to handle the backwards loot collected by each character). I find this pretty obvious, transparent and rather insulting. (Though perhaps I overestimate the cunning of Turbine staff - Hanlon's razor may apply)

Before it is suggested again, I already have quest rewards set to be class appropriate in the options which does seem to work for the most part - I am talking about chest loot here.

I mean really, what does my wizard need all this armour and swords for? What use does my fighter have for wands and scrolls?

To put it in a light that will make sense to the Turbine beancounters: think about additional bandwith and cpu demands of all those logout/logins to transfer loot between the accounts. Just give class appropiate loot please and tell the sales staff where to stuff it... I'm sure the developers would love to but... marketing versus development - the classic employment struggle of the 21st century.

I am saving my paid and earned store points for good adventure content when my characters are ready for it and I have no problem spending it on that.

/not signed

Loot in chests is random, its not weighted against your class to make you buy the shared bank. When I run eDA on a cleric, I don't want my chances for pulling silver hand wraps to be nil, and the chances for a silver mace to go up.

ThePrincipal
05-07-2012, 11:40 AM
there's an option in the options menu to align rewards based on class. not sure how this works with multiclass, but i tend to get better rewards with this option not selected. but it's there.

THAC0
05-07-2012, 11:58 AM
there's an option in the options menu to align rewards based on class. not sure how this works with multiclass, but i tend to get better rewards with this option not selected. but it's there.

What he said. You best bet to toggle it on if you have it off currently. IF it is currently on and you are getting loot you dont like.... Then the loot gods favor you poorly and give you stuff to sell or deconstruct for your crafting needs.

Or...just ingame mail it since you dont have a shared bank. Chest loot is likely going to stay somewhat random.

Consider youself lucky you dont get items like an underwater breathing docet... ;-) I have one of these laying around still. On this day.. The loot gods had a good laugh at my expense. So careful what you wish for....

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Chest loot has always been random.

That's the thing, it is NOT random AT ALL. It is exactly the opposite classes, consistently. Nor was it always this way. In 2010 my wizard got wizard loot and my fighter got fighter loot with some randomisation. Now it is the opposite, consistently, not random in the least.


/not signed
Loot in chests is random, its not weighted against your class to make you buy the shared bank. When I run eDA on a cleric, I don't want my chances for pulling silver hand wraps to be nil, and the chances for a silver mace to go up.

I think you interpreted my post backwards. What I am suggesting is that your cleric should get cleric loot, not fighter loot.


there's an option in the options menu to align rewards based on class. not sure how this works with multiclass, but i tend to get better rewards with this option not selected. but it's there.

Please read the original post. Here, I'll help:


Before it is suggested again, I already have quest rewards set to be class appropriate in the options which does seem to work for the most part - I am talking about chest loot here.



What he said. You best bet to toggle it on if you have it off currently. IF it is currently on and you are getting loot you dont like.... Then the loot gods favor you poorly and give you stuff to sell or deconstruct for your crafting needs.

Or...just ingame mail it since you dont have a shared bank. Chest loot is likely going to stay somewhat random.

Consider youself lucky you dont get items like an underwater breathing docet... ;-) I have one of these laying around still. On this day.. The loot gods had a good laugh at my expense. So careful what you wish for....

Again, please read the original post (see above). I do have a shared bank and it is inadequate for the excess of non-random opposite class loot. Nor will I buy any more. I want to buy adventures because I like to play the game, not be manipulated into buying something I do not want.

Matuse
05-07-2012, 01:09 PM
Consistently now my wizard gets fighter loot and my fighter gets wizard loot. It did not used to be this way (ca 2010).

This is false. You are having selective memory issues.

People have been complaining about getting loot for "other classes" since launch day. They have never stopped complaining about it since then.

I get loot for all classes. Always have. 90% of everything you loot is garbage anyway; doesn't matter what class it is for. Vendor it, decon it, and stop worrying so much about it.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 01:18 PM
It is that 10% I am concerned about.

I would love it if I got loot for "all classes", but I do not. It would be great if it were random, like it used to be, but it is not.

It is not selective memory, this has been tweaked, there is no doubt in my mind.

Vordax
05-07-2012, 01:54 PM
It is that 10% I am concerned about.

I would love it if I got loot for "all classes", but I do not. It would be great if it were random, like it used to be, but it is not.

It is not selective memory, this has been tweaked, there is no doubt in my mind.

You are wrong. Its random always has been and still is. But you can continue to think that it is skewed, so as to force you to buy the shared bank if you want.

Matuse
05-07-2012, 02:08 PM
It is not selective memory, this has been tweaked, there is no doubt in my mind.

Try this: write down everything you loot (no need for specifics, instead of acid guard full plate of spearblock, just note "Full plate") over the course of 2-300 chests.

Then compare relative numbers.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 02:59 PM
OK, I think I know where you come from Vordax. ;) I will not play troll games with you. Troll to your heart's content. I will call it what it is. Trolling.

---

Matuse, good idea, a paper trail to prove my point. Data is good. Thank you for the suggestion. Normally I would not make a game into work, but to prove a point here it might be worth it.

Why on earth would I make this stuff up? I would not. It is a pain in the ass that I am expected to prove my observations, but fine. I will. Right here on this thread. It will increase my quest times significantly to make such detailed records, but I will.

Vordax
05-07-2012, 03:08 PM
OK, I think I know where you come from Vordax. ;) I will not play troll games with you. Troll to your heart's content. I will call it what it is. Trolling.


No trolling here. You just happen to be wrong in 2 threads that I have been following.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 03:16 PM
It was trolling before you edited out the tinfoil hat comment. I know how these forum games go.


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4440810&postcount=10
Last edited by Vordax; 05-07-2012 at 08:12 PM..

Right now I am looking for the "Ignore User" option in this vBulletin install. Hopefully there is one. (edit: found and done. :))

Prove me wrong. Start recording your chest loot. Post it after I have set the format with my first record entry.

Have you considered that this may be an account specific issue? Huh?

I am not wrong in two threads; you think I am wrong in two threads. Big difference. I am now done replying to you. Permanently.

Vordax
05-07-2012, 03:33 PM
Prove me wrong. Start recording your chest loot. Post it after I have set the format with my first record entry.

Have you considered that this may be an account specific issue? Huh?


Not that you will be able to read this but I will reply anyways.

Account specific issue? Trying to force your account to buy shared bank? So Turbine is targetting DynaBonk specifically, trying to get you to buy the shared bank?

Also if I do post my results you won't see them anyways since you have put me on ignore.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 04:12 PM
Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #1:
+1 Handwraps, Jade Ring, 170 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Water Essences

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 04:23 PM
Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #2:
+1 Acid Touch Battleaxe, Potion of Fox's Cunning, 120 Gold Pieces, Greater Air Essence, Heroic Deeds

Interesting aside:
Summoned Hell Hound were healed by you for 11,000 points.
That's one heck of a lvl 4 hireling cleric! :O

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #3:
Helm of Intimidation +3, 211 Gold Pieces

Memnir
05-07-2012, 04:30 PM
Random loot is awesome, and keeps the game interesting.
Plus, class-based loot is what end rewards are for.

Also, crunch for crafting if nothing else.


/so not signed

SableShadow
05-07-2012, 04:31 PM
Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #1:
+1 Handwraps, Jade Ring, 170 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Water Essences


Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #2:
+1 Acid Touch Battleaxe, Potion of Fox's Cunning, 120 Gold Pieces, Greater Air Essence, Heroic Deeds

Interesting aside:
Summoned Hell Hound were healed by you for 11,000 points.
That's one heck of a lvl 4 hireling cleric! :O


Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #3:
Helm of Intimidation +3, 211 Gold Pieces

Whacky idea: wait until you've got lots of chests, then post aggregate results.

Feather_of_Sun
05-07-2012, 04:39 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Yan_PL
05-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Random Loot encourages teamplay/friends in groups. Looting everything by yourself without ever sharing with anyone is suboptimal.

countfitz
05-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Totally.

They have the system set up, so relatively less coding, just apply it to chests as well as end rewards, and keep the option to turn it on or off for those of us multiclassers/inventive players.

Now, do we extend this to Raid chests? I would say no. Too many issues with that.

Failedlegend
05-07-2012, 05:01 PM
When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

...or you could break them down for essences you can make some wicked effects with cannith crafting even when you've only got a few levels.

Anyways I'm with FoS it would be a really bad idea to have drops be class based because way too many multi-class builds (and even some single-class builds) don't adhere to what their primary class is "supposed" to be...My two favorite Characters are a Wizard12/Fighter6/Rogue2 Tank and a Monk12/Fighter7/Arty1....I'd hate to never get D-Axes, Light Armor or other melee goodies on the former and the latter needs Bows and the like not Handwraps, Kamas or Shurikens.

karl_k0ch
05-07-2012, 05:05 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

I am happy to award to you the title of Special Cultural Ambassador on behalf of the Committee of Transsexual Warforged and Halflings who Like Mauve on Sunday Afternoons, and Plaid on any Other Given Time, as well as of the Action Group for Accepting Plaid as a Color.

blametroi
05-07-2012, 05:14 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Ok, so you're the guy I need to talk to about what some us call toon luck? :)

More seriously, pure random is the way to go and I'm glad to hear there's no plans to change this.

