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geoffhanna
04-13-2012, 10:04 AM
This information results from an hour spent running around the Amrath battlefield on my assassin Child of Murder (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/child/) along with her hireling Heystack.

Overall everything seems the same. Combat seems the same, movement, sneaking, etc. Running the public instances seems unchanged. I also leveled and did not notice anything unusual in the leveling process. But I did come across some differences in the Battlefield.

I don't play Child very often, probably not at all since the combat changes went in two or three updates ago. It is possible that some of these behaviors are already known issues, or maybe even WAI. But they seem wrong to me.

Assassination success has changed
Assasination success is really rare. One time in ten at the most. Maybe my character needs an upgrade (I really haven't played her in awhile) but this seems much worse than before

Assasination animation timing is off
When an assassination works, the animation timing is off. I saw "Miss" then a hit with damage numbers and only then did the target die. Checking the combat log confirmed this, the Assassination attempt was resolved last, after all combat. I even had time for a whole other swing between the original killshot and the target death. I hope this doesn't mean I could have taken damage (or worse) from a target I had already killed?

Backing off no longer works
Formerly, one could attempt an assasination and quickly back out. The target and it's companions would blindly attack the area where the attempt occured but if you were quick enough, you could get out of that area and escape while remaining in sneak mode. That is no longer the case. On every single assassination attempt the target and it's companions unerringly knew where I was and went straight to me no matter what I did to evade them. Once I dropped off a cliff while still in sneak mode and they all had to go around stuff and down to get to me and yet they all did.

Bladestorms
Bladestorms in the Shavarath Battlefield are now seekers

Harried spam
Everytime I entered a combat my effects log showed this:


You benefit from your Harried
--- Penalty modifier to movement speed: +0


Inactive monsters cannot be targeted
There were trogs and casters at the Shrine to the High Council that were in inactive mode. Sneaking up on them didn't activate them. This made them completely invulnerable to sneak attack - nothing but a string of yellow "0"s result. Is this WAI? Because it completely invalidates the Assassin as a useful class.

Knockdown animation glitch
Getting knocked down by a bezikira often results in an animation glitch where you fall down, are suddenly standing again, and then are laying down again. This happened most often when fighting multiple bezikira, especially on the first time they knocked me down. Subsequent knockdowns tended to work properly

Ranged combat impeded by trivial geometry
This has already been reported but I want to chime in that I observed it also. Very low rises that did not formerly block archery now do.

Mysterious telekinesis
This only happened once, but I attempted to assassinate an orange-named trog guarding the Tower of Despair. I failed (of course) and immediately all of his companions unerringly mobbed me (of course), but suddenly there was a blur of motion and I was somewhere else entirely. Standing on top of the Tower entrance, somewhere I don't believe I could reach on purpose at all. I was still targetable and I could still range the trogs. It felt like an old-school beholder telekinesis, but no beholders nearby. Nothing on my equipment should have been able to do that either. Weird.

Rauven
04-13-2012, 12:23 PM
This information results from an hour spent running around the Amrath battlefield on my assassin Child of Murder (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/child/) along with her hireling Heystack.

Assassination success has changed
Assasination success is really rare. One time in ten at the most. Maybe my character needs an upgrade (I really haven't played her in awhile) but this seems much worse than before

The battlefield is not the best place to test assassinate, the Shavarath effect's +4 to saves makes many of those mobs harder to assassinate than epic mobs. Also, based on the character linked, your assassinate dc is 33, which is a little low to reliably work on Amrath mobs.


Assasination animation timing is off
When an assassination works, the animation timing is off. I saw "Miss" then a hit with damage numbers and only then did the target die. Checking the combat log confirmed this, the Assassination attempt was resolved last, after all combat. I even had time for a whole other swing between the original killshot and the target death. I hope this doesn't mean I could have taken damage (or worse) from a target I had already killed?

I have noticed this as well, assassinate is calculated after the attack rolls. On occasion I will miss on my main-hand attack but will hit and assassinate with my off-hand attack. Even more rare I've assassinated on a double-strike, allowing me to kill three mobs.


