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View Full Version : Weapon idea - Whips?



DrakeD77a
03-01-2012, 09:36 PM
Here is Whips and maybe the class Whip master as an idea?

Memnir
03-01-2012, 09:41 PM
/signed - but only if they have the same particle effects as other weapons. :)
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http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/Memnir/firewhip.gif
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Talias006
03-01-2012, 09:41 PM
Whips would be an interesting idea, and Chain whips even more so.

Too bad they'd never get the reach bonus, as then you'd see large monsters who have obscene reach bonuses over us PC's and we'd get struck multiple times before even closing in.

But hey, at least there's no Attacks of Opportunity.

PinkDragonJr
03-01-2012, 11:19 PM
I think that reach bonus is compound mainly by server lag. but yeah, I have always been a fan of the good'ol rope and spikes. Weapon, tool and Bondage kit all in one. mmm, leather...

Another weapon I would like to see are scyths, with their, slash/pierce duel damage types. farmers in the games have them. why can we?

1jazzz
03-02-2012, 05:43 AM
not possible, and too much trouble, keep in mind a whip is only 1d4 damage and it's a reach weapon.

no one will use it seriously, just like sickles now

Skavenaps
03-02-2012, 05:48 AM
not possible

oh here we have a dev posting from a secret account eh?

1jazzz
03-02-2012, 05:54 AM
nope, just a basic logical look at stats.

would you invite a whip kensai 3, into your epic tide turns group? or for the matter, for a hard shroud?

Skavenaps
03-02-2012, 05:59 AM
nope, just a basic logical look at stats.

would you invite a whip kensai 3, into your epic tide turns group? or for the matter, for a hard shroud?

and why they need to be equal to the pnp book? since when on the book says 2 hands weapons do aoe damage? or the bsword? or a greatsword do 2d7 of dmg?(looking at you terror).

hes asking for the weapon, not for the stats. all weapons can be made usefull.

1jazzz
03-02-2012, 06:11 AM
and why they need to be equal to the pnp book? since when on the book says 2 hands weapons do aoe damage? or the bsword? or a greatsword do 2d7 of dmg?(looking at you terror).

hes asking for the weapon, not for the stats. all weapons can be made usefull.

granted,

all these has to do with WoTC, keep in mind if it strays too far from PnP it'll become unfamiliar to ex or current PnP players.

granted we all know somethings need to be changed or get left behind for the fact that it's the computer doing the maths. eg.

cleave
PnP-kill 1 hit the next guy
ddo- aoe attack

that aoe/glancing blows mech you're talking about is actually 2 things

1- was never around when they 1st came out, like feats they need to change it to be more appealing/useful to players

2- glancing blows is actually a house rule; meaning not all campaigns use the rule, same goes for critical fail rule

things like grapple and bull rush isn't in here either(i miss my reaping mauler T_T). i think this turbine, WoTC couple is working very well they're feeding off each other and getting $$$

as for your answer to Terror; all weapons are getting a rework, expect a few to maintain as is

DrakeD77a
03-02-2012, 08:33 AM
Personally i would just like to see it for the fact i like whips. not everything has to be the best damage maker to be cool. it can just be cool for how it looks or what it is. its more about the feel of my chara than how useful it is.

Talias006
03-02-2012, 07:41 PM
nope, just a basic logical look at stats.

would you invite a whip kensai 3, into your epic tide turns group? or for the matter, for a hard shroud?

Oh sure, and Khopesh stayed being a longsword profile with a trip bonus.
Look how that turned out. :rolleyes:

Honestly, you're not even trying to think about a cool factor to it, or even a pumped up profile.


They could do something neat with it, like turn it into a light type one handed slashing Finesse weapon with the profile: 1d6 18-20/x2.
And that's just one possible iteration of an increased profile.

In that light it holds a unique position being a slashing high threat range that you can use Finesse with, and the profile easily blends into what the whip can be used for.

Not the greatest, mind you, but still a nice way to tweak the weapon to a feasible Exotic proficiency, even if just for flavor.


As far as animation, there are plenty of other games to look at that use whips successfully, and the one first in my mind is a little game with the acronym DAOC.

