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View Full Version : Positional Voice-Chat



EndingDoe
03-30-2012, 01:52 AM
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The Problem
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Currently voice-chat in DDO is channel-wide. Meaning: you push a button and everyone on the channel hears you talking. Simple and easy, but annoying when you just want to talk to a select few people or hear only the important parts of the chatter. This becomes a big problem in bigger parties, where the usual norm is to ban all voice-chat except for the leader.

My suggestion is that DDO would use a positional voice-chat. You push the button, everyone in a certain radius around you can hear you talk. The trick is that the closer you are, the higher the volume, and voice-chat is global for everyone by default. Benefits of this are:
1st. More natural. You want to talk to someone, you gotta face them. Want to ignore someone, move away.
2nd. More convinient. No need to group up to chat with someone. And no spamming those who don't care.
3rd. Improved atmosphere. You can actually hear people chatting in the towns now.

And lastly: I'm currently playing my 2nd TR in Korthos. The newbies do not know the game and I don't want to spam invites or blind-tells, nor wait for someone to notice the LFM. Being able to go to someone near the dungeon entrance and ask "Hey, wanna do this dungeon on elite together?" would really help.

I do not see any possible problems with this as long as this system is a complete replacement for the old. Technical implementation shouldn't be too difficult either, considering positional SFX and effects are already in place. The system would only need to periodically check for the distance between the players and adjust volume accordingly. A maximum cap in the number of voice-stream would be needed, of course, and having an option to mute SFX/music while chatting would be great too.

Thanks for reading.

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Discussed problems so far
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Q. "Can't be done, because this would cause a lot of lag."
A. The required calculations can be done at the client-side, so I don't see any reason why additional bandwidth would be required. Only the devs know, so no reason to talk about lag or technical limitations here.

Q. "Me and my friend want to keep on talking despite doing different things."
A. Either there is a button for broadcasting locally/globally, or this is simply an accepted limitation.

Q. "This would cause a lot of noise in a crowded area. I hate noise."
A. Voice-chat can be disabled. How fast the volume drops can be adjusted. Only way to know how it would work would be by testing it.

Q. "This would cause a lot of harassment."
A. Mute button already exists. All systems can be abused. At least positional voice-chat gives the option to move away from the person instead of forcing to mute him right-away.

MRH
03-30-2012, 02:25 AM
"The System " you speak of has a hard enough time registering all the damage taken and delt during fights n lag......... you want it to keep track of char distance and volume adjustments every time someone moves 1 foot ?

The proposed voice chat you speak of would be terrible ...... just like the positional voice chat in SL is terrible.

my vote is...

/not signed

EndingDoe
03-30-2012, 05:03 AM
You assume that there is going to be lag. I assume there isn't going to be any. The devs know better than that :)

Syllph
03-30-2012, 06:32 AM
Keep in mind that means if you get separated from the group for any reason, and then get swarmed by mobs that you cannot handle: no one can hear you scream.

porq
03-30-2012, 07:30 AM
Being in the same party to chat with friends doing separate dungeons or inviting a friend to chat in town would become impossible.

This would kill some social aspects to the game. Not a good idea.

RabidKoala
03-30-2012, 07:36 AM
this would work only if it was a thing you could toggle on/off for people that want to keep chat how it is

EndingDoe
03-30-2012, 07:49 AM
Being in the same party to chat with friends doing separate dungeons or inviting a friend to chat in town would become impossible.

This would kill some social aspects to the game. Not a good idea.
Suppose that's true, but I think the constant chatter in bigger groups and spam are a bigger problem. Today I was again politely reminded to **** by another party-member, who couldn't bear listening to what the rest of us were doing. Guess it would be the same in your groups too, if it's more than just you and him. And if it's just the two of you, does it really matter? You and your bud could just use some 3rd party voice-program :)

porq
03-30-2012, 07:52 AM
Suppose that's true, but I think the constant chatter in bigger groups and spam are a bigger problem. Today I was again politely reminded to **** by another party-member, who couldn't bear listening to what the rest of us were doing. Guess it would be the same in your groups too, if it's more than just you and him. And if it's just the two of you, does it really matter? You and your bud could just use some 3rd party voice-program :)

Rude much?

Why aren't you using a third party program and muting ddo if its its such a problem for you?

RabidKoala
03-30-2012, 07:54 AM
Solution: use /tell

BurnerD
03-30-2012, 08:21 AM
I don't agree with the positional concept, but it would be nice to have selectable chat so two group in titan for example could have separate conversations going while doing the different puzzles. Just make it like to PvP team flagging function.

gerardIII
03-30-2012, 08:25 AM
Currently voice-chat in DDO is channel-wide. Meaning: you push a button and everyone on the channel hears you talking. Simple and easy, but annoying when you just want to talk to a select few people or hear only the important parts of the chatter. This becomes a big problem in bigger parties, where the usual norm is to ban all voice-chat except for the leader.

