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zchristian1
02-08-2012, 08:06 PM
I'm going to start a Pre-made with 2 or 3 friends, as we used to play D&D back in the day. Since I've only played to lev 6, I'm looking for advice. What would be an ideal composition for 3 people? 4 people?

Thanks!

HarveyMilk
02-08-2012, 08:11 PM
With that many, limitless, but I'd decide either all fleshy or all WF, and have at least one divine if fleshy. One caster and one trapper and two anything is fine. The game isn't so difficult that you must have a perfect composition to run anything.

But really, coming from DnD, you would know that there are MANY great multiclass options, the hallmark of this game. Play what you personally find fun. Just be sure to plan any multiclassing out ahead of time, and run it by someone experienced.

The most effective group of 4? 3 WF sorcs, leveling up as fire savants and capped as air or water, and 1 WF 18wiz/2rogue. Everyone call heal themselves and each other, traps are covered and you do huge damage.

Kayla93
02-08-2012, 08:38 PM
If u look up to soloing
WF Wizzes or Sorcerers or Fleshy Necro Wizzards. Eventually caster builded divine. One can multiclass rogue to do traps.

If u just want to be able do quickly quests in 4 and lvl up succesfully this way:
WF Wizzes or Sorcerers or Fleshy Necro Wizzards. Eventually caster builded divine. One can multiclass rogue to do traps.



If u want balances party where everyone have their role:
1 divine
1 rogue (or rogue multiclass...but i guess u dont have high lvl gear as u have max 6 lvl toon, so going at leat 13 lvls of rogue is a good idea)
1 wizz/sorc (more up to wizz, to try out all spells and have some CC)
1 any (maybe monk/fighter, so rogue in group can get full SA dmg taking no agro).

But true is all self healers are easier to play/solo/group.

Zirun
02-08-2012, 08:48 PM
Well, with 4 people, you could probably have everybody play what they want and be relatively fine depending on what everybody plays. Here are some of the important things:

1) Healing.

Everybody needs to have access to healing. That means:

a) Everybody be Warforged (or self-healing class, those being Bard, Cleric, Favored Soul, Artificer, Ranger, Paladin, and possibly Monk, though with the latter 4 you have to be more careful with their limited healing), then a Wizard or Sorcerer, perhaps even an Artificer, can fill the healing role well enough.
b) Everybody be a Pale Master (or self-healing class), and you should literally be able to waltz through all content with 3-4 Death Auras running and Negative Energy Bursts out the wazoo.
or
c) At least one person with most (18-20 out of 20 if you're doing end-game stuff) of their levels in Bard, Cleric, Favored Soul.

Depending on how far you are taking the group, you might not even need this. If you have no aspirations to do end-game Elites and raids, you could get away with less than a dedicated healer if others are willing to heal with wands/pots.

2) Traps.

You're going to want to disable them. That means:

a) Artificer
b) Rogue
or
c) Somebody with a high Int and a class with a lot of skill points (Ranger, Bard) takes at least one level of the aforementioned classes.

Again, you don't even need to disable traps if you're just playing casually. Traps are very deadly on Elite, but are mostly fairly easy to live through in Normal quests. If all else fails, buff up, run and jump through, and carry any soulstones that drop to the next shrine. :P

After that, it really doesn't matter what you play. As long as you've got those two major things covered, you can play 10 Sorc/10 Barbarian all you want and still be alright. Other important things like a tank, CC, etc. can be easily fit into various builds (Barbs can have Stunning Blow and Trip for CC, Bards have amazing CC to go along with their healing and buffing, Wizards and Sorcs can have great CC to go along with their nuking and perhaps healing...).

Basically, just figure out what everybody wants to play and make characters that do those things for them. It's unlikely that there's no way for 4 people playing what they want to heal and disable traps, especially since you can easily fit those things onto various build styles (melee Cleric/Favored Soul/Bard, Rogue-splashed Ranger, various Arcane Archer builds with lots of Rogue/Cleric/Favored Soul/Bard levels...)

So, yeah, just ask everybody what types of characters they'd prefer to play and let the knowledgeable people of the forums give you all the party compositions you could ever want!

