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View Full Version : Be Ok About Letting Go of a Character



Paleus
02-14-2012, 09:45 AM
A lot of people who are somewhat new to this game design characters that are...not the best. That is ok, no one expects you to be perfect out of the starting gate. However, part of that learning experience is going to be learning when its time to take your character out behind the wood-shed and start over. This post is inspired by the wizard rogue who stood in front of a chest the other day asking for someone to open it. It was locked and you know a wiz/rogue so...uhm. Part of that issue was lack of knowledge of game mechanics (a really big part), but if you've made it to level 13 with absolutely no trap skills and as much dex as intelligence (with a little bit more strength and a bit less con) on your wizard with two levels of rogue then you need to take it out behind the wood-shed.

So, what do you do when this happens. Well, most of the gear you have accumulated now can probably be transferred to an alt (you might want to consider making one). You're probably saying that you don't have a shared bank account or not enough space on your available characters (only two character slots is a bit low). Well, you could always look into dual-boxing a second free account (forum link below) which gives you two characters and reasonably faster transferring. This wont help you with bound to account or character gear, but at this point its honestly usually gear that while it seems hard to get and nice, you could probably do without. Second, there is a plat cap and unless you have the shared plat bank feature you can't easily transfer much of it. Consider turning that stuff into gear and consumables you'll need in your next life (GFL, fort, +stat items, weapons and potions).

Once your character is divested of their plat and gear, its time to delete them and re-roll. The sooner you recognize its time to re-roll a character, the better off you'll be. The XP curve in the game is such that leveling up a new character back to where you were is easier the sooner you do it. It will also give you a chance to re-learn the game mechanics (you might want to look into the repair spell on that warforged arcane) and also the second time around quests are actually easier to beat so you'll probably level faster.

The point of this, beyond my exasperation at certain players, is that learning to let go of that first (or fifth) poorly designed character is actually part of the learning process in this game (at least in my opinion and we've all done it at some time, dont get me started on my 8 con sword and board favored soul). There are ways you can smooth the transition. Some of you are probably seriously invested in your character and may take it as a personal affront at the suggestion of a re-roll. But it can honestly be better to let go of a character in the short-term than to get frustrated with the game in the long-term when the content gets tougher and the reputation of your character's poor performance makes it harder to find groups.

Re-rolling a character will, of course, not help with the issue that a wiz/rogue didn't know about the knock spell or about a spell that could invis oneself (especially after passing a shrine and still asking others for it). But we can hope you'll pick up those little insights on the second time around. Thank you for letting me have this moment of catharsis

Dual-box on the same computer - third post in thread - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=233077

krackythehoodedone
02-14-2012, 09:54 AM
Remember you can always reincarnate a toon.

Your first toon is very likely to be super gimp but have a special place in your character roster.

You dont have to destoy he/she/it can come back, better stronger than before..the si.............

Claransa
02-14-2012, 09:57 AM
Wow! Never heard of lesser reincarnation huh? It can fix any build once a week as needed. $9 in the store not on sale.

Paleus
02-14-2012, 10:06 AM
Two quick notes. Lesser Reincarnation and True Reincarnation are also two means of fixing a character being brought up, but they also have their drawbacks. One, not everyone is willing to throw $9 at a character for whatever reason (cheapskatery, jobless kid, preference for pizza over LR heart). Second, a full TR is also problematic because the xp curve to 20 is usually higher than the XP curve back to where they are currently, so it would take longer for limited reward. But even if you did go that route this assumes you're either willing to spend money again for the heart or getting into epics to token grind it (far less likely if you seriously need a re-roll).

I suppose like in other situations the analogy of taking something out behind the woodshed is the cheap way out, its one option among many others you can be presented with, its up to you to weigh the costs and benefits of each. Also, I forgot to note its always important to hit easy to reach favor milestones with a character before putting it out to pasture.

jwdaniels
02-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Also, I forgot to note its always important to hit easy to reach favor milestones with a character before putting it out to pasture.

