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Silken-Akira
04-04-2012, 06:16 AM
Since there were a lot of blogs about loot and how it is so fair/unfair, it made me think up something new to fuel the fires.

How about a enhancement for the rogues that gives them an advantege for loot.Like an automatic loot level enhancer or even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

Because let us be honest, that is what rogues do!

If any of you rogue lover people have other ideas let them hear.

EbbOnFire
04-04-2012, 10:31 AM
An enhancement line for rogues that adds to the level of loot for everyone in the party? Great! Like chest-blessing, but without the enormous feat cost. Just don't make it so the ability is spoiled if someone else opens the chest first. That's annoying.

An ability that lets a rogue steal loot from other players? What, are you high? Don't rogues have enough trouble getting into groups as it is? Why would I ever invite a rogue on a raid if I thought there was a chance I'd end up with less loot as a result?

HatsuharuZ
04-04-2012, 11:01 AM
How about a passive ability so that when a mob dies and drops a bag, the bag contains some money as well as a collectable. Doesn't matter who kills it.

xoowak
04-04-2012, 11:54 AM
even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

That may be the worst idea I've ever heard.

Mathermune
04-04-2012, 12:20 PM
How about an item that dispels freedom of movement in a four mile radius and constantly casts DC 52 grease while we're at it?

Maybe make it look like an unsuppressed ioun stone but then change how it works once you equip it and make it so you can't take it off.

It will net you the same popularity in PuG's

Realistic, possibly, but the grief it would cause would shatter mountains.

Pape_27
04-04-2012, 12:39 PM
<snip> or even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group <snip>

Because let us be honest, that is what rogues do!




No, that is not what rogues do. Rogues contribute to the party with dps, searching for and disarming traps, scouting enemies, etc.... not stealing items from someone elses loot list.

All in all its a bad idea - letting one class be able to pilfer from other players is just another way of asking for game sanctioned griefing.

Forgeborn
04-04-2012, 04:02 PM
-snip-

or even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

-snip

Right, if you want rogues to get banned from any quest/raid where any gear of value can drop, that would work. Why would anyone ever, for example, run VoD with a rogue if they know he's just gonna steal the tharne's goggles when they pop up, or hound when any shield that drops is stolen by one, or ToD, since any 'melee dps' rings will end up in the greedy rogue thief's pocket, sos for runes, no rogues either, they might be able/allowed to join some low level quests, but as soon as the gear/stuff starts getting some value, byebye rogues, hello artificers (with monk splash for evasion!) since those don't have that ability. It would work against rogues, well, I guess rogue only parties would be more common that way.

Also, rogues don't need any help at the moment, rangers/paladins can use a lot of love first.

Rogues: Melee/short ranged DPS, traps, stealth, lockpicking, those are the skills a rogue gets in DDO, thievery isn't one of them. There's a reason sleigh of hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/sleightOfHand.htm) wasn't added to DDO.

Teharahma
04-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Since there were a lot of blogs about loot and how it is so fair/unfair, it made me think up something new to fuel the fires.

How about a enhancement for the rogues that gives them an advantege for loot.Like an automatic loot level enhancer or even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

Because let us be honest, that is what rogues do!

If any of you rogue lover people have other ideas let them hear.

You don't play a lot of PvE MMO's do you ?

Havok.cry
04-04-2012, 04:42 PM
Why do people keep confusing rogues with theives?

Edit: now if you really want to have theiving in a game you need to make it so doing it instantly makes you hostile to them and the entire city. When you inevitably die the town gaurd destroys your body preventing even true res from working without a wish or miracle. The inventory of the theif goes to the victim then the character is deleted tobrepresent this permanently dead state. Just so its fair you know.

Jay203
04-04-2012, 04:51 PM
Why do people keep confusing rogues with theives?

because in their mind, rogue = thief

Havok.cry
04-04-2012, 04:56 PM
because in their mind, rogue = thief

Lol it was rhetorical

Mathermune
04-04-2012, 05:10 PM
Lol it was rhetorical

Rhetorical eh?