DavionFuxa
02-08-2012, 10:40 PM
If your looking for a balanced party, then:

3 People - 1 Supportive, 1 Damager, 1 Tactical. You can take that however you want but I find it's a good set up if your group follows that sort of order. IE, if you have a Bard/Divine (Support), a Melee (Damager), and an Arcane Caster/Rogue/Artificer (Tactical) then you can come up with many strategies for yoru party to utilize.

4 People - 1 Divine, 1 Arcane, 1 DPS, 1 Trapper is fairly safe.

Mithril_Hand
02-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Since your friends will be new to the game, i'll try to keep my suggestions simple as I possibly can.

1) Barbarian (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2775734&postcount=3)
First of all is the melee DPS and Barbarians do it best. Barb innate DR and high HP is a plus too. Not much to say here. Rage, frenzy, etc then kill everything in sight. I considered Fighter or Paladin but Barbarians are the easiest to pick up of the three imho. Go Dwarf for the bonus axe damage and because it's free. H-orc or WF if you want though.

2) Cleric (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2775730&postcount=2)
Who doesn't love a good hjealer to take care of all the perforated aortas and other injuries? Don't forget you still have various CC spells, blade barrier, divine punishment, etc that can get you out of problems healing alone won't solve. You can make a battlecleric if you prefer that but playing a Cleric as a caster is simpler and should be easier to gear.

3) Wizard (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2882881&postcount=91)
Doesn't have the nuking power of a Sorcerer but the ability to swap spells in taverns and after resting is invaluable for new players. It lets you play around with your spells and determine which ones are good, which ones are situational and which ones weren't even worth adding to your repertoire of spells. In any case, your party now has someone to do CC, nuke, buff and later on instakill. Pale master is probably better (and it heals itself too) but Archmage's SLAs lets you spam hypno, web, grease (a party buff!), etc depending on your focus. If you only have three people, you can go 18 Wizard/2 Rogue instead though.

4) Rogue (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2782313&postcount=5)
Last, but not least, the Rogue (not to be confused with rouge). Elite traps really hurt and who doesn't like an xp bonus for trap disarming? While not disarming traps, you can do a lot of damage through sneak attacks. With enough UMD your versatility will greatly improve and you can heal, raise dead, grease, etc.

The links go to Tihocan's revisited paths (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2775730). They haven't been updated in a while but should still be helpful. Good luck to you and your friends!

Ryiah
02-09-2012, 09:15 AM
Nobody has suggested this yet, but you could just fill the remaining party slots with hirelings. I'm on a life with my completionist running with a semi-static guild group of three to four people and we're just filling the remaining slots with divine hirelings. Hasn't been a problem yet and we've been running elite only.

C-Hound
02-09-2012, 01:14 PM
Nobody has suggested this yet, but you could just fill the remaining party slots with hirelings...
Good point. I've seen more than one PUG (pick-up group) where the Cleric hireling did a better job of healing than some Player models. ymmv if you have a dedicated and competent Player healbot, but it's something to consider.


4) Rogue (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2782313&postcount=5)
Last, but not least
It should be mentioned that, while multi-classing can easily be a disaster for someone new to DDO*, there are some excellent ''trapmonkey'' builds out there that have traps/locks covered but enjoy a different ''primary'' function.

(* It does NOT work the same as in tabletop D&D!)

Use the Advanced Search and search the Class/Specialist and Class/multi-class subforums for ''trapmonkey'' or "rogue (& class of choice)" - you should find something to suit.

Also note that "archers" are not, as a rule, as tough in dealing damage as in D&D. Rangers can be a good mix there, solid 2-weapon melee and solid range when it's desired. Lots of forum discussion pro/con on this topic too.

Lastly, read the forums for models to build from. Even if you don't follow the blueprint, there are elements to DDO that are not found in D&D, and it's easy to build a "D&D" character that just sucks in DDO.

Grab the character planner and plan your characters out to Lvl 20 - easy to level up to a dead-end without knowing where you're going.

zchristian1
02-11-2012, 09:56 AM
Which is better for the arcane slot:wizard or sorc?