Backing off no longer works
Formerly, one could attempt an assasination and quickly back out. The target and it's companions would blindly attack the area where the attempt occured but if you were quick enough, you could get out of that area and escape while remaining in sneak mode. That is no longer the case. On every single assassination attempt the target and it's companions unerringly knew where I was and went straight to me no matter what I did to evade them. Once I dropped off a cliff while still in sneak mode and they all had to go around stuff and down to get to me and yet they all did.

Are you sure you weren't spotted. Generally if I succeed with an assassination attempt the surrounding mobs will search for me but not see me. If I fail then the mob I attempted to assassinate is now aware of my presence, starts attacking me and alerts his buddies.


Harried spam
Everytime I entered a combat my effects log showed this:


You benefit from your Harried
--- Penalty modifier to movement speed: +0


Just my personal opinion, the effects log is stupid and gets turned off immediately.


Bladestorms
Bladestorms in the Shavarath Battlefield are now seekers

Like that on live, been this way since the change to Shroud.


Inactive monsters cannot be targeted
There were trogs and casters at the Shrine to the High Council that were in inactive mode. Sneaking up on them didn't activate them. This made them completely invulnerable to sneak attack - nothing but a string of yellow "0"s result. Is this WAI? Because it completely invalidates the Assassin as a useful class.

Inactive mobs have always been that way, it's annoying. They're like that on live, try to lead the titan over to them or them to the titan.


Knockdown animation glitch
Getting knocked down by a bezikira often results in an animation glitch where you fall down, are suddenly standing again, and then are laying down again. This happened most often when fighting multiple bezikira, especially on the first time they knocked me down. Subsequent knockdowns tended to work properly

I have experienced this on a number of occasions. I believe it is simply lag and an inconsistency between where the client thinks you are and the server things you are. Same thing seems to happen with the titan stomp effect. He can't knock me over but one moment i'll be standing on the ground, next i'm in the air then i'm back where i was.


Ranged combat impeded by trivial geometry
This has already been reported but I want to chime in that I observed it also. Very low rises that did not formerly block archery now do.

Further proof that Turbine hates rangers.

geoffhanna
04-13-2012, 04:16 PM
So according to Rauven, these are WAI:


Backing off no longer works
Bladestorms


These are bugs but are also bugged on live:


Assasination animation timing is off
Harried spam
Inactive monsters cannot be targeted
Knockdown animation glitch


Leaving only these two as possibly new engine related:


Mysterious telekinesis
Ranged combat impeded by trivial geometry

Aeolwind
04-13-2012, 05:11 PM
So according to Rauven, these are WAI:


Backing off no longer works
Bladestorms


These are bugs but are also bugged on live:


Assasination animation timing is off
Harried spam
Inactive monsters cannot be targeted
Knockdown animation glitch


Leaving only these two as possibly new engine related:


Mysterious telekinesis
Ranged combat impeded by trivial geometry


I'm certain that I was able to range those same mobs at that shrine this life, I just TR'd or I'd go check on live.

Nibor
04-13-2012, 05:32 PM
I wouldn't classify Harried spam as a bug - it's just the effects log in general is very spammy. I shunt it to it's own window, in case I want to look at something...but in general I don't use it. I think once you're advanced enough as a user to turn it off/move it, you're probably advanced enough to not need it (most of the time).

geoffhanna
04-13-2012, 06:27 PM
I think a Harried message everytime you enter combat, especially one that shows a modifier of +0, is a bug. Even if it is in a pretty buggy place like Effects text.

Aeolwind
04-13-2012, 10:19 PM
I think a Harried message everytime you enter combat, especially one that shows a modifier of +0, is a bug. Even if it is in a pretty buggy place like Effects text.

Pretty sure it is a hidden value, same +0 shows up when you apply a move speed modifier like haste, etc. Most % based values, like striding, show up as +0 to keep us from seeing what the actual value is. Not sure why since we already know those visual values are inconsistent with their actual values.

Harried is most likely a debuff that affects the entire party, not just a member. Would take some testing to confirm. But essentially once that value reaches a certain threshold you see the green, yellow, orange, then red debuff icon appear. In that case, mobs don't actually get tougher, it is a debuff that makes you take more damage, reduces to hit, et al.