1jazzz
03-02-2012, 09:52 PM
i don't think it's wise to introduce a weapon boosted right way, this is how it should be implemented:

1- everything from the PnP ver with some minor additions to "compensate" for lost mechanics

2- readjustments to weapons and procs

3- with such a weapon in the game, the design team now have a reason to create mechanics to make the wep more appeling

4- readjustments to weapons and procs

5- rebalance or change extra/new mechanics as accordance
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this is also what happened to b.sword and dwarven axe. glancing blows and such can be implemented given the chance.

which is why i always object to new items buffed at start

Rhysem
03-02-2012, 11:49 PM
I'm all for adding whips and other new weapons right after they fix ALL the handwraps bugs.

Though I suppose adding a reach weapon like that could give the bugs a new place to congregate, so maybe they'd leave monks handwraps alone for a while...

Talias006
03-03-2012, 02:26 AM
I see your reasons behind the ideas, 1jazzz.

That whole thing with the buff to d-axe and b-sword?

Yeah, that took how long? About 4 years?

Insanely too long, and right now melee is the afterthought way of DPS.

Would rather they did 2 of the things I mentioned to make up for the loss of reach:

buffed damage die
add Finesse characteristic
increased threat range

The idea for Exotics is to have a weapon that is unique enough in it's profile and usage to be feasible and warrant spending a Feat on.

Doing one minor bump to it when adding it to the game will just make it the new sickle, or morning star.

1jazzz
03-04-2012, 11:20 AM
also there is 1 more thing, unlike other weapons the whip requires new animations since it moves like a snake,

main hand
off hand
dual wield

Scraap
03-04-2012, 11:44 AM
i don't think it's wise to introduce a weapon boosted right way, this is how it should be implemented:

1- everything from the PnP ver with some minor additions to "compensate" for lost mechanics

2- readjustments to weapons and procs

3- with such a weapon in the game, the design team now have a reason to create mechanics to make the wep more appeling

4- readjustments to weapons and procs

5- rebalance or change extra/new mechanics as accordance
-------------------------

this is also what happened to b.sword and dwarven axe. glancing blows and such can be implemented given the chance.

which is why i always object to new items buffed at start

Would you consider the whip extending as far as point blank shot reaches an appropriate utility tweak in terms of advantage without overly mauling the core ruleset? (Think pegging things up on ledges, or if they ever teach half the things with wings to use them.)

HatsuharuZ
03-04-2012, 12:04 PM
heh, maybe the whip could be made to use DEX modifiers for both attack AND damage, or perhaps the base damage die increases with at certain dex modifier increments. 1d4 at dex mod 0, 2d4 at dex mod 5, 3d4 at dex mod 10, etc.

How about a feat to make whips deal glancing blow damage, while we're at it? :D

bigolbear
03-04-2012, 12:16 PM
Id like to see whips added to the game, along with spears, and pole arms.

On the subject of whips specificly tho - Id like to see rope introduced, and torches. they are a staple of d&d adventuring, Im mentioning this because there is little that can be done with a length of rope that cannont also be doen with a whip so it would give a real advantage to people who use whips.

DDO is becoming more dynamic and more 3 dimensional with every update it seems - moving platforms etc, dynamic lighting with rainbow in the dark and now FVS archons and summon archons. Its time to introduce ways for players to move more dynamicly and fight more dynamicly.

In fact this probly warants its own thread so im off to the suggestions forum again.

InsanityIsYourFriend
03-04-2012, 12:22 PM
or on vorpal hits it does a scaled trip ~scaled by your own trip modifier so if your a kinsei fighter trip focused with imp trip using a whip every time you roll a 20 its basically an auto trip to those able to be tripped not to mention the ability to still use trip~ then add in cleave and great cleave and you have a CC melee easily, sure its not stunning blow but hey
I can already see the twirling barbarian ^^

two handed weapon with chance at double strike would also be nice
whips could be fun
as for why it gets said effect look at Great Cross bow when your prof with it, on vorpal hits what does it do? it knocks things down why cant a whip do that?

Maelodic
03-04-2012, 01:02 PM
Down kitty.

Either way making them a little lackluster but adding them to the thief acrobat line wouldn't be to terrible.

Aesop
03-04-2012, 03:03 PM
or on vorpal hits it does a scaled trip ~scaled by your own trip modifier so if your a kinsei fighter trip focused with imp trip using a whip every time you roll a 20 its basically an auto trip to those able to be tripped not to mention the ability to still use trip~ then add in cleave and great cleave and you have a CC melee easily, sure its not stunning blow but hey
I can already see the twirling barbarian ^^

two handed weapon with chance at double strike would also be nice
whips could be fun
as for why it gets said effect look at Great Cross bow when your prof with it, on vorpal hits what does it do? it knocks things down why cant a whip do that?

