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View Full Version : Vendors sell Ddoor?



~Quilny
02-18-2012, 06:03 PM
So my suggestion is I would like vendors to sell the scroll Ddoor.


and


go

Calebro
02-18-2012, 07:35 PM
They used to way back in the day. They sold Wall of Fire scrolls as well. This was all before Dungeon Alert, back when AoE spells didn't disappear if you moved too far away from them.
Do you see the connection of why I mention all of this together?

People would zerg to the end, drop a Firewall, drop a DDoor, and watch their combat logs to see the FW kill everything from the safety of the entrance.
People would also zerg to the end, kill the boss, loot the chest, and DDoor out, leaving every single monster in the entire dungeon active.
So they stopped selling the scrolls.
Now that DA exists and AoE spells disappear if you move too far away, one of these exploits is impossible and the other is much harder to pull off (and if you were doing it then you're probably still doing it now anyway), so I see no reason why the scrolls can't be sold again. I've /signed every thread like this for a couple of years now.

/signed

ArcaneMelee
02-18-2012, 08:27 PM
Actually, I'm just the opposite. I want them to pull scrolls from the vendors entirely, or at the very least add a scroll-timer to the game.

But I'll admit it's mainly because I'm resistant to even more benefits to playing a deeply-splashed melee caster being sold in stacks.

voodoogroves
02-18-2012, 08:55 PM
Putting more scrolls in the game will benefit the non-casters considerably as they'd have access to a number of abilities that are class restricted in DDO, but aren't necessarily in D&D.

I totally wouldn't mind that.


I also wouldn't mind if UMD DCs were tweaked somewhat back towards the D&D base to help level the field.

Ninety
02-19-2012, 04:13 PM
i thought they removed DD scrolls because it was to easy to 2 man titan with them.

either way, I woudn't mind seeing them back.

aristarchus1000
02-19-2012, 04:42 PM
I think it would help level the field, rather making ddo or a privilege of certain casters. It will also make short manning certain quests possible to all classes with umd rather than a select few.

I see nothing wrong with 2 manning a level 10 ancient rarely played raid if you are capable of it.

Brennie
02-19-2012, 04:51 PM
The problem i see with this, is that DDoor would never be a prepared spell ever again - It has the exact same effect when scrolled as when cast, and who would want to prepare the spell when the Arcane (or anyone in the party with a half decent UMD) could simply scroll it.

Now, with spells like Wall of Fire on the other hand, caster level, DCs, Caster enhancements, gear and the like are all VERY important - I see no reason whatsoever why THAT scroll couldn't hit vendors (along with virtually every other low-mid level spell that is as caster-specc dependant)

Calebro
02-19-2012, 07:16 PM
The problem i see with this, is that DDoor would never be a prepared spell ever again - It has the exact same effect when scrolled as when cast, and who would want to prepare the spell when the Arcane (or anyone in the party with a half decent UMD) could simply scroll it.

There are lots of spells that fit this criteria. Most of them are divine spells, but that doesn't change this fact.
No one preps Mass <insert stat here> except for HoX, and a scroll lasts more than long enough for that purpose.
Protection from Elements (and it's mass version) don't benefit from Extend and cap at caster level 10 (which is only 1 level above the minimum to cast the single target version {for clerics - for FvSs it's the same CL}, and is below the Mass version's CL.
Any Restoration, Raise (except for True Res), etc.
They sell all of those scrolls. DDoor is no different.

Sarisa
02-19-2012, 07:25 PM
The limitation of Titan is red, which requires three (or two with one being an Arti with a dog). On Sarlona, at least, we very often shortman it with anywhere from 3-6. The person with DDoor just goes and solo's green (which requires 4 without DDoor).

DDoor scrolls would just allow more people besides arcanes, Bards, and the occasional Dragonmarked fighter to do it, which evens the playing field a little.

If there is objection to having these "powerful" (DDoor, Harm) scrolls available to everyone, make them BtA or BtC and a favour reward, so that you would have to earn it.

Brennie
02-19-2012, 07:46 PM
There are lots of spells that fit this criteria. Most of them are divine spells, but that doesn't change this fact.
No one preps Mass <insert stat here> except for HoX, and a scroll lasts more than long enough for that purpose.
Protection from Elements (and it's mass version) don't benefit from Extend and cap at caster level 10 (which is only 1 level above the minimum to cast the single target version {for clerics - for FvSs it's the same CL}, and is below the Mass version's CL.
Any Restoration, Raise (except for True Res), etc.
They sell all of those scrolls. DDoor is no different.

This is true. Infact, my FvS is guilty of scrolling raises and restores rather than using a spell slot on em (Well, okay he does use a spell slot on one of the raises, but keeps scrolls too for those tight-SP moments)

The problem with the Mass Stat buffs is a lot more complex than simply being scrollable. Currently, there is only one place in the game these are particularly useful, and that usage is a fairly low duration. If these spells had applications outside of JUST hound, I'm sure people would be appreciative of them being full duration. If it was an "All quest every quest" buff, it would have the problem of being a MUCH bigger drain on resources and upkeep, too!