Failedlegend
02-11-2012, 11:11 AM
Well the following roles need to be fufilled

1. Aggro Magnet
2. Trapsmither
3. Healer (or have everyone self-reliant)
4. Damage Dealer
5. Buffer

I'd say:

1. Wizard18/Rogue2: Covers you main buffing and trap skills...rogue levels at 1 & 11 to keep rogue skills up...Archmage if WF, Palemaster if fleshy

2. Paladin18/Fighter2: Uses D-Axe/B-Sword and Board when the extra defenses are needed otherwise wields a 2-Hander...Defender of Syberis PrE

3. Bard20 Warchanter: Use any non-exotic weapon...masters touch until WC2 than use the enhancement for your preferred weapon

4. This one is pretty flexible any damage dealer... but since there isn't one I'd say make this a ranged character, normally I recommended an AA/10K Monk/Fighter build but since your probably lacking equipment,funds etc. your probably better off with a Pure Arty

Race Wise I'd say WF Wiz, Dwarven Pally, Half-Orc Bard & Halfling Arty...this group will be quite powerful as all builds can easily self-heal, you have 4 Buffing Classes, All 4 Builds can put out a good amount of damage and you've got 1 1/2 damage soakers (the 1/2 = the Arty Pet) and the wizard can easily Handle the traps.

Maelodic
02-11-2012, 12:47 PM
The very best thing you can do is four necromancers. Every second every party member is healed around 80 and you'll be doing super damage. Splash rouge for traps in one.

Failedlegend
02-11-2012, 01:18 PM
OP your best bet is to ask THEM what they want to play or at least what they want to try...you could be the most powerful foursome ever created but if you don't like you character you not going to get very far.

When you have that come back to us and we'll try to work within the parameters you set.

Also you first group of characters likely won't be your last the only way you can determine your preferred playstyle...is to well play

zchristian1
02-11-2012, 03:34 PM
OP your best bet is to ask THEM what they want to play or at least what they want to try...you could be the most powerful foursome ever created but if you don't like you character you not going to get very far.

When you have that come back to us and we'll try to work within the parameters you set.

Also you first group of characters likely won't be your last the only way you can determine your preferred playstyle...is to well play
Okay, I've got:
1. Rogue, who will likely dual class as a ranger
2. Tank: barb or paladin
3. Wizard likely
4. Me: what are my best healing choices?

If our #2 plays a ranger, what should our #'s 3 and 4 be? Do you really need a tank in DDO?

Thanks!

Demaril
02-11-2012, 04:16 PM
plenty of good sugestions and i dont have any better ones so i wont try but, if by pre made you mean turbine built do not do it! seriously the pre built toons are fricken awfull if you know how to play D&D you should be able to design your own build once youve decided on class and roles etc just note that sorc primary stat is cha not int as it is in D&D (i think) Con is very important dont go below like 14 on any class pump the main stat up fairly high if not max and then just treat it like a D&D toon sure theres a bit more to it but just that alone will make your toon better than pre made ones

zchristian1
02-11-2012, 05:12 PM
plenty of good sugestions and i dont have any better ones so i wont try but, if by pre made you mean turbine built do not do it! seriously the pre built toons are fricken awfull if you know how to play D&D you should be able to design your own build once youve decided on class and roles etc just note that sorc primary stat is cha not int as it is in D&D (i think) Con is very important dont go below like 14 on any class pump the main stat up fairly high if not max and then just treat it like a D&D toon sure theres a bit more to it but just that alone will make your toon better than pre made ones

No, I'm not using their premade builds. I'm playing with 3 people I know and we'll be questing together.

Zirun
02-11-2012, 05:24 PM
Honestly, and I'll probably get some flak for saying this, Constitution doesn't matter as much if you're only playing with friends casually. And that's only if you're just playing with friends; PuGs will have a much lower tolerance for low HP than some friends. It still matters, but you don't need to go nearly as balls-to-the-wall to get HP as you do

Constitution matters much less at lower levels (since you get 1 HP per level per 2 points of Con), when you're not raiding (you really don't need a whole lot of HP in normal quests, save some really tough Elites. You should still get as much as you can, though), and when you're playing with friends (dying won't matter as much).

That means you can get away with 14, 12, maybe even 10 Con if you need something like Int (for skills on a Rogue splash) or Dex on something like a S&B Paladin tank looking to get good AC.

