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biggin
03-06-2012, 05:55 PM
I think it would be nice to have a caster training dummy for new arcanes/divines to practice targeting, aiming and swapping gear to find the most optimal setup for different spells.

Now, I know the arguement will be, "But Biggin, the PvP pit is full of dummies. Why do we need more?" I'll tell you why. Because it takes a week to wash the stench out of my clothes from those dirty PvPers, that's why.

Asketes
03-06-2012, 06:19 PM
I like this idea.

One alteration.

It would have to be in a special room (instance) of the ship where ALL damage spells are allowed to be cast that way we can see what each spell a) looks like b) what type of damage it does.

Rather than having HP, this dummy wouldn't actually die or give a buff. It's only purpose is to try out damage spells and see what they look like. The dummy would have ZERO resistances/protections and take normal damage, no evasion etc etc.

decease
03-06-2012, 07:50 PM
one thing.. damaging spell are not allowed in public area...

Memnir
03-06-2012, 08:51 PM
I like the idea, but as they said....
It would have to be in a special room (instance) of the ship where ALL damage spells are allowed to be cast that way we can see what each spell a) looks like b) what type of damage it does.
one thing.. damaging spell are not allowed in public area...
But, that's cool. We can work around that, if we really want to. (okay, the Devs could if they really wanted to - but anyways)
Back in the Sav. Invasion, most spells worked in the Marketplace. In fact that persisted until recently, if my memory serves. So, we add that feature back - but in the Portable Hole.

See, the PH is a place for mages - so it'd make sense for them to be able to cut loose with their spells in that location. Perhaps tweak the spells-allowable mechanic to include all spells, including AoEs. Add a back room to the PH - behind the bar, perhaps - that is kitted out with a half dozen or so Training Dummies, and allow spell casters to go nuts.


I think it'd be cool, anyways. :)

biggin
03-07-2012, 05:28 AM
All very good tweaks to the idea. Like Memnir said, we used to be able to cast offensive spells in the Marketplace. As a matter of fact, new players would have to jump in with a pack of people to not get their brains bashed in moving from house to house (hearing that devil 'zone-in' sound still makes me jumpy).

Legion has the largest available airship so I thought one of those inside rooms would work nicely. However the Portable Hole or even House P in the tavern area would be better ideas as obviously most new players wouldn't have ship access.

Shadow7375
03-07-2012, 05:39 AM
Yes, it would indeed be nice to be able to test out some spells.

Silverwren
03-07-2012, 07:48 AM
This idea has been brought up before......

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352951

and I think in one other thread that I can't find at the moment, and it definitely deserves to be brought up again.

Simply from the stand point of fairness we need a caster dummy. The dummy right now is strictly for melee types (unless the caster wants to wail away at it for 20 minutes). Casters have nothing to test their spell power against except for other toons in the PvP pits.

There should be an area somewhere (not the Portable Hole. I'll get to why in a minute) where offensive spells can be cast against dummies, and perhaps the dummies should come in varying degrees of difficulty so that DC and Spell Pen can be tested. They should all grant a buff, nothing earth shattering, maybe stacking +1 to DC or a few extra SP.

As to the point that spells can't be cast in public areas? No problem. The dummies are contained in a side room in an instance of their own.

Why not the Portable Hole? The only way to get there is to teleport, and that's a level 5 spell. It would mean that lower level casters would have to wait until they get to that level to use the test dummies, defeating the purpose of them entirely.

Uska
03-07-2012, 08:16 AM
I like this idea.

One alteration.

It would have to be in a special room (instance) of the ship where ALL damage spells are allowed to be cast that way we can see what each spell a) looks like b) what type of damage it does.

Rather than having HP, this dummy wouldn't actually die or give a buff. It's only purpose is to try out damage spells and see what they look like. The dummy would have ZERO resistances/protections and take normal damage, no evasion etc etc.

This I like, casters dont need buffing but a test dummy would be very useful

Alrik_Fassbauer
03-07-2012, 10:48 AM
one thing.. damaging spell are not allowed in public area...

It could be a special "training house", similar to a guild ship ...

danotmano1998
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
This I like, casters dont need buffing but a test dummy would be very useful

agreed.

/Signed!!

It would be very worthwhile to be able to swap your spells at your leisure and do some test fires/statistics analysis stuff on a dummy.

Make the dummy unkillable, just show us the damages done etc..

Krago
03-08-2012, 11:35 AM
I doubt this will happen. Because then we can point out what other bugs exist with effects not stacking like they should.

