PDA

View Full Version : Enough with consumables being broken by monsters



sephiroth1084
02-04-2012, 08:26 AM
I know that in PnP things like Fireball have a chance to break potions and such that players are carrying, but does anyone ever use that section of the rules? We've had this in DDO for a while, and it always rankled, but I've found it to be incredibly frustrating of late.

The effect adds absolutely nothing positive to the game, cannot really be defended against as far as I'm aware and can randomly be very expensive.

Major Mnemonic pots appear to have a high probably of being broken in this way, and having a single one destroyed during a run probably results in your losing more coin than you'd earn from all the loot you pulled during the quest. And I've had a few runs lately where I've had several Majors destroyed.

Recently had my remaining stack of Restoration scrolls destroyed (I think it was around 20 scrolls, first losing 13, then 7 during the same fight).

I've had stacks of necessary items for a particular quest/encounter get broken. Honestly, being prepared with something like Remove Curse pots, and then finding you can't take care of yourself because you got unlucky on a few Delayed Blast Fireballs really sucks.

Is there a point to this in the game? Can we have it removed?

SupTyr
02-04-2012, 08:55 AM
cannot really be defended against as far as I'm aware

Actually you can defend yourself against this by taking a few fighter levels and investing points into the item protection enhancement line.

It happens now rather often to me too, since I started tanking stuff with my wizard. Not so much on my fighter (maybe one random pot every 10 shrouds).

I think the point is arcanes (maybe devines too dunno) aren't supposed to tank through massive damage...

sephiroth1084
02-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Actually you can defend yourself against this by taking a few fighter levels and investing points into the item protection enhancement line.

It happens now rather often to me too, since I started tanking stuff with my wizard. Not so much on my fighter (maybe one random pot every 10 shrouds).

I think the point is arcanes (maybe devines too dunno) aren't supposed to tank through massive damage...
I get stuff broken on all of my characters.
The latest was my paladin losing a couple Majors and the remainder of his stack of Restoration scrolls while tanking Epic Chronoscope, but my wizard loses stuff, as does my rogue on occasion. My barbarian lost a bunch of Curse pots in a ToD recently, and my ranger lost all of his remaining Lesser Restoration potions in Abbot.

sirgog
02-04-2012, 09:21 AM
This is caused when you roll a natural 1 on a Reflex save against AoE damage spells. The game then presumably rolls dice to determine which item you are wearing or carrying to hurt, and inflicts durability damage on it. On stackable items, that destroys some of the stack instead. Store items appear immune.

I'd /sign this suggestion. Had 12 major mana pots broken in a Shroud once when the cap was 16 - if that happened to a first timer today, they might ragequit the game.

Lithic
02-04-2012, 09:25 AM
you can protect your valuable items by having more worthless stacks on you. Keep 100 arrows in your quiver even if you never use them, and any spell components you carry should be in stacks of 1000.

I can't remember the last time I lost a major potion, even though I always carry 300 on my FvS and 20 or so on my main.

jcTharin
02-04-2012, 09:35 AM
you can protect your valuable items by having more worthless stacks on you. Keep 100 arrows in your quiver even if you never use them, and any spell components you carry should be in stacks of 1000.

I can't remember the last time I lost a major potion, even though I always carry 300 on my FvS and 20 or so on my main.

What he said, I have a quiver full of bolts for a crossbow I never use and I see bolts breaking all the time.

cdbd3rd
02-04-2012, 09:39 AM
I know that in PnP things like Fireball have a chance to break potions and such that players are carrying, but does anyone ever use that section of the rules? ....

Yes. More than once had an acid-doused character walk away from a fight pretty much nekkid.
A Necklace of Missiles that failed a save vs a fireball... That one was a bad day for the players.
I had a player once who insisted on wearing a bunch of the jewellry they'd found in a treasure hoard. One thing in particular was an ornate golden crown. The look on his face when that crown melted down around his ears in a lightning bolt was priceless. (That was over 20 years ago, still remember it like it was yesterday) :)





Is there a point to this in the game? Can we have it removed?

We don't have the same option to protect our non-equipped gear like we could in PnP, so:

Equipped gear is out there, and open to damage. This is as it should be.

Backpack gear should ony be at risk when the backpack itself fails a 'save'. Obviously, this is too detailed for DDO, therefore I would have to support backpack items being immune to standard item damage.

Keep in mind, under this^ suggestion, if you're holding your stack of scrolls in a fight, they're gonna be one of the equipped items open to getting damaged.

learst
02-04-2012, 09:46 AM
Hm, for all the talk of keeping things closer to P&P and tabletop, I'm surprised to hear so much agreement and now a suggestion to remove flavour like encumbrance and destroyed items.

cdbd3rd
02-04-2012, 09:49 AM
Hm, for all the talk of keeping things closer to P&P and tabletop, I'm surprised to hear so much agreement and now a suggestion to remove flavour like encumbrance and destroyed items.

Well, if our backpack had a save...

On fail, all our pack gear rains out onto the ground and goes thru their own saves. :D Backpack slots are disabled til quest end or next rest shrine...

You guys are lucky some days that I'm not a bored Turbine dev. ;)

sirgog
02-04-2012, 10:28 AM
Hm, for all the talk of keeping things closer to P&P and tabletop, I'm surprised to hear so much agreement and now a suggestion to remove flavour like encumbrance and destroyed items.

Pen and paper has a lot of rules that just don't work well, IMO, when played without a real DM.

Playing with a real DM and a player loses an item that represents a lot of their power? No problems, the DM can modify the next encounters to make them a little easier, so that the item loss doesn't cascade to a campaign-ending TPK.

In DDO - no such option.

GeneralDiomedes
02-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Damage used to break entire stacks at once .. consider yourself lucky.

Xenostrata
02-04-2012, 11:33 AM
I would point out that the logic for at least one slot of our backpack is that it is a portable hole. IIRC, items carried in a portable hole were immune to ANY chance of damage from outside attacks.

So... /signed.

zwiebelring
02-04-2012, 11:40 AM
/sign

Harry destroyed 80 Scrolls of Heal and a whole stack of Ressurrection Scroll once... thsi feels pathetic.

pSINNa
02-04-2012, 11:48 AM
I've got to agree with the OP on this one.

It doesn't make the game more challenging.

It doesn't make the game more interesting.

It does make it more annoying at times, and expensive at others.

If it dosn't add to the game (remember, we're only talking un-equipped backpack items here, not equipped ones - leave them with damage taken as is), and it destracts from enjoyment of the game, then why not deep six the mechanic responsible.

/Signed, Coit

Missing_Minds
02-04-2012, 11:52 AM
I know that in PnP things like Fireball have a chance to break potions and such that players are carrying, but does anyone ever use that section of the rules?

Yes. It is amazing how fast I can make the DM re think when I break his toys.

Trick to remember is that turnabout IS fairplay.

Not that we can really call it fair in DDO.. Given how mobs don't carry anything and we can't break their gear, Sunder and Improved Sunder really should last longer, and any spell that should do things in PnP such as Sonic Burst for deafening should in turn auto interrupt any spell caster or at least drop fortification by 5%-10% due to the video game not implementing proper mechanics.