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Clayness
02-08-2012, 07:27 AM
I know this will be a non-issue to most experienced players, but it will be a tremendous boon to new players. The paths are absolutely horrendous. Had a friend make a character to play with me, and I think he made it to level 4 or 5 before he asked me if he should just continue on the path he had picked when levelling up, and I naturally was a bit baffled because I had entirely forgot this game had paths. Turns out he had picked the Deepwood Sniper path. I then looked up the path on the compendium.. and boy was I glad I stopped him from going any further down that path.

Ranged ranger that for some baffling reason picks Mental Toughness and Extend Spell :S

But at least Deepwood Sniper has a Toughness feat in it, unlike Tempest.. the melee build, which has none. And Deepwood Sniper gets that endlessly useful Favored Enemy: Reptilian.

I then started looking over the other paths and boy are some of them dangerous. Toughness seems to be entirely absent from the majority of caster and rogue builds. But hey, Hamstring is just as good as Toughness.

The dark monk path has no two-weapon fighting feats.. but takes two-handed fighting at lvl 18 (and no other two-handed feats). Light monk path is just as horrendous, but at least it takes.. the first tier of two-weapon fighting.. at level 18. After all, those juicy cleave and greater cleave feats are far more useful on a light monk.

And they are all like this. Every single one. Sorcerer with Combat Casting and Evocation Focus, but no Heighten or Toughness. Sorcerer with Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness and Enlarge Spell.. and again, no Heighten, no Spell Penetration, no Toughness. Generally that Enlarge Spell sneaks its way into most of the arcane paths.

Please save the newbies!

sirgog
02-08-2012, 07:48 AM
/signed.

IMO instead of 'pick class, then pick path, then pick race', it should go more like this:

1) Pick class
2) Pick path
3) Game asks you one or two additional questions then recommends a sub-path
4) Game chooses race for you.
5) Game handles enhancements as well as class levels. At any time you can reset enhancements via a trainer to 'get off the path' for AP (while remaining on it for everything else), and trainers also offer a 'suggest enhancements for me' option at all times if you've remained on a path.

So it would go something like this:

- Player chooses the Wizard class.
- Two paths offered, Pale Master and Archmage, with a flavor and gameplay description of both.
e.g. 'The Pale Master is a potent necromancer, master of the very forces of life and death. Eventually their studies into necromancy will let them transform themselves into undead.' and 'The Pale Master uses necromatic magic to heal themselves and snuff out their enemies.'
- The player chooses Pale Master and sees a list of sub-paths - a Human 'Dark Enchanter' build that uses their extra racial feat to help them 'offspec' into Enchantment spells, invests in Spell Penetration feats and fire and lightning enhancements, a Drow 'Shadowspinner' build that 'offspecs' into Conjuration for Web and Acid spells, and maybe a third and fourth 'sub-path'. Among the enhancements chosen would always be tier 2 Racial Toughness.
- These sub-paths define your race, so you can't do anything really silly, like making a Half-Orc Sorcerer.

MartinusWyllt
02-08-2012, 07:57 AM
I'd like to see paths include multiclassing/splashing like Tihocan's thread does.

Tembyr
02-08-2012, 09:38 AM
I like Sirgog's idea, but would oppose multi-classing in the path selection. For the DIY builders there is custom builds, for predefined paths you want to get people started quickly and keep it simple. You want people to step right into the game with a decent build by asking a minimum of questions to get the player a toon of his liking. By adding multi-class or splashes you open up a whole new area and too much questions and options would need to be added to make it work, defeating the purpose of the 'keeping it simple and step right in' paths.

danotmano1998
02-08-2012, 09:43 AM
Really, these should already have been fixed.
The community responded overwhelmingly on the "Class Builds 101" topics.
Not to mention I remember a whole thread on "Fixing the prebuilt builds".

If they redid some of those paths to what was suggested in these, I think they'd be a LOT better off than what they are now..

But hey, I've always heard the wisdom that you learn more from your mistakes than your success. If that's true, then following the path of the gimp is a good way to start, no?

(j/k, yes to getting some decent paths)

brightfang
02-08-2012, 11:32 AM
/signed.

IMO instead of 'pick class, then pick path, then pick race', it should go more like this:

1) Pick class
2) Pick path
3) Game asks you one or two additional questions then recommends a sub-path
4) Game chooses race for you.
5) Game handles enhancements as well as class levels. At any time you can reset enhancements via a trainer to 'get off the path' for AP (while remaining on it for everything else), and trainers also offer a 'suggest enhancements for me' option at all times if you've remained on a path.

So it would go something like this:

- Player chooses the Wizard class.
- Two paths offered, Pale Master and Archmage, with a flavor and gameplay description of both.
e.g. 'The Pale Master is a potent necromancer, master of the very forces of life and death. Eventually their studies into necromancy will let them transform themselves into undead.' and 'The Pale Master uses necromatic magic to heal themselves and snuff out their enemies.'
- The player chooses Pale Master and sees a list of sub-paths - a Human 'Dark Enchanter' build that uses their extra racial feat to help them 'offspec' into Enchantment spells, invests in Spell Penetration feats and fire and lightning enhancements, a Drow 'Shadowspinner' build that 'offspecs' into Conjuration for Web and Acid spells, and maybe a third and fourth 'sub-path'. Among the enhancements chosen would always be tier 2 Racial Toughness.
- These sub-paths define your race, so you can't do anything really silly, like making a Half-Orc Sorcerer.