Samir_Bennal
05-07-2012, 05:41 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Could you at least make them more level appropriate. Why am I pulling +1 resistance cloak from a level 20 quest?

Antheal
05-07-2012, 05:44 PM
Give us a checkbox option to "only take class-appropriate loot from chests" or something, please?

THAC0
05-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Thanks for the reply Feather... Um so why the pink Docets? ;-). Maybe something a little less flamboyant? I mean it looks good om my female WF...but...the gang gives me a hard time when my male WF wears the same item.... From The Mindsunder reward. Docet of Battle.

;-)

Glad to hear you got this under control and clearing this up before it gets out of hand.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 07:07 PM
Random loot is awesome, and keeps the game interesting.
Plus, class-based loot is what end rewards are for.

Loot is NOT random. That is the whole point.


Whacky idea: wait until you've got lots of chests, then post aggregate results.

I will post my data as I see fit, thanks.



It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.


(emphasis added)

I'm telling you, it is NOT random (it was back in 2010 however). I will prove that it is no longer random, something has broken it. Check the work of others then. Team development is a challenge to put it politely. Thanks for your reply, and I kindly request that you take a good hard look at this, QA it to death, test with low level characters, test on multiple servers... etc. It is not random at all from my observations.


We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Fine, I can accept that, I do still request that you do your best to restore the previous random loot behaviour. To repeat myself one more time just to be sure: chest loot is not currently random.

Of course I have been selling and crafting these items a great deal, it is just a major burn that when the big items do come up they are consistently all fighter loot now.

Check the work of others. Review your version control system for changes made since late 2010. Something has changed this behaviour, and I trust your word, so this must have been unintentional.

I will post more data as I acquire it.

Ganolyn
05-07-2012, 07:19 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.


Really? Then what is this all about? It is checked by default and has to be disabled by the player. I realize that a lot of end loot (especially quest chains) has set choices to fill the list with, but there are many that are completely random, no?

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx93/Corbomite/ScreenShot00000-1.jpg

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 07:29 PM
It occurs to me that I did not play with a hireling cleric back in 2010 where I do now, there is a possibility that this could be the reason for the difference in the loot behaviour that I observe. I would review the code in areas where hirelings might affect it.

DynaBonk
05-07-2012, 07:31 PM
Really? Then what is this all about? It is checked by default and has to be disabled by the player. I realize that a lot of end loot (especially quest chains) has set choices to fill the list with, but there are many that are completely random, no?

Hi Ganolyn. ;) Thought you were gone, glad to see you're not! :)

We're discussing chest loot here - completely separate from quest rewards, which is what the option you mention affects. It does not affect chest loot from my observations and I believe that is the intended behaviour.

Ganolyn
05-07-2012, 07:35 PM
Hi Ganolyn. ;) Thought you were gone, glad to see you're not! :)

We're discussing chest loot here - completely separate from quest rewards, which is what the option you mention affects. It does not affect chest loot from my observations and I believe that is the intended behaviour.


Oh, I realize that. I was just questioning FoS's assertion that end rewards were not random. They seem random at times, but I just want a confirmation that they are always selected from a set list.

Systern
05-07-2012, 07:35 PM
Really? Then what is this all about? It is checked by default and has to be disabled by the player. I realize that a lot of end loot (especially quest chains) has set choices to fill the list with, but there are many that are completely random, no?

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx93/Corbomite/ScreenShot00000-1.jpg

The stuff handed to you by a person after completing a quest is "Oh, hey, you're a <foo> you might like one of these."

The stuff you find lying about in random boxes (aka chests in dungeons) is random stuff in a random box.

Silverleafeon
05-07-2012, 07:41 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.Ah, Chester the Avatar of the loot gods approves of this message and adds:

"Drink more haste potions..."

Feather_of_Sun
05-07-2012, 09:06 PM
Oh, I realize that. I was just questioning FoS's assertion that end rewards were not random. They seem random at times, but I just want a confirmation that they are always selected from a set list.

I was speaking with regard to treasure chests.

As for quest end rewards, that option only applies to lists that would otherwise be random. If an end reward list has any special items in it (special crafting ingredients, named items, for example), then it is unaffected by the Quest End Rewards Based On Class selection. That is why Quest End Rewards Based On Class does not function on quest end rewards in the Vale of Twilight, Necropolis, Red Fens, Reign of Madness Part 1, and any other locations where any item has been set manually to have a chance of appearing on a reward list.

I hope that clears it up for you.

t0r012
05-07-2012, 09:55 PM
I was speaking with regard to treasure chests.

As for quest end rewards, that option only applies to lists that would otherwise be random. If an end reward list has any special items in it (special crafting ingredients, named items, for example), then it is unaffected by the Quest End Rewards Based On Class selection. That is why Quest End Rewards Based On Class does not function on quest end rewards in the Vale of Twilight, Necropolis, Red Fens, Reign of Madness Part 1, and any other locations where any item has been set manually to have a chance of appearing on a reward list.

I hope that clears it up for you.

I'm curious as to why you made the special crafting ingredients rewards lists completely random?
it would seem to me that the mechanics for having a special named item in a rewards list with a special item is in place already with the guild renown tokens. not knowing the code for renown i can't say it would be easy to convert to special crafting ingred but logically it seems like a perfect fit, from my ignorant perspective.

FrostBeard
05-07-2012, 10:37 PM
why not change it so you can choose what you want, rather then randomness.

nothing worse than being skunked on a 20th run.

you have an expansion coming up, use the opportunity to try something new?

Zengar
05-07-2012, 11:03 PM
I'm curious as to why you made the special crafting ingredients rewards lists completely random?
it would seem to me that the mechanics for having a special named item in a rewards list with a special item is in place already with the guild renown tokens. not knowing the code for renown i can't say it would be easy to convert to special crafting ingred but logically it seems like a perfect fit, from my ignorant perspective.

If I remember correctly, they tried that initially and later on there ended up being unpredictable behavior with the reward lists. For just some people, the lists would end up blank or with only a couple of items on them. Unable to track down just how the code was producing those effects, they changed to this setup which, while not ideal, at least gives everyone all of the reward choices they are entitled to.

Programming can be an odd occupation. Not all coding mistakes have noticeable effects at the time they are made, but then sometime later, maybe years down the road, somebody uses a variable with the same name or otherwise does something that shouldn't cause problems and the programmer is left scratching his head because there really is nothing wrong with his/her code. And for some problems, the original mistake could be anywhere, in any other part of the program.

fco-karatekid
05-08-2012, 12:43 AM
...For just some people, the lists would end up blank or with only a couple of items on them. ...

Still does that occasionally.

Gkar
05-08-2012, 01:06 AM
Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #3:
Helm of Intimidation +3, 211 Gold Pieces

Stop displaying it one entry at a time COLLECT IT. You need a sample size in the hundred+ range to have even the slightest meaning.

uthanak69
05-08-2012, 01:27 AM
I would actually take it one further and make all raid loot BTA instead of BTC...

BTA, then BTC on equip would work.

Vordax
05-08-2012, 01:34 AM
Stop displaying it one entry at a time COLLECT IT. You need a sample size in the hundred+ range to have even the slightest meaning.

More than that, thousands at a minimum. The sheer number of loot possibilities is huge. Not to mention, I think the majority of the prefixes/suffixes are not caster centric anyways.

Not counting scrolls or wands since they are rolled independently of the loot item, like gems, except at low levels.

To really know if it is skewed any particular direction you would need to know the coded chance of a caster centric item vs melee centric item is. With the vibe I get from the OP, I suspect he may "forget" some outliers.

Caliban
05-08-2012, 01:48 AM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

Would it be possible to make the unlooted items in the chest become available to everyone once the person they are assigned to exits the quest?

uthanak69
05-08-2012, 01:52 AM
And now after reading the whole thread. Thanks for the laugh! I love it when people think that they are the center of the universe and are right no matter what anyone says. :D :D

Razcar
05-08-2012, 04:14 AM
Why on earth would I make this stuff up? I would not. It is a pain in the ass that I am expected to prove my observations, but fine. I will. Right here on this thread. It will increase my quest times significantly to make such detailed records, but I will.
It is not that people necessarily think you are making things up. It's that other players have different experiences. Like me. I get random chest loot for all kinds of classes on all kinds of different characters. Now and previously. But maybe your account has some weird bug. Or maybe your rolls consistently go "wrong" just by chance.

If you claim something is happening to you, that is not happening to anyone else, you shouldn't be surprised if people become skeptical. Especially since this is an internet forum where no one knows you.

susiedupfer
05-08-2012, 09:24 AM
/not signed

I am always glad to see greatswords, greataxes, and handwraps in chests because these sell for more than maces do. I run all blue bar toons, so selling random chest loot is how I buy elixirs. I do, however, get tired of seeing forum posts that say that DDO MUST change to suit their tastes. It is how it is, it will be however the devs and marketers decide to make it. Figure out how to deal with that instead of insisting things change to suit you.

