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View Full Version : Fighting Style Toggles...



WangChi
02-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I'd like to see fighting style toggles that we can turn on/off.

Examples:

Cleric, Champion of Dol Dorn wants to use a longsword in his main hand and hold a superior potency vi scepter in his off-hand but not attack with it. He doesn't have any TWF feats and doesn't want to fight with TWF style, he just wants to hold the sceptre to gain it's benefits instead of using a shield.

Fighter has all the THF feats, but finds an amazing longsword on his travels and wants to use it with two hands instead of one to gain the benefits of his feats. He sacrifices some of the base damage that the larger two-handed weapons offer, but he gets to fight with the style of his choice.

I would like to see the following fighting style toggles:

One Handed Fighting or Sword and Board (using a shield or holding an off-hand item/weapon without attacking with it).
Two Weapon Fighting (when using two weapons - not using a shield).
Two Handed Fighting (use both hands to wield your weapon if it is not a light or small weapon).

Ungood
02-13-2012, 02:52 PM
/not signed.

Sorry, but if you use two weapons, it's expected you will fight with two weapons even abet poorly.

A single handed weapon, is a single handed weapon, a long sword is made to be used 1 handed not two, while a bastard sword can be used one or two handed that is already addressed by the devs and development staff.

Sidewaysgts86
02-14-2012, 02:56 AM
Sorry, but if you use two weapons, it's expected you will fight with two weapons even abet poorly..

Why? Says who? Why *COULDNT* someone hold an item in their offhand hand for its benefits, with the intent on only using their main-hands weapon? Because you "expect" them to swing both like an idiot? Or is there more to it? If its because "You expect them to", this answer is largely inadequate to me. This scenario is actually perfectly fine with me. In PNP cant a player holding 2 weapons choose to only attack with 1 during the round on their turn if they want to avoid the to-hit penalties associated with 2wf'ing? Why not in DDO?

On the flip side im NOT for using a long-sword as a 2 handed weapon, as its implied that the handle isnt long enough to grasp it properly with both-hands. As was pointed out already, its assumed swords like bastards swords do actually have handles long enough for the mto be grasped with both hands, and hte players have the choice of using them with 1 hand or both hands in PnP.


/signed on part of this.

Ungood
02-14-2012, 06:47 AM
Why? Says who? Why *COULDNT* someone hold an item in their offhand hand for its benefits, with the intent on only using their main-hands weapon?

Because you "expect" them to swing both like an idiot? Or is there more to it? If its because "You expect them to", this answer is largely inadequate to me. This scenario is actually perfectly fine with me. In PNP cant a player holding 2 weapons choose to only attack with 1 during the round on their turn if they want to avoid the to-hit penalties associated with 2wf'ing? Why not in DDO?

Try it sometime.

I mean that, really. go get some nerf swords or whatever, and get a friend to spar with you.

Then try that with a shield, and then try it no weapon in your off hand. Your balance will change, so will your fighting style.

Irony is, you will use your bare hand to block instinctively, which means in a D&D type setting if you did not put a weapon or shield in your off hand, you most likely would get it cut off, but, welcome to fantasy worlds, where they does not happen.

Sidewaysgts86
02-16-2012, 02:22 AM
Try it sometime...

Gladly- Just as soon as you find me a scepter of sorts that will imbue me with a +2 to my actual charisma score (or anything similar) for me to use in my off-hand. I'd better remember to tell my friend were going to trade blows 1 at a time during our respective rounds once every 6 seconds as well. That will surely give me plenty of time to think about not using my off-hand weapon while i swing with just my right.

But jokes-aside lets get realistic'ish on the matter.

If holding another weapon in my "off" hand, would i, at some point during the fight, attempt to use it to make an attack? Indeed- I probably would. I however would *not* probably swing it with 1 for 1 every time I made an attack with my "main" hand, I would only attempt to use it when I thought it would be advantageous for me to do so. This is what *would* happen in real life, this is what *does* happen in pnp (we choose when we do, and dont want the 2wf'ing penalties). There no reason this *couldnt* happen in DDO. Would it look "silly" in the specifics of the example given? Arguably- Sure. But so do a *number* of other things in a fantasy-based rpg video game. Again, I see no real "reason" it should be an issue other than you think "someone holding a weapon in their offhand should always be trying to hit with it".

