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Blank_Zero
03-07-2012, 04:13 PM
So my girlfriend has begrudgingly agreed to try out DDO with me! Hooray!

Here's the thing. She has a rolled a cleric. Something which I have never played ever.

She is completely F2P, so it is a 28 point Human. 14 STR, 16 CON, 10 INT, 16 WIS. CHA and DEX dumped.

Any advice? I'll probably be TRing my main to run with her a bit and/or rolling up a new toon to run with her.

Thanks in Advance!

PS, no she doesn't have monk yet.

morticianjohn
03-07-2012, 04:32 PM
as long as you are helping her with build and enhancements then I'm sure you will have no problems. You seem to have plenty of experience in the game and even if you haven't played cleric I'm sure that you will be fine. Cleric is one of the easiest, and most fun classes to start the game so don't worry too much.

unbongwah
03-07-2012, 04:45 PM
Check out sirgog's cleric build catalog (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223253). Hasn't been updated in a long time, so some of it's obsolete, but still some useful info in there.

sirgog
03-07-2012, 04:48 PM
Check out sirgog's cleric build catalog (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223253). Hasn't been updated in a long time, so some of it's obsolete, but still some useful info in there.

Yeah - I'd pass on that guide now. It is very obsolete.

unbongwah
03-07-2012, 04:59 PM
OK, when the author tells you not to use it, it must be past its prime. :cool: But has anyone written a better, more recent cleric guide? If so, I haven't found it yet.

axel15810
03-07-2012, 05:11 PM
My favorite class is divines. I have a 19/1 melee cleric and a caster cleric I'm working on now. Both 28 point, I'm also almost all F2P (plus vale and reavers). From the allocation I'm assuming she's going melee cleric. I guess it's too late to change it but I would dump INT, it's essentially useless for a cleric. Skill points really don't help you anyway. If this is a melee cleric put those points in STR. If it's a caster focused cleric max out wis.

These are the best tips I can give, some of these took me a while to figure out -

-Don't use devotion items, carry and constantly use superior ardor clickies to boost healing spells.
-always have at least 2 healing spells in your hotbar so you can heal in between spell cool downs. I always have hot bar spaces 2-4 devoted to my 2 strongest group heals and my strongest individual heal.
- At low levels boost melees with bulls strength and squishy members with bears endurance.
-Take the right enhancements and empower healing feat so you can get radiant servant 1 at level 6. And then later radiant servant 2 at level 12. Bursts and Aura are amazing and make your cleric much much better.
-Always carry plenty of healing wands (and then scrolls 2nd half of game) to save SP and to backup heal if SP runs out. Use them out of combat to save SP and to top peoples HP off. Try to never use individual heals outside of combat unless you know you won't run out of SP.
-For melee cleric definite feats to take IMO are toughness, empower healing, maximize, quicken, power attack, improved crit slash. The rest are up to you depending on preference. Some good ones to consider are heighten, THF, mental toughness, greater THF, spell pen 1 and 2, improved mental toughness.
-Invest skill points into balance and concentration. Jump can be nice too.
- Haste pots are really good if you can afford them, clerics are frustratingly slow. If not just always have your best strider boots on.
- IMO about 85% of divine spells are not useful. Use blade barrier, greater command, soundburst for crowd control. Use divine punishment for red names and bosses. Cometfall can be useful for casters and enemies with low evasion. If you have some decent spell penetration destruction and implosion are useful too although you won't be as good as pale masters so I usually don't use insta death spells for my melee cleric. Why waste the SP killing individual monsters when you can melee right? That's about all the offensive spells I use.
- Try and get a high level crafter to craft you a superior brilliance item to boost divine punishment damage
- Use divine power and divine favor when meleeing
- Palemasters can be healed with harm when in undead form

I could go on but this is getting long so ill stop for now :)

sirgog
03-07-2012, 05:20 PM
My favorite class is divines. I have a 19/1 melee cleric and a caster cleric I'm working on now. Both 28 point, I'm also almost all F2P (plus vale and reavers). From the allocation I'm assuming she's going melee cleric. I guess it's too late to change it but I would dump INT, it's essentially useless for a cleric. Skill points really don't help you anyway. If this is a melee cleric put those points in STR. If it's a caster focused cleric max out wis.