You can also have lower than max Str on melee builds, Int/Wis/Cha on casting builds, etc. There's a lot more leeway if you're playing in a static group with friends. Unless you have some hardcore friends, that is. Class splits and build goals are also more flexible; something like a Sorc with traps skills isn't nearly as outlandish in a static group as it is in a PuG.

LOOON375
02-11-2012, 05:33 PM
Im in a 3 man guild. When we started out, we just created the class of toon that we each wanted to play and we each took a divine hireling and played the game.

If you do this, you can all play pretty much any class and succeed at completing most of the content in the game.

By doing this, we were able to learn about the game and about the different classes and how they worked.

You may find that you don't like to play a certain class, or you might find that you aren't quite ready to play a caster yet.

Try different things, explore the game, and most importantly........have fun.

Failedlegend
02-11-2012, 05:52 PM
Im in a 3 man guild. When we started out, we just created the class of toon that we each wanted to play and we each took a divine hireling and played the game.

If you do this, you can all play pretty much any class and succeed at completing most of the content in the game.

By doing this, we were able to learn about the game and about the different classes and how they worked.

You may find that you don't like to play a certain class, or you might find that you aren't quite ready to play a caster yet.

Try different things, explore the game, and most importantly........have fun.

Same thing with my static group/guild (3 people - Sibling Rivalry on Orien) :D took a few tries for everyone to figure out what they wanted to play but eventually we got things down and were having a blast...in cases we need some healing a hireling or two suffices

unbongwah
02-11-2012, 06:51 PM
1. Rogue, who will likely dual class as a ranger
2. Tank: barb or paladin
3. Wizard likely
4. Me: what are my best healing choices?
1. Have a look at my Tempest trapmonkey in my sig.
2. Have a look at Shade's barb guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=296816) and Junts's pally guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542). Although if your friend wants a classic S&B tank, I'd say pure ftr is the best choice for a 28-pt F2P build.
3. Pure wizard? Usual advice is to go Pale Master if fleshie (for F2P, human is probably best, but honestly any race works OK for a 1st life wizard) or Archmage if Warforged. The caster forums are swimming in builds.
4. If F2P, cleric is the obvious choice. Have a look at sirgog's cleric build catalog (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223253). Favored Soul is also an option if you unlock it.

Finally, don't forget to stop by tihocan's revisiting paths thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660).

Hope you and your friends enjoy the game. :)

zex95966
02-11-2012, 10:18 PM
My ideal 4:

Dwarf Barbarian
Warforged Wizard
Human Rogue
Human Cleric

Would cover everything needed. That gives you 2 melee and 2 casters - I did that on purpose since I have no idea of you or your groups preferences.

If it was just 3 people:
Dwarf Barbarian
Human Wizard (splashing 2 rogue)
Human Cleric

Failedlegend
02-11-2012, 10:58 PM
My ideal 4:

Dwarf Barbarian
Warforged Wizard
Human Rogue
Human Cleric

Would cover everything needed. That gives you 2 melee and 2 casters - I did that on purpose since I have no idea of you or your groups preferences.

If it was just 3 people:
Dwarf Barbarian
Human Wizard (splashing 2 rogue)
Human Cleric

I still say power wise you best bet is

Wizard18/Rogue2 or Wiz20 (WF AM or Fleshy PM)

Dwarven Paladin18/Fighter2 or Barbarian 20

Bard20 (Warchanter)

Arty20

but it all comes down to what you feel like playing...if you stick to normal/hard all but the most innane builds can make it just fine to 20...not so much Epics though

dredre9987
02-11-2012, 11:01 PM
Stay away from the Pre-made Paths....most are still wonky

zchristian1
02-12-2012, 08:53 AM
I still say power wise you best bet is

Wizard18/Rogue2 or Wiz20 (WF AM or Fleshy PM)

Dwarven Paladin18/Fighter2 or Barbarian 20

Bard20 (Warchanter)

Arty20

but it all comes down to what you feel like playing...if you stick to normal/hard all but the most innane builds can make it just fine to 20...not so much Epics though
Two questions:
1. Who does the healing? The bard can keep up?

2. What is the difference in play style between the Dwarven Paladin18/Fighter2 and the Barbarian 20? I know the paladin gets group buffs, great resists and LOH, but that's about it.

Thanks!