Jay203
04-13-2012, 10:59 PM
I think a Harried message everytime you enter combat, especially one that shows a modifier of +0, is a bug. Even if it is in a pretty buggy place like Effects text.

you don't need to enter combat to have that message pop up
any time a monster notice your presence the message for "You benefit from Harried..." pops up
expect to see a couple hundred of them in a single quest if there're a lot of mobs... =___=;;;

CanuckWisdom
04-14-2012, 12:28 PM
What you call 'backing off' not working, after an assassinate, I do not think is a spot check. I don't know if its WAI or not, but there is another thread on the topic and Ive experienced it myself. The mobs do not see you like they succeeded at a spot check, they follow your pathing though.

They do not: run to you like they see you.

They do: go everywhere you've been in stealth mode trying to find you. I.e. successful assasinate, rogue backs off and then proceeds to move in a pentagram pattern in an open room. The mobs will follow just behind you, turning everywhere you turned (even though your a ways ahead of them going in a different direction), and will themselves map out the pentagram. Stealth, seemingly unbroken stealth, does nothing at this point but delay a direct assault.

I havnt tested if you can still assassinate while they are following your 'mapping'.

bloodnose13
04-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Backing off no longer works
Formerly, one could attempt an assasination and quickly back out. The target and it's companions would blindly attack the area where the attempt occured but if you were quick enough, you could get out of that area and escape while remaining in sneak mode. That is no longer the case. On every single assassination attempt the target and it's companions unerringly knew where I was and went straight to me no matter what I did to evade them. Once I dropped off a cliff while still in sneak mode and they all had to go around stuff and down to get to me and yet they all did.


=-------------------------------------------------

Knockdown animation glitch
Getting knocked down by a bezikira often results in an animation glitch where you fall down, are suddenly standing again, and then are laying down again. This happened most often when fighting multiple bezikira, especially on the first time they knocked me down. Subsequent knockdowns tended to work properly
[/LIST]

to the first, yes it makes being assasin pretty hard looking at how long the cooldown is on assasinate, so even on successfull assasination you still have ot fight all friends of the target who know exactly where you are no matter what you do to break LOS.

and to second, i noticed it happens most often when you block while falling to ground, first there is played a normal falling animation and right after its corrected and replaced by blocking while laying on ground.

Kadran
04-14-2012, 02:00 PM
What you call 'backing off' not working, after an assassinate, I do not think is a spot check. I don't know if its WAI or not, but there is another thread on the topic and Ive experienced it myself. The mobs do not see you like they succeeded at a spot check, they follow your pathing though.

They do not: run to you like they see you.

They do: go everywhere you've been in stealth mode trying to find you. I.e. successful assasinate, rogue backs off and then proceeds to move in a pentagram pattern in an open room. The mobs will follow just behind you, turning everywhere you turned (even though your a ways ahead of them going in a different direction), and will themselves map out the pentagram. Stealth, seemingly unbroken stealth, does nothing at this point but delay a direct assault.

I havnt tested if you can still assassinate while they are following your 'mapping'.

Interesting. I don't have an assassin, nor any stealth charcter. However I do feel it should still be a viable method of playing. That said, is there any workaround at all? Maybe sneak far enough away, use an invis clicky and restealth? Or are they just homing missiles that automatically know where you are no matter what, period, end of discussion?

geoffhanna
04-14-2012, 04:04 PM
So a whole lot of people are confirming that the ability to assassinate and get away is broken.

And that it is not possible to activate and assassinate a monster while in sneak mode.

Considering how much of the end game is is invulnerable to sneak attack, I gotta ask: What is left that makes it worth taking assassin in the first place?

bloodnose13
04-14-2012, 04:41 PM
Considering how much of the end game is is invulnerable to sneak attack, I gotta ask: What is left that makes it worth taking assassin in the first place?

it depends on content you mean, but you can assasinate in most epics, just need high enough dc for it, and even without assasinate, assasin still has very high dps.