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View Full Version : Bludgeoning weapons and the 'impact' flag/effect.



esheep
02-09-2012, 10:04 AM
We've seen some really cool bludgeoning weapons in the game, but it seems like too many of the more notable ones have the impact flag on them. For example: Tenderizer, Bonesplitter, and now (Epic) Fury of the Flame.

Don't get me wrong, the impact flag is... ok, just like the keen flag. It however detracts (or -- read: doesn't add anything) to some builds because it can already be accomplished with taking a feat. It detracts from the flavor of bludgeoning spec builds (do they exist outside of monks in DDO?) which is worth concern as the enhancement redo should create a lot more viability for various flavor builds.

If you want to add damage to the weapon please consider doing more unique things like upping the damage die by one, or widening the crit range, or increasing the critical multiplier. (I should note, I was merely using the Tenderizer as an example, it has already received some significant buffing with U12 -- you don't need to touch it...)

People are going to say this is a stupid idea -- it is the forums after all. People would also start complaining if many of the good 'bladed' weapons started coming out with 'keen' on them and make posts exactly like this (claiming that 'keen' is a crutch.)

All I'm asking is that you don't get in the habit of over-using the 'impact' flag/effect.

orakio
02-09-2012, 10:14 AM
We've seen some really cool bludgeoning weapons in the game, but it seems like too many of the more notable ones have the impact flag on them. For example: Tenderizer, Bonesplitter, and now (Epic) Fury of the Flame.

Don't get me wrong, the impact flag is... ok, just like the keen flag. It however detracts (or -- read: doesn't add anything) to some builds because it can already be accomplished with taking a feat. It detracts from the flavor of bludgeoning spec builds (do they exist outside of monks in DDO?) which is worth concern as the enhancement redo should create a lot more viability for various flavor builds.

If you want to add damage to the weapon please consider doing more unique things like upping the damage die by one, or widening the crit range, or increasing the critical multiplier. (I should note, I was merely using the Tenderizer as an example, it has already received some significant buffing with U12 -- you don't need to touch it...)

People are going to say this is a stupid idea -- it is the forums after all. People would also start complaining if many of the good 'bladed' weapons started coming out with 'keen' on them and make posts exactly like this (claiming that 'keen' is a crutch.)

All I'm asking is that you don't get in the habit of over-using the 'impact' flag/effect.

Improved Critical:Bludgeoning is really only used on acrobat staff users or monks. Most other bludgeoning weapons are used as DR beaters(they just have worse damage/crit profiles by default) and as such the impact flag is typically more useful than keen because characters are less likely to have IC:Bludgeon. Then again, most things with dr/bludgeon are also crit immune so i guess it is a moot point.

LeLoric
02-09-2012, 10:28 AM
A straight up blunt maul/warhammer build is just not viable at this time in the game and hasn't been for quite a while for the following reasons:

base dice and crit profiles - Greensteel saw a big jump for greataxe dps whereas the maul just got a increase from d6 to d8. Falchion has a much better crit profile. Same goes for warhammer when facing up againts khopesh or dwarven axe.

it has no esos - it doesn't even have an antique greataxe, there's nothing to bring thf up to par with twf khopesh. The epic named blunt items so far have been very poor dps options, hammer of life, greatclub of scrag. Theres also no epic warhammer to help bring it up to par with other fighting types. I think turbine is really missing an oppportunity to bring weapon type balance to the game through giving some really nice epic dps options to lesser used weapons.

it lost it's niche - Many people would use blunt if just for the stunning 10 but alchem at measly tier 1 really stole any thunder there.

So that really just leaves the blunt items for pulling out against a skellie or lich. Against those impact is actually kinda nice to have as they should never be at 100% fort anymore due to fortification reducers and doubling that crit chance is nice. Unfortunately none of the other stuff they have put out even comes close to beating out a trip positive so these are subpar again.

FengXian
02-09-2012, 11:32 AM
Exactly what I said in the weapon thread OP.

It has no eSoS, ok, but no blunt build will ever be viable like this, even if they do release a super-maul (because it will likely have impact on it too XD.)

The bludgeoning line was starting to see some play with old autocrit epics but now stunning blow is no longer that good, and you can have +10 stunning on slashing cannith weapons anyway so...

The point being, if they keep putting impact on every decent blunt weapon that comes out, no one will ever need IC:blunt (just monks...)

esheep
02-09-2012, 12:00 PM
Improved Critical:Bludgeoning is really only used on acrobat staff users or monks.

Yeah, you pretty much missed the point. There is already little enough reason to make a bludgeoning spec'd build... throwing 'impact' on each decent bludgeoning weapon pushes people even further from ideas about making a bludgeon spec'd toon. Since they have stated in the past that they care about multi-classing and flavor builds, it seems like a potential spot for concern, or at least an untapped niche.

InsanityIsYourFriend
02-09-2012, 12:34 PM
I agree completely, when that new greatclub came out of HOX i instantly wanted to make a blunt user but.... its not too appetizing to make a build for a single weapon, and with impact on all of them i could just make my fighter for it

edgarallanpoe
02-09-2012, 01:13 PM
It would seem to me that the impact weapons are not for toons that are bludg speced. A monk would have minimal use for a set of impact wraps. They might have their place before 12th level but again, probably not very useful.

However, given that most melee based toons are slashing based...the impact weapons will have some use for mobs that may be resistant to slash damage . I could see a ranger, or even a TWF fighter, equipping a set of impact of PG weapons to go to work on mobs. Some toons with monk splashes might find some use for them as well.

They are a flavor/situational weapon.

Not sure if that is WAI or not.

What is the min level for an impact weapon? I could see a set of ML4 impact wraps being useful for a non-twinked out first life monk. Maybe something like a bludg equivalent version of the axe from the graveyard (Carnifex?)

Fanatic_Guru
02-09-2012, 04:33 PM
A straight up blunt maul/warhammer build is just not viable at this time in the game and hasn't been for quite a while for the following reasons:


I would love to see a reason for my dwarf to have IC:blunt besides just the 'flavor' that I like the look of a dwarf with dual warhammers and the word hammer in his name.

For a bit the fact he could be a tactician with high stun DC with a +10 stun weapon was at least something but that became obsolete with +10 stunning becoming possible on slashing weapons. The change to stunning and autocrit also didn't help the idea of a stunning blunt user.

DDO needs some top-end warhammer and maul type weapons that don't have impact to at least attempt to create some weapon use diversity.

Throw us a bone... or something else blunt to whack with.