I kinda like the Knockdown property idea.

I think I'd make it

Whip
Light Weapon
1d4 19-20 x2: Slashing
Special: On Vorpal effect Knockdown

To go with this I'd like to see Spiked Chains as well

Those I'd make

Chain, Spiked
Two Handed Weapon
2d4 20 x3: Piercing
Special: Improved Glancing Blows: Slightly Higher Damage, Proc Rate (I assume we'll eventually see Glancing Blows have a Proc Rate anyway) and chance to Proc Special Enhancements.

Kamas I'd like to see a special ability added as well.

Kama
Light/Monk Weapon
1d6 20x2: Slashing
Special: Bleeding: On critical target suffers Bleed damage 1d4 + attacker Wis modifier every 2 sec for 6 sec.

Shuriken I'd like to see

Shuriken
Thrown/Monk
1d2 20x2: Slashing and Piercing
Special: While throwing shuriken there is a 20% chance to throw an extra on any given attack. Shuriken expertise stacks with this benefit.



Exotic weapons should have something interesting about them.

Aesop

Ungood
03-04-2012, 07:21 PM
Shuriken
Thrown/Monk
1d2 20x2: Slashing/Piercing
Special: While throwing shuriken there is a 20% chance to throw an extra on any given attack. Shuriken expertise stacks with this benefit.

I am a firm believer that Shuriken's need a massive revamp. And your idea is in the right direction. I think being able to just throw multiple shurikens like say 4 @ 20, or BaB/5,

Would be a step in the right direction to make them worthwhile.

Aesop
03-04-2012, 07:29 PM
I am a firm believer that Shuriken's need a massive revamp. And your idea is in the right direction. I think being able to just throw multiple shurikens like say 4 @ 20, or BaB/5,

Would be a step in the right direction to make them worthwhile.

I'd also have Shuriken generate Ki like melee and be able to apply the Elemental Strikes to Shuriken attacks. I'd also not allow 10k Stars to work with a Bow, but I would allow the bow (with Zen Archery) to generate Ki and use Elemental Strikes.

with that I think Shurikens would be a good viable weapon for certain builds and Zen Archers would be viable without completely stomping on the Shuriken's thing

Aesop

Ungood
03-04-2012, 07:35 PM
I'd also have Shuriken generate Ki like melee and be able to apply the Elemental Strikes to Shuriken attacks. I'd also not allow 10k Stars to work with a Bow, but I would allow the bow (with Zen Archery) to generate Ki and use Elemental Strikes.

with that I think Shurikens would be a good viable weapon for certain builds and Zen Archers would be viable without completely stomping on the Shuriken's thing

Aesop

I can get behind the Ki for them as well. That seems reasonable.. I have no idea about the bow thing, so I am not going to comment.

1jazzz
03-04-2012, 11:07 PM
i would agree to have whips have dex attack bonus by default, and str for damage. getting a trip on vaporal as an added bonus would be good incentive

however the range for whips are 5-10 ft by default, i don't think range feats should effect this weapon as the scripting may clash, and the text may confuse the heck out of everyone

as for the other ideas of putting built-in effects, i would almost always say NO. it's makes the wep broken e.g.

using cannith craft: strength sapping kama of enfeebling(of bleeding)

Scraap
03-04-2012, 11:39 PM
however the range for whips are 5-10 ft by default, i don't think range feats should effect this weapon as the scripting may clash, and the text may confuse the heck out of everyone


Sorry, for clarity I was referring to the distance reference mark that folks are likely familiar with. Not the feat (or the feet, for that matter, since they altered that precisely for utility as well).

Ungood
03-05-2012, 10:02 AM
I am going to be honest, I can't see the point of whips in the game as far as a players perspective on things, but I could so see any succubus or Malicia herself using a whip, it would be so fitting.

http://my.ddo.com/turbinecommunity/files/2011/03/for-chronicle2.jpg

You have got to admit, having a whip in her other hand would just complete the ensemble.

madmaxhunter
03-05-2012, 10:12 AM
Tying into the monk's weapons, and close to the whip idea would be the kusarigama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama. Maybe as a unique weapon.