Because they both have five letters?

Jay203
04-04-2012, 05:17 PM
Lol it was rhetorical

but you know it's true~ :D:D

Havok.cry
04-04-2012, 05:20 PM
but you know it's true~ :D:D

Yeah, but I cant say what I think of those people without getting infractions so I'm sticking to my rhetorical story lol.

Uska
04-04-2012, 07:18 PM
Why do people keep confusing rogues with theives?

Edit: now if you really want to have theiving in a game you need to make it so doing it instantly makes you hostile to them and the entire city. When you inevitably die the town gaurd destroys your body preventing even true res from working without a wish or miracle. The inventory of the theif goes to the victim then the character is deleted tobrepresent this permanently dead state. Just so its fair you know.

Maybe because they use to be called thieves?

parowan
04-04-2012, 07:42 PM
One of the less well known facts of DDO is that the rogue skill boost actually applies to the /roll function.

Havok.cry
04-04-2012, 10:56 PM
Maybe because they use to be called thieves?

It changed for a reason, and long before 3.5 which this game takes its material from.

Zyerz
04-04-2012, 11:05 PM
even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

Would you want someone to steal your Bloodstone? Your Torc? That LDS you need to craft that double shard?

MsEricka
04-05-2012, 12:35 AM
If the rogue can steal from me, then Turbine better darn well make sure that I'm allowed to put a 2000hp lightning bolt/polar ray into their butt and they stay permadead.

It's only fair.

Silly idea.

/not signed

Dagolar
04-05-2012, 12:57 AM
Since there were a lot of blogs about loot and how it is so fair/unfair, it made me think up something new to fuel the fires.

How about a enhancement for the rogues that gives them an advantege for loot.Like an automatic loot level enhancer or even better the option to steal 1 item from someone in the group by having the liberty to switch with someone if they open the chest.

Because let us be honest, that is what rogues do!

If any of you rogue lover people have other ideas let them hear.

Add in the Courtier class, and give them the loot boost as a class feature. They can gain special abilities based off high diplomacy and haggle, and can summon bodyguards!

..actually, that sounds much cooler than it ought.

Dagolar
04-05-2012, 12:58 AM
One of the less well known facts of DDO is that the rogue skill boost actually applies to the /rolleyes function.

Fixed.

Dagolar
04-05-2012, 01:02 AM
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Guild_thief

Here. While I can't ever approve of the item-steal idea, if you're looking for a (prestige) class that works with loot boosts and the sort, the opening up of the Forgotten Realms setting gives us the opportunity to make it work.

Silken-Akira
04-05-2012, 03:06 AM
Well, this was indeed as fun as I imagined :). Fueling the fires did work a bit.
There were two things I wanted to achieve.

1. after reading another blog that was agin all loot drama, I was thinking how the rogue in a pnp group I was in always was trying to steal stuff from us and how fun that was. But what some players forget with ddo is that most of the time it isn't your local group of mates. And that most players all have personal goals. Actually that is why if my mates don't play I usually solo.--> succes

2.Since it was in the suggestion group I was hoping that it would also attract some rogue fans who would throw in a few good ideas. And actually the first reply was already a good one. an alteration of the loot stuff so it work for a party.--> suuces, although I think there is still space for more ideas, since rogue's are a bit a mix of everything mybe a few high level enhancements that would make them more usefull at high llevels for supporting the party in some more.

last idea as a suggestion is a seperate thread for those who can't stop ranting abgout loot.

parowan
04-05-2012, 10:03 AM
One of the less well known facts of DDO is that the rogue skill boost actually applies to the /rolleyes function.

Fixed.

