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View Full Version : New airship amenities for lower lvls



Lagin
03-07-2012, 10:37 AM
It's a shame, the only way to get +2 resists & buffs between lvl 40 & 60 are from the store.

This needs to change.

The amount of points charged vs the length of the contract is just a flat out rip off for the Gold Seal amenities.

So I suggest Turbine gives people that dont have deep pockets a fair chance at having the same things lvl 60 & above guilds have.

To limit a guilds ability to utilize their ship to its fullest extent without buying something from the store sucks.

And I'm not being selfish here. I've talked to quite a few people that have started their own guilds lately, and that was the biggest concern they had for recruiting.
They essentially have to ram guild renown down the members throats to attain the holy grail lvl 60 for free amenities.

This whole system needs an overhaul.

Fomori
03-07-2012, 10:49 AM
tbh, I dont see the issue. There is no requirement that they purchase ship buffs from the store. Also, while the guild ship buffs are very nice they are by no means a requirement for completing content.

I think its a nice idea where if someone feels they NEED the buffs, then there is an option available to them.

Lastly, if people are feeling pressured to sprint to, what you call the "holy grail", then perhaps they need to downgrade the ship buffs so guilds are back to being for like minded individuals instead of simply to twink yourself out more.

Blackbird
03-07-2012, 11:14 AM
So, you want the same things that others worked to get....without working to get it?

danotmano1998
03-07-2012, 11:21 AM
So, you want the same things that others worked to get....without working to get it?

*ding*

That is pretty much just how I read it as well.
Ship buffs are awesome when you can get them.

OP, not to sound callous but....

You can either join a guild that has those neat buffs you are looking for,
or work your guild up to the point where you have access to them.

Buggss
03-07-2012, 11:26 AM
So, you want the same things that others worked to get....without working to get it?

You mean just like whenever someone joins a group and there's a conversation to find out who has the highest level ship to offer buffs? The group didn't work for that either but noone has a problem as long as the group benefits.

Go figure...

Silverwren
03-07-2012, 11:26 AM
They essentially have to ram guild renown down the members throats to attain the holy grail lvl 60 for free amenities.

Airship amenities are FREE after level 60? :eek:


This whole system needs an overhaul.

I'll grant you that. I'd link a few threads to prove it but there are far too many.

I can't really agree with your suggestion though. A level 10 guild should not get the same amenities as a level 62 guild. If you want them, you'll have to work for them and earn them. Besides, the rewards are so much sweeter when you earn them, rather than having them handed to you.

Buggss
03-07-2012, 11:34 AM
....Besides, the rewards are so much sweeter when you earn them, rather than having them handed to you.

Kinda like when someone offers you their ship buffs in a group? :D

Blackbird
03-07-2012, 12:03 PM
Kinda like when someone offers you their ship buffs in a group? :D

There is a big difference between someone being nice and sharing their ship buffs and having your own ship buffs. Just like if your buddy invites you over to watch the big game on his huge TV. That's not the same as having someone give you a big TV just because your friend has one. You can watch your TV anytime. You can only watch your friend's if he invites you over. Not even remotely the same. Sure, he may invite you a lot but still not the same.

madmaxhunter
03-07-2012, 12:14 PM
There is a big difference between someone being nice and sharing their ship buffs and having your own ship buffs. Just like if your buddy invites you over to watch the big game on his huge TV. That's not the same as having someone give you a big TV just because your friend has one. You can watch your TV anytime. You can only watch your friend's if he invites you over. Not even remotely the same. Sure, he may invite you a lot but still not the same.

Great analogy, sorry ferd, can't get on board with this one.

JOTMON
03-07-2012, 12:26 PM
House P Favor should be upgraded to include purchaseable buffs(at a premium price of course)
This would allow non-guilded players to access buffs currently only available on guild ships.

Did a mid-day post a while back and got no responses, so the post disappeared into the void...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4326558#post4326558

~snip~

I would like to see a revamp of the House P Buffs.

-------------Currently-----------
Noted - 75 Favor
(usually after all the level 5 and below are completed (FTP(21) +half of Tangleroot)
You can purchase 30-minute buffs from Fingalar D'Phiarlan in House Phiarlan. These spells are cast by a level 7 caster for spells that are influenced by caster level and remain active even if you enter a mission

Commended - 150 Favor
(almost all level 6 and below quests including packs Tangleroot(99), Phiarlan Carnival(48) and FTP(24)
You receive a trinket (Phiarlan Pendant of Time) that lets you cast "Warp Time" on yourself 1/rest. This can only be activated while in the city.

Honored - 400 Favor
Currently unachievable (max favor is 375).

-------------Change----------
Noted - 75 Favor
Change to 45min and add purchase all buffs available (at a premium.. of course)

Commended - 150 Favor
Add purchase ship buffs without being required to be in a guild. up to guild level 36 (20 resist and crew buffs)

Trusted - 300 Favor
(almost all level 10 and below.. requires at least part of Threnal currently(108) and balance of FTP(48)
Add purchase ship buffs without being required to be in a guild. (30 resist shrines)
Upgrade Pendant of time - teleport to ship (house P buffer if not guilded). (clickie 1x/rest & open area's only)

Honored - 400 Favor
(When it becomes available)
+2 stat buffs
Upgrade Pendant of time - return to last place the port to ship clickie was used from (clickie 1x/rest & open area's only).