I've actually wanted a feature like this myself, wishing there was just a simple hot-key I could press to switch back/forth from 1hf to 2hf and back- Letting me choose when I did, and didnt want to deal with the penalties of 2wfing.

Skavenaps
02-16-2012, 03:12 AM
i like the idea. you can do that on 3.5... hold a long sword with 2 hands its more than factible. as well use your offhand to just hold a scepter to gain some benefits.

Ungood
02-16-2012, 08:33 AM
If holding another weapon in my "off" hand, would i, at some point during the fight, attempt to use it to make an attack? Indeed- I probably would. I however would *not* probably swing it with 1 for 1 every time I made an attack with my "main" hand, I would only attempt to use it when I thought it would be advantageous for me to do so. This is what *would* happen in real life, this is what *does* happen in pnp (we choose when we do, and dont want the 2wf'ing penalties). There no reason this *couldnt* happen in DDO. Would it look "silly" in the specifics of the example given? Arguably- Sure. But so do a *number* of other things in a fantasy-based rpg video game. Again, I see no real "reason" it should be an issue other than you think "someone holding a weapon in their offhand should always be trying to hit with it".

With many things in D&D, very complex things became simplified for the sake of easy combat methods. The neg for using two weapons is a simplistic way to express far more then "trying to hit with the weapon" as it applies to both primary hand and off hand.

The reason why I asked you try is as opposed to simply just pondering what would happen, is if you had given it a try, you would have noticed that using two weapons modifies your balance for attacks with both your primary hand and your off, regardless if you were actively attacking with your off hand or not, which is where the neg to the primary hand comes from. The fact that you might try to swing with the off hand, while cute, and still having the potential to actually hit and hurt, unless you knew what you were doing with two weapons in your hands, you would do far more harm then good for your overall ability to fight by equipping two weapons specifically if you had to put active thought into not attacking with your off hand.

You will also inherently block with said off handed weapon as well, and will in most cases throw off your balance and ability to fight even more then had you just tried to dodge or hand no weapon/item in your off hand at all.


I've actually wanted a feature like this myself, wishing there was just a simple hot-key I could press to switch back/forth from 1hf to 2hf and back- Letting me choose when I did, and didnt want to deal with the penalties of 2wfing.

I found this ironic that a player would equip 2 weapons for their stat boons, and enter the fray, scepters was a fitting weapon of choice too, and is the reason why I found this rather funny, mainly because with very few exceptions the only builds that would equip 2 weapons for stat augments are caster builds.

And a caster jumping into combat is typically a sign they ran out of spell points, or are trying to conserve them against trash mobs, and in those cases, THF with Masters Touch is the better suited combat style as most TWF fighting casters, the two weapons are mostly for show and in my experience do hideously poor damage to start with even for casters that did not tank strength to start with.

Any caster that was serious about fighting or being in melee took the proper feats or supplied the proper weapons to do. Holding a baton in your off hand for a Stat Boon mostly likely means your not really geared or speced to fight, equally so, anyone speced to fight, if they opt to use two weapons, they are going to use both of them.

So, fighting like a incompetent novice, while trying to duel wield inappropriate tools for the task, and not taking the time to learn the proper feats to do so, is not only expected, it is realistic.

However, I think having a spell like Tenser's Transformation confer TWF and OTWF, would be, I believe, just the right revision to the spell to make it far more fun and handy in situations where a caster is inspired to fight in melee

WangChi
02-16-2012, 11:47 AM
With many things in D&D, very complex things became simplified for the sake of easy combat methods...

Didn't want to quote the wall of text, but I wanted to point out that you shouldn't lump clerics or FVS in with "casters" for the purposes of melee. Cleric's with the right enhancements can get some decent 1-handed DPS via extended divine power and divine favor and other gear.

My cleric has a Superior Potency VI scepter and a +4 holy silver longsword of bleeding (crafted & champ. of dol dorn), I don't care about AC, but I really want the Superior Potency VI in my offhand for blade barrier's and other damage spells while I run around slashing stuff down, to me, it makes sense that I can turn off TWF and only use the longsword if I choose.

I'm sure you are a national fencing champion or professional sword fighting instructor who knows all the ins and outs of balance when it comes to swordplay, but this is DDO, not real life, I should be able to turn off my "off-hand" if I want to.