Failedlegend
02-12-2012, 09:12 AM
Two questions:
1. Who does the healing? The bard can keep up?

2. What is the difference in play style between the Dwarven Paladin18/Fighter2 and the Barbarian 20? I know the paladin gets group buffs, great resists and LOH, but that's about it.

Thanks!

Healing...?

WF Wiz or Fleshy PM = Self-Heal

Paladin = Self Heal

Bard = Self Heal

Arty = Self Heal

Healing covered and if all else fails grab a hireling or two


What is the difference between a Barb and a Paladin?

Well the Paladin relies on short term buffs and clickies for his damage but gets alot of self-healing/buffing out of the deal while assisting....he also needs to spread his build point fairly thin with the need for high Str/Con/Cha and maybe a FEW points in Wisdom but not required. Lastly the DoS PRe gives you some awesome bonuses to your defenses and HP with KotC and Hotd giving some bonuses against evil and undead creatures

The Barbarian is alot simpler his damage is just plain raw power he has the ability to obtain ridiculous Str scores especially when raging...he also only really needs Str/Con so that can be easily maxed out but of course he doesn't get any self-healing/buffing and doesn't have an aura that helps out the party...you'll practically be attached at the hip to your cleric hireling especially since your only available Prestige Frenzy Barb is a self-damaging one..its worth it for the huge damage output boost but it hurts.

It's basically Raw Power vs. Utility both can put out decent damage although the barbarian is the clear superior in that regard but a dead barb does no damage...know what I mean.

GlorifyQuC
02-12-2012, 03:09 PM
Arcane: Sorc or wizard
Divine: Healer
Mdps: Monk/barb/fighter/etc
Trapper: Arti/rogue

Kayla93
02-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Okay, I've got:
1. Rogue, who will likely dual class as a ranger
2. Tank: barb or paladin
3. Wizard likely
4. Me: what are my best healing choices?

If our #2 plays a ranger, what should our #'s 3 and 4 be? Do you really need a tank in DDO?

Thanks!

1. Pretty fine. But bebter to do even if multiclass with ranger TWF character, not a ranged. But wel... ranged is not bad too if someone likes it.

2. Please no barb. Especially as a tank. I tell this as a divine ;). Every time i have barb in group i have felling that its just big bag of hitpoints with good dps. But fioghter can do the same. Paladin can be good also. But paladin and fighter can get good AC, paladin can get any self healing too.

3. Good. As others said. PM if fleshy, AM if WF. Concentrate on enchantment/necromancy. Eventually conjuration.

4. About divine. Depends if u want to be a healbot or fight too. And if fight too as a caster or as an melee.
If healbot just go cleric. (really NOT recommended)
Of offensive caster go favored soul. (jist from aura getting non-shown, but working +2 DC +2 spell pen).
If melee....
17cleric/3monk is a good one. Or sometimes i see 18 cleric/2monk
Also 20 lvl WF Favored Soul with greatswords works sweet.
And as a melee remember to pick divine power spell. U wont do dmg as barb or fighter, and no prestige here, but good choice too.
Honestly - caster is more powerfull later on, instantkills, full dmg BB and prestige. But u play nostly a healbot up to lvl 10-11, then start to being super-powered. Minus is to fight u also use mana. So have to be carefull to leave enough for healing.


And I think its better to not go healbot, as its boring. U can heal all party fine AND do dps. No sense in sticking only to one role.

About tank.... tank is usefull but u dont really have to have one in your 4 people group. U really need tank mostly for epic raids, and for non-epic high lvl raids like Lord of Blades or Vision of Destruction. But cathcing tank is not as difficult as catching a healer, trapper or CC (wizzard).
And its honestly more fun do lvl up DPS class than lvl up a tank. For melee monks are really fun if u can afford one.

FrozenNova
02-12-2012, 06:21 PM
It doesn't really matter what you play, you can muddle through with just about anything provided you have the basics.

A straightforward barbarian / rogue / wizard / caster cleric would most likely be best both in terms of versatality and strength in all areas. It has everything, and it has it in truckloads.