This seems good so long as you leave customize an option. I need my custom Drow everything!

Clayness
02-15-2012, 10:54 PM
Poor guy almost got booted from a regular reavers fate... 381 HP on a barbarian (lvl 19) just because he followed path

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/Clay_More/ScreenShot00046.jpg

Antheal
02-15-2012, 11:02 PM
/signed.

IMO instead of 'pick class, then pick path, then pick race', it should go more like this:

1) Pick class
2) Pick path
3) Game asks you one or two additional questions then recommends a sub-path
4) Game chooses race for you.
5) Game handles enhancements as well as class levels. At any time you can reset enhancements via a trainer to 'get off the path' for AP (while remaining on it for everything else), and trainers also offer a 'suggest enhancements for me' option at all times if you've remained on a path.

So it would go something like this:

- Player chooses the Wizard class.
- Two paths offered, Pale Master and Archmage, with a flavor and gameplay description of both.
e.g. 'The Pale Master is a potent necromancer, master of the very forces of life and death. Eventually their studies into necromancy will let them transform themselves into undead.' and 'The Pale Master uses necromatic magic to heal themselves and snuff out their enemies.'
- The player chooses Pale Master and sees a list of sub-paths - a Human 'Dark Enchanter' build that uses their extra racial feat to help them 'offspec' into Enchantment spells, invests in Spell Penetration feats and fire and lightning enhancements, a Drow 'Shadowspinner' build that 'offspecs' into Conjuration for Web and Acid spells, and maybe a third and fourth 'sub-path'. Among the enhancements chosen would always be tier 2 Racial Toughness.
- These sub-paths define your race, so you can't do anything really silly, like making a Half-Orc Sorcerer.



You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

Seriously, why don't you work for Turbine already? Are you overqualified and that's why they wont accept you? It is, isn't it?

TekkenDevil
02-15-2012, 11:04 PM
I don't get why auto-paths are even available. If you're just going to level up without spending any of the attention on picking stats and skills and etc., then you're missing out on a major chunk of DDO. Character development.

Everyone should build their own characters, newbie or not, in order to learn from them. Lazy people should just quit altogether, because we all know that there's simply no place for them in DDO, whether they like it or not, they are always phased out, to the point of they either end up leaving, or they end up learning and playing as intended. The game just simply works against them. This is not WoW. It's not EVE either. The game's just not gonna play itself for you, and perhaps its a mistake on the developers' part to provide a fake auto-play option of such proportions.

Either that, or it is actually a smart thing, if you think about it.
It all depends on if you believe that the Auto-Paths help ease newbies into the game or not.

Brennie
02-15-2012, 11:56 PM
Really, these should already have been fixed.
(...)

Believe it or not, they have been. If you check out Tihocans thread, he points out some of the flaws in the OLD Paths that were downright ridiculous.

Paths now are bad, but they are not "Tip #317, Jumping in a lake of lava can be a good way to exfoliate" bad. The Frenzied Berserker path didn't even take Cleave until level 18... you couldn't take the PrE that the path is BASED on until level 18! And i believe there was one path that was actually 26 point build or something horrendously broken like that. THAT is how bad the paths USED to be.

The giant pile of "not built well" paths are leagues better than they were XD. That said, I'm still down for the fan-based "Submit a path" idea, to be voted on by the community, and to be used at the Devs discretion (Obviously, if an all-toughness fighter gets the most votes, they can veto, for example).

I'm also on board for enhancements being handled by paths... Also, i would like when characters level up, to see WHAT is chosen, and an explaination of WHY. "We are taking cleave, because it is a requirement for Frenzied Berserker I enhancement, and is good against multiple enemies".

Lastly, on choosing a path, maybe instead of "On" path, and "off" path, you'd simply have a recommended feat/skill/stat/etc chosen at each level up, but the player can decide to change out that feat/skill allocation etc with the warning that without planning, it could dramatically alter the final character, and possibly not make it work anymore (Especially if Prereqs are being monkied with). However, i would like "pathed" characters to see each stage of the level up screen in order to become more familiar with it.

Lewendriel
02-16-2012, 12:15 AM
- These sub-paths define your race, so you can't do anything really silly, like making a Half-Orc Sorcerer.
Just make restrictions on what class each race can play.

/Fixed

/thread

MartinusWyllt
02-16-2012, 05:14 AM
Lastly, on choosing a path, maybe instead of "On" path, and "off" path, you'd simply have a recommended feat/skill/stat/etc chosen at each level up, but the player can decide to change out that feat/skill allocation etc with the warning that without planning, it could dramatically alter the final character, and possibly not make it work anymore (Especially if Prereqs are being monkied with). However, i would like "pathed" characters to see each stage of the level up screen in order to become more familiar with it.

I think this is a great idea.

kilagan800
02-16-2012, 02:53 PM
Just make restrictions on what class each race can play.

/Fixed

/thread

I disagree with this. Sure, the paths need to be redone, but they shouldn't be restricted.

brightfang
02-16-2012, 02:58 PM
I disagree with this. Sure, the paths need to be redone, but they shouldn't be restricted.

I agree with you kilagan. One of the GREAT things in DDO is that you CAN be a Half Orc Sorceror if you want! Please do not put race requirements on classes.