These are the best tips I can give, some of these took me a while to figure out -

-Don't use devotion items, carry and constantly use superior ardor clickies to boost healing spells.
-always have at least 2 healing spells in your hotbar so you can heal in between spell cool downs. I always have hot bar spaces 2-4 devoted to my 2 strongest group heals and my strongest individual heal.
- At low levels boost melees with bulls strength and squishy members with bears endurance.
-Take the right enhancements and empower healing feat so you can get radiant servant 1 at level 6. And then later radiant servant 2 at level 12. Bursts and Aura are amazing and make your cleric much much better.
-Always carry plenty of healing wands (and then scrolls 2nd half of game) to save SP and to backup heal is SP runs out. Use them out of combat to save SP and to top peoples HP off. Try to never use individual heals outside of combat unless you know you won't run out of SP.
-For melee cleric definite feats to take IMO are toughness, empower healing, maximize, quicken, power attack, improved crit slash. The rest are up to you depending on preference. Some good ones to consider are heighten, THF, mental toughness, greater THF, spell pen 1 and 2, improved mental toughness.
-Invest skill points into balance and concentration. Jump can be nice too.
- Haste pots are really good if you can afford them, clerics are frustratingly slow. If not just always have your best strider boots on.
- IMO about 85% of divine spells are not useful. Use blade barrier, greater command, soundburst for crowd control. Use divine punishment for red names and bosses. Cometfall can be useful for casters and enemies with low evasion. If you have some decent spell penetration destruction and implosion are useful too although you won't be as good as pale masters so I usually don't use insta death spells for my melee cleric. Why waste the SP killing individual monsters when you can melee right? That's about all the offensive spells I use.
- Try and get a high level crafter to craft you a superior brilliance item to boost divine punishment damage

On Ardor/Devotion, I see people say this all the time. It is flat out wrong.

In easy content - noone cares whether you are healing for ~460 (Sup Devotion 6) or ~500 (Sup Ard 6). Both do the job.
In hard content - you ARE GOING TO DIE sometimes. When you are raised, there is a very big difference between healing for ~460 (Sup Dev 6) and healing for ~360 (nothing because clickies don't persist through death). And spending 3 seconds not healing but instead swapping to a clicky, activating it, and then swapping back to your real gear is not going to be an option. (Yes this is how long it takes to do that swap, and you cannot cast any spells during that time).

It's not quite as bad if you have a full-time equipped clicky (say the Epic Dragon's Eye).

You absolutely should use both clickies and static items. Don't bother with static items under 40%, however.

axel15810
03-07-2012, 05:42 PM
On Ardor/Devotion, I see people say this all the time. It is flat out wrong.

In easy content - noone cares whether you are healing for ~460 (Sup Devotion 6) or ~500 (Sup Ard 6). Both do the job.
In hard content - you ARE GOING TO DIE sometimes. When you are raised, there is a very big difference between healing for ~460 (Sup Dev 6) and healing for ~360 (nothing because clickies don't persist through death). And spending 3 seconds not healing but instead swapping to a clicky, activating it, and then swapping back to your real gear is not going to be an option. (Yes this is how long it takes to do that swap, and you cannot cast any spells during that time).

It's not quite as bad if you have a full-time equipped clicky (say the Epic Dragon's Eye).

You absolutely should use both clickies and static items. Don't bother with static items under 40%, however.

Gotta disagree. That's extremely situation specific and would require you to always have the devotion item on which would take up a spot for something better. That's the biggest advantage an ardor item anyway, to save an item slot for something better. Plus a melee cleric always will need two hands for a greataxe or falchion so a devotion shield won't work anyway.