Ungood
02-16-2012, 01:46 PM
Didn't want to quote the wall of text, but I wanted to point out that you shouldn't lump clerics or FVS in with "casters" for the purposes of melee. Cleric's with the right enhancements can get some decent 1-handed DPS via extended divine power and divine favor and other gear.

My cleric has a Superior Potency VI scepter and a +4 holy silver longsword of bleeding (crafted & champ. of dol dorn), I don't care about AC, but I really want the Superior Potency VI in my offhand for blade barrier's and other damage spells while I run around slashing stuff down, to me, it makes sense that I can turn off TWF and only use the longsword if I choose.

I know what you mean, I have a Dol Dorn cleric myself, that I have been playing with, and I have to admit it is fun. However, since as a cleric I do not take any risks of Arcane Spell failure for using shields, as such I saw no motive to use a baton, or dagger in my off hand in lieu of a Superior Potency Heavy Steel Shield of Melee Alacrity +10% (Which is easy enough to craft)

On my arcane I use two weapons, simply because of the arcane spell failure of shields. Which is why I said what I said. If there were more shields that offered 0% arcane spell failure and could offer effects like Potency, Combustion, etc, I am sure most arcane would drop the duel wielding as well, but even 5% can be the line between living and dying, so, most duel weapon users that opted to forsake the feats to use them in actual combat would most likely be Wizards and Sorcerer who get the most benefit (or perhaps just avoid the most negs, depends on how you look at it) from such a set up. As I said tho, there are of course exceptions.


I'm sure you are a national fencing champion or professional sword fighting instructor who knows all the ins and outs of balance when it comes to swordplay, but this is DDO, not real life, I should be able to turn off my "off-hand" if I want to.

Currently, you can, just don't put a weapon in it ;)

Cyr
02-16-2012, 01:54 PM
This is an interesting idea, but I have the following comments...

Why would you not want to use a weapon with both hands if you only have one weapon in your hands? I would think this should be a default function. If you swap in an off hand then of course you are no longer going THF.

Then it would only be one toggle. One which was toggled on to indicate that you wanted to only attack with one weapon. That would make it so those who were not good at TWF could use this option if they liked and have some buff weapon in the offhand (much like a shield).

Missing_Minds
02-16-2012, 02:02 PM
Why would you not want to use a weapon with both hands if you only have one weapon in your hands? I would think this should be a default function. If you swap in an off hand then of course you are no longer going THF.

Because going two handed dagger fighting would be awsome!

Cyr
02-16-2012, 02:03 PM
Because going two handed dagger fighting would be awsome!

lol it would be better then going single handed single dagger fighting :)

Once you stuck the other gimped dagger in your offhand you would automatically be TWF unless you hit the I want to just one weapon fight toggle.

Missing_Minds
02-16-2012, 02:10 PM
lol it would be better then going single handed single dagger fighting :)

Once you stuck the other gimped dagger in your offhand you would automatically be TWF unless you hit the I want to just one weapon fight toggle.

I had to tease. :) But just as funny, a rapier and two handed fighting. Can you imagine two fencers going two handed? That would just be so ridiculous.

But the whole "stance" idea suggestion is very old. I lost track of how long ago I made the same suggestion.

Just because we have a weapon in the off hand does NOT mean we are going to attack with it. Instinctively we'll block/be defensive but it does not mean we WILL attack with it.

I mean in PnP, if I used a weapon with the property of Defending, chances are very good I won't be attacking with it when I assign the bonus to be applied to my AC.

Ungood
02-16-2012, 03:58 PM
This is an interesting idea, but I have the following comments...

Why would you not want to use a weapon with both hands if you only have one weapon in your hands? I would think this should be a default function.

Well, I am not sure how some people go about things, but,You see, some weapons have large handles, and thus, require two hands to wield effectively, and other weapons are more middle of the road, where they can be gripped one or two hands, depending on the mood of the user, and other weapons just have short and even in some cases stubby little handles, and thus trying to use them two handed would just cause overlap against the hilt of the weapon.

It is a defining factor of a skilled player to be able to tell the difference between what weapon, by it's size and design, how many hands it will take to properly wield it, as using one hand where you need two, will be very exhausting and not effective at all, and trying to use two hands were only one should fit, would be downright award and even painful, in most situations.