You could also add the flail to the family, for tripping abilities

Luis_Velderve
03-05-2012, 10:38 AM
Flexible weapons at DDO......I do not see it happen. I miss spears and flexible weapons in this game.

Cauthey
03-05-2012, 10:50 AM
/signed.

Indiana Jones build, anyone? :D

Alrik_Fassbauer
03-05-2012, 12:39 PM
Indiana Jones build ? Well, there's enough excavations going on ... ;)

Jay203
03-05-2012, 02:53 PM
for whip to be implemented, new attack animations would need to be made as well =\

but i want spears first :(

Aesop
03-05-2012, 04:18 PM
i would agree to have whips have dex attack bonus by default, and str for damage. getting a trip on vaporal as an added bonus would be good incentive

however the range for whips are 5-10 ft by default, i don't think range feats should effect this weapon as the scripting may clash, and the text may confuse the heck out of everyone

as for the other ideas of putting built-in effects, i would almost always say NO. it's makes the wep broken e.g.

using cannith craft: strength sapping kama of enfeebling(of bleeding)

Strength Sapping of Enfeebling isn't a broken combination and bleeding is just extra damage so I'm not sure why that seems broken to you? Especially since Kama is one of the weakest weapons in the game with its only use being for Monks to have access to Vorpal and certain other limited effects... most of which are no longer as good as they once were. Melee and actually weapon combat across the board is on the weak side of things relative to other combat forms ie spells. An extra little bit of damage (and that was only a single possibility maybe instead it caused pain giving a -2 to attack rolls and AC) doesn't strike me as broken. perhaps you should reexamine what you think is broken in the game... you like to say things are broken a lot.

Aesop

1jazzz
03-05-2012, 07:29 PM
not really the broken part its the fact the free bleeding property is not counted into total mod.

the real problem i have with this is, the fact that if you implement this the game will become unfamiliar to PnP players. in DDO there are in essence 3 type of players

new to mmos
ex/current pnp players
mmo players

most of these posts are the wants of the mmo players which have no idea what D&D is(debatable i concur), taking other expects from another game don't quite cut it most times.

i'm sure many player ignore this section of the forums, thinking it's not worth their time, turbine isn't bothered to hear us out anyways.

it's not the matter of suggestion, it's the matter of quality control. turbine can't just take everything they see and implement it as it'll make the game a huge jumble of a mess. e.g

the evil alignment: would you be fine with turbine give you the option to be evil but nothing else changed? meaning it's just a damage and damage reduction preference. making implementation to make evil be "evil" in DDO would mean re-scripting over 50% of the game; which in turn might just bring break the game rather than making it better.

Aesop
03-05-2012, 09:45 PM
not really the broken part its the fact the free bleeding property is not counted into total mod.

the real problem i have with this is, the fact that if you implement this the game will become unfamiliar to PnP players. in DDO there are in essence 3 type of players

new to mmos
ex/current pnp players
mmo players

most of these posts are the wants of the mmo players which have no idea what D&D is(debatable i concur), taking other expects from another game don't quite cut it most times.

i'm sure many player ignore this section of the forums, thinking it's not worth their time, turbine isn't bothered to hear us out anyways.

it's not the matter of suggestion, it's the matter of quality control. turbine can't just take everything they see and implement it as it'll make the game a huge jumble of a mess. e.g

the evil alignment: would you be fine with turbine give you the option to be evil but nothing else changed? meaning it's just a damage and damage reduction preference. making implementation to make evil be "evil" in DDO would mean re-scripting over 50% of the game; which in turn might just bring break the game rather than making it better.


No one is saying turbine will take all suggestions but your critique lacks substance, its based around "unfamiliarity" for pnp players, who in my experience are fairly adaptable, and the logic of "Turbine doesn't pay attention so why bother". These don't hold water as we've seen evidence to the contrary

Talias006
03-05-2012, 09:55 PM
the evil alignment: would you be fine with turbine give you the option to be evil but nothing else changed? meaning it's just a damage and damage reduction preference. making implementation to make evil be "evil" in DDO would mean re-scripting over 50% of the game; which in turn might just bring break the game rather than making it better.

There is already a thread on the topic active, why does this need to be in the topic about whips as a new weapon type?

1jazzz
03-05-2012, 10:28 PM
There is already a thread on the topic active, why does this need to be in the topic about whips as a new weapon type?

yea, i'm recycling my examples, thanks for the gank/flank.