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decease
03-24-2012, 12:49 AM
well... finally i find a team of four to do challenge, we enter a level 20 challenge.. due to the requirement of been separate..two of the party member die shortly due to lack of in combat healing..

not every build have self healing ability, especially ones such as heal bot, singing bard which are entirely design for teaming play.. so my suggestion is to make those challenge easier..

Kmnh
03-24-2012, 01:53 AM
well... finally i find a team of four to do challenge, we enter a level 20 challenge.. due to the requirement of been separate..two of the party member die shortly due to lack of in combat healing..

not every build have self healing ability, especially ones such as heal bot, singing bard which are entirely design for teaming play.. so my suggestion is to make those challenge easier..

There is no "requirement of being separate" on the challenges, actually they are designed to be soloable. Stick together! :)

decease
03-24-2012, 02:06 AM
There is no "requirement of being separate" on the challenges, actually they are designed to be soloable. Stick together! :)

really? but we are force to each guarding a shard machine, there are total of seven. three large and four small. plus the large one was guard by boss, which is kinda annoy to solo..

not sure how to do it without been separate.. we tried running back and forth but really hard to make there on time..

Kmnh
03-24-2012, 02:11 AM
really? but we are force to each guarding a shard machine, there are total of seven. three large and four small. plus the large one was guard by boss, which is kinda annoy to solo..

not sure how to do it without been separate.. we tried running back and forth but really hard to make there on time..

Put most of your party on one of the small extractors. That's the one you are upgrading.

Have someone who can self-heal activate the other 3. Reactivate them whenever they break.

The machines can be reactivated when they break, so there is no reason to defend all of them. If you keep an upgraded machine running for 5 minutes and the other 3 on that activate/break cycle, you get 400 shards and the completion.

You could get more materials per run by clearing and activating one large extractor, but that can be hard depending on your party.

decease
03-24-2012, 04:09 AM
Put most of your party on one of the small extractors. That's the one you are upgrading.

Have someone who can self-heal activate the other 3. Reactivate them whenever they break.

The machines can be reactivated when they break, so there is no reason to defend all of them. If you keep an upgraded machine running for 5 minutes and the other 3 on that activate/break cycle, you get 400 shards and the completion.

You could get more materials per run by clearing and activating one large extractor, but that can be hard depending on your party.

true but that way we will not have enough shard to active all large machine. which make it impossible to get five star

Flavilandile
03-24-2012, 07:12 AM
The guns are great to keep monsters away from the extractors too.

Go to the first extractor, activate it, put two guns there, go to next one rinse repeat.
for the large extractors it's a bit more tricky.

When an extractor gets broken by mob, go back there and repair it.

Challenges are soloable, and due to dungeon scaling they are better done either soloing or in a full party of 6 members. Any number in between will make them more dififcult.

Kmnh
03-24-2012, 07:21 AM
true but that way we will not have enough shard to active all large machine. which make it impossible to get five star

I have never seen a 5-star run in there, not even when running level 20 characters at the lowest level. The math doesn't seem to work.

balancetraveller
03-24-2012, 07:35 AM
* Find better/smarter team members

* Use better/smarter strategy

Choose one of the above if you are just aiming for the mats :D

If you are aiming for stars, that would be another story. They are deliberately designed to be TOUGH to be 6-stared. That, however, is not an equal statement of challenges being too tough to be completed.

Ap0k
03-24-2012, 07:51 AM
I have to agree with the above posters.

first: challenges are supposed to be challenging
second: if you fail with your current strategy, try a different one.

granted ive only done them in order to get mats and not stars/favor, i find the disruptor and the others not that hard.
we usually 3 or 4 man them. 1 person preferably with wings/abundant step/whatever air savant has takes small extractor one and two, 1 person on 3 and one on 4. Ive done lots of runs on my pure non UMD fighter.
We usually dont try using large extractors because for some reason we always end up with less mats going for them.
just make sure you have the small ones covered and upgrade them as soon as possible and get the disruptor skelli quick.
I use imp trip to great success on the undead that spawn. archer skellies just dont seem to ever get up again when i trip them.

and for the self healing...use pots...seriously

licho
03-24-2012, 07:57 AM
The word "challenge" is not just for giggles.
And im sure that someone has soloed this with all 5 star, and will come here to tell everyone about it (just give him a little time).

IMHO this actually challenge is ok, since even with you are gang of gimps you can just protect small extractors, and upgrade them. Building one cannon for each small can be a help as well.

Skip Big extractors, the mobs there are spawning more often, and reactivating cost alot.

shores11
03-24-2012, 08:48 AM
U-14 will have easy button option to click on quest entrance window. This easy button will automatically complete the quest, give XP, list the quests chests in order of progression (as if you actually ran the quest) for you to loot, give favor if needed and give you the end reward without having to bother with going to the quest giver.

Patience young padiwan...

Deathdefy
03-24-2012, 09:03 AM
U-14 will have easy button option to click on quest entrance window. This easy button will automatically complete the quest, give XP, list the quests chests in order of progression (as if you actually ran the quest) for you to loot, give favor if needed and give you the end reward without having to bother with going to the quest giver.