SableShadow
05-08-2012, 09:41 AM
I will post my data as I see fit, thanks.


/shrug

You're only making it difficult on yourself.

If I want to do data collection (and I do periodically, both in game and out), I drop it into a spreadsheet. One column for sample number, one column for the result, one column for category (e.g. in this case, maybe "mystic, martial, other"), and other columns for notes or potential special causes you want to block for. The simplest analysis you can do is grab a buncha data, toss it into a graph to see if a high level pattern emerges.

Forum posts, result by result, are a very, very poor way to record data for later analysis ... you end up just repeating work, as you'll have to go back and pull all the stuff together again. Also, even a fraction of the data needed, posted singly, would make the thread completely unreadable.

There *are* hard to find bugs out there that end up effecting a tiny number of players (e.g. AC's aggro bug, CoH's Dark Smite/FF bug) ... on the other hand, I've lost count of the "drop rate is bugged!", "UMD is bugged!", "<whatever> is bugged!" complaints that turn out to be nothing.



We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players.

Thank you. :)

Memnir
05-08-2012, 10:31 AM
Log in with Wizard, run quest. From chest - loot a melee item/weapon.

The following options present themselves:

bank item, and use next time logging in on/rolling up a melee character
sell item to bartender for small profit
sell item at broker for slightly more profit
AH item to maximize chances of best profit
crunch item at crafting station for ingredients and nominal monetary gain.
enjoy class-specific end reward while basking in the glory of helping an NPC with their problems
repeat



I've noticed that money and crafting items are not class-specific, and more of both is always welcome. Heck, you could crunch trash-items and then sell the ingredients on the AH if you are not a crafter - and probably make more money then you would selling the items themselves.


Don't think of these things as items you can't use... think of them as money in an unprocessed state.

Failedlegend
05-08-2012, 10:40 AM
Don't think of these things as items you can't use... think of them as money in an unprocessed state.

Quick, concise and to the point...I like it :D

Hafeal
05-08-2012, 01:58 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, intentionally discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.



I have added a word for clarification FoS. Oh, and I do believe I am the victim of unintentional treasure discrimination - I have been unable to pick-up a Ring of Ancestors, Bloodstone, and other various 'special' items for years now. Since you were kind enough to pop-in, perhaps you could *cough* help a player out?

:D

st0rmcr0vv
05-08-2012, 02:15 PM
I am happy to award to you the title of Special Cultural Ambassador on behalf of the Committee of Transsexual Warforged and Halflings who Like Mauve on Sunday Afternoons, and Plaid on any Other Given Time, as well as of the Action Group for Accepting Plaid as a Color.

Oooh! the CTWHWLMSA AND the AGAPAAC! What an honor. ;)

Krelar
05-08-2012, 02:38 PM
I have added a word for clarification FoS. Oh, and I do believe I am the victim of unintentional treasure discrimination - I have been unable to pick-up a Ring of Ancestors, Bloodstone, and other various 'special' items for years now. Since you were kind enough to pop-in, perhaps you could *cough* help a player out?

:D

Here you go something for that cough. :D
http://www.vicks.com/Assets/Images/en-US/Products/PrimaryProductImg/IMG_P_NYQ_Cough_A.png

Gurei
05-08-2012, 03:08 PM
Let me get this straight. Let's say you're right, and Turbine is out to get you. You want them to give your arcane wands and scrolls? 99.9% of the time that's worse than getting gemmed! Hell, at least gems don't take up a precious inventory space.

Those days I get scrolls constantly (on my 20 wiz) are the days my luck is ****, days where i get nothing but weapons from those partycrasher chests I'm FAR happier. Yes, it is a bummer when a fighter loots a major mnemonic potion, but I do the exact same thing on my dwarven barbarian so who cares?

I've never had a problem with getting loot for a different class, but I can promise you this is VERY random, I get robes as often as I get full plate and chain mail. It probably feels like it's uneven because you can use only 1/3-1/14 of each type of loot pulled. I wish you luck in getting loot you want more if you stop complaining about some loot-conspiracy the vast majority people don't believe in or don't care (probably both). If you keep complaining, let the bad loot pour.

Needless to say, /not signed.

Hafeal
05-08-2012, 04:44 PM
I do NOT want to hear anyone say these forums aren't full of CARING individuals. And, uh, thanks Krelar, if you could mail that to me in-game I'll be sure to imbibe; and, say, attach a planar gird along with it ... http://www.themacguild.com/forums/images/smilies/Surprised/wide-eyed.gif:D


Here you go something for that cough. :D
http://www.vicks.com/Assets/Images/en-US/Products/PrimaryProductImg/IMG_P_NYQ_Cough_A.png

Memnir
05-08-2012, 04:50 PM
I do NOT want to hear anyone say these forums aren't full of CARING individuals.Indeed! In fact - why wait to log in, says I!
.
.
.
http://content.turbine.com/sites/compendium.ddo.com/images/icons/item/eq_potion_removedisease.png (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Potion_of_Disease_Removal)
.
.
http://content.turbine.com/sites/compendium.ddo.com/images/icons/item/eq_quest_belt_planar_gird.png (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Planar_Gird)
.
.
.
Hope ya feel better soonish. :D

brickwall
05-08-2012, 04:57 PM
Back In The Day When Loot Was Static An You Had To Run The Quest X Amount Of Times For The Loot You Wanted People Complained And Complained Make Loot Random Make Loot Random And Now It Is. This Being The Case You Cant Make Everyone Happy And Where Suppose To Make Progress Not Regress.

Hafeal
05-08-2012, 06:36 PM
You're cruel Mem, cruel. http://www.themacguild.com/forums/images/smilies/Sad/melodramatic.gif


Indeed! In fact - why wait to log in, says I!
.
.
.
http://content.turbine.com/sites/compendium.ddo.com/images/icons/item/eq_potion_removedisease.png (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Potion_of_Disease_Removal)
.
.
http://content.turbine.com/sites/compendium.ddo.com/images/icons/item/eq_quest_belt_planar_gird.png (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Planar_Gird)
.
.
.
Hope ya feel better soonish. :D

RobbinB
05-08-2012, 06:47 PM
Salutations.

I'm the developer in charge of our treasure system.

You'll be pleased to note that random treasure does not, in fact, discriminate in any way based on race, class, gender, time of day, favorite color, or any other means.

It's just a random roll on a table of results that I or another designer has set up.

We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players. When you find items that you are unable to use, I'd suggest selling them to a vendor, trading them to another player, or putting them on the auction house for another player to purchase.

OK, this seems to be a clear and straightforward summary of how the loot system works, except....

there is the issue of the "Select rewards based on class" (or something like that) checkbox in one of the options panel.

So does that currently have any effect on the items you get as rewards? Did it ever? If so, how does it function? Has it been actually tested to ensure it is working properly?

Feather_of_Sun
05-08-2012, 06:58 PM
OK, this seems to be a clear and straightforward summary of how the loot system works, except....

there is the issue of the "Select rewards based on class" (or something like that) checkbox in one of the options panel.

So does that currently have any effect on the items you get as rewards? Did it ever? If so, how does it function? Has it been actually tested to ensure it is working properly?

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4441556&postcount=37

Yes, the option "Quest End Rewards Based On Class" will restrict items from a quest reward end list to be of specific item types based on the class you have a majority of levels in, and it works fine. It does not work on any reward lists that are not otherwise completely random. If any special items can appear in a reward list, then Quest End Rewards Based On Class has no effect.

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:25 PM
Let me get this straight. Let's say you're right, and Turbine is out to get you.

I did not say Turbine was out to get me. Typical troll, put words in someone else's mouth, put them down for what you say they said (not what they actually said) and then base your argument on it. Classic troll, classic.

This is the last reply to the trolls. If you have no data, legitimate questions or non-demeaning input to post then do not post.

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:26 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #4

Solo (The Sunken Sewer - Elite):
+1 Docent, Potion of Fox's Cunning, 108 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Arcane Essences

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:27 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #5

Solo (Recovering The Lost Tome - Elite):
+1 Shocking Touch Longsword, 99 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Shocking Grasp

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #6

Solo (Recovering The Lost Tome - Elite):
Lesser Fire Guard Robe, 236 Gold Pieces

This is the first piece of wizard usable loot I have seen a wizard draw from a chest in a low level quest since 2010. Hurray! :)

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:29 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #7

Solo (The Swiped Signet - Elite):
+1 Bastard Sword, 224 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:30 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #8

Solo (The Swiped Signet - Elite):
Outfit of Lesser Lightning Resistance, 309 Gold Pieces

This is the second piece of wizard usable loot I have seen a wizard draw from a chest in a low level quest since 2010. Something has changed since yesterday. Thank you.