The party wiping or not wiping is almost never going to depend on a 2 second click after the cleric is raised after he/she dies in a middle of a mob. In that situation I'd just hit the tank with 2 quickened heals.

Pape_27
03-07-2012, 05:45 PM
some advice for a new cleric

- Make sure they know how to load spells
- Make sure the have spell components
- Get the highest potency or devotion item you can find
- Check the path to get Radiant Servant andget on it.
- Teach them how to use the hotbars - how to load spells on them, how to select a bar, how put multiple bars on the screen, how to cast, etc
- Teach them how to use scrolls and wands at an early level
- Let them know the different ways they can heal - ie select a name on the party list with a mouse click or by using the F keys
- and finally, if you are grouping with her, dont zerg ahead. Go at her pace and let her learn, both of you wil benefit.

Its basic game play, i know. I learned the hard way, and it took me long enough to learn i didnt have to click on the actual person to heal them; when i finally learned the "right way" things became a lot less fustrating.

(Oh yeah, tell her its okay if people die :D)

morticianjohn
03-07-2012, 05:57 PM
Gotta disagree. That's extremely situation specific and would require you to always have the devotion item on which would take up a spot for something better. That's the biggest advantage an ardor item anyway, to save an item slot for something better. Plus a melee cleric always will need two hands for a greataxe or falchion so a devotion shield won't work anyway.

The party wiping or not wiping is almost never going to depend on a 2 second click after the cleric is raised after he/she dies in a middle of a mob. That's a very specific situation. Even in that case the party wiping is more likely to hinge on the extra healing from an ardor item verses a devotion item before I die IMO.

Use both. It doesn't have to be a shield. The gloves in reavers are easy to get. Crafting allows you to get devotion items in a number of spots. Click the ardor as needed but I've found that there are frequently scenarios when I'm healing without ardor being active and for those cases a devotion or potency item will be a huge boon.

axel15810
03-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Use both. It doesn't have to be a shield. The gloves in reavers are easy to get. Crafting allows you to get devotion items in a number of spots. Click the ardor as needed but I've found that there are frequently scenarios when I'm healing without ardor being active and for those cases a devotion or potency item will be a huge boon.

I can see that. To each their own. I usually just carry around 4 clickies and always have them on when healing. I hate using up an item spot for devotion. My clerics are starved for item spots as it is but it might be better if he didn't have to use both hands for a greataxe.

MeliCat
03-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Best advice? Walk into that quest and clearly say "I'm new and learning to play. You may die if you are depending on heals from me"

After that it's entirely their own problem if they die. They have absolutely no grounds to give you grief.

Running a "healer" type is probably one of worst types to learn DDO as it's so stressful in pugs. However she (or you? Are you reading this? Hi if so :D ) will be playing with Smrti so do please just laugh each time he dies and we'll show you how to link soulstones.

Ie tip is : starting out may take a little pain but don't be hard on yourself and don't take lip from *anyone*

Blank_Zero
03-07-2012, 07:34 PM
Best advice? Walk into that quest and clearly say "I'm new and learning to play. You may die if you are depending on heals from me"

After that it's entirely their own problem if they die. They have absolutely no grounds to give you grief.

Running a "healer" type is probably one of worst types to learn DDO as it's so stressful in pugs. However she (or you? Are you reading this? Hi if so :D ) will be playing with Smrti so do please just laugh each time he dies and we'll show you how to link soulstones.

Ie tip is : starting out may take a little pain but don't be hard on yourself and don't take lip from *anyone*

Yes she read it Meli. And yes, she will probably laugh hysterically every time I die. Thanks. >.>

She wanted to play a Wizzy at first, but those aren't exactly "New Player Friendly". I'm sure when she gets the hang of this, she will be blowing passed me on a PM just like everyone else does. :)

Lalangamena
03-08-2012, 01:51 AM
So my girlfriend has begrudgingly agreed to try out DDO with me! Hooray!

Here's the thing. She has a rolled a cleric. Something which I have never played ever.