Hey, how do you think rogues end up with claw sets, eSoS, and encrusted rings? It isn't just aggro that rogues steal ;)

Seriously though, the best suggestions along these lines are ones that've been made many times:

1) allow assassination in PvP;

2) give rogues the pickpocket skill - if they succeed on an NPC they get semi-random selection of collectibles & loot, (some rare drops being decent enough that they're worth farming) if they fail they get fined. Used on PCs they can only plunder plat, and the other player gets a notification if the rogue fails and the rogue can't try picking that PCs pocket again for a week. The victim makes a reflex check against the rogue's skill. Amount of plat plundered is function of skill level, with caps in place depending on the victim's level. And perhaps it shouldn't be allowed in Korthos!

Forgeborn
04-05-2012, 10:49 AM
Hey, how do you think rogues end up with claw sets, eSoS, and encrusted rings? It isn't just aggro that rogues steal ;)

Seriously though, the best suggestions along these lines are ones that've been made many times:

1) allow assassination in PvP;

2) give rogues the pickpocket skill - if they succeed on an NPC they get semi-random selection of collectibles & loot, (some rare drops being decent enough that they're worth farming) if they fail they get fined. Used on PCs they can only plunder plat, and the other player gets a notification if the rogue fails and the rogue can't try picking that PCs pocket again for a week. The victim makes a reflex check against the rogue's skill. Amount of plat plundered is function of skill level, with caps in place depending on the victim's level. And perhaps it shouldn't be allowed in Korthos!

to 1:
Since you can't hide from players, that would pretty much be useless, and it would be stopped by deathblock which most people will wear somewhere anyways.

to 2:
Rare drops only available to people that get this pickpocket idea, e.g. rogues, is something I'd hate to see, since it favors one class to much, even so much, that it excludes other people from even trying for it, unless they somehow splash rogues. At best, this should give small amounts of platinum ( ((1D20+open lock)-Target's DC) * 10 platinum = platinum stolen, is what I'd propose, of course capping npc's to a decent chunk of change, like level *500 platinum. Being caught I'd place a 'fine' of either 100*rogues level, or -5 to all stats for 60 minutes if you can't pay, which persists through zoning just like shipbuffs, but also persists through death))

Targetting players would be a big no-no to start with, but sleigh of hand, which is pretty much what you're proposing, goes against a spot check, not against a reflex save, which if they ever add it, should be kept like that, a skill is much easier to boost into the 70's then a save is after all, and that way people at least have a chance to notice it, other side, since it's isn't a save anymore, a natural 20 wouldn't automatically succeed. I'd use the same formula though, their 'DC' being their spot check in that case, to simulate them having hidden their gold/platinum good enough for you to not be able to get your hands on a large chunk of it, uncapped here.

skill I'd give a 600 second cooldown in public areas, 30 in quests, creatures/players pickpocketed become immune to pickpocket attempts from the same rogue for 1 week, and any repeated attempts will automatically alert the target by ingame mail or system message that [insert rogues name] tried to steal from them.

Yes, hefty penalties, you don't want this to be used on players, since if you fail, you can pretty much ruin your standing in that players eyes, which kinda goes against the whole spirit of a PvE MMO. (e.g. I wouldn't even allow you to target players with it)

again, rogues don't need help at the moment, they're good enough as is (unless you compare them to caster classes), rangers/paladins need help first.

just my $0,02

parowan
04-05-2012, 11:44 AM
You're right: spot instead of reflex.

But when I say "rare drops" I don't mean uber items. I'm talking things like lightning-split soarwoods or ritual anathemas, perhaps even a mystical plant if you're in meridia - the kind of stuff that would make it worthwhile to pickpocket npcs, but wouldn't be unbalancing. Just an alternative to loot farming the old-fashioned way.

I'm totally in favor of pickpocketing PCs - but the value would be low enough that it wouldn't be "damaging" to the victim. Maybe it's the rogue in me, but taking 10 plat or a string of prayer beads from your pocket would just be my version of /poke. Or does it make you nervous to think I might have another way to grief you besides unending nubish questions? :)

Alternatively, how about the opposite? Use the pickpocket skill to place lumps of coal in someone's inventory? Or a grenade lol

In a sense the PC application would be social, the NPC application would actually be useful - and it could open some interesting possibilities for quest mechanics.