Barbarians in DDO are certainly not fragile. They need a cleric by their side, but that's very different to being fragile. They serve the occasional tank role perfectly well. For reference, a 'tank' is rarely needed in usual content, but it's good to have at least one melee that isn't afraid of holding agro.
I'd probably advise against picking a paladin. Paladins excel at not having a healer beside them, and that's about it. In a group with one agro-holding melee, however, they do have the healer beside them. A group like this is definitely the barbarian's element.

Solmage
02-12-2012, 06:26 PM
I'm going to go with the following recommendation:

Max strength max hitpoint cleric. Splash 2-3 levels of monk if available, and use handwraps or stay pure and burn a feat on your fav weapon, probably a maul or greataxe.

OR

A max wisdom human evoker cleric also with good hitpoints. Monk splash may still be a good idea for evasion at higher levels.

A rogue or an artificer if the class is available, for traps and ranged DPS. Arti's better since it benefits the entire party, and doesn't need to have the target be sneak attack-able to do good damage.

Palemaster wizard (drow, elf, human) or warforged archmage for crowd control and insta-killing goodness.

A halforc or dwarven or human barbarian. Warforged also works well but it's very hard to get the healing amplification up to good levels on them, so this would likely only be good option if you also went with a warforged wizard and the wizard didn't mind becoming the main healer during end boss fights/raids.

With the barbarian tanking, the rogue or artificer and wizard and cleric supplying additional DPS, you can beat almost any quest in the game and most raids.

zex95966
02-12-2012, 08:48 PM
Barbs aren't just a bag of HP with high dps... but both of those things are true and both of them are really important.
for a first life toon, barbs imo beat fighters any day of the week.
Fighters have access to heavy armor, but AC is a joke on a first lifer and even on TR'ed vets, they are invariably giving up DPS for it. They are easy to build... strength and con that's all you want. You get more skill points than a fighter which also means for a first lifer, you can make some stupid mistakes, but your chances are higher to pick a couple of good skills.

Feats are the only thing a barb is a bit short of vs the fighter. The problem is, splashing 2 fighter lets you wear heavy armor and get plenty of feats on a Barb.
You have higher will save... this is mostly important if your soloing a lot, which you won't be, but early game it's useful. Late game fighter has higher reflex than barb (due to kensai) which is more important, but not 200 hp and +4 will save important. (vs a barb in rage, and they can be perma raged.)

Let me break down the feats that you need:
Toughness
Two handed fighting or two weapon fighting (THF or TWF)
Stunning blow (even without specializing in it, it's pretty effective.) <--- this is the feat to drop if your a barb)
Power Attack
Improved Critical: Slashing
ITHF or ITWF
GTHF or GTWF
+Whatever your prestige requires.

as a barb your one feat short from getting it all, making you drop stunning blow. Is it worth 200 hp and 4 will save? No.
18 barb/2 fighter will let you take it, and keep a huge HP pool plus take one other feat on top of it.

fighters get a ton more feats, but what are they gonna spend it on? There isn't much after you have taken the above. Besides, their prestige requires weapon focus slashing and weapon specialization slashing. Negating 2 of those feats.

I haven't played a pally, namely because I want to TR to make one. I don't suggest them because they aren't new-player friendly. They are very stat starved, 28 points is just yuck. They want Charisma, Strength and Con. and if they aren't human prob at least 10 INT so they can take Intimidate and UMD.

They require a lot more clickies than a something like a barb does and even something "simple" like a barb is going to have tons of bars worth of clickies. you need different weapons, different hotswaps for various other equipment, your rages of course, your prestige stuff, your potions...
all the while you are making sure to attack the right foes, pay attention to who has aggro so you can take it off them, raging...
yeah even a "simple" character like a barbarian has plenty to do. Anyone who says otherwise, is not a good barb.

btw this is coming from a guy who made his first char a fighter kensai. I wish I was a barb though, soon I will TR him... (after grinding out plat) prob into a pally, I have a low level barb already in the works and he doesn't really need the stat points that the TR would give him.

Dwarfo
02-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Which is better for the arcane slot:wizard or sorc?

If you plan on just playing content 1-19, not endgame/epics, a first life sorc is probly better than a sorc. Alot more SP to burn and does a **** load of damage.

edit: ^ second sentence is supposed to be wizzie...ill just leave it for laughs.

yawumpus
02-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Okay, I've got:
1. Rogue, who will likely dual class as a ranger
2. Tank: barb or paladin
3. Wizard likely
4. Me: what are my best healing choices?