Particularly 1000 favor for veteran status - get a little bit of a jump on re-leveling.

sk3l3t0r
02-14-2012, 11:22 AM
If you are a new casual player who prefers to solo it's not really an issue what other people think of your build because people like me don't care, I'm just learning the game at this point...my 2 currently used character slots (I have 8 more to go) are "ok" I guess, as a new player I am really not concerned about mastering the game at this point, heck I am having a hard enough time figuring out my way around the various houses in the marketplace, wilderness areas and quests at level then to be worried about my character build...part of the learning curve you mention is also about learning from your mistakes, getting frustrated and going about your own personal process of growing / evolving into a new game...and btw who the hell is this Aboott guy people keep complaining about? ...I think he is some sort of end boss in some raid or something...that's the kind of attitude some new players have, they are so overwhelemed with at level content and the learning curve for the current quests and raids they are doing that people trying to help them faster through the learning curve is more stressful than anything...let players learn at their own pace instead of impossing the pace you are used to playing at because of your experience...figruing out that you need certain build aspects to your character for end game raiding with a group or guildies is only 1 way of playing this game, some people will build their toons to suit solo game play the majority of the time and won't ever care about how their build works in a group for those rare occasions they might participate in one...

What frustrates lots of new players having to listen to veteran players is very much like me trying to tell my teenage daughter how to live her life, the best of intentions are there to help "save" her from herself and to keep her from making mistakes, when in reality I should just mind my own business and let her live her own life sometimes and let her learn from her own experiences and be there to help her when she wants it not when I think she needs it.

That's why new players like me get defensive, everyone is unique and has a different way of doing things and learning from it...sometimes you are doing someone a diservice by trying to "help" them because you are removing that learning experience from the natural way they are used to doing things and by progressing at a certain pace. Let people learn from their mistakes instead of trying to impose your will on how to do things so they can avoid making those valuable mistakes...maybe people will get less defensive with you, even though you have the best of intentions, sometimes unsolicited help gives people the wrong impression about your will to give them a helping hand and consider it more as an attack or criticism of their limited knowledge of game mechanics and embarasses them. Also they might possibly see you as an elitist or arrogant individual, not everyone responds well to having their flaws pointed out...also keep in mind people come from different backgrounds and cultures and how things are done in one part of the world might not be how they do them in other parts of the world. Dealing with diversity across cultural boundaries is not easy to figure out. Sometimes advice is taken as an insult or words can be taken out of context because of language barriers....not everyone's first language is English..mine isn't.

Personaly speaking I have yet to participate in any group event, I would rather hire a few pocket gold seal and regular hirelings and run the quest alone, maybe read a guide on the wiki along the way. That way I can take my time, explore every nook and cranny (because it's probably my first time running it) and get a feel for the normal / hard / elite settings by myself without someone complaining about my build or trying to give me advice I am not interested in receiving, or rushing me through the quest so they can get the most efficient xp / minute... Sure it might get frustrating that I can't open that end chest (and yes it has happened, but I am a level 10 cleric with no skills to pick locks and open said chest...but IDC, I am learning along the way WHY I can't open it, so sooner or later I will adjust as needed by either rolling an alt and trying a different class or by multiclassing...I will figure it out). But that is how I do things, so maybe some people you encounter are just coming out of their hermit shells and exploring group events and activties for the first time, and maybe they might take your help in a wrong way and see it more as criticism and attack instead of perceiving it as good intentions because maybe their previous build worked fine with their play style but now that they are transitioning into a guild, or group stuff, then they don't fit in as well because game mechanics in that type of gameplay is different...you are more of a specialist than a generalist, you might be expected to tank, be a healbot, a blue bar, trap monkey, etc ...and take on a role within a party of adventures instead of a always being the hero. And that is really an entirely different discussion and thread and probably the issue many new players have is HOW DO YOU TRANSITION FROM SOLO GAMEPLAY TO GROUP GAMEPLAY as well as ROLES & RESPONSIBILITIES within a party.

jwdaniels
02-14-2012, 11:50 AM
Skeletor, to pick up on your last sentence the issue with transitioning a new player into how to fit into a group is often times very difficult because of everything else that you wrote in your post. If you're not interested in hearing about what spells most clerics use and why and you'd prefer to figure that out on your own, then you should stick to grouping with other, like-minded individuals anyway and hope for the best.

