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View Full Version : An idea to help fix Warforged...



Bacab
05-07-2012, 04:19 AM
I posted a variation of this in another thread...and since they are doing maintenance I figure to get the usual suspects to view this and can get some feed back. And possibly get enough views and responses that maybe a Dev may give it a look.

Some ideas to fix Warforged

Rather than giving them a DR-number...give them a DR-%. I am picturing something similar to the "Earth Stance" thing Monk has going, but obviously not quite that strong.
*5% at level 2
*5% at level 8 (total of 10% requires you to take WF CON level 1and WF Toughness level 2)
*5% at level 14 (total of 15% and requires you to take WF CON level 2 AND WF Toughness level 4)

If they make Healer's friend worth 10% at each upgrade and each upgrade is 1 AP...that would not be crippling. So by the time you hit level 15 or so...you would/could be at 90%.

With these upgrades...WF can spend some AP and they would be taking 85% of the physical dmg that everyone is taking and healing back 90% so they would be ok...but would still have that similar "feel" as they always had (not counting early 2006 when they had to buy their WF immunities lol)

They would now be great at fighting PHYSICAL monsters but still kinda lag behind against magical monsters (which is how constructs have always reacted somewhat).

The Damage Reduction % would STACK with the DR-number of a standard class DR (like Stalwart or Favored Soul Capstone or a Monk's Earth Stance). My main question...would the DR-% thing be way overpowered at level 20 on tank builds? I have yet to make a standard tank at level 20. Had a Soul Survivor for a long time, but that was a while ago. Also I have NEVER had a monk at higher than level 9.

With Warforged getting the racial PRE of Stalwart Defender, it is clear to me that they want WF to be tanks. I am picturing a WF Stalwart Defender/Kensei (since fighters would get enough feats for both) and having that DR-% would make them really nice on Physical bosses. Also a WF monk in Super Duper Earth Stance with the extra Racial DR-% would be a great tank and it would help it over come the Healing penalty.

As I mention before, the WF tank would be more heal-able, but not as good as a naked fleshy and certainly not as good as a Human or Helf with Healing Amp enhancements. But with the whole taking less damage thing they would be more viable.

Thoughts on these upgrade ideas?

MRMechMan
05-07-2012, 04:37 AM
WF are a top pick for: sorc, wizard, fvs, artificer (can reconstruct or heal with a 10/30% concop with 20% on ring)

WF are solid for:monk and cleric (darkmonk has shadowfade/earthstace/monk amp so OK, cleric can heal self, but aura is worse on WF than fleshie so not as good a choice as fvs)

WF are a mediocre choice for fighter and barbarian-with decent amp (really need Eclaw gloves 30% or pally PLs, even on my 10%/20% HF2 melee I feel like sp drain sometimes) they are playable.

WF are by far the worst race for bard, ranger, paladin, rogue-for any class that self heals via cure serious/critical wounds or scrolls, the healing amp penalty is absolutely crippling. For the same reason, human or halfelf are the best choice for these classes-when using heal spell it doesn't matter as it's near fullheal with good amp even on WF; for scrolls and cures, you can never have enough amp and WF really suffer.

Your suggestions help all WF, not the classes that need it. WF sorc/arti/fvs/archmages are ALREADY among the most powerful race/class combinations out there, and they benefit from this too...they DO NOT need to be made more powerful. A WF sorc/fvs/AM/arti is already pretty close to godmode.

In fact, the prereqs of conII and toughness IV are probably EASIEST on a WF fvs/sorc...melee AP is generally tighter I've found.

Going from 2/4/6 AP and 15/5/5% to 1/1/1 AP and 10/10/10% is probably a bit much too. Maybe 1/2/4 and 10/10/10

You will probably get a lot of hate for even suggesting buff warforged. You will get people who /not sign this without reading a word of your post. There is some gimpy elf out there who died in a WF party and resents them for it :). But, the fact of the matter is that WF are the worst race for pally/bard/ranger/rogue, and fighter/barbarian too without a TON of amp gear. WF melee and specialists ABSOLUTELY need a buff. Find a way to make it more specific to the classes that need it and I'd sign it.

Bacab
05-07-2012, 04:41 AM
Maybe tie the Healing amp or DR% to Power Attack enhancements?

What would you suggest?

I do agree with what you are saying...

Also a WF Sorc or WIZ with DR% would just make it almost too easy to DoT tank.

Maybe tie the Healing Amp and DR% to TWF, ITWF, GTWF, THF, ITHF, GTHF?