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 07:35 PM
I do believe this ultimately is an issue of statistics. There just isn't much wizard usable loot at low levels to put into a loot table. (But my fighter character does in fact draw it more often). While the selection of loot may be random, its distribution by class according to level, I suspect is not. (It really looks this way)

A point that may help illustrate:

Let's say I put six identical oranges in to a basket and draw one at random for you. While the selection is random, the result is not.

Tomorrow I will run my fighter through a few quests to demonstrate that he does in fact pull wizard usable loot more often than the wizard.

Is your database under some sort of revision control system or incremental backup to monitor the changes that may or may not have affected this? Please tell me you are not using Oracle. Is the correct version of the loot table actually in production? Are there duplicate records present? Are duplicate records used to affect the "random" selection outcome? What is the exact logic and architecture behind it?

Krelar
05-08-2012, 08:18 PM
You may need to clarify you definition of wizard loot. This is my personally opinion of your loot entires based on usability for a wizard (I count things that would be usable to everyone aka gold, essences, pots)


Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #1:
+1 Handwraps, Jade Ring, 170 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Water Essences

3/4 Wizard usable


Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #2:
+1 Acid Touch Battleaxe, Potion of Fox's Cunning, 120 Gold Pieces, Greater Air Essence, Heroic Deeds


4/5


Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #3:
Helm of Intimidation +3, 211 Gold Pieces

1/2


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #4
+1 Docent, Potion of Fox's Cunning, 108 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Arcane Essences

All of that is usable and by a wizard (if warforged) if not warforged 3/4 are usable by a wizard.


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #5

Solo (Recovering The Lost Tome - Elite):
+1 Shocking Touch Longsword, 99 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Shocking Grasp

2/3 wizard loot


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #6

Solo (Recovering The Lost Tome - Elite):
Lesser Fire Guard Robe, 236 Gold Pieces

This is the first piece of wizard usable loot I have seen a wizard draw from a chest in a low level quest since 2010. Hurray! :)

2/2 wizard loot


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #7

Solo (The Swiped Signet - Elite):
+1 Bastard Sword, 224 Gold Pieces

1/2 wizard loot


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #7

Solo (The Swiped Signet - Elite):
Outfit of Lesser Lightning Resistance, 309 Gold Pieces

This is the second piece of wizard usable loot I have seen a wizard draw from a chest in a low level quest since 2010. Something has changed since yesterday. Thank you.

2/2 wizard loot

so at least 18/24 by my count.

Xyy
05-08-2012, 08:18 PM
Harry to his minions, "Prepare the chests, there's gonna be twelve Favored Souls coming!"

jjflanigan
05-08-2012, 08:34 PM
I do believe this ultimately is an issue of statistics. There just isn't much wizard usable loot at low levels to put into a loot table. (But my fighter character does in fact draw it more often). While the selection of loot may be random, its distribution by class according to level, I suspect is not. (It really looks this way)

A point that may help illustrate:

Let's say I put six identical oranges in to a basket and draw one at random for you. While the selection is random, the result is not.

Tomorrow I will run my fighter through a few quests to demonstrate that he does in fact pull wizard usable loot more often than the wizard.

Is your database under some sort of revision control system or incremental backup to monitor the changes that may or may not have affected this? Please tell me you are not using Oracle. Is the correct version of the loot table actually in production? Are there duplicate records present? Are duplicate records used to affect the "random" selection outcome? What is the exact logic and architecture behind it?

Why are you recording chest loot? Chest loot is in no way impacted by your character class or race. Period, end of story. It doesn't matter what character you use to loot from a chest, it uses the same loot table.

Loot tables are HUGE, to get anything statistically relevant you'd have to try it with chests of the exact same level hundreds of thousands of times.

-JJ

Cernunan
05-08-2012, 08:52 PM
Chest loot is in no way impacted by your character class or race. Period, end of story. It doesn't matter what character you use to loot from a chest, it uses the same loot table.
-JJ

http://jethomson.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/illogical.jpg

Cholgosh
05-08-2012, 09:03 PM
While I understand the OP's frustration, kinda, I just can't agree with the suggestion that loot should be class-appropriate. Random loot is, well, random. Honestly, if our characters were real people adventuring in the world, could they really expect that the loot in that shiny chest they just found is going to be going to be appropriate to their class? Would they even expect such a thing? Probably not. More likely, as someone else has pointed out already, they'd see "unusable" loot as a) something to trade with party members, b) something to sell or break down or c) cold hard cash.

So no, /not signed.

uthanak69
05-08-2012, 09:12 PM
I did not say Turbine was out to get me. Typical troll, put words in someone else's mouth, put them down for what you say they said (not what they actually said) and then base your argument on it. Classic troll, classic.

This is the last reply to the trolls. If you have no data, legitimate questions or non-demeaning input to post then do not post.

So, you can tell EVERYONE that they are wrong but that is not insulting or anything else. But when anyone else tries/has tried to tell you that you're wrong, they are trolling, they are insulting? My head hurts.

Mizzaroo
05-08-2012, 09:19 PM
While I understand the OP's frustration, kinda, I just can't agree with the suggestion that loot should be class-appropriate. Random loot is, well, random. Honestly, if our characters were real people adventuring in the world, could they really expect that the loot in that shiny chest they just found is going to be going to be appropriate to their class? Would they even expect such a thing? Probably not. More likely, as someone else has pointed out already, they'd see "unusable" loot as a) something to trade with party members, b) something to sell or break down or c) cold hard cash.

So no, /not signed.


So, you can tell EVERYONE that they are wrong but that is not insulting or anything else. But when anyone else tries/has tried to tell you that you're wrong, they are trolling, they are insulting? My head hurts.

Both these people have said exactly what I(and some people I showed this thread to for giggles) have been thinking. Especially the second person. Of course, hes now likely to call me a troll for agreeing with people who disagree with him :(

Zachski
05-08-2012, 09:24 PM
Er, there is no conspiracy to have a shared bank option.

There's a thing called a mailbox. You can use that to send items between characters for pennies, as long as they're on the same server.

Quite frankly, dude, you're coming across as paranoid. Yell at me if you want, but the lists you've posted show that you're wrong - you've gotten a lot of wizard loot already...

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #9

With lvl 9 Wizard Player - Party of two (Purge the Heretics - Hard):
+3 Khopesh, 20 +1 Bolts of Magical Beast Bane, 249 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Acid Blast, 2 Greater Body Essences

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #10

With lvl 9 Wizard Player - Party of two (Purge the Heretics - Hard):
Bracers of Sustenance +3, 360 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-08-2012, 09:40 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #11

With lvl 9 Wizard Player - Party of two (Purge the Heretics - Hard):
+1 Shock Morningstar, 20 +1 Shuriken, 2 Ambers, 8 White Pearls, 5 Greater Air Essences, 96 Khyber Dragonshard Fragments

I guess I'm the only one posting actual data. No further comment is necessary.

Yazston_the_Invoker
05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
No further comment is necessary.

Good...does this mean you are finally done calling everyone else liars, including the dev that has access to the tables, who came in here and was nice enough to tell you that there is, in fact, no racial or class bias to ANY chest loot?

I find it funny that the OP states an opinion even though he has no empirical data, then gets mad that people argue with him, simply because they also have no empirical data...then he goes and starts getting data and records it so slowly, and in such inefficient manner(even though 2 posters nicely tried to help, which only got them insulted by the OP), it will take him years to get to a point where a true rational result is obtained, whch will most likely be what FoS stated directly TWICE. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one whose head hurts?

sephiroth1084
05-08-2012, 10:00 PM
I guess I'm the only one posting actual data. No further comment is necessary.
You know, except for the developer who came in and told you that chest loot is in no way affected by your end reward loot based on class selection. And your "data" is statistically irrelevant until you get into the hundreds or thousands of chests opened. Oh, and your conclusions based on your data are faulty, since apparently you don't know what is and isn't wizard appropriate loot.

Krelar
05-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #9
+3 Khopesh, 20 +1 Bolts of Magical Beast Bane, 249 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Acid Blast, 2 Greater Body Essences

3/5


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #10
Bracers of Sustenance +3, 360 Gold Pieces

2/2 (I suppose you could argue the bracers are not worth using on ANYONE) :p


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record Entry #11
+1 Shock Morningstar, 20 +1 Shuriken, 2 Ambers, 8 White Pearls, 5 Greater Air Essences, 96 Khyber Dragonshard Fragments


4/6


So 9/13 this round

bringing the total to:
27/37 approximately 73% usable by a wizard not looking too good so far.

Falco_Easts
05-08-2012, 11:00 PM
Was busy cutting & pasting and Krelar beat me to it.

Frankly, I am not seeing your issue OP.

Matuse
05-08-2012, 11:25 PM
This is the second piece of wizard usable loot I have seen a wizard draw from a chest in a low level quest since 2010. Something has changed since yesterday. Thank you.

Yes, because of the overwhelming statistical example of 5 chests, the developers changed something.

And seriously, the only way you could get 2 pieces of low level wizard loot in 2 years is if you just never looted any low level chests.

Or, as I said in my first post on this thread: YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY.