--------------------------------------------------------

These buffs would come at a premium price making guild ship buffs significantly more cost effective, but would allow unguilded players to be able to get buffs currently unavailable without getting invited to someone's ship.

Buggss
03-07-2012, 03:59 PM
There is a big difference between someone being nice and sharing their ship buffs and having your own ship buffs. Just like if your buddy invites you over to watch the big game on his huge TV. That's not the same as having someone give you a big TV just because your friend has one. You can watch your TV anytime. You can only watch your friend's if he invites you over. Not even remotely the same. Sure, he may invite you a lot but still not the same.

Hmmmm, no not quite.

It's very rare to join a group and not be EXPECTED to make use of the highest member's guild ship buffs. Therefore the only major benefit I can see from very high level guilds is the prestige of gaining the level number (although there've been dodgy ways of getting there in the past) and the sheer size of the ship whilst none-guildies run round trying to find the buffs in the first place.

It's more like feeling free to invite yourself over to watch your mate's TV knowing you'd never be refused. So the buffs are sorta yours by proxy anyway.

Lagin
03-07-2012, 04:45 PM
I can't really agree with your suggestion though. A level 10 guild should not get the same amenities as a level 62 guild.

Not my point


So, you want the same things that others worked to get....without working to get it?


Great analogy, sorry ferd, can't get on board with this one.

The system needs an overhaul.

I'm not suggesting things get handed to them (we have enough of that in this game already)

My point is being forced to buy things from the store.

I have ZERO issues with having things scaled to guild level, in fact that's the proper way.

I have ZERO issues with getting buffs when ever I need them. But what about the newer guilds that don't have long time friends or a way to get + 2's on their ship?


Should the store be the only way to attain them is my point.

And it's not about earning or a free ride, that was never said by me.

Bowser_Koopa
03-07-2012, 05:31 PM
What exactly is your alternative you state there is a problem and provide no solution or even an attempt at a solution.

The amenities are in the store so you can get access to it prior to being the guild level to get it for plat that system works.

What you are saying is a level 22 guild wants a +5% xp shrine but isn't high enough level to get it from either the store or via in game currency but because they want it they should have access to it.

What is your alternative are you saying unrestricted +5% xp shrines should drop as random loot? You should be able to trade in 5k +5 rapiers and you get a unrestricted +5% xp shrine?

I just don't see your point here you want the buffs either you are in a guild that has them or you happen to get invited to a boat that does have them and is either paying for them via the ddo store or in game currency and that's the way it is.

edit: yes I misspelled probably in the title

Blackbird
03-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Hmmmm, no not quite.

It's very rare to join a group and not be EXPECTED to make use of the highest member's guild ship buffs. Therefore the only major benefit I can see from very high level guilds is the prestige of gaining the level number (although there've been dodgy ways of getting there in the past) and the sheer size of the ship whilst none-guildies run round trying to find the buffs in the first place.

It's more like feeling free to invite yourself over to watch your mate's TV knowing you'd never be refused. So the buffs are sorta yours by proxy anyway.

I have never been in a party where this has happened. I have been in parties where people have asked if they can get a ship invite (sometimes for buffs, sometimes for navigator) but I have NEVER been in a party where it was expected or where guild level was discussed in relation to buffs. And just because people ask for a ship invite doesn't mean I always send one. It depends a lot on if I know them, how they ask, and how I'm feeling right then. Never had anyone say anything.

jortann
03-07-2012, 07:25 PM
The problem is with the system. I can TR a toon 10 times before I get a guild up to level 60.

The guild system promotes large guilds. Get a guild with a bunch of renown farmers so you can level and have the nice stuff. I don't think that is the intent of the system... maybe it was.

But it makes it where you have to constantly recruit to level up a guild at any reasonable pace. I really don't think it should take 3+ years to get a guild up to level 60, but without lots of playtime or mass recruiting that is the reality.

MRH
03-07-2012, 07:31 PM
What exactly is your alternative you state there is a problem and provide no solution or even an attempt at a solution.


my solution as I stated in another thread would be ....

While us low level guilds are trying to get higher levels and able to use the higher / larger hookpoints , is to let us be able to put smalls in mediums or larges

smalls in small slots
smalls in medium slots
smalls in large slots

mediums in medium slots
medium in large slots

large only in large spots

this would let us have more out on our smallers ships till we can get the higher stuff...

Sidewaysgts86
03-08-2012, 03:13 AM
It's a shame, the only way to get +2 resists & buffs between lvl 40 & 60 are from the store.

This needs to change.


Sorry- I've read your posts, but I'm failing to grasp the logic of what you're coming from. Why is this a shame? Why must this change? Like others have pointed out- You dont *have* to buy them from the store, you only "have" to buy them from the store if you "want" them sooner than you would normally be allowed to if you acquired the contracts via plat.

biggin
03-08-2012, 07:16 AM
The problem is with the system. I can TR a toon 10 times before I get a guild up to level 60.