Can Mass Protection from elements be bought? If so, I might need to look into that. This is one i would vote against being on vendors, for exactly the reason you describe. However, again, this does fall into the "All quest, every quest" problem, where it would be a pretty large maintenance and resource drain to keep recasting via scrolls. (Also - Side note: these spells cap WAY too low. Resist energy easily outclasses them for any type of repeating damage)

Restoration and Raise Dead are... iffy in my mind. My FvS did specifically neglect to take these spells, because he knew a) he would only need these occasionally, and b) he could scroll them for the exact same effectiveness. However, these have a *slightly* different category in my mind as they are reactive spells - Their purpose is to undo death and neg levels/stat damage, in order to recover and press forwqrd. Also note that these abilities do exist in some clickies and class abilities, so even non UMDers can have access to them.

DDoor, on the other hand, is tactical - it is usually used in order to complete quest faster, to avoid unnecessary obstacles, or to basically Win Better (tm). As such, I don't feel that it should be readily available to any Tom, ****, or Harry (no relation) with some UMD or bard/arcane levels and a bit of cash. For people who do wish to scroll DDoor, you have that option - You are just limited by DDoor scroll drop rates (Which are, admittedly, low).

This is just my semi-biased opinion however, based mostly on seeing DDoor as a luxury. I fully understand your opinion, and think it makes as much sense.

Scortius
02-19-2012, 10:08 PM
Mass Pro scrolls are available in the Portable Hole

Impaqt
02-19-2012, 10:37 PM
Mass Pro scrolls are available in the Portable Hole

Protection from Energy and Protection from Elements is there, but I dont recall seeing Protection from Elements,Mass

Edit: Wow, It is there.. Under "Mass Protection, instead of Mass at the end... Nice...

DrNuegebauer
02-19-2012, 10:42 PM
The limitation of Titan is red, which requires three (or two with one being an Arti with a dog).

Pretty sure you can do red with 2 if you have lockpicking?

sephiroth1084
02-19-2012, 10:56 PM
/signed

Honestly, with level 4 spell slots as competitive as they are now, I see no problem with DDoor being commonly available at vendors.

And as stated by others, it opens up an option to characters with UMD.

twigzz
02-19-2012, 11:01 PM
Indeed they should put them back in. /signed

TEcarson
02-19-2012, 11:36 PM
Protection from Energy and Protection from Elements is there, but I dont recall seeing Protection from Elements,Mass

Edit: Wow, It is there.. Under "Mass Protection, instead of Mass at the end... Nice...

Yeah, this page - http://ddowiki.com/page/Scrolls - used to be quite long, and I was stockpiling scrolls that were on the rare list. Then they moved a bunch to vendors (including Mass Prot), and my scroll mule has some wiggle room. :)

Calebro
02-19-2012, 11:45 PM
Pretty sure you can do red with 2 if you have lockpicking?

Nope, still requires three. Getting to the yellow/red valves is where you need all three. Person A stays at a lever, person B goes through the gate to the yellow valve. Person C goes through the gate to the red valve. Person A lets person B back through.
Impossible to do with two people.

Such755
02-20-2012, 01:58 AM
/Signed
Why not?!

licho
02-20-2012, 05:50 AM
/not signed

As was mentioned before DDoor cast from scroll gives same effect as from spell slot, so its like giving a extra spell slot all classes which already have it. And spell slot managment is part of a challenge. The fact that wizards have more slots is their advantage.

On the other side fire wall is safe. And can be introduce to vendors, i doubt it will change much in most cases.

Also note that you dont need DDoor to complete any quest. Itt may make quest last longer but you still complete.

On the other side raise dead, restoracion, neutralizacion, remove poisond and stuff... is a status removal, and without it finishing a quest is questionable. (for example having pile of neg levels)

If we want to make live of arcanes a little easier we can allow the trainers to learn the spell for some honest price.
(getting some scrolls from AH can be hard)

FranOhmsford
02-20-2012, 06:16 AM
[B][COLOR="Yellow"]Can Mass Protection from elements be bought? If so, I might need to look into that. This is one i would vote against being on vendors, for exactly the reason you describe. However, again, this does fall into the "All quest, every quest" problem, where it would be a pretty large maintenance and resource drain to keep recasting via scrolls. (Also - Side note: these spells cap WAY too low. Resist energy easily outclasses them for any type of repeating damage)


Resist Energy removes the first 10-30 pts of damage from said element

Prot Energy/Elements gives over a 100 points of DR that goes away very fast UNLESS you have Resist as well.

With Resist the extra DR from prot can go a long way.


These two spells are meant to be used together - Not instead of.

In fact considering shipbuffs Prot is probably the more needed of the two.

Infant
02-20-2012, 06:26 AM
Resist Energy removes the first 10-30 pts of damage from said element

Prot Energy/Elements gives over a 100 points of DR that goes away very fast UNLESS you have Resist as well.

With Resist the extra DR from prot can go a long way.


These two spells are meant to be used together - Not instead of.

In fact considering shipbuffs Prot is probably the more needed of the two.

IIRC, Protection from Elements applies first. Then resists, then absorbtion.

Teharahma
02-20-2012, 06:43 AM
Oh oh oh !

Add Power Word: Kill scrolls aswell!

Everyone loves a guaranteed kill on a mob with no SR every 6 seconds.

Sarisa
02-20-2012, 06:50 AM
Pretty sure you can do red with 2 if you have lockpicking?


Nope, still requires three. Getting to the yellow/red valves is where you need all three. Person A stays at a lever, person B goes through the gate to the yellow valve. Person C goes through the gate to the red valve. Person A lets person B back through.
Impossible to do with two people.

The first door as well, even with a lockpicker. Let someone into the green door, to open blue. Lockpicker goes into blue and picks it. Someone will have to then be there to let the person behind Green out, or else they can never rejoin the group.