MRMechMan
05-07-2012, 04:59 AM
I wouldn't tie the healing amp into anything-forcing fvs/clr to take PA enh or other combat feats would just be cruel.

For the % DR, maybe call it "Warforged armor upgrade" or something, and make it require 6/12/18 total levels in a melee class (ranger/fighter/barb/pally/monk/rogue at least, on the fence about bard-maybe if warchanter)

Or perhaps tie spell failure into it?

Armor of wood 2AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as cedar, giving you 5% physical damage resistance, +1 natural armor class and 10% arcane spell failure.
Armor of stone 4AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as granite, giving you 10% physical damage resistance, +2 natural armor class and 20% arcane spell failure.
Armor of metal 6AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as iron, giving you 15% physical damage resistance, +3 natural armor class and 30% arcane spell failure.

Make warchanter for bards reduce this spell failure to zero.

This would make melee WF AC tanks more viable without making them overpowered.

Bacab
05-07-2012, 05:15 AM
I wouldn't tie the healing amp into anything-forcing fvs/clr to take PA enh or other combat feats would just be cruel.

For the % DR, maybe call it "Warforged armor upgrade" or something, and make it require 6/12/18 total levels in a melee class (ranger/fighter/barb/pally/monk/rogue at least, on the fence about bard-maybe if warchanter)

Or perhaps tie spell failure into it?

Armor of wood 2AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as cedar, giving you 5% physical damage resistance, +1 natural armor class and 10% arcane spell failure.
Armor of stone 4AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as granite, giving you 10% physical damage resistance, +2 natural armor class and 20% arcane spell failure.
Armor of metal 6AP
Your martial training has left your exterior as hard as iron, giving you 15% physical damage resistance, +3 natural armor class and 30% arcane spell failure.

Make warchanter for bards reduce this spell failure to zero.

This would make melee WF AC tanks more viable without making them overpowered.

Kinda like having the Force/Reconstruction/Acid/Fire/whatever tied to WIZ or SORC or Arty?

Would you consider the +AC more/less fluff or maybe a way to slot Natural Armor in a different slot?

BTW I do like how this progresses. I do wonder if FVS could get the damage reduction thing...but I could see that being Over powered also.

Seems Healing amp at 10/10/10/10 is fair? As far as the AP costs, it has been speculated and somewhat confirmed that most racial APs will be of the 1/1/1/1 cost.

MRMechMan
05-07-2012, 05:30 AM
Kinda like having the Force/Reconstruction/Acid/Fire/whatever tied to WIZ or SORC or Arty?

Would you consider the +AC more/less fluff or maybe a way to slot Natural Armor in a different slot?

BTW I do like how this progresses. I do wonder if FVS could get the damage reduction thing...but I could see that being Over powered also.

Seems Healing amp at 10/10/10/10 is fair? As far as the AP costs, it has been speculated and somewhat confirmed that most racial APs will be of the 1/1/1/1 cost.

I would consider it payback for not giving my WF monk a +4 dodge item :D

But yea, it should stack...if it doesn't it's just like giving monks a +3 barkpot all the time...pretty useless.

4 teirs of 10% is too much...3 teirs of 10% puts them at 80% healing for 3AP, right now it is 75% for 12AP...so that would be a huge improvement just with 3 teirs. 4AP for 90% base healing is way too much IMO. 3 teirs of 10% at 1/2/3 or 4 is probably spot on...the current 15/5/5% at 2/4/6 is pretty awful and if it is kept the same with the enhancement change it will be very disappointing.

Fvs don't need anything. Even for WF. Human/Helf with free capstone heals are better than WF fvs but the fvs class as a whole is just fine, doesn't need any buffing. Giving anymore stacking % DR to shield mastery to a self healing class that has a DOT would be overkill. Likewise for cleric to a lesser degree.

Standal
05-07-2012, 05:58 AM
How about just allowing WF to reach 100% Heal Amp through AP? The problem WF have is that their current bonuses don't make up for the huge healing amp gap they have.

I'd recommend something in the neighborhood of 8 AP to get to 100% amp, but that may be too high or low. The key is to balance the advantages WF builds gain from being WF against the AP penalty to get to par with other races on heal amp.

Bacab
05-07-2012, 06:53 AM
One other thing to consider...

WF are supposedly getting Stalwart as a Racial Racial PRE...Only thing I dislike about this is the only class that seems to benefit from this is FVS the old standard 18FVS/2FTR build that DoT's stuff.

So would a static DR% help a lot, or be over-written?

Tshober
05-28-2012, 12:13 AM
/not signed

WF are already OP for many classes. The last thing we need is more WF buffing.