She is completely F2P, so it is a 28 point Human. 14 STR, 16 CON, 10 INT, 16 WIS. CHA and DEX dumped.

Any advice? I'll probably be TRing my main to run with her a bit and/or rolling up a new toon to run with her.

Thanks in Advance!

PS, no she doesn't have monk yet.

its OK for melee cleric, 1 level of fighter can help as wisdom is already low.
I believe she will regret dumping charisma, bursts are awesome and having -1 on cha is painful...
positive int on a human cleric is kind of overindulgence rather than necessity
as she will not be able to invest seriously in UMD anyway (low charisma...)

if she is still level 1, i would reroll for the following:

disclaimer:
the following is my opinion only, there is NO one way to build proper toon as long as you don't gimp it too much...

if she want melee cleric ( no offensive casting just buffs n heals)
human 28 build
str 14
dex 8
con 16
int 8
wis 14 ( if you plan eating tomes you can lower wisdom and raise str)
cha 14

first level take fighter for the martial weapons, then cleric
feats:
1: empower heal
1 human bonus: toughness
1 fighter bonus: power attack ( dont use it until she can cast divine power)
3: empower spell- to boost the burst
6: maximize spell- to boost the burst.
9: imp critical slashing.
12: quicken spell
15: ->whatever
18:-> whatever

skills: fighter level- 1 point in tumble, the rest in jump
cleric levels: max concentration the rest in balance.

caster build:
max wisdom
find the balance between con and charisma.

Nyxianne
03-08-2012, 02:44 AM
My first toon to make it above lvl 14 was a cleric, and here's the advice I got that helped me immensely!
- Keep your power/wizardry/magi/archmagi items as current as you can for your level - I don't know about anyone else, but I was always running out of sp! Same thing with potency items - a great way to boost boom for your buck
- Clerics don't actually have to wear full plate or carry a shield (even though quite a few do)
- Use Heal (when you get it) as opposed to the higher cure spells - it turns out more cost effective
- Don't be afraid of quicken, Cleric spells tend to take a while to cast
- Find a handy-dandy Melee to run with :)
- Tell people that this is your first toon - but brace yourself for loads of advice (whether it's welcome or not)

cjb1211
03-08-2012, 01:16 PM
One of my first toons was a cleric, and I love playing one, only make sure she does not get sucked into the vortex of her blue bar being the extension of everyone elses red bar.
She may get bored and frustrated very quickly if she spends all of her quests running behind the goupd and doing nothing but casting healing spells.

JOTMON
03-08-2012, 01:36 PM
Remember,

if you die its your fault.

if she dies its your fault.

she is the best cleric you have ever run with.

firemedium_jt
03-08-2012, 01:44 PM
its OK for melee cleric, 1 level of fighter can help as wisdom is already low.
I believe she will regret dumping charisma, bursts are awesome and having -1 on cha is painful...
positive int on a human cleric is kind of overindulgence rather than necessity
as she will not be able to invest seriously in UMD anyway (low charisma...)

if she is still level 1, i would reroll for the following:

disclaimer:
the following is my opinion only, there is NO one way to build proper toon as long as you don't gimp it too much...

if she want melee cleric ( no offensive casting just buffs n heals)
human 28 build
str 14
dex 8
con 16
int 8
wis 14 ( if you plan eating tomes you can lower wisdom and raise str)
cha 14

first level take fighter for the martial weapons, then cleric
feats:
1: empower heal
1 human bonus: toughness
1 fighter bonus: power attack ( dont use it until she can cast divine power)
3: empower spell- to boost the burst
6: maximize spell- to boost the burst.
9: imp critical slashing.
12: quicken spell
15: ->whatever
18:-> whatever

skills: fighter level- 1 point in tumble, the rest in jump
cleric levels: max concentration the rest in balance.

caster build:
max wisdom
find the balance between con and charisma.

Improved critical slash is not till BAB+8. For a Cleric even with FTR1 that is lvl12.

keen can make up for this till then.