The way group mechanics work in this game (due to dungeon scaling) if you add more players to a group the difficulty of the quest gets harder. If you're grouping with people and aren't quite up to par, nor are you willing to listen to advice and how to do things, you're making it harder for the rest of the group.

To me, you seem to be complaining about other people that want to give you advice on how to play but then also complaining that other people don't want to help you learn how to play in a group. Apologies if I misread your post, but before you can learn to be a contributing member of a group you really do need to learn how to be at least somewhat effective playing your character.

sk3l3t0r
02-14-2012, 01:29 PM
Skeletor, to pick up on your last sentence the issue with transitioning a new player into how to fit into a group is often times very difficult because of everything else that you wrote in your post. If you're not interested in hearing about what spells most clerics use and why and you'd prefer to figure that out on your own, then you should stick to grouping with other, like-minded individuals anyway and hope for the best.

The way group mechanics work in this game (due to dungeon scaling) if you add more players to a group the difficulty of the quest gets harder. If you're grouping with people and aren't quite up to par, nor are you willing to listen to advice and how to do things, you're making it harder for the rest of the group.

To me, you seem to be complaining about other people that want to give you advice on how to play but then also complaining that other people don't want to help you learn how to play in a group. Apologies if I misread your post, but before you can learn to be a contributing member of a group you really do need to learn how to be at least somewhat effective playing your character.

Thanks jwdaniels, let me try to explain better... I think you got the message in my post even if it was long winded and repetitive...lol :) however it's not a complaint, but trying to give my perspective as a new player who really feels intimidated based on past experience in other MMORPGs. From what I can sense the community here is much more mature than in WoW and Runescape. So I would not expect as much elitism as in other games, but it exists nontheless, sometimes not intentionally because people can misterpret an act of goodwill as criticism because the amount of knowledge the vet player has is too much for the new player to handle and absorb...this is a very complex game and some people just can't wrap their head around that much information and apply it quickly, it takes time and mistakes...as much as I know we new players need to ramp up quickly, I also know vet players need to learn patience and understanding.

I feel for the thread author's furstration in wanting to help players having a hard time learning the ropes, but that he / she should also try to see the other perspective that maybe their advice is not being well received because of the language they are using, the types of words, or barriers that exist causing misunderstanding. Written communication can easily be taken out of context, what you read on the screen might not be what the other person intended to say.

Its not so much focussing on the WHAT you have to say to help them, but HOW you say it. that is a #1 cause of miscommunication in my opinion. At least that is my experience teaching and coaching in my day to day life as a parent and subject matter expert in my job.

I agree I have to be effective playing my character and the point I am making here is that HOW you play a solo / generalist build is different than HOW you play a group / specialist build. What is missing is information on the two types of play styles...I believe that we new players would be much more inclined and receptive to help if we knew that these are two unique styles and that transitioning from one to the other WILL require a new toon majority of the time, or an extreme makeover of an existing favorite toon.

Also for the record, I have yet to play in a group and have yet to receive build advice (or go looking for it...lol)...because I would be happy to make improvements to my toon, but I am not the kind of person to do something "just because" I want to know WHY I have to do it, what are the impacts of not doing it, is there an alternative way of getting almost the same results, and explaning it to me just won't cut it, I have to go and mess up, experiment and fix it to truly understand and appreciate it...something a vet player has already gone through and already knows the reasons because they lived it and experienced it.

many new players resist change and advice because they don't understand the impact of the flaws in their build until they have actually suffered a little...that is where the vet player needs to understand that yes they can just tell them how to do it, but are they really helping them? Hence the patience and understanding comment... as much as us new players want to be uber good like our veteran team mates, it takes times but we will get there with the right coaching and mentoring.