My suggestion is that DDO would use a positional voice-chat. You push the button, everyone in a certain radius around you can hear you talk. The trick is that the closer you are, the higher the volume, and voice-chat is global for everyone by default. Benefits of this are:
1st. More natural. You want to talk to someone, you gotta face them. Want to ignore someone, move away.
2nd. More convinient. No need to group up to chat with someone. And no spamming those who don't care.
3rd. Improved atmosphere. You can actually hear people chatting in the towns now.

And lastly: I'm currently playing my 2nd TR in Korthos. The newbies do not know the game and I don't want to spam invites or blind-tells, nor wait for someone to notice the LFM. Being able to go to someone near the dungeon entrance and ask "Hey, wanna do this dungeon on elite together?" would really help.

I do not see any possible problems with this as long as this system is a complete replacement for the old. Technical implementation shouldn't be too difficult either, considering positional SFX and effects are already in place. The system would only need to periodically check for the distance between the players and adjust volume accordingly. A maximum cap in the number of voice-stream would be needed, of course, and having an option to mute SFX/music while chatting would be great too.

Thanks for reading.

If I were a Dev I would create a Korthos just for you so kids can chase you screaming over Voice Chat.

Gkar
03-30-2012, 08:27 AM
This becomes a big problem in bigger parties, where the usual norm is to ban all voice-chat except for the leader.

LOL, really? I don't think I've ever heard that command.



My suggestion is that DDO would use a positional voice-chat. You push the button, everyone in a certain radius around you can hear you talk. The trick is that the closer you are, the higher the volume, and voice-chat is global for everyone by default. Benefits of this are:
1st. More natural. You want to talk to someone, you gotta face them. Want to ignore someone, move away.
2nd. More convinient. No need to group up to chat with someone. And no spamming those who don't care.
3rd. Improved atmosphere. You can actually hear people chatting in the towns now.

Horrible idea. I don't want random town chatter. And I don't want to be unable to hear someone because "their back is turned" or they are at the other side of a raid map.

EndingDoe
03-30-2012, 08:47 AM
Rude much?

Why aren't you using a third party program and muting ddo if its its such a problem for you?
None at all, thanks. Not using TeamSpeak because I group with strangers and I can't ask them to log on TS channels. Even with buds it's an inconvinience, since all they want is to jump into the game.


but it would be nice to have selectable chat so two group in titan for example could have separate conversations going while doing the different puzzles
Can be done by creating a new chat channel and asking people to join in. But I can already promise that half of the people wouldn't bother. Been there, seen that, even in a half-decent guild.


I don't want random town chatter. And I don't want to be unable to hear someone because "their back is turned" or they are at the other side of a raid map.
Well, guess you are one of the guys who like to hear me talking then. Or not, if I'm in a town :p I can see why it could be irritating, but that's why there are the mute/leave channel options. I think the benefits here outweight the occasional pain of being separated from your partner.

danotmano1998
03-30-2012, 09:11 AM
<snip>


Neat concept!

I'd rather have them put individual volume sliders on party members, however.
My biggest complaint with the voice chat is the inevitable:

Turn everything in game down to .01, turn voice chat to 10.
Then expect to get your face blown off by some people's volume, and strain to hear other folks no matter how high your volume is.

Good times .;)

gerardIII
03-30-2012, 10:58 AM
Currently voice-chat in DDO is channel-wide. Meaning: you push a button and everyone on the channel hears you talking. Simple and easy, but annoying when you just want to talk to a select few people or hear only the important parts of the chatter. This becomes a big problem in bigger parties, where the usual norm is to ban all voice-chat except for the leader.

My suggestion is that DDO would use a positional voice-chat. You push the button, everyone in a certain radius around you can hear you talk. The trick is that the closer you are, the higher the volume, and voice-chat is global for everyone by default. Benefits of this are:
1st. More natural. You want to talk to someone, you gotta face them. Want to ignore someone, move away.
2nd. More convinient. No need to group up to chat with someone. And no spamming those who don't care.
3rd. Improved atmosphere. You can actually hear people chatting in the towns now.

And lastly: I'm currently playing my 2nd TR in Korthos. The newbies do not know the game and I don't want to spam invites or blind-tells, nor wait for someone to notice the LFM. Being able to go to someone near the dungeon entrance and ask "Hey, wanna do this dungeon on elite together?" would really help.

I do not see any possible problems with this as long as this system is a complete replacement for the old. Technical implementation shouldn't be too difficult either, considering positional SFX and effects are already in place. The system would only need to periodically check for the distance between the players and adjust volume accordingly. A maximum cap in the number of voice-stream would be needed, of course, and having an option to mute SFX/music while chatting would be great too.

Thanks for reading.

Or better ... replace Voice Chat by http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Telepathic_Bond

RabidKoala
03-30-2012, 11:03 AM
None at all, thanks. Not using TeamSpeak because I group with strangers and I can't ask them to log on TS channels. Even with buds it's an inconvinience, since all they want is to jump into the game.