Memnir
05-09-2012, 01:01 AM
No further comment is necessary.I disagree.
We have no plans at this time to make chests have class-based treasure, as this would have a negative impact for many players.Now no further comments are necessary.


:)

Meetch1972
05-09-2012, 01:53 AM
I'm fresh outta popcorn!

I also agree 200% with the OP's assertion, 'cos I see NO tomes OR thieves tool whatsoever in the list of loot so far! Just scrolls 'n' weapons 'n' clothes 'n' jewellery 'n' other stuff! And those fox pots are always completely useless!

It's clearly a bug, and all developers must jump on the problem and fix it ASAP!

Ow... my tongue just pierced my cheek. Medic!!!

quijenoth
05-09-2012, 04:09 AM
I play with a regular group of 3 people and when I first started playing DDO I made a wizard.

It became a running joke by the time we where level 6 because, no matter what, I would garantee to loot at least 1 suit of Full Plate per dungeon!

It was funny and quite entertaining, but on some quests I found myself running to sell or leaving armor in the chests because it over-encumbered me! At no point do I feel shafted by Turbine though.

Scraap
05-09-2012, 04:28 AM
If you're absolutely convinced something pear-shaped has gone down with your characters at low level, Try ransacking(so 7+ times) Irestone inlet (Level:4 Chests: 8 - 14) and Gwylan's Stand (Level:7 Chests: 6 - 10). That should get you a large enough baseline listing for a bit of analysis.

Rawrargh
05-09-2012, 04:38 AM
There's 4 so called "wizard weapons": Daggers, sickles, clubs (including scepters) and staves. There is a total of 43 weapon types.

1 wizard armor, wich is robes, out of 14 armor types. (not counting docents)

Accessories can be worn regardless of the class.

Now for some basic math... since I'm too lazy to factor in potions, gems, ingredients, scrols etc.

57 types of items out of wich you can use 5 of them.

(5/57)*100 = 8.77% of pulling a "wizard item"

do the same math for a non-picky fighter and you get 57/1 * 100 = 100% chance of pulling an item useable by a fighter... does that clarify anything?

wax_on_wax_off
05-09-2012, 05:17 AM
Judging by what I've seen the OP thinks that only a very small proportion of possible loot is wizard gear. On the other hand, amazingly enough, only a small proportion of available gear is wizard gear!

Armours: 1 type out of a possible 4 (or much more depending on how it's worked out)
Weapons: Most spell casting types only start at higher levels.
Other stuff?

To be fair to the OP, it's entirely possible that he's had a run of bad luck. On the other hand, I don't see how it's fair to say such harsh things to everyone else while the basis for this is memories of loot you pulled 2 years ago from inconsequential chests. I mean, if you were getting correct loot then why would you even remember that? Memory formation theory tends to suggest that we only remember things out of the ordinary ...

Drekisen
05-09-2012, 07:14 AM
I have only read the OP....can't be bothered to read thru 5 pages of replies...but at the OP.......sorry but what you want is kind of silly.

Point being is when you are in a dungeon and you loot some random treasure chest it was probably pillaged or hoarded by some villain most likely only looking to make a gold piece off of it.......it's kind of humorous to expect that every chest in a dungeon that let's say your wizard loots was the possession of another wizard who was only interested in wizard items.

/completely unsigned

If you want class specific loot...finish quests, buy it from the AH or vendors or craft...sorry but this has super mega gigantic easy button written all over it and kills the feel of the game.

Ironforge_Clan
05-09-2012, 07:24 AM
I have only read the OP....can't be bothered to read thru 5 pages of replies...but at the OP.......sorry but what you want is kind of silly.

Point being is when you are in a dungeon and you loot some random treasure chest it was probably pillaged or hoarded by some villain most likely only looking to make a gold piece off of it.......it's kind of humorous to expect that every chest in a dungeon that let's say your wizard loots was the possession of another wizard who was only interested in wizard items.

This!

Seriously now why would you ever expect to find only the type of phat lootz in a chest that benefit your class. It makes absolutely no sense.

esheep
05-09-2012, 10:51 AM
Tomorrow I will run my fighter through a few quests to demonstrate that he does in fact pull wizard usable loot more often than the wizard.


Did you ever play table top D&D? If so, chances are you were in a group (ie, no solo) ... and many DMs didn't assign item A to the wizard and item B to the fighter... they left it for the party to deal with (afterall the wizard and fighter could fight for it if they didn't agree)...

Now comes the part where you need to remember that DDO is based (sometimes very loosely) on D&D... you can solo in DDO, but it really is set up to be a group game... dare I say a social game. Point being if you're in a group and the fighter loots a Major Fire Lore Scepter, he will probably give it to you one way or another. If you (can) look at it from this perspective, your issue becomes a non issue.


With that said, I wouldn't mind a few changes to chest loot for the sake of convenience ... maybe a few gameplay setting options...

I don't like being offered spell components for other classes, it just clutters up the chest... there should (imo) be an option to "disregard any spell components that are not usable by your class(es)"....

I also don't like random non-returning throwing weapons, I don't loot them, I don't sell them, they clutter the chests... (ie 20 +5 Axiomatic Throwing Axes)... there should (again, imo) be an option to "disregard any non-returning throwing weapons." ... not including arrows, which are sometimes more useful as they can be crafting ingredients.

SiliconScout
05-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Sorry guy I have read through the entire thread.

First you have been getting dogpiled for sure, but honestly you are quite hostile and have been so from the beginning so it's perhaps not surprising. One tends to reap what one sows.

As for the loot tables. I have done well over 500 myself trying to figure out if certain quests / levels / characters were more likely to yield certain rewards (in my case it was mnemonic potions that I was hunting). My results showed that certain level ranges were more likely to yield the potions but in general the higher the level the more likely I was going to get that major mnemonic.

In essence my findings were that certain weapon types dropped more often (clubs and scepters) and others were quite rare (staves in particular)

Armour was roughly evenly distributed by type (cloth, light, med, heavy) with a slight favoring of the top end of each tier for example Full Plate was the most common of the Heavy Armours.

All in all though the only anomaly I seemed to find was that I did get a lot more clubs and scepters overall than other weapons. For the rest I didn't find any statistical difference. Strangely from that perspective I found an abundance of "wizard loot" as the clubs and scepters tend to have at least 1 casting enhancement prefix or suffix.

FYI from what I could determine, the best strategy for hunting Major Mnemonics is to run quests that generate max chests per minute over level 11. Class had no bearing, party numbers / hirelings had no bearing.

I would suggest that the Dev's more or less correct in that the random chests are random. I would also suggest that you try to take things less personally and reign in your "troll" tirades. You are far more likely to get help, and really good help, on the forums if you are less abrasive.

bigolbear
05-09-2012, 11:43 AM
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4441556&postcount=37

Yes, the option "Quest End Rewards Based On Class" will restrict items from a quest reward end list to be of specific item types based on the class you have a majority of levels in, and it works fine. It does not work on any reward lists that are not otherwise completely random. If any special items can appear in a reward list, then Quest End Rewards Based On Class has no effect.

Actualy in my opinion its not working fine at all. (unless its been changed recently and im not aware)

heres why: its an account wide setting.

for some characters it makes sense to have this on, for others it does not.

Suggestion:
1. make it a character specific choice.
2. rather than simply looking at class it should look at stat distribution, selected feats etc.

For example, my dwarven battle cleric with a monk splash has no use for armour, or maces, or 10 different sacred items.

Personaly Ive always felt that the reward list could be imporved a great deal, offering stacks of scrolls to casters, stacks of health pots, or haste pots or rage pots to meles etc etc.

Id also like to see a 'gold value' reward, ie rather than selecting a given item from the list simple select a cash reward if there is nothing in the list that grabs your attention.

SiliconScout
05-09-2012, 11:50 AM
well vendor trash = gold value.

having an easy button / auto vendor has been talked about before. I would only be in favour of it if it gave you say 80% of say what the vendor himself will give you.

Call it an easy button tax if you like.

I know personally I love playing when I have a low inventory toon and the guys I am running with are full. I get TONS of extra lootz! LOL

Ganolyn
05-09-2012, 01:32 PM
Actualy in my opinion its not working fine at all. (unless its been changed recently and im not aware)

heres why: its an account wide setting.


Unless I am completely mis-remembering, this is not true. You set it charcter by character.

Hokiewa
05-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Unless I am completely mis-remembering, this is not true. You set it charcter by character.

This is true

Matuse
05-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Tomorrow I will run my fighter through a few quests to demonstrate that he does in fact pull wizard usable loot more often than the wizard.

I totally missed this part. Hilarious. After a whole what, 9 chests? It's time for sampling from the other side. There's only umpteen billion different loot combinations available, I'm sure that 9 chest pulls shows us everything we could possibly need to know.

SiliconScout
05-09-2012, 05:22 PM
Like I said above I did over 500 and found that it is pretty much random.

The variance I did find could easily be explained by the small sample size but I would say subjectively that I do feel I consistently get more clubs and scepters than staves or say kukuri's.

Then again it could easily be that the club and the scepter are considered different weapons and therefore they should appear twice as often as any other weapon type when combined.

