PDA

View Full Version : Can't Figure This One Out



Arkat
02-19-2012, 04:22 PM
If the Arcane Scroll vendors can sell Deconstruct scrolls, why can't Divine Scroll vendors sell Harm scrolls? It would certainly make my Pale Master's life easier.

Anyone figure this one out yet?

I guess I should add my suggestion then:


Suggestion: Please add Harm scrolls to the Divine Scroll Vendors' list of scrolls for sale.

CheeseMilk
02-19-2012, 05:44 PM
Invincible Pale Masters with UMD?

I don't know, specifically, but that's my guess.

Havok.cry
02-19-2012, 06:15 PM
If they do I will actually buy a rename scroll for my PM and change his name to God.

~Quilny
02-19-2012, 10:22 PM
If the Arcane Scroll vendors can sell Deconstruct scrolls, why can't Divine Scroll vendors sell Harm scrolls? It would certainly make my Pale Master's life easier.

Anyone figure this one out yet?

I agree they should and to prevent god mode they could make the UMD check Extremely high. or just take away UMD check and make it only usuable by divines at a certain level

/signed

noinfo
02-19-2012, 11:00 PM
I agree they should and to prevent god mode they could make the UMD check Extremely high. or just take away UMD check and make it only usuable by divines at a certain level

/signed

I actually find this funny. I don't have a PM anymore and I don't have a WF but to say to prevent god mode on an arcane when you have WF quicken recon is a bit silly.
In general I am against any more easy self healing for arcanes and divines but this at least requires an investment of 39 UMD on a non charisma based toon that can be interupted.

Arkat
02-20-2012, 08:24 AM
Invincible Pale Masters with UMD?

I don't know, specifically, but that's my guess.


If they do I will actually buy a rename scroll for my PM and change his name to God.

WF PMs can't Recon themselves (with scrolls or otherwise) in Undead mode? I don't know, I'm just asking.



I actually find this funny. I don't have a PM anymore and I don't have a WF but to say to prevent god mode on an arcane when you have WF quicken recon is a bit silly.
In general I am against any more easy self healing for arcanes and divines but this at least requires an investment of 39 UMD on a non charisma based toon that can be interupted.
Thank you. Agreed on ALL points.

+1 to you as it sounds like you at least thought about it.

Doxmaster
02-22-2012, 11:05 AM
Invincible Pale Masters with UMD?

I don't know, specifically, but that's my guess.

So...
--------
Archmages using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

Sorcerers using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

WF Sorcerers using Reconstruct+natural spells-Fine

WF archmages Using Reconstruct+natural spells-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using natural spells to heal and still ConOp SP regen-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using Harm scrolls-40 UMD-OMG, OP, NERF NOW
--------
What exactly is wrong? Please point it out with exact detail, perhaps some allegory and a few subtle metaphors for blossuming into puberty, obfuscated by quick, dry wit and a gentle, lilting cadence of words selected for their natural implications that, despite being assured any learned gent could understand, still infuriates high school students for centuries to come because it sure isnt obvious to literally half the people in this thread.

Cauthey
02-22-2012, 11:09 AM
WF PMs can't Recon themselves (with scrolls or otherwise) in Undead mode? I don't know, I'm just asking.

No, they cannot. "They're more undead, now, than machine." :p

Spoprockel
02-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Not that it's needed very often, but every once in a while i wish i had a stack of harm scrolls on my rogue to help out the PM
when he grabs agro off the tank in eDA at low SP / gets tripped in elite amrath / char drained in elite DD quests.

I already carry a stack of heal and reconstruct scrolls, why not harm?

Arkat
02-22-2012, 11:25 AM
So...
--------
Archmages using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

Sorcerers using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

WF Sorcerers using Reconstruct+natural spells-Fine

WF archmages Using Reconstruct+natural spells-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using natural spells to heal and still ConOp SP regen-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using Harm scrolls-40 UMD-OMG, OP, NERF NOW
--------
What exactly is wrong? Please point it out with exact detail, perhaps some allegory and a few subtle metaphors for blossuming into puberty, obfuscated by quick, dry wit and a gentle, lilting cadence of words selected for their natural implications that, despite being assured any learned gent could understand, still infuriates high school students for centuries to come because it sure isnt obvious to literally half the people in this thread.

Lots of good points here Doxmaster. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll get a good response. :(

+1

CheeseMilk
02-22-2012, 02:41 PM
Let me add that I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be vendor-available, I was just thinking of possible reasons as to why they aren't.