If our #2 plays a ranger, what should our #'s 3 and 4 be? Do you really need a tank in DDO?

Thanks!

No, a team of four players never need a tank. Some 12 man raids do, some don't and it rarely requires a "tank build". If you have a rogue, it will certainly help if one of the other players "tanks", but I would recommend using either a ranger/rogue or wizard/rogue. A tank certainly won't hurt the team, although it is entirely possible that both the ranger and the barbarian would want to tank (I doubt the ranger could have the skill points lying around to take intimidate, mine certainly didn't). When the barbarian has his DR boost activated he becomes nearly invincible (low levels only), when he doesn't the ranger probably makes a better tank. A paladin can pretty much always tank, but without pure rogues and barbarians to take attacks from, much of this would be wasted in this group.

DDO roles are largely built around Dungeons & Dragons roles. What another game might call for a tank, D&D stuffs a "meatshield" in front who hacks away. Barbarians "tank" by having large enough hit point reservoirs so that the cleric can heal efficiently. Paladins tank a bit more traditionally (but still deal out their share of damage) by not taking so much damage, and healing themselves in a pinch. Rogues (and maybe sorcerers) are the only MMO-style strikers out there. This is why there is a bit of resistance to beginner rogues, they have to manage agro in a game that isn't built around agro (everybody should manage their agro, it's just that rogues tend to die the second they get it wrong). Everybody should make sure they can do as much dps as possible, without comprising their needed roles (ex-WoW players are notorious for throwing hissyfits when the cleric mace-slaps an ogre). If possible, players should try to manage self-healing as well.

While the "prebuilt paths" you get when creating a character (other than hitting the "custom" button) have all sorts of mistakes built-in, just jumping in and building a character involves plenty of ways to gimp yourself in ways that won't be obvious until you've sunk a month and won't be able to catch up to the rest of the team if you reroll. I'd at least build something close to those recommended (it is hard to go wrong with Tihocan's paths* (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660)). Even if the rules appear to be straight out of D&D 3.5, they are entirely different worlds: your build must contain toughness. You might get away with leaving it off for a few levels (make sure it is there by 12), but unlike pen & paper, toughness is mandatory - not gimped (never mind the exception. It isn't where a newbie is likely to ignore toughness).

* after further review and checking Tihocan's suggestions for a cleric, I would look elsewhere for a cleric. Max wisdom, make sure constitution is at least 14 (16 if dwarf) and you have enough intelligence to put skill points in concentration and balance (human clerics don't require any points in intelligence for this). Put the rest in strength. Take toughness and some other feat (not mental toughness, extend is better. Greataxe proficiency is probably even better, especially since you can use bull's strength spell (and wands) at level 3). Take empowered healing at 3rd and maximize at 6th (mostly for killing undead with bursts). By that time you should have some idea of what a cleric needs from other reading.

NaturalHazard
02-13-2012, 12:02 AM
If you plan on just playing content 1-19, not endgame/epics, a first life sorc is probly better than a sorc. Alot more SP to burn and does a **** load of damage.

????

DavionFuxa
02-13-2012, 12:54 AM
????

Judging from his second sentence, he's saying a Sorcerer is better then a Wizard for levels 1-19 because it has more mana and does a lot of damage.

zex95966
02-13-2012, 03:45 AM
Judging from his second sentence, he's saying a Sorcerer is better then a Wizard for levels 1-19 because it has more mana and does a lot of damage.

I'd agree with it too.

zchristian1
02-13-2012, 11:41 AM
It appears there are conflicting opinions on barbarians as the "tank" or a 4th person to finish out the group.

Right now the grip will be:
1. Rogue/with some ranger
2. Ranger TWF
3. Cleric
4. Me: was going to go barb, but thinking it's not as important as I originally thought to have a "tank". So, the # 3 and 4 slots are still flexible. We thought we would try to have a dedicated healer and not use hirelings, if possible. We both have 32 point unlocked and access to Drow.