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:28 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #1 (Garrison's Missing Pack - Normal):
+1 Half Plate, 103 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #3 (Garrison's Missing Pack - Normal):
+1 Chain Shirt, 109 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:34 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #4 (Information is Key - Normal):
Scepter, 99 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:34 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #5 (The Captives - Normal):
Cloak of Slow Trap, 125 Gold Pieces, 2 Greater Divine Essences

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #6 (The Captives - Normal):
Belt of Sleep, 127 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:36 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #7 (The Captives - Normal):
Handwraps, 20 Masterwork Bolts, 56 Gold Pieces, Heroic Deeds

uthanak69
05-09-2012, 08:36 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #2 (Garrison's Missing Pack - Normal):
Masterwork Khopesh, 103 Gold Pieces



See my signature? Read it, and read my posts, one of the previous ones says there will be hundreds of records. Did I say I was finished? No. I'm just running some quests with my fighter for some variety, this is supposed to be a game for fun, not all free QA work that I'm not getting paid for.

What a buffoon. Good gawd you people are stupid. Oh yeah, you're all real smart. I'm sure you will keep showing us just how smart you area and how effective your pathetic insults directed towards others are. There are better ways to gain confidence in life, like achieving something useful. You can go eat worms too.

I think you've missed the point of EVERYTHING.

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:36 PM
Level 5 Fighter Chest Loot Record Entry #8 (The Captives - Normal):
Masterwork Light Mace, 123 Gold Pieces, Greater Body Essence

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 08:38 PM
Coolness. My fighter is no longer getting exclusively wizard loot. Bonus! This has only changed since I started this thread; make of it what you will and proceed with all your predictable and transparent insults. I do not not care and will continue to record my data. :P

SiliconScout
05-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Coolness. My fighter is no longer getting exclusively wizard loot. Bonus! This has only changed since I started this thread; make of it what you will and proceed with all your predictable and transparent insults. I do not not care and will continue to record my data. :P

Dude, I am telling you I have already done exactly what you are doing.

It really really IS random. Really. And it has been for years and years and years.

Also I would suggest that insulting and personally attacking people is not the best way to build a positive reputation on the boards here. I would think you should be careful as I am sure that walking down the path will end up getting you banned. It has for pretty much everyone else I have seen here posting in this manner. The fact that they (or you perhaps) deleted the 2nd fighter post (which was quoted) should be all the proof you need in that regard. And please don't misconstrue this as an attack or slam against you. It's an honest attempt to help you become a better poster and contributing forum member.

As for your original point, I am thinking you probably had a string of bad luck and play multiple toons (obviously) so the randomness did not appear random when you thought about each character individually instead of your playing time as a whole.

Matuse
05-09-2012, 10:59 PM
This has only changed since I started this thread

I recommend you do a Google search for "wearing the juice".

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 11:03 PM
More fighter loot for my wizard. :(

Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #12 (The Church and The Cult - Normal) with Level 10 Wizard player in party of two:
+4 Khopesh, 893 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-09-2012, 11:04 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #13 (The Church and The Cult - Normal) with Level 10 Wizard player in party of two:
+3 Heavy Steel Shield, 20 +1 Bolts of Greater Magical Beast Bane, 344 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Byeshk Weapons, Scroll of Inflict Moderate Wounds, Scroll of Lightning Sphere

SiliconScout
05-09-2012, 11:25 PM
I recommend you do a Google search for "wearing the juice".

OK now THAT made me giggle. +1

I think I may have made it on his ignore list.... :(

That or lemons are particularly in season right now.

Mizzaroo
05-10-2012, 12:11 AM
Firstly, let me mention that it is my experience that chest loot IS random. As most people have been called trolls by you for saying. Im sorry you find chest loot that you dont want on your fighter and wiz. Really Im not, but saying I am sounds kinda nice.

Secondly, Do you REALLY believe that Turbine would change one persons chest loot just because they post their supposed chest loot? How do we know that that stuff your posting really IS your chest loot? And why would they go out of their way to change YOUR loot?

Thirdly, and most importantly, you cant just appear on a public forum for something(weather its for DDO or anything else), and post something expecting EVERYONE to agree with you then practicly curse out those who dont. People were friendly enough in the beginning to you and you practicly spat in their faces. Do you really expect them to be nice to you now or in the future? If so, your going to have a rough time making friends here.

I know your going to call me a troll, but really, Im just a nice girl being as honest and nice as possible to someone who thinks a little to highly of his own opinions. The games chest loot IS NOT ALIGNED AGAINST YOU. A Dev even said as much and you practicly called him a liar to his face. The way I see it all is simple, you can either:
A: Accept that your not always going to pull what you want from chests or
B: Go back on hiatus from the game

Thats my 'two cents' as the saying goes.

BitkaCK2
05-10-2012, 12:18 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #13 (The Church and The Cult - Normal) with Level 10 Wizard player in party of two:
+3 Heavy Steel Shield, 20 +1 Bolts of Greater Magical Beast Bane, 344 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Byeshk Weapons, Scroll of Inflict Moderate Wounds, Scroll of Lightning Sphere

While I almost admire your tenacity, conducting a study on how random chest loot is random is not necessary. Updating us with the random loot from a chest that generates random loot is not very informative since, well, we expect a chest with random loot to have random loot. In fact your posts became spam about 2 miles back at the exit for Tinfoil Hat Gulch. In my opinion, they are on the verge of trolling. After all, question was answered by a dev several posts ago.

Still, I encourage you to open up an Excel spreadsheet, record your data there and after sampling somewhere around a million or so random chests with random loot your can put together a nice comprehensive summary of DDO's RNG and then create a post about how much DDO's random loot cube hates you. Hope this helps.

IBTL,
bitkaCK2

Mizzaroo
05-10-2012, 12:22 AM
While I almost admire your tenacity, conducting a study on how random chest loot is random is not necessary. Updating us with the random loot from a chest that generates random loot is not very informative since, well, we expect a chest with random loot to have random loot. In fact your posts became spam about 2 miles back at the exit for Tinfoil Hat Gulch. In my opinion, they are on the verge of trolling. After all, question was answered by a dev several posts ago.

Still, I encourage you to open up an Excel spreadsheet, record your data there and after sampling somewhere around a million or so random chests with random loot your can put together a nice comprehensive summary of DDO's RNG and then create a post about how much DDO's random loot cube hates you. Hope this helps.

IBTL,
bitkaCK2

Be forwarned, the poster has called people trolls for telling him/her/it how to record their data! BLAH

Quarterling
05-10-2012, 04:32 AM
My data from the past couple days.

Very large spreadsheet image (since you probably don't want to download my spreadsheet), so click on this link to see it (http://i.imgur.com/YpNnA.png).

End result was surprisingly close.

Melee got 43 pieces of melee loot and 25 pieces of caster loot.
Caster got 44 pieces of melee loot and 27 pieces of caster loot.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 07:43 AM
Nice work Quarterling. The effort is appreciated. That is how you make a case. No insults, just data. Good man.

Interestingly, I continue to get the reverse trend...


Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #14 (A Man Named Baudry Cartamon - Elite) solo:
+1 Docent, 202 Gold Pieces

Yet another docent. I will not pay to play warforged no matter how many I get. (even if I wanted to)

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 07:43 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #15 (A Man Named Baudry Cartamon - Elite) solo:
Belt of Light Fortification, 186 Gold Pieces

Matuse
05-10-2012, 08:49 AM
No insults, just data.

So, you're 0/2 on your own criteria then.

SiliconScout
05-10-2012, 09:17 AM
.....
That is how you make a case. No insults, just data.
....

If you are going to reply to my posts, then please read them first. Thank you.



Would be nice if you had heeded your own advice in this thread I must say.

Also I tried to find my old spreadsheet, alas it looks like it was wiped out in the great hard drive crash of '11.

Again though the frequency of items appeared to match well. Meaning more fighter stuff dropped because fighters can use more stuff. Again the exception there is that I did get a lot of clubs and Sceptres and nearly no staves. Then again I only recorded just over 500 chests so that really isn't a very large sample size considering that the game probably opens that many chests a minute over all accounts.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 09:31 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #16 (The Smuggler's Warehouse - Elite) solo:
+1 Dwarven Axe, 20 Masterwork Throwing Daggers, Chiku's Bauble, 118 Gold Pieces, 10 Eyelashes in Gum Arabic

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 09:32 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #17 (Missing in Action - Elite) solo:
Cloak of Hiding +3, 197 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Body Essences, Heroic Deeds

Toblakai
05-10-2012, 09:54 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #17 (Missing in Action - Elite) solo:
Cloak of Hiding +3, 197 Gold Pieces, 3 Greater Body Essences, Heroic Deeds

Don't you think it would be a better idea to gather all the information into a spreadsheet, like quarterling did? Its going to take 1000's of chest pulls to come to any conclusion and a spreadsheet would be the ideal place to consolidate this data.

Try using Google Docs spreadsheet, you can set the spreadsheet up to be public viewable but only editable by you and then you can share the link in this forum.