Patience young padiwan...

Literally no one has even 4 starred Disruptor or Short Cuts, group or solo - much less 5 or 6 starred that content.

In that context, asking to make this content easier is a reasonable request unworthy of 'easy button' accusations to me.

Jaid314
03-24-2012, 07:53 PM
i can't help but think that some of the people are missing the key element of the concept of "challenge" here.

it may shock you to discover that the challenges are supposed to be... *drum roll* ... a challenge! go figure.

if they are hard, then guess what: they're working! that's what the word "challenge" means. you don't hand a university math graduate a grade 1 math test to challenge them. nor even a grade 12, or a first-year university math test.

LrdSlvrhnd
03-25-2012, 02:00 AM
not every build have self healing ability, especially ones such as heal bot, singing bard which are entirely design for teaming play.. so my suggestion is to make those challenge easier..

I'm just trying to figure this out. The heal bot singing bard doesn't have self healing? What, are you WF with that silly WF 'no more divine healing for me!" feat?

decease
03-25-2012, 02:30 AM
I'm just trying to figure this out. The heal bot singing bard doesn't have self healing? What, are you WF with that silly WF 'no more divine healing for me!" feat?

XD god.. miss a few line in between. sorry was doing something else important while typing that =P

well it really was

not every build have healing ability, they couldn't last long alone without source of healing. and for those build that capable of decent healing may not be able to clear a wave of mob alone, especially heal bot cleric and singing bard. =p sorry




i can't help but think that some of the people are missing the key element of the concept of "challenge" here.

it may shock you to discover that the challenges are supposed to be... *drum roll* ... a challenge! go figure.

if they are hard, then guess what: they're working! that's what the word "challenge" means. you don't hand a university math graduate a grade 1 math test to challenge them. nor even a grade 12, or a first-year university math test.

well i don't mind challenge, if they made challenge rewarding better loot and favor it would make more sense. for now the the challenge hardly reward much loot nor favor.

oradafu
03-25-2012, 04:47 AM
Literally no one has even 4 starred Disruptor or Short Cuts, group or solo - much less 5 or 6 starred that content.

In that context, asking to make this content easier is a reasonable request unworthy of 'easy button' accusations to me.

This is statement is just too true. These challenges have been around for almost 5 months and no one has been able to get past 3 stars on these challenges. There is something that just doesn't seem to be working properly with these two challenges.

And for people who want proof that no one has done 4 stars on these challenges, you can see for yourself: http://my.ddo.com/leaderboard/challenges/

Kinerd
03-26-2012, 05:06 PM
I was confused until I read...
true but that way we will not have enough shard to active all large machine. which make it impossible to get five star...aha! 5 starring challenges is hard, and offers no ingredient reward over 1 starring. In some cases, pursuing stars works against a higher ingredient reward. Disruptor is one of these cases. If you must run Kobold Island (more on this later), ignore the stars completely.

Now, in a larger sense, Kobold Island challenges are just out of whack. Short Cuts is literally impossible to 5 star. I do not use the word "literally" lightly. This is a statement of mathematical fact. Disruptor is prohibitively difficult to 5 star. The (somewhat skeptical) solution is to not bother with them at all. Doing any other challenge and trading ingredients down the line will return you more experience per time, ingredients per time, and happiness.

shores11
03-27-2012, 08:44 AM
Literally no one has even 4 starred Disruptor or Short Cuts, group or solo - much less 5 or 6 starred that content.

In that context, asking to make this content easier is a reasonable request unworthy of 'easy button' accusations to me.

The real question is if the quest/challenge has been solvable by most party(s) that run it. The fact that the minority of people fail the quest and by his own admission is running it harder than it needs to be means that it is a simple adjustment of tactics that is needed.

I have been in many quests/challenges where the only thing needed was to adjust tactics to win. Even in the parties I am in some of the players will complain about the difficulty and how Turbine is so unfair and even may post on these forums. I and a few others have calmed them down and said this is how you beat this quest you can't solve all quests/challenges with the same tactics

Maybe it is me but the OP post did say "make the challenge easier" that did not come from me. So maybe a suggested tactic for you might be to read & UNDERSTAND what your reading.


From deceased:
well... finally i find a team of four to do challenge, we enter a level 20 challenge.. due to the requirement of been separate..two of the party member die shortly due to lack of in combat healing..

not every build have self healing ability, especially ones such as heal bot, singing bard which are entirely design for teaming play.. so my suggestion is to make those challenge easier..

shores11
03-27-2012, 08:49 AM
This is statement is just too true. These challenges have been around for almost 5 months and no one has been able to get past 3 stars on these challenges. There is something that just doesn't seem to be working properly with these two challenges.

And for people who want proof that no one has done 4 stars on these challenges, you can see for yourself: http://my.ddo.com/leaderboard/challenges/

According to your link there have been people 4 star disruptor both on Thenalis & Wayfinder, ooops.