Thanks.

yawumpus
02-13-2012, 12:01 PM
With that crew, you can be pretty much whatever you want. A barbarian need hardly tank, they typically function as pure DPS (quite a bit more than a ranger). My idea of balance would be some sort of arcane caster (sorcerer or wizard). I'd lean toward a human sorcerer (and avoid drow for anything not to specialized), but (necro) wizards work well if you aren't sure the cleric will always show up.

Also, "rogue with some ranger levels" screams a recipe for a gimp. A ranger gets greater two-handed fighting after 12 levels of ranger. A rogue absolutely needs this, and if he tries to take it early (and presumably swap it out later) he needs to get to 17 dexterity, a huge waste on a ranger (rangers don't need any dexterity for GTWF and IPS). Most builds of this type would go 1 rogue/12 ranger (with possibly few rogue levels in between for skills)/7 rogue (with maybe two levels of fighter for feats and enhancements). Pure rogue would make more sense if you want more rogue levels early. And always, Ron's character generator (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/) is your friend here.

DavionFuxa
02-13-2012, 12:13 PM
Having a Ranger/Rogue is fine but as stated you should be careful of multiclasses as they can sometimes not work out too well (it can work though), a solid Ranger isn't going to be the best melee but it will work well enough that you can go with it. If your other friend goes Cleric then you should make yourself a Sorcerer or a Wizard to deal with the Arcane spells (Haste, Displacement, and all the other goodies). You don't have to make your group optimal, you just have to make it capable of working.

Also note that if you have 32 Pointers accessible but not Warforged, Half-elf, etc; I highly suggest the Cleric be Human due to the lack of feats this way and that. For Wizard, I will say an Archmage fleshy will work fine but you should only go Human if you are really against going Pale Master - if your fine with following the beaten path then many of the races will work alright as a Pale Master. If you take up yaw's suggestion and go Sorcerer then Human would be your best bet.

Make a note that depending on the Rogue/Ranger - making a 18 Wizard/2Rogue split can be a viable trapper for yourself if all else fails. This will hurt your spellcasting but at least traps will be less of an issue.

mwgarn
02-13-2012, 01:09 PM
It appears there are conflicting opinions on barbarians as the "tank" or a 4th person to finish out the group.

Right now the grip will be:
1. Rogue/with some ranger
2. Ranger TWF
3. Cleric
4. Me: was going to go barb, but thinking it's not as important as I originally thought to have a "tank". So, the # 3 and 4 slots are still flexible. We thought we would try to have a dedicated healer and not use hirelings, if possible. We both have 32 point unlocked and access to Drow.

Thanks.

If they are set on rangers I like the exploiter build and dwarves :)
1. 18 ranger/1 rogue/1 fighter(monk is better if they have it) dwarf
2. 20 ranger dwarf cause they are cool
3. 20 cleric half elf with fighter delineator
4. 20 bard/wizard/sorc cause arcane buffs like haste and rage rock..

*exploiter might be a bit dated but I still like the build, if bard for arcane can be war chanter for more melee buffs via songs and if war chanter then a split build might be better idk much about bards...

zex95966
02-13-2012, 01:22 PM
It appears there are conflicting opinions on barbarians as the "tank" or a 4th person to finish out the group.

Right now the grip will be:
1. Rogue/with some ranger
2. Ranger TWF
3. Cleric
4. Me: was going to go barb, but thinking it's not as important as I originally thought to have a "tank". So, the # 3 and 4 slots are still flexible. We thought we would try to have a dedicated healer and not use hirelings, if possible. We both have 32 point unlocked and access to Drow.

Thanks.

Ranger with some rogue (1 or 2 levels) is oodles better than rogue with some ranger.
It eliminates the need for a rogue if you splash it in a ranger.

I'd go 1 rogue 1 fighter.
1 rogue 1 barb is also fun.

also ranger is one of the few classes that loses nothing from multiclassing a level.
everything else has a nice capstone. even ranged AA builds tend to be 18 fighter...

so with trapskills taken care of by your ranger, you only need a cleric, a sorc (or wiz)
then... whatever you want.
personally I like a second melee so that when things get to hot for your only melee, you can switch the aggro to your other one.

bards are good fun btw - jack of all trades if your not sure at all what to do... they can be good at anything.

Dwarfo
02-13-2012, 04:24 PM
????

LOL my mistake, meant to say wizard...didnt get alot of sleep.