DragonMageT
02-22-2012, 02:50 PM
So...
--------
Archmages using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

Sorcerers using Heal scrolls-40 UMD-Fine

WF Sorcerers using Reconstruct+natural spells-Fine

WF archmages Using Reconstruct+natural spells-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using natural spells to heal and still ConOp SP regen-no umd-Fine

Pale masters using Harm scrolls-40 UMD-OMG, OP, NERF NOW
--------
What exactly is wrong? Please point it out with exact detail, perhaps some allegory and a few subtle metaphors for blossuming into puberty, obfuscated by quick, dry wit and a gentle, lilting cadence of words selected for their natural implications that, despite being assured any learned gent could understand, still infuriates high school students for centuries to come because it sure isnt obvious to literally half the people in this thread.

Let me put to you this way.

So you want all the advantages of being a WF AM on a PM plus scrolling healing and +1 to all your DCs over a AM.

No, just No!

ArcaneMelee
02-22-2012, 02:58 PM
...
What exactly is wrong? Please point it out with exact detail, perhaps some allegory and a few subtle metaphors for blossuming into puberty, obfuscated by quick, dry wit and a gentle, lilting cadence of words selected for their natural implications that, despite being assured any learned gent could understand, still infuriates high school students for centuries to come because it sure isnt obvious to literally half the people in this thread.

You're not accounting for the fact that Pale Master self-healing is already competitive with the others. Giving Pale Master the additional benefit of readily-available Harm scrolls would be similar to giving non-PM builds the ability to benefit from Death Aura + Lesser Death Aura + Negative Blast + Boon to Undeath + Lich temporary hit points.

If you don't think that is over-powered, well, then I guess there's not much chance of us coming to common ground.

Dawnsfire
02-22-2012, 03:20 PM
You're not accounting for the fact that Pale Master self-healing is already competitive with the others. Giving Pale Master the additional benefit of readily-available Harm scrolls would be similar to giving non-PM builds the ability to benefit from Death Aura + Lesser Death Aura + Negative Blast + Boon to Undeath + Lich temporary hit points.

If you don't think that is over-powered, well, then I guess there's not much chance of us coming to common ground.

Sounds pretty close to a fleshie Radiant Servant to me except that they don't need spell points for their aura or bursts, don't need UMD for the scrolls and they don't have forms. I think the PM is bit more powerful offensively but the RS has a big advantage in healing (as both were designed for). All that having been said, it all seems a bit arbitrary. Perhaps in the future wands and scrolls will be added to crafting.

Doxmaster
02-22-2012, 04:13 PM
You're not accounting for the fact that Pale Master self-healing is already competitive with the others. Giving Pale Master the additional benefit of readily-available Harm scrolls would be similar to giving non-PM builds the ability to benefit from Death Aura + Lesser Death Aura + Negative Blast + Boon to Undeath + Lich temporary hit points.

If you don't think that is over-powered, well, then I guess there's not much chance of us coming to common ground.

I will acquiesce that the raw durability from PM is high, however I still desire Harm scrolls.

The difference between a Maximized+Empowered Negative Energy burst and a Harm falls almost solely on SP use...and it has always been my stance that frugality with SP is almost always preferable to other options.

NEB however, is the better option for the most part. It can also be quickened, so there is no Concentration check if you don't want there to be one. It can affect other pale masters, making it the equivalent of Mass Heal.

What it comes down to, honestly, is how many options one thinks there should be for one solitary character type and what cost your preferred option should have; Time (Auras), Plat (Scrolls) or SP (NEB).

Putting Pale Masters aside for a moment, how would you feel about other character types gaining access to the various traits and abilites of Undeath? Costs, in whatever form they may arise, are negligible; I have come up with a short list of possibilities, but that is neither here nor there.

Would the benefit of Harm scroll not exclusively being a Pale Master perk warm you to the idea?

Zeruell
02-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Let me put to you this way.

So you want all the advantages of being a WF AM on a PM plus scrolling healing and +1 to all your DCs over a AM.

No, just No!

So the PM gets Quickened Reconstruct and selectively free metamagics while that extra +1 is running?

Wait...


Sounds pretty close to a fleshie Radiant Servant to me except that they don't need spell points for their aura or bursts, don't need UMD for the scrolls and they don't have forms. I think the PM is bit more powerful offensively but the RS has a big advantage in healing (as both were designed for). All that having been said, it all seems a bit arbitrary. Perhaps in the future wands and scrolls will be added to crafting.

Agreed. Too, if Boon of Undeath is getting thrown onto the table, we may as well mention Healer's Bounty and the recent line of Auto-Repair effects.

GeneralDiomedes
02-25-2012, 01:12 PM
How long have they not been in the vendors? The spell predates Pale Masters.

Arkat
02-25-2012, 01:32 PM
How long have they not been in the vendors? The spell predates Pale Masters.

I don't know. That's one of the reasons I'm confused regarding this subject.

I never thought having a bunch of Harm scrolls as "game breaking." It isn't like lowbies can tear through low-level content with them as the UMD check is 40 and you'd need to be around a 10th level Divine to use them at all without the UMD check.

What's the big deal?