I would swap CON and WIS if she lvl ups WIS. i would swap CON and STR if she lvl ups STR for melee. U can also take CHR08 and CON14 to max out WIS or STR. Enhancement Extra turning 1-2 for low CHR is still enough turns, and u can get turns with gear later too.

Now if she wanted Wizard then I would probably go the Wisdom offensive casting route with Spell focus or Spell Pen. Melee then STR with TWF or THF feats. Wisdom 16 with lvl ups in Wisdom is for a Generalist build that plans on doing all 3... offensive casting, healing and melee (melee being gear dependant). I think healing is always in the middle, and less melee= more offensive casting or vise verse.

Mubjon
03-11-2012, 05:20 PM
its OK for melee cleric, 1 level of fighter can help as wisdom is already low.
I believe she will regret dumping charisma, bursts are awesome and having -1 on cha is painful...
positive int on a human cleric is kind of overindulgence rather than necessity
as she will not be able to invest seriously in UMD anyway (low charisma...)

if she is still level 1, i would reroll for the following:

disclaimer:
the following is my opinion only, there is NO one way to build proper toon as long as you don't gimp it too much...

if she want melee cleric ( no offensive casting just buffs n heals)
human 28 build
str 14
dex 8
con 16
int 8
wis 14 ( if you plan eating tomes you can lower wisdom and raise str)
cha 14

first level take fighter for the martial weapons, then cleric
feats:
1: empower heal
1 human bonus: toughness
1 fighter bonus: power attack ( dont use it until she can cast divine power)
3: empower spell- to boost the burst
6: maximize spell- to boost the burst.
9: imp critical slashing.
12: quicken spell
15: ->whatever
18:-> whatever

skills: fighter level- 1 point in tumble, the rest in jump
cleric levels: max concentration the rest in balance.

caster build:
max wisdom
find the balance between con and charisma.


A few things with this advice.

1) You cannot take empower healing on a 1st level fighter. It is not available til you take your first cleric level
2) Power attack on a melee cleric is not even viable til around level 12 at minimum due to the to hit issues on harder content. Maybe level 9 if you use Divine power all the time and then that would make extend a nice feat so you are not casting it all the time.

The two empty feats could be Shield Mastery/kopesh or shield mastery/Spell Focus evocation for blade barriers (even with a low wisdom score these are a great source of damage)

GlorifyQuC
03-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Less strength, cap wisdom, healbot + evocation spells here and there.

Antheal
03-11-2012, 08:05 PM
People who go out of their way to get their characters into trouble are very low on your list of healing priorities.

Dematto
03-13-2012, 03:01 PM
At the very end of Korthos, after completing misery's peak?
You WANT the Archivist Necklace.
Ok. I'm being melodramatic. But seriously. As a new player, on any toon that has SP, I go for this item. Rechargeable SP Recovery is very convenient. Use it after buffing your mate, while the two of you are walking to the next series of horrific monsters. Besides, you won't get much else like this until level 18. Unless you luck in to a Ring of Spell Storing. In which case, I don't like you. :(

ShadowFlash
03-13-2012, 03:32 PM
I can see that. To each their own. I usually just carry around 4 clickies and always have them on when healing. I hate using up an item spot for devotion. My clerics are starved for item spots as it is but it might be better if he didn't have to use both hands for a greataxe.

Use Clickies...always...

Wrath of Sora Kell Set ASAP...best set available for a leveling Cleric....AND back-up potency always-on

ShadowFlash

firemedium_jt
03-13-2012, 05:46 PM
A few things with this advice.

1) You cannot take empower healing on a 1st level fighter. It is not available til you take your first cleric level
2) Power attack on a melee cleric is not even viable til around level 12 at minimum due to the to hit issues on harder content. Maybe level 9 if you use Divine power all the time and then that would make extend a nice feat so you are not casting it all the time.