Infant
03-27-2012, 09:00 AM
and singing bard. =p sorry


Unless you are running Disruptor, a singing bard can easily handle one extractor by simply keeping everything fascinated and scroll-reconning if needed. Actually, you can maintain two extractors this way. In Disruptor, you can do the same if you have MotD ehancement. Otherwise yes, it's difficult.

Other party members without self-healing can use an invis hire to stay alive -- should be quite doable this way since the mobs auto-aggro on the extractor.

Infant

Deathdefy
03-27-2012, 09:26 AM
Maybe it is me but the OP post did say "[COLOR="Orange"]make the challenge easier" that did not come from me. So maybe a suggested tactic for you might be to read & UNDERSTAND what your reading.


I concede the OP isn't talking about nerfing the difficulty of the higher stars and is saying that the challenges on Kobold Island generally need to be easier.

That said,
-the OP alluded to the ridiculous scaling mechanism that needs to be looked at
-stars 4 - 5 on Shortcuts have never been achieved
-and stars 4 - 5 on The Disruptor need to be looked at.

For that reason, trivializing any complaints about Kobold Island with 'easy button' cries bother me since it really needs looking at. Although this post isn't 'on point' with everything that needs changing in these challenges, the OP has a valid point with respect to the scaling mechanism (4 people is already getting to the 'disproportionately difficult compared with the rest of the game if you're not geared' point) that does need review, and won't create an 'easy button'.

The substance of my and others' complaints - that the stars achievable through good gameplay and maxxing out extraction rates are impossible - remains despite the factoid that now a few people have used the 5 required turret requisitions in The Disruptor to achieve 4 stars.

oradafu
04-02-2012, 03:30 AM
According to your link there have been people 4 star disruptor both on Thenalis & Wayfinder, ooops.

Actually no one on Wayfinder has 4 starred it. (So should that be an oops oops?) It appears that only 4 people on Thenalis have scored 4 stars, most likely in the same run since they have the exact same score.

Anyway, I think Deathdefy's post above this one pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

Alrik_Fassbauer
04-02-2012, 05:09 AM
I tend to believe that the Challenges being that hard is or might be very likely a direct result of some people bickering that Raids were too easy now.

Edit : This reply of mine is somewhat connected to it, I think : http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4387627&postcount=9

Kinerd
04-02-2012, 04:32 PM
I tend to believe that the Challenges being that hard is or might be very likely a direct result of some people bickering that Raids were too easy now.

Edit : This reply of mine is somewhat connected to it, I think : http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4387627&postcount=9The thing is, the Challenges aren't hard. Getting a specific number of stars in a specific challenge is impossible, while getting that same number of stars in a different challenge is easy, and in yet another challenge it's pretty difficult. Certainly setting an impossible condition wasn't intentional, but even putting that aside, it's hard to believe the wildly divergent levels of difficulty, XP/time, rewards/time were intentional.

It's comforting to believe that there is a grand design or overarching vision behind the various changes to DDO, but I just can't see any reason to do so. I don't think the developers took a minority's complaints about raid ease into account, because I don't think they took anything into account. This shouldn't be interpreted as a criticism, or at least not a severe one, I just think the best explanation is they just don't care.

shores11
04-18-2012, 07:32 PM
Actually no one on Wayfinder has 4 starred it. (So should that be an oops oops?) It appears that only 4 people on Thenalis have scored 4 stars, most likely in the same run since they have the exact same score.

Anyway, I think Deathdefy's post above this one pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

Should your oops be an oops oops oops because your wrong. On Wayfinder 4 people have 4 starred "The Disruptor" and 2 people have 4 starred "Short Cuts".

oradafu
04-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Should your oops be an oops oops oops because your wrong. On Wayfinder 4 people have 4 starred "The Disruptor" and 2 people have 4 starred "Short Cuts".

Please tell me at what level people on Wayfinder have 4 starred The Disruptor. As of this posting the highest anyone has gotten on Wayfinder for these Challenges is:
* Level 8 - 2 stars
* Level 9 - 2 stars
* Level 10 - 3 stars (only 1 person)
* Level 11 - 3 stars (only 2 people)
* Level 12 - 2 stars
* Level 13 - 3 stars (only 5 people)
* Level 14 - 2 stars
* Level 15 - 2 stars
* Level 16 - 2 stars
* Level 17 - 2 stars
* Level 18 - 3 stars (only 2 people)
* Level 19 - 2 stars
* Level 20 - 3 stars (only 4 people)
* Level 21 - 2 stars
* Level 22 - 0
* Level 23 - 0
* Level 24 - 0
* Level 25 - 0

SO please tell me at which level on Wayfinder someone has 4 starred. Because I count 14 different people who have 3 starred it, but not a single person has 4 starred it on Wayfinder.

Xynot2
04-19-2012, 04:21 PM
Dont sweat it- when people stop playing it and telling other people that it isnt worth it to buy it, it will get easier so that they can sell it. You are consuming a product from a supplier. Think in those terms.