Teach a man how to fish type approach...you can just tell me how to build my toon (and give me fish) or you can explain to me WHY my build is flawed and what the impacts are (teach me how to fish)...what I find is much of the advice I have read so far is of the 1st type...vets just telling players how to build their toons without explaining to them WHY because they want to get through that raid as fast as possible because they know it in their sleep compared to the new player who may have only ran it a few times solo and don't understand the aspect of dungeon scaling.

Hope that makes it more understandable and comprehensive :)

Sleepsalot
02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
Every one has that toon that may be gimped in some ways.. I have the first 3 I ever made. Will I dump them because some one thinks they know more then I do?? NO Why?? Because they are my toons.. I made them I have made many more since then.. During the learning of the game. Some have gotten dumped. Some I have worked on to make better.. But in the end of all I make my choices on how my toons are. They work for me and that is what the game is about. I don't try to tell some one their toon is junk. Unless they ask for advice. Thing here in this game there are so many people that think only their way of building a toon is the right way. And they take time to tell others with out being asked all about how that other guys toon is so bad and will fail. People can level to 20 in this game and still not really know how to build a toon. But they had fun getting there. I don't know every thing about making a build But I know I like how mine work for me. So I guess my point is Every one has the right to learn and the way they do it..

Sleeps :D :) :D

sk3l3t0r
02-14-2012, 01:41 PM
Every one has that toon that may be gimped in some ways.. I have the first 3 I ever made. Will I dump them because some one thinks they know more then I do?? NO Why?? Because they are my toons.. I made them I have made many more since then.. During the learning of the game. Some have gotten dumped. Some I have worked on to make better.. But in the end of all I make my choices on how my toons are. They work for me and that is what the game is about. I don't try to tell some one their toon is junk. Unless they ask for advice. Thing here in this game there are so many people that think only their way of building a toon is the right way. And they take time to tell others with out being asked all about how that other guys toon is so bad and will fail. People can level to 20 in this game and still not really know how to build a toon. But they had fun getting there. I don't know every thing about making a build But I know I like how mine work for me. So I guess my point is Every one has the right to learn and the way they do it..

Sleeps :D :) :D

exactly ... my gosh someone thinks like me...*faints* :) I have no doubt I could hit level 20 on my first toon, might not be the most effective way of getting there, might be painful at times, but the journey was all the fun, not the destination !!!

countfitz
02-14-2012, 02:37 PM
So many levels of BOOOO!

First, here's what I did: I switched SERVERS. Seriously, by the time I finally figured out how to play (and at this point I only consider myself competent on self sufficient classes (Paladins/Rangers) and Divines) that I had at least 2 level 10 toons on 5 servers, and at least 1 on the rest. I stuck with Thelanis as much because it is the best server as because it was alphabetically the last one I hadn't built a poor reputation of noobishness on. In fact, I almost stayed on Sarlona with my Paladin/Fighter intimi tank, RIGHT when they "nerfed" intimi tanking AND gave paladins Intimidate as a class skill, making him obsolete and useless at the same time. So onto Thelanis I went, were I am today.


Second, you have so many other choices: LR, Greater LR, Roll an new toon and make this your MULE (I've had a few mules on Thelanis at around levels 14-18, levels I hadn't gotten to on the other servers and didn't understand, and by this point had already just invested too much to move on, plus, you know, no more servers to move to since Waylander hadn't come out yet).


Third, you could, and I've got a former Mule I'm doing this with, PUG your way to level 20 and immediately TR.


So, all "better" choices IMO.