The two empty feats could be Shield Mastery/kopesh or shield mastery/Spell Focus evocation for blade barriers (even with a low wisdom score these are a great source of damage)

2hd weapon with a STR14 base can hit just fine. I did it at low lvls. Yes I missed some but with keen falchions the damage with PA on was nice on critical hits. Mostly for trash.

Add in STR items, Divine Favor +1 to +2 and human versatility 2 is +3 to hit makes up for the -5 from PA. Then Divine power on items and don't forget rage too. It is some work, but the damage is nice on criticals and rivals any newbie pug melee. With one lvl of FTR u get FTR attack action also and can use human Versaitlity for damage instead, but FTR haste is much better i think and stacks with haste item as well.

Yep take the 1st lvl as a Cleric then the 2nd lvl is the first lvl as a FTR.

Taking STR14 WIS14 and CHR14 is gimp. I would prob dump CHR and raise STR or WIS.

If you stay pure cleric then you will need master's touch for the nice keen weapons like falchions, scimitars, rapiers or Kukri that have a nice critical range 15-20. Makes PA worth it. Pure human cleric using these weapons without master's touch and power attack on is nuts, but taking power attack for simple weapons and poor critical range is really nuts.

Mubjon
03-14-2012, 01:30 PM
2hd weapon with a STR14 base can hit just fine. I did it at low lvls. Yes I missed some but with keen falchions the damage with PA on was nice on critical hits. Mostly for trash.

Add in STR items, Divine Favor +1 to +2 and human versatility 2 is +3 to hit makes up for the -5 from PA. Then Divine power on items and don't forget rage too. It is some work, but the damage is nice on criticals and rivals any newbie pug melee. With one lvl of FTR u get FTR attack action also and can use human Versaitlity for damage instead, but FTR haste is much better i think and stacks with haste item as well.

Human versatility is what 20 seconds every minute or 2 minutes? Never timed it but I know that it is done and over with before it is off of timer and it lasts 20 seconds. Divine favor without extend is just as quick at lower levels. So yes you can for 20 seconds make up for a -5 with PA in an quest that is being ran on elite. Sorry, but it is not worthwhile running power attack on a divine before level 12 on hard or higher quest content. Having one more button to push every 1 minute takes away from the other things that a divine needs to be doing.

Besides there are other feats that are more important prior to level 12 for a divine

Humans

1) Toughness, Empower healing
3) empower
6) Maximize (need those two to help your bursts out at level 6)
9) shield mastery

Non-Human

1) Toughness
3) empower healing
6) maximize
9) empower
12) shield mastery


This would put PA on a cleric at 12 for a human and 15 for non-human imho. As you would need the meta feats for early leveling and then shield mastery so that you can mitigate a lot of damage. At those low levels a sound burst and well placed command are much better for the group than anything you might get from melee'ing. Especially if solo'ing a sound burst to get half of the group stunned and a command to sit the caster on their rumps will help out a lot.

1Soulless1
03-15-2012, 02:36 AM
Best advice? Walk into that quest and clearly say "I'm new and learning to play. You may die if you are depending on heals from me"

After that it's entirely their own problem if they die. They have absolutely no grounds to give you grief.

Running a "healer" type is probably one of worst types to learn DDO as it's so stressful in pugs. However she (or you? Are you reading this? Hi if so :D ) will be playing with Smrti so do please just laugh each time he dies and we'll show you how to link soulstones.

Ie tip is : starting out may take a little pain but don't be hard on yourself and don't take lip from *anyone*

As a brand new cleric player myself, I have to agree with all of this. I've only been playing for a while but I was lucky I have a friend whos been around since day one here and has shown me the way.

You are going to mess up, you are going to miss time stuff, you are going to get wiped out. It happens its your first toon. How many people here had a clue on their first toon here without someone to help them?

Just say you are new and getting the hang of the game, if people give your grief you just let them die and leave there Soul Stone in the quest. ;) That usually shuts them up.

Micki
03-15-2012, 05:25 AM
I made my first toon, a cleric, last summer and I've been leveling very slowly (only at lvl 15 now).