The guild system promotes large guilds. Get a guild with a bunch of renown farmers so you can level and have the nice stuff. I don't think that is the intent of the system... maybe it was.

But it makes it where you have to constantly recruit to level up a guild at any reasonable pace. I really don't think it should take 3+ years to get a guild up to level 60, but without lots of playtime or mass recruiting that is the reality.

Sorry, but you are wrong on this point. Look at every guild on Thelanis currently 100 (Eternal Infinity, DIV and Renowned).

They don't mass recruit.
They aren't large guilds.
I run plenty of raids and epics with them so it isn't as if the entire guild is just farming Irestone all day, everyday.

What they do have is solid membership with solid players who actually play the game. Go figure.

jortann
03-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Sorry, but you are wrong on this point. Look at every guild on Thelanis currently 100 (Eternal Infinity, DIV and Renowned).

They don't mass recruit.
They aren't large guilds.
I run plenty of raids and epics with them so it isn't as if the entire guild is just farming Irestone all day, everyday.

What they do have is solid membership with solid players who actually play the game. Go figure.

I think you missed the point where I said lots of playitme. I never mentioned farming for renown. It is possible to level with a small guild, with lots of playtime, but if you have 6 guys who play on average 2 hours a day it will take you a long, long, long time to level.

The problem is the amount of renown to level a guild. It is staggering. Which leads me to my point... if you want a high level guild you can't just play casually with some friends, you need to really, really work at it. Now, I think you should have to work at it.... all I am saying is that right now it is too much work. It takes the fun out of it and makes running a guild a little bit stressful.

Bowser_Koopa
03-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Overall there is no guild buff at any level that is going to make or break anything you do in any quest. Sure they make things easier I for one enjoy 30 resists at low levels but really all it does is make enemy casters and some traps a non factor and increase the zerg by a few minutes over all.

I could beat the same quests without said guild buffs in the same amount of time or heck even a couple minutes more without the buffs. The guild buffs are like every other thing in this game you grind for.

It's just another carrot you chase and considering at the beginning there was no renown gain for killing orange-purple named bosses there is more renown to be had now than there ever was before and it is more convenient to acquire than it was to begin with when you had to actually pick it up from mobs.

We all did fine before guild buffs just like we all did fine before 34 and 36 point builds and epic gear etc, it's simply one more thing that you can acquire to remove any chance that you will fail a quest or even be put at risk for dying and having to pay some plat to repair your things.

Being a casual player in a casual guild just means certain aspects of the game will remain as they were originally intended and you might die to a scorching ray or a lightening bolt where as the guy with guild level 60 most likely will not. So casually remember killing casters first is 95% of the time the right thing to do and play smarter not lazier due to guild buffs.

Vanquishedfo
03-08-2012, 10:10 AM
Sorry but joining a guild for anything other then social commraderie as some here suggest gives evidence to why ship buffs where a flawed concept. They exist in other games like City of Heroes without throwing game balance out the window. Why do they fail here so much? Its easy, they are based on power players playing. My super group on COX that I built myself faster then most 50 man groups can, has its max base empowerment states because I as a solo guy could ignore making it a big building in favor of focussing on what I needed personally.

They should make it so the smaller the ship and guild roster, the cheaper and earlier all things come. Being in a big guild should come with NO advantages in game play.

LOOON375
03-08-2012, 10:11 AM
My point is being forced to buy things from the store.

You are being forced, against your will, to purchase stuff from the store? Really?

All content in this game, up to and including epic, can be completed without ship buffs.

LOOON375
03-08-2012, 10:32 AM
The guild system promotes large guilds.

I really don't think it should take 3+ years to get a guild up to level 60, but without lots of playtime or mass recruiting that is the reality.

I am in a 3 account guild and we are about to hit level 58. And this is with modest play time. None of us are hardcore, power gamers.

My account has earned a little over half of our guild renown.

And our guild is about a year old.

Fomori
03-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Now, I think you should have to work at it.... all I am saying is that right now it is too much work. It takes the fun out of it and makes running a guild a little bit stressful.
This is not a bash post but... if you are getting stressed over the simple number next to you guild name then maybe you need a break for a bit.

From your post it seems that power gaming for the sake of power gaming is not why you play DDO, yet you let that aspect of it dominate your guild stance. Having a bigger ship with lots of buffs is cool but wouldnt it be that much sweeter if you stopped 'watching the pot boil' and just let the renown build up as it comes.

Memnir
03-09-2012, 03:22 AM
While I agree that the whole Buff Barge system should be overhauled - I also think it's become far to entrenched and accepted to be overhauled.


IMHO, Turbine missed the proverbial boat when it came to guild-space in this game. But, it's too far late to go back or change it in any fundamental way now.

LOOON375
03-09-2012, 12:19 PM
You are being forced, against your will, to purchase stuff from the store? Really?

All content in this game, up to and including epic, can be completed without ship buffs.I guess this was offensive to someone. Simply amazing.