MrElusiveness
05-10-2012, 09:55 AM
Consistently now my wizard gets fighter loot and my fighter gets wizard loot. It did not used to be this way (ca 2010). Now I see ads for sales on shared bank space (which I already have and is not enough to handle the backwards loot collected by each character). I find this pretty obvious, transparent and rather insulting. (Though perhaps I overestimate the cunning of Turbine staff - Hanlon's razor may apply)

Before it is suggested again, I already have quest rewards set to be class appropriate in the options which does seem to work for the most part - I am talking about chest loot here.

I mean really, what does my wizard need all this armour and swords for? What use does my fighter have for wands and scrolls?

To put it in a light that will make sense to the Turbine beancounters: think about additional bandwith and cpu demands of all those logout/logins to transfer loot between the accounts. Just give class appropiate loot please and tell the sales staff where to stuff it... I'm sure the developers would love to but... marketing versus development - the classic employment struggle of the 21st century.

I am saving my paid and earned store points for good adventure content when my characters are ready for it and I have no problem spending it on that.

You have HIGH hopes.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 10:02 AM
So, you're 0/2 on your own criteria then.

You get what you give. Note my replies to civil and constructive posts on the subject. Call me a paranoid liar and what do you expect? Thanks? Get real.

Hokiewa
05-10-2012, 10:16 AM
Continuing a project at a snail's pace when it has clearly been stated that nothing is going to change seems like a fool's errand.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 10:44 AM
Sorry if I have a real life and cannot run quests all day every day. Want me on full time QA? Give me a salary.

Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #18 (Redfang The Unruled - Elite) solo:
Minor Ice Lore Scepter, 135 Gold Pieces, 10 Pinches of Bull Dung, Scroll of Spawn Screen, 4 Greater Body Essences

Wow! Wizard loot! Amazing. It does indeed appear to be quest level related. I am most eager to find out what level Quarterling's character was at for his data and what level quests he was running. So far the non-random pattern I am observing is consistent. It is level dependent. Running these same quests on normal for the first time at lower character levels did not yield any wizard loot at all. (Go ahead trolls, call me a liar for your own self satisfaction, I know you will and it does not take a feather off me. I see none of the trolls providing any hard data).

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 10:45 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #19 (Redfang The Unruled - Elite) solo:
+2 Greatsword, 304 Gold Pieces, Greater Evil Essence

Hokiewa
05-10-2012, 10:51 AM
Sorry if I have a real life and cannot run quests all day every day. Want me on full time QA? Give me a salary.

Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #18 (Redfang The Unruled - Elite) solo:
Minor Ice Lore Scepter, 135 Gold Pieces, 10 Pinches of Bull Dung, Scroll of Spawn Screen, 4 Greater Body Essences

Wow! Wizard loot! Amazing. It does indeed appear to be quest level related. I am most eager to find out what level Quarterling's character was at for his data and what level quests he was running. So far the non-random pattern I am observing is consistent. It is level dependent. Running these same quests on normal for the first time at lower character levels did not yield any wizard loot at all. (Go ahead trolls, call me a liar for your own self satisfaction, I know you will and it does not take a feather off me. I see none of the trolls providing any hard data).

There is no reason to provide hard data. Since a developer has specifically stated that there is not a problem, I would not expect them to pay you to "QA" for them. That same developer also indicated that the current system will not be changed. Sample size is one problem, the other is how you quantify "loot for a <insert class>". Your definition may not fit someone else's definition of usuable loot for that particular class. This is precisely why the system is the system. Now, if you are doing this for your own satisfaction and realize that nothing will come of it, then more power to you.

Proceed.

Matuse
05-10-2012, 10:53 AM
Note my replies to civil and constructive posts on the subject.

The only thing I've noticed is that anyone who disagrees with you in any fashion is a "troll".

You're calling everyone a liar, but claim to be acting civilly. Nobody is buying it.

Toblakai
05-10-2012, 10:57 AM
Sorry if I have a real life and cannot run quests all day every day. Want me on full time QA? Give me a salary.

Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #18 (Redfang The Unruled - Elite) solo:
Minor Ice Lore Scepter, 135 Gold Pieces, 10 Pinches of Bull Dung, Scroll of Spawn Screen, 4 Greater Body Essences

Wow! Wizard loot! Amazing. It does indeed appear to be quest level related. I am most eager to find out what level Quarterling's character was at for his data and what level quests he was running. So far the non-random pattern I am observing is consistent. It is level dependent. Running these same quests on normal for the first time at lower character levels did not yield any wizard loot at all. (Go ahead trolls, call me a liar for your own self satisfaction, I know you will and it does not take a feather off me. I see none of the trolls providing any hard data).

You have had a lot of wizard loot so far. All of the docents could be wizard loot, I would use a cloak of hiding on my wizard before I would use it on a melee. The light fort belt is good for a wizard also.

I think what you define as "wizard" loot is a lot different then what actually is wizard loot.

SiliconScout
05-10-2012, 11:21 AM
I think you may be confusing the idea of "class appropriate" with "character appropriate" actually. The Docent example is a good one, every WF character I have wears a docent of some type. So it's certainly Wizard Loot if your WF is a wizard. That said I believe you stated earlier that you don't have any WF characters and don't plan on buying the Race.

Thus you see docents as being not useful for a wizard when in reality they are not useful for your wizard.

Realistically in all the posts you have made on loot it's looking like the distribution is pretty good really and that is given and incredibly small and insignificant sample size.

Memnir
05-10-2012, 11:25 AM
There is no reason to provide hard data. Since a developer has specifically stated that there is not a problem, I would not expect them to pay you to "QA" for them. That same developer also indicated that the current system will not be changed.
Don Quixote: Dost not see? A monstrous giant of infamous repute whom I intend to encounter.
Sancho Panza: It's a windmill.
Don Quixote: A giant. Canst thou not see the four great arms whirling at his back?
Sancho Panza: A giant?
Don Quixote: Exactly.

Yazston_the_Invoker
05-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Note my replies to civil and constructive posts on the subject.

We have...to many of them you replied with vitriol, sarcasm, or just flat out called them trolls because they were "trying to tell you how to do things", or simply disagreeing and trying to politely find out why you so stubbornly hold to your idea, or what data you have so far acquired that leads you to this belief. Some other posters have tried to politely(yes, politely) point out that you simply might be focusing on the negative and missing the bigger picture, as is human nature. Much of this was done to try to calm you down or help you out, but all we have seen is you insulting those people, and telling FoS that he is wrong, then suggest how he needs to do his job. And before you dismiss this as I know you will, take your own advice and actually read what you wrote.


Call me a paranoid liar and what do you expect?

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone called you a liar, we just pointed out that you are essentially calling FoS and everyone else that disagrees with you liars. Paranoid, perhaps...deluded, stubborn, rude, antagonistic, shortsighted, ineffective, and unable or unwilling to see past your own shortcomings, yes, but a liar, not so much. ;)

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #20 (Misery's Peak - Hard) solo:
Masterwork Banded Mail, 108 Gold Pieces, 2 Greater Mind Essences

The pattern is consistent.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 11:58 AM
Go back and read the whole thread again Yazston_the_Invoker. I speak only the truth.

Hokiewa
05-10-2012, 12:13 PM
Go back and read the whole thread again Yazston_the_Invoker. I speak only the truth.

Not in the least bit.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 12:23 PM
An observation on Quarterling's data. It is not random either, it just shows the opposite trend that I am experiencing at low level. I am guessing his data is from high level, but we will have to wait for his confirmation on this. Still, not random.

You all say I called the developer who posted on this thread a liar and insulted him, I did no such thing. I am simply presenting facts and possible interpretations of them. He is a big boy and can speak for himself. If I had called a developer a liar and insulted them don't you think I would have been banned by now?

Let me remind you of my oranges in a basket analogy. That is what is going on here. While the selection code may be random, the distribution of items in the data pool it is selecting from is not, therefore the end result is a non-random pattern.

There is no room for perfection in commercial software development. The pressures are such that the attitude generally is - Does it basically work? Ok, then release. - I understand this.

Keep insulting me, you only strengthen my case for the quality (or lack thereof) of the people posting on this thread in a non-constructive and abusive way.

Mizzaroo
05-10-2012, 12:34 PM
Keep insulting me, you only strengthen my case for the quality (or lack thereof) of the people posting on this thread in a non-constructive and abusive way.

Im not going to read through the whole bloody thread again, but if memory serves, you started throwing out insults long before others did. As far as Ive seen people HAVE been trying to be constructive to you. EVEN A DEV. How many times does it need to be said to get through to you? Dear sir/ma'am/it(whichever you may be), you thus far have acted like an immature, irrational, unreasonable adult. If you are an adult this is unfortunate. If not, its less shocking. The loot is random. As many have tried saying, theres simply more loot that fighter type characters can use than wizzys. I mean jeebus! If you honestly think that the game is intentionaly screwing you over, how about I start a thread about how Ive run Dirks over a hundred times on Elite and never gotten Mucksbane? But I wont, because I know its just simply bad luck. Eventually Ill pull it. But you go ahead and keep collecting your so called data. Keep calling people who disagree trolls. You dont help your case as a person/player if you keep on this path.