/sarcasm off

A novel idea.

Asketes
03-08-2012, 12:09 PM
This I like, casters dont need buffing but a test dummy would be very useful


I like the idea, but as they said....
But, that's cool. We can work around that, if we really want to. (okay, the Devs could if they really wanted to - but anyways)
Back in the Sav. Invasion, most spells worked in the Marketplace. In fact that persisted until recently, if my memory serves. So, we add that feature back - but in the Portable Hole.

See, the PH is a place for mages - so it'd make sense for them to be able to cut loose with their spells in that location. Perhaps tweak the spells-allowable mechanic to include all spells, including AoEs. Add a back room to the PH - behind the bar, perhaps - that is kitted out with a half dozen or so Training Dummies, and allow spell casters to go nuts.


I think it'd be cool, anyways. :)


agreed.

/Signed!!

It would be very worthwhile to be able to swap your spells at your leisure and do some test fires/statistics analysis stuff on a dummy.

Make the dummy unkillable, just show us the damages done etc..


Just to reiterate & clarify:

Name: Caster Test Dummy
HP: Unlimited
Evasion: No
Resistances: None
Vulnerabilities: None

Location: An instanced room on the airship, the only known place in the entire public 'world' where damage spells may be cast. Only the dummy is affected by them. This dummy MUST be able to accept incoming damage spells as well as spells that make them vulnerable to damage like the Sorcerer PRE Awaken Element Weakness.

Secondary Location: Portable Hole with zone in instanced 'Test' rooms for parties/raid groups / individuals

Silverwren
03-08-2012, 02:10 PM
Location: An instanced room on the airship, the only known place in the entire public 'world' where damage spells may be cast. Only the dummy is affected by them. This dummy MUST be able to accept incoming damage spells as well as spells that make them vulnerable to damage like the Sorcerer PRE Awaken Element Weakness.

Secondary Location: Portable Hole with zone in instanced 'Test' rooms for parties/raid groups / individuals

Although these locations would technically work, they would unfortunately leave out a bunch of players:



Those without guilds
Those WITH guilds that don't have big enough ships
Those low level casters who haven't yet learned Teleport

The first two I could understand, since that is the case right now with the melee dummy, but the last group would be a problem. Even level 1 melee toons can beat up on the current airship dummy. I think then it would have to involve some redesign of the airships to accommodate it.

licho
03-08-2012, 03:11 PM
one thing.. damaging spell are not allowed in public area...

Maybe there could be created a 0xp quest named "House Deneith Danger Room" which will be a separate instance, with some kind of portal and npc, who we can talk to to summon any kind of mob we want to fight.

Like "bring me some trolls, like 3-5". And we can there practice against them.
To be it more sensible lets assume their are just a ilussion.

Such755
03-08-2012, 04:16 PM
/Signed

Sounds simple, sounds fun.

Asketes
03-08-2012, 05:08 PM
Although these locations would technically work, they would unfortunately leave out a bunch of players:



Those without guilds
Those WITH guilds that don't have big enough ships
Those low level casters who haven't yet learned Teleport

The first two I could understand, since that is the case right now with the melee dummy, but the last group would be a problem. Even level 1 melee toons can beat up on the current airship dummy. I think then it would have to involve some redesign of the airships to accommodate it.

1 & 2) Not sure, I was trying to stick with the idea of having a guildship buff. They can't access other guildship stuff. I've always been an advocate for allowing entry to the Portable Hole from House Phiarlin
2)All airships should come with it as a basic instanced room, **EDIT** dummy will still have to be unlocked. **EDIT**

sirgog
03-08-2012, 05:15 PM
Just open Epic VON1 to players of all levels. The first rednamed Minotaur would be a pretty good training dummy - no elemental resists or SR, ~25k HP (not tested exactly), and he can't do anything at all to a kiting player.

InsanityIsYourFriend
03-09-2012, 02:46 PM
my idea with it, put a quest giver in the Portable Hole that is for a solo quest
when you go in there are options to change the training dummy's settings (give him X saves, X resistances, X immunities, be X type, have X casted on them, be X level ect ect ect)
this way when a caster goes in there to train they get their own specialized set of dummy's (put more than one in there)
have an effect in there that gives you constant sp/hp regen

with this you can try out any spell on any type of creature, you could even have some named creatures in there with their own set of resistances ect
this way you can see what spells work best on the lord of blades, or harry ect ect ect

this would help casters amazingly

biggin
03-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Just open Epic VON1 to players of all levels. The first rednamed Minotaur would be a pretty good training dummy - no elemental resists or SR, ~25k HP (not tested exactly), and he can't do anything at all to a kiting player.

