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View Full Version : Add the feat "Unarmed Strike"



Bacab
04-27-2012, 04:12 AM
Basically, you would get the monk animations with unarmed fighting.

You would get 1d6 for damage also.

Pretty simple...pretty self explanatory.

It would be pretty much classic 3.0 and 3.5 DnD.

I think a Frenzy Berserker punchy guy would be fun.

Antheal
04-27-2012, 05:33 AM
Don't Halflings get 1d3?

Diyon
04-27-2012, 06:00 AM
One problem: Unarmed fighting has an attack speed increase. Why wouldn't say, most rogues take this feat? (not to mention other builds) Even without the monk damage die, that speed increase is huge. Its the reason all monks for the most part don't use kamas or staffs. Edit: I don't mean the speed increase from higher bab from flurry either.

Calebro
04-27-2012, 06:49 AM
The Monk animations, attack speed, and increased damage dice are *not* a result of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Attack speed and animations are the result of Flurry of Blows. Increased damage dice are the result of a monk class ability called Unarmed Strike, which is different from the feat Improved Unarmed Strike which is available to anyone.
Ever notice what happens when you get encumbered and can no longer Flurry?
That's what Improved Unarmed Strike would be. In other words: Pointless.

Bacab
04-27-2012, 07:01 AM
Don't Halflings get 1d3?

Newp, not in DDO! They get all the goodies of being a Halfling but none of the drawbacks. Such as slower base speed and smaller damage dice. But yeah, Halfling should be 1 dice smaller.

Diyon
04-27-2012, 07:04 AM
The Monk animations, attack speed, and increased damage dice are *not* a result of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Attack speed and animations are the result of Flurry of Blows. Increased damage dice are the result of a monk class ability called Unarmed Strike, which is different from the feat Improved Unarmed Strike which is available to anyone.
Ever notice what happens when you get encumbered and can no longer Flurry?
That's what Improved Unarmed Strike would be. In other words: Pointless.

What I was meaning was that the animation monks get for unarmed fighting is faster. Regardless of where that is from, the speed I'm referring to is not applied on staffs and kamas (the speed increase from BaB+ from flurry does though).

Calebro
04-27-2012, 07:08 AM
What I was meaning was that the animation monks get for unarmed fighting is faster. Regardless of where that is from, the speed I'm referring to is not applied on staffs and kamas (the speed increase from BaB+ from flurry does though).

My response wasn't directed specifically at you, but was aimed more at the OP.

He said it would be pretty much classic 3.0 and 3.5, except it wouldn't. Taking IUS wouldn't allow Flurries or improved damage dice. I'm not saying it would be a terrible idea, but it certainly wouldn't be "classic" 3.0 and 3.5. In fact, it would be quite a significant deviation from it.

Diyon
04-27-2012, 07:20 AM
My response wasn't directed specifically at you, but was aimed more at the OP.

He said it would be pretty much classic 3.0 and 3.5, except it wouldn't. Taking IUS wouldn't allow Flurries or improved damage dice. I'm not saying it would be a terrible idea, but it certainly wouldn't be "classic" 3.0 and 3.5. In fact, it would be quite a significant deviation from it.

Ah, okay. Well, in any case, the point I was going at is that just giving a feat to get the same animation that monks get would possibly be a bit overwhelming, despite it not looking like much.

Bacab
04-27-2012, 07:28 AM
The Monk animations, attack speed, and increased damage dice are *not* a result of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Attack speed and animations are the result of Flurry of Blows. Increased damage dice are the result of a monk class ability called Unarmed Strike, which is different from the feat Improved Unarmed Strike which is available to anyone.
Ever notice what happens when you get encumbered and can no longer Flurry?
That's what Improved Unarmed Strike would be. In other words: Pointless.

Well actually, flurry of blows was poorly implemented in DDO.

Technically, Flurry of Blows would never be effected by TWF feats. A one legged monk would still get his full attacks in PnP DnD.

Also Flurry of Blows is supposed to bring a Monk up to a fighters attack roll. Also a monk *should* get the same attack speed with *any* weapon that he uses and is still a Ki weapon (Kama, Quarterstaff and in some books a Hand Axe).

What I was getting at; was a Barb or a Fighter or even a ROG should be able to take Unarmed Strike. Also in that vein, a Monk should have the same attack rate with Kama's and etc as they would with unarmed.