Hokiewa
05-10-2012, 12:38 PM
Im not going to read through the whole bloody thread again, but if memory serves, you started throwing out insults long before others did. As far as Ive seen people HAVE been trying to be constructive to you. EVEN A DEV. How many times does it need to be said to get through to you? Dear sir/ma'am/it(whichever you may be), you thus far have acted like an immature, irrational, unreasonable adult. If you are an adult this is unfortunate. If not, its less shocking. The loot is random. As many have tried saying, theres simply more loot that fighter type characters can use than wizzys. I mean jeebus! If you honestly think that the game is intentionaly screwing you over, how about I start a thread about how Ive run Dirks over a hundred times on Elite and never gotten Mucksbane? But I wont, because I know its just simply bad luck. Eventually Ill pull it. But you go ahead and keep collecting your so called data. Keep calling people who disagree trolls. You dont help your case as a person/player if you keep on this path.

You can't reasonably explain things to people that choose not to listen. It matters very little as FoS explained, the system is working as intended and will not be changed. So a miniscule sample size will be gathered over however long the OP wishes to continue. That's his choice. End result for the game, nothing.

SableShadow
05-10-2012, 01:02 PM
Let me remind you of my oranges in a basket analogy. That is what is going on here. While the selection code may be random, the distribution of items in the data pool it is selecting from is not, therefore the end result is a non-random pattern.


I think you mean 'not evenly distributed' rather than 'non-random', yes? The odds of pulling a +3 rapier are not necessarily the same odds as pulling a +3 con belt, for instance (fictional example).



There is no room for perfection in commercial software development. The pressures are such that the attitude generally is - Does it basically work? Ok, then release. - I understand this.

Keep in mind, the l00t tables were designed to mimic PnP's tables (old post, no idea where to find it anymore). So ... feature, not bug.

That you can see the pattern of the DnD/DDO tables when you record your pulls should be an expected outcome.



You also seem to be trying to use the term "non-random" to make a connection between the possibly true statement "there are more melee items in the 'x' level treasure tables than caster items" and your original statement "my caster pulls melee items and my melee pulls caster items".

The one does not necessarily imply the other.


That's the thing, it is NOT random AT ALL. It is exactly the opposite classes, consistently. Nor was it always this way. In 2010 my wizard got wizard loot and my fighter got fighter loot with some randomisation. Now it is the opposite, consistently, not random in the least.

shadowphoton
05-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Honestly randomly generated loot is mostly garbage for any class. As for being a caster this is even more true because there are only maybe a dozen things you actually need once you reach a certain level. Furthermore there are items that your caster will want that are arguably only for "melee" and so wouldn't have access to based on your desired system.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Fabricator's_Gauntlets

I used those for two lives until I crafted greensteel. +6 STR and +5 Resistance and +15 Balance are all great for a caster, but arguably with the melee alacrity thats not a caster item at all, but designed for a melee, especially with the set bonus.

Most caster loot is garbage. Spell pen items below level IV are all ****, yet they appear constantly. There are many examples of useless loot for all classes. In essence you won't have the loot you want until you've done a bunch of stuff and TRed a couple times. Thats just how it is.

Learn crafting and all your problems will be solved as you will be able to make far superior items for yourself and get them at a much lower level.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 03:59 PM
Im not going to read through the whole bloody thread again, but if memory serves, you started throwing out insults long before others did.

Wrong. I was very civil until people started making direct personal insults against my character. I am still replying civilly and politely to those who do the same. You get what you give.

I see how it is. You don't want to actually read what I have to say and would rather just jump on the beat up on the "new" guy bandwagon, as if insulting me will somehow make you feel important and accomplished somehow.

At this point I have stopped replying with insults to insults, but am rather reporting each attack on my character that is made on this thread. At some point the scales will tip and something will give on that issue. This thread has almost become more about the trolls here than the loot in the game at this point. Fine, so be it. I will report them all (though I doubt there will be any effect, I'm sure such reports are queued up a mile long and forum staff no doubt have better things to do than slap childish trolls on the wrist...).

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Good comments SableShadow and shadowphoton. Thank you for your constructive and polite input. :)

SableShadow, your assesment of the loot distribution situation is very close to my own theory based on the patterns I have observed. (See my earlier basket of oranges analogy.)

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:02 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #21 (Assault on Splinterskull: First Strike - Hard) solo:
+1 Half Plate, 102 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Magic Missile

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:03 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #22 (Assault on Splinterskull: First Strike - Hard) solo:
Cloak of Touch of Idiocy, 205 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:04 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #23 (Assault on Splinterskull: First Strike - Hard) solo:
Gloves of Chill Touch, 285 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:05 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #24 (Assault on Splinterskull: First Strike - Hard) solo:
Ring of Listening +3, Potion of Resist Cold, 127 Gold Pieces, 10 Bone Bits

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 04:06 PM
On the bright side, I picked up two fragrant drowshoods on that First Strike run! :) (Collectibles worth far more than all the loot posted in this thread thus far.)

davidolson22
05-10-2012, 04:10 PM
I think an important part of this is defining what is fighter loot and what is wizard loot. Without that definition, any attempt to measure how much of each kind of loot you get is very subjective. So please define what kind of loot is which before proceeding. You might need a 3rd catagory of loot which is neither good for fighters or wizards.

SiliconScout
05-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Im not going to read through the whole bloody thread again, but if memory serves, you started throwing out insults long before others did. ....

I did and it appears most of of this has been edited out or the post outright deleted. Funny because I recall one where he lambasted a poster for doing exactly that (Vordax I think). Irony is delicious n'est pas?

Personally I take that as a good sign that we are nurturing a better community member here.

To the OP I sure hope this helps you and gives you the reassurance with whatever it is you need. These continual one liners bumping it though might get you in trouble with the Mods though. I think that if you had a single post with aggregate results it would help you and us identify the issues or lack thereof in the loot tables.

I know I didn't see the "randomness" until I had my big list of data down. I was sure that the attack on stormreach chain produced Major Mnemonic pots more often than any other quests but once I looked at the large sample size I saw that it really really didn't.

Mizzaroo
05-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Wrong. I was very civil until people started making direct personal insults against my character. I am still replying civilly and politely to those who do the same. You get what you give.

I see how it is. You don't want to actually read what I have to say and would rather just jump on the beat up on the "new" guy bandwagon, as if insulting me will somehow make you feel important and accomplished somehow.

At this point I have stopped replying with insults to insults, but am rather reporting each attack on my character that is made on this thread. At some point the scales will tip and something will give on that issue. This thread has almost become more about the trolls here than the loot in the game at this point. Fine, so be it. I will report them all (though I doubt there will be any effect, I'm sure such reports are queued up a mile long and forum staff no doubt have better things to do than slap childish trolls on the wrist...).

No, actually if you have been paying attention to my other posts youd note that I have read the entire thread, I just dont feel like wasting time doing it again. Sheesh. Pay more attention to your thread. Oh, and to clarify, I NEVER insulted you. Just posted an opinion based on observation.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #25 (Assault on Splinterskull: The Hobgoblin's Captives - Hard) solo:
+1 Cold Touch Handaxe, 228 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:20 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #26 (Assault on Splinterskull: The Hobgoblin's Captives - Hard) solo:
+1 Shocking Touch Heavy Crossbow, 20 +1 Adamantine Throwing Axes, 99 Gold Pieces

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:21 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #27 (Assault on Splinterskull: The Hobgoblin's Captives - Hard) solo:
+1 Shocking Touch Longsword, Potion of Mage Armor, 124 Gold Pieces, Scroll of Master's Touch, Scroll of Shield, 3 Greater Body Essences, Heroic Deeds

Note that low level scrolls are of little to no value at all (about 1/20th the value for low level weapons). Similarly for potions. Nor can either be deconstructed.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:21 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #28 (Assault on Splinterskull: The Hobgoblin's Captives - Hard) solo:
+1 Shocking Touch Greatsword, 277 Gold Pieces, Heroic Deeds

The pattern is clear.

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:23 PM
I suspect that the addition of Guild Renown rewards to chest loot has a role to play in the difference in loot that I see now versus what I observed in 2010.

Zachski
05-10-2012, 06:47 PM
He's still going at it?

DynaBonk
05-10-2012, 06:54 PM
Level 8 Wizard Chest Loot Record #29 (Bringin The Light - Elite - Prophecies of Khyber Farming) solo:
Minor Repair Lore Quarterstaff, 215 Gold Pieces

This is a warforged item. Not a wizard item. Yes, one is a race and the other is a class, but as stated, I will pay for adventure content gladly, but not for ways to make useless items potentially useful. Besides, you can't even give repair gear away. No one wants it.

http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

Almost halfway to a 90% confidence result. (n=68)

IWZincedge
05-10-2012, 07:08 PM
The conversation is this thread has gotten too hostile and too little on-topic.