Something like that would be nice, but I wouldn't want it to be able to move. Possibly one moving target and one stationary. I just thought of this originally during a SoS. The caster had no idea how to cast a firewall without targeting something (well, he did, it just ended up in weird random places). Learning how to stack them, what clickies to use, etc is important for a caster class, basic skills everyone should learn without the added stress of, "G**D*** newb, don't you know how to (insert skill)?????"

Silverwren
03-09-2012, 07:37 PM
2)All airships should come with it as a basic instanced room.

No. It should have to be purchased like every other thing onboard an airship.


my idea with it, put a quest giver in the Portable Hole that is for a solo quest

..............

this would help casters amazingly

As I've already stated the Hole would not be a good place for it. Lower level toons that haven't learned the teleport spell couldn't use it.

Sidewaysgts86
03-10-2012, 07:58 AM
Id like to see it be a low-guild level contract, equal in level to the training dummy. Id like to see it made as a crew-hookpoint type of contract that when used, brings a *insert mage-type NPC* who offers to teleport you to a "private testing facility" of theirs allowing you to test your spells to your hearts content.

Suggestions for the room: Multiple dummies ranging across varying resistances, scaling from absolutely nothing to raid-boss style. Maybe make it changeable (Ie a single point the dummy spawns, with some kind of interface that prompts the player with what kind of dummy will be spawned at the spot). Id also like to see the room "function" like a tavern, allowing clerics/wizards to swap their spells from their list- as well as purchasing potions to renew their SP to continue testing, or have some kind of buff that gives a hefty SP-Recharge continually while in the room.

Asketes
03-10-2012, 09:53 AM
2)All airships should come with it as a basic instanced room
No. It should have to be purchased like every other thing onboard an airship.

Where did it say the dummy is included?

The instanced room that automatically comes with the ship allows for spells that don't require a target to be cast. They can't assess their Damage Output until the guild purchases the dummy, but the room itself would exist.


**CORRECTION**
Dummy will have to have one buff: undispellable Deathblock ;)

Silverwren
03-12-2012, 07:46 AM
Where did it say the dummy is included?

The instanced room that automatically comes with the ship allows for spells that don't require a target to be cast. They can't assess their Damage Output until the guild purchases the dummy, but the room itself would exist.

Right, you purchase the amenity and get the room, with the dummy. It's a waste of space otherwise. Kind of like the hot tub room on the larger guild ships. Cute but worthless.

"So how might that work?" you ask. Easy. There's a door built somewhere on the ship. Until the amenity is purchased the door goes nowhere and is un-clickable. Once it's purchased the door can be entered and it takes you to the instance where the dummy is and you can start casting away.

Dematto
03-13-2012, 01:04 AM
/signed
I'm all for a Caster-Friendly ship dummy. I'm fine with it having it's own room. I would even go so far as to say that the room, if possible, should be flagged as a Tavern. This will give casters their dummy to parallel the combat dummy, including a Caster-Buff (I'm thinking low SP Regen. 1 or 2 per tick. 2 per 10 seconds or something. I've been gone for a while, so I don't know how time is measured in-game right now). It allows the caster to play with spell rotation, clickies, enhancements and things like that to optimize performance. And furthermore it allows the caster to leave the room PREPARED for a dungeon. I mean, let's be honest. You get ship buffs, then you go quest. So this room needs to not interfere with that flow. You can't have casters high-tailing it back to a tavern to drink and wait out their Clickie-Refresh after getting their ship buffs. That's gonna add like another 5 minutes to the wait before you can start your dungeon.

I would not bother with things like varying dummy strengths and resists. Not on the ship dummy. If enough people want something like that, I say why not look into adding a facility off the Twelve Enclave? They're all about casters, it's f2p, and you could do some really cool stuff with different tiers of strength, resists and moving targets. House D has a ranged-dummy where I believe you have to pull a lever to raise him, then he remains up for a few seconds. You could do something like that with training dummies.

Thoughts?

decease
03-13-2012, 01:10 AM
would be nice if we could test pet/hireling damage too..personally i think it would be best if they make it public instead of guild ship. since not every ship have spare spot for this.. would be nice if they could implement a public training room to test yourself