Can be done by creating a new chat channel and asking people to join in. But I can already promise that half of the people wouldn't bother. Been there, seen that, even in a half-decent guild.


Well, guess you are one of the guys who like to hear me talking then. Or not, if I'm in a town :p I can see why it could be irritating, but that's why there are the mute/leave channel options. I think the benefits here outweight the occasional pain of being separated from your partner.

I don't think being seperated from the group happens so few times it's ocasional

redspecter23
03-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Or better ... replace Voice Chat by http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Telepathic_Bond

Agreed. Turbine, the voice chat system in game is... ok... but this telepathic bond tech would be better. Take some devs and put them on this project. The players will thank you later.

Galeria
03-30-2012, 11:15 AM
/not signed.

I'd love to be able to adjust the sound levels for specific people a'la Vent style, but I don't see how that could be worked into a random party-based voice chat.

It would be nice to be able to hear everyone on voice in Mabar... but then again, maybe it wouldn't. That's a lot of people to be talking.

Kenpai
03-30-2012, 01:28 PM
1) Everyone talking in a small/crowded area
2) People screaming into their mics
It has a massive potential for harassment, and limits how well you'd be able to communicate with your party. And in quests where you have to split your party, or if someone gets lost, it discourages using voice chat.

/not signed


If this does get implimented, I pray to Vulkoor, the Lord of the Blades, the Silver Flame and the Sovereign Host that 100 people band together and do nothing but follow the OP and scream random nonsense at him 24/7 whenever he decides to log in.

Silverwren
03-30-2012, 01:39 PM
Keep in mind that means if you get separated from the group for any reason, and then get swarmed by mobs that you cannot handle: no one can hear you scream.

Good point, but that would actually make it more realistic.

This doesn't sound like that bad an idea, but I'd bet it's completely UN-implementable, given the amount of lag that already exists. I could see this idea adding to the lag.

EndingDoe
03-30-2012, 11:27 PM
This doesn't sound like that bad an idea, but I'd bet it's completely UN-implementable, given the amount of lag that already exists. I could see this idea adding to the lag.
I imagine it can be done purely client-side, so no additional bandwidth required. Already every player can talk at the same time. Most simply don't. If making the system more popular would encourage people to use mic more often, I see that as a good thing. Like said before: only the devs know, so it's pointless to talk about technical limitations here.


It has a massive potential for harassment, and limits how well you'd be able to communicate with your party. And in quests where you have to split your party, or if someone gets lost, it discourages using voice chat.
Mute already exists. Good point about someone getting lost, but that rarely happens after the first run and can still be dealt with text. That's how it's done anyway, most of the time. I know I do, if only to make sure the fella gets the message. Not an obstacle, really.



It would be nice to be able to hear everyone on voice in Mabar... but then again, maybe it wouldn't. That's a lot of people to be talking.
No way of knowing if we never have the chance to try it. Test server exists for a reason and I'm sure the devs could use the experience gained there elsewhere too, if they haven't done this already. Would be interesting to know the results either way :) Plus, the range and volume-drop can always be adjusted to make it natural.

gerardIII
03-31-2012, 12:36 AM
1) Everyone talking in a small/crowded area
2) People screaming into their mics
It has a massive potential for harassment, and limits how well you'd be able to communicate with your party. And in quests where you have to split your party, or if someone gets lost, it discourages using voice chat.

/not signed


If this does get implimented, I pray to Vulkoor, the Lord of the Blades, the Silver Flame and the Sovereign Host that 100 people band together and do nothing but follow the OP and scream random nonsense at him 24/7 whenever he decides to log in.
I would definitely sign this.

If I were a Dev I would create a Korthos just for you so kids can chase you screaming over Voice Chat.



Good point, but that would actually make it more realistic.

This doesn't sound like that bad an idea, but I'd bet it's completely UN-implementable, given the amount of lag that already exists. I could see this idea adding to the lag.
Yes we have un-realistic i.e. magical stuff in D&D. Amazing is it not?

Or better ... replace Voice Chat by http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Telepathic_Bond

Zyerz
03-31-2012, 12:43 AM
/not signed

The voice chat fine as it is... Imagine trying to coordinate quest where the party is all scattered and doing specific actions, like VON 5. No one would know whats going on.

EndingDoe
04-01-2012, 06:35 AM
Thank you RapidKoala and GerardIII. I think you have already made your opinion very clear with a total of six posts. I edited my original post. Maybe we can get some fresh opinions next.


Imagine trying to coordinate quest where the party is all scattered and doing specific actions, like VON 5. No one would know whats going on.
So far I have never had a person in all three teams with a voice-chat. Always someone has typed it down: "b1/2/3 r", because it's clearer and shows in the log. Besides, how on Earth have people ever managed to do things with less-than-real-time communication even in real life? :p