But yes, players who depend too much on you to keep them healed are imo stupid. :) And learning to play a cleric efficiently takes a bit of time (I'm only now starting to get the hang of it).

Best advice I can give you? Don't let others get you down. You can only do the best you can. And, I in particular, like parties to 1. be buffed before running off and 2. stay together. If someone runs off and gets themselves killed, it's not your problem. :) Also, as the party healer you get to make some demands (e.g. come to me for heals, don't have me run after you).

wax_on_wax_off
03-15-2012, 06:20 AM
I think most things are covered but I just wanted to specifically mention that 14+ charisma is very worthwhile on a cleric.

Level 1-5 the charisma let's you destroy most trash undead with turn undead if you buff appropriately with a sacred item, eagles splendour pot and the seek eternal rest spell. Possibly able to add other effects like hallowed through cannith crafting but not sure.

Level 6+ the charisma gives extra bursts which gives much more SP for buffing/offensive spells and lets you decimate undead if appropriately buffed (maximise, empower, empower healing, superior ardor V preferably). It also gives you another option for times when burst isn't appropriate. Burst has a smaller AoE than turn undead so sometimes hitting turn against spread out mobs - caster skeletons for instance - can get more and more important kills.

Finally, charisma opens up the DM enhancements which are quite good.

axel15810
03-17-2012, 09:12 AM
I think most things are covered but I just wanted to specifically mention that 14+ charisma is very worthwhile on a cleric.

Level 1-5 the charisma let's you destroy most trash undead with turn undead if you buff appropriately with a sacred item, eagles splendour pot and the seek eternal rest spell. Possibly able to add other effects like hallowed through cannith crafting but not sure.

Level 6+ the charisma gives extra bursts which gives much more SP for buffing/offensive spells and lets you decimate undead if appropriately buffed (maximise, empower, empower healing, superior ardor V preferably). It also gives you another option for times when burst isn't appropriate. Burst has a smaller AoE than turn undead so sometimes hitting turn against spread out mobs - caster skeletons for instance - can get more and more important kills.

Finally, charisma opens up the DM enhancements which are quite good.

I understand what you're saying and I'm probably in the minority here but I find more than 8 starting CHA to be a waste on a cleric unless you're going for a DV machine. Let me know if you other cleric folk disagree.

I have a 19/1 dwarf cleric fighter with 6 starting cha and he ran around with only 5 turns at one point while leveling...still only have 8 nowadays. During most of his leveling he had 6 turns and that was enough with good turn management. Also you can boost turns with enhancements, cha items and girdle of faith on mid levels. Let turns regen when running between rooms, waiting for traps to get disarmed, ect. Aura doesn't need to be up the entire quest. And after you get aura, bursts are rarely used (except on undead quests and ocassionally clearing neg levels when you need to save SP). Before getting aura I ran out of bursts before other clerics did but it wasn't a huge deal. Just slightly inconvenient. You can't rely on them to handle all the healing anyway. I had wands, scrolls and mana always backing up bursts. So overall I think the ability points are much better spent in CON, WIS and/or STR (if meleeing). Also most players I've talked to agree that DM is not worth it. You're better off just boosting STR.

I found turn undead pretty useless because on lvls 1-5 there really aren't any threatening undead mobs (There might be in early necro packs, I haven't played them). But I think turns are best used on divine healing before getting bursts.

The only time my turns have been an issue is when healing VoD raid. Depending on how good the other healer is I'll either have just enough turns to keep aura up the whole time or run out right at the end and have to drink an SP pot for a few additional mass cures.

But to each their own. A lot of clerics I know love to have lots of turns...I'd rather get an extra few points in other abilities.

Antheal
03-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Has anybody crunched the numbers on how much HP the average non-Ardor'd, Superior Devotion 6, Maximised & Empowered & Empower Healed burst would heal for at level 20?

I've yet to get a Cleric that high so I can't find out for myself.