Oh and Improved Unarmed Strike is not available to anyone. I wish it was...hence this post. An Unarmed Barbarian could/should be an available build.

Bacab
04-27-2012, 07:33 AM
My response wasn't directed specifically at you, but was aimed more at the OP.

He said it would be pretty much classic 3.0 and 3.5, except it wouldn't. Taking IUS wouldn't allow Flurries or improved damage dice. I'm not saying it would be a terrible idea, but it certainly wouldn't be "classic" 3.0 and 3.5. In fact, it would be quite a significant deviation from it.

The "classic" feel does not really jive with DDO's style of unarmed. I can agree with this 100%.

Flurry of Blows gets a monk UP TO the speed of a TWF Fighter and or TWF Barb (any full BAB class).

This may help explain it...
http://www.3rdedition.org/agimimnon/viewer.asp?ID=31

Its kinda long though.

BTW a Monk should not have to take the TWF-line feats...but they also should not be getting those "bonus feats" either. So 6 inone hand and half dozen in the other.
Bottom line...DDO=/=PnP DnD

I guess everyone kinda has improved unarmed strike...since there are not attacks of opportunity and since unarmed does not only deal subdual dmg.

Diyon
04-27-2012, 07:42 AM
Well actually, flurry of blows was poorly implemented in DDO.

Technically, Flurry of Blows would never be effected by TWF feats. A one legged monk would still get his full attacks in PnP DnD.

Also Flurry of Blows is supposed to bring a Monk up to a fighters attack roll. Also a monk *should* get the same attack speed with *any* weapon that he uses and is still a Ki weapon (Kama, Quarterstaff and in some books a Hand Axe).

What I was getting at; was a Barb or a Fighter or even a ROG should be able to take Unarmed Strike. Also in that vein, a Monk should have the same attack rate with Kama's and etc as they would with unarmed.

Oh and Improved Unarmed Strike is not available to anyone. I wish it was...hence this post. An Unarmed Barbarian could/should be an available build.

Arg. Monks in 3.5e PnP can use flurry and TWF at the same time, they just have to take all the penalties. Flurry gives you extra attacks as part of a full round attack action. So does TWF. Neither are a specific action in and of them selves so they aren't exclusive. Its in the FAQ too.

Diyon
04-27-2012, 07:43 AM
BTW a Monk should not have to take the TWF-line feats...but they also should not be getting those "bonus feats" either. So 6 inone hand and half dozen in the other.
Bottom line...DDO=/=PnP DnD

Btw 3.5e monks get bonus feats (just not the exact same list).

Bacab
04-27-2012, 07:51 AM
Btw 3.5e monks get bonus feats (just not the exact same list).

Yeah, you are right. Forgot you had to choose Improved Grapple and things like that.

I guess the big problem is, they (DDO) kinda made Monk over-powered, and if you made those goodies available to other classes...it would be really broken.

Diyon
04-27-2012, 08:15 AM
Yeah, you are right. Forgot you had to choose Improved Grapple and things like that.

I guess the big problem is, they (DDO) kinda made Monk over-powered, and if you made those goodies available to other classes...it would be really broken.

Fair enough. Although also to be fair, monk was fairly underpowered in PnP. If they could give unarmed regular attack speed for other classes, then maybe that'd be okay (as in, not the higher than any other weapon speed that monks get now).

Bacab
04-27-2012, 08:25 AM
Fair enough. Although also to be fair, monk was fairly underpowered in PnP. If they could give unarmed regular attack speed for other classes, then maybe that'd be okay (as in, not the higher than any other weapon speed that monks get now).

Yeah this is exactly how I feel. I don't get why monks attack so fast now. Not even counting Windstance.

SiliconScout
04-27-2012, 04:11 PM
DPS creep.

If you don't give them the faster attack then you probably have to increase the damage die. Otherwise they can't keep up with other melees.

One day a mountain will fall and they will "reset" but until that day we are going to see things like this happen and the DPS creep will just continue it's exponential growth.

Bernaise
05-12-2012, 10:00 AM
I'd really like to create a viable Pugilist style fighter without having to wade through multi-class hoops and Monk clickies. Having a feat available to make this happen would be appreciated.