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Baelein
02-03-2012, 05:05 PM
I get a little annoyed when people tell me I should be dual weilding because I can get more spell enhancements then when I use a 2 hander. I like the idea of using a 2 handed weapon. So I would like a caster version of power attack. Instead of having it increase physical damage, like power attack, maybe make it increase spell DC or maybe reduce spell cost. If DC then using 1 handed weapons increases DC by 2 and 2 handed would increase DC by 6 and the negative could be reduced AC like always. If reduced spell cost then maybe 1 handed weapons increase the reduction by 10% and 2 handed weapon increases the reduction by 20%. I believe there should be some benifit to using 2 handed weapons other then if your lucky enough to find 1 in a purchased adventure pack, since right now with average weapons its better to use 2 weapons than 1 2 handed. This is more of a suggestion about balance with using average weapons then it is what named weapon is better.

Delssar
02-03-2012, 06:02 PM
No NO NO NO

Casters are OP'd as is, they dont need more buffs, ranged and melee do

Saravis
02-03-2012, 06:08 PM
Casters do have "power attack", its called metas: maximize, empower, heighten, etc.
/not signed

Freeman
02-03-2012, 06:17 PM
It's okay, having a tiny dagger doesn't make you less of a man :)

licho
02-03-2012, 06:19 PM
Well i suppose that casters are quite comfortable with metamagics. I suppose melees will be happy if they can also increase their dps by 100 or 50% with just one feat.

As for 2 hand stick, the tp://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Staff_of_Inner_Sight is what you are looking for.
Also at some level Souleater or dreamspitter could be fun to some degree.

Baelein
02-03-2012, 07:21 PM
I'm not interested in this staff http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Staff_of_Inner_Sight.

And what i'm talking about doesn't just affect wizards and sorcerers but also clerics, favored souls, pallys and others that use magic too. None of them would want to use that staff. Say your a cleric that would rather use a 2 handed weapon rather then going sword and board. This isn't about making 1 or 2 classes more OP its about adding another option to anyone that uses magic.

Kinerd
02-03-2012, 07:47 PM
The OP makes a good point. Wizards aren't supposed to run around with a dagger and a club, they're supposed to run around with a cumbersome, silly staff... but in DDO the first scenario makes infinitely more sense. Let's consider what we use two weapons for. My wizard's main set is:

+2 Enchant DC and Spell Pen 7 (scepter of mad trickery)
and
Superior Potency 6, Concentration 15, Arcane Lore, Lesser Maximize (cove dagger)

It is the breadth of effects I am interested in, and there's no way a staff can compete with that. It stands to reason that depth is the only way to compete, and while the OP's specific numbers may be troubling the general theory is the way to go. I wouldn't even make it a feat, as doing so disproportionately favors wizards to a dangerous degree. Maybe something like 1.5x effect: Superior Potency would be as powerful as Superior clickies, Greater Spell Focus would be as powerful as Epic Spell Focus, etc. Surely not overpowering, but an interesting effect nonetheless. If necessary, the named staves could be rebalanced.

Talias006
02-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Instead of adding another Meta to the plethora of Feats available to casters, I think a better suggestion is for them to make more robust Staff type weapons for those casters who wish to use such things.
Sure, it will most likely be named loot, but it would still be better than one more Meta to amplify casters abilities profoundly.

FrozenNova
02-03-2012, 08:11 PM
There is a caster version of power attack, and it doesn't even cost a feat.
It's called, "several of the strongest caster weapons are staves".
May or may not be wizard-specific.

Uska
02-03-2012, 08:13 PM
Umm no

Baelein
02-04-2012, 01:25 AM
Why are you guys are so stuck on staves. Not everyone wants to use a staff. I don't really care about my suggestion of increasing DC or reducing sp cost. I just threw those out there. The main purpose of this post is to try to balace someone using 2 weapons with someone using a 2 handed weapon. You can't just say use the best staff in the game, because that doesn't solve anything. The way it is right now is your options are to either grab any 2 (AND I MEAN ANY TWO) weapons or use a staff if you want 2h. That is the worst kind of balance there can be because anyone wanting to use a 2 handed weapon has no option. There reason why it has to be a feat and not a buff on a weapon is because it would have to be an option to anyone that uses sp. What if your a splash build with a fighter and an arcane? your not going to use a staff unless its for RP purposes. No for something like this it would have to be a feat. You could look at it another way.... right now almost every caster is getting all of the metamagics, so if this is any good then it will be more of a either get all the metamagics or get some and this.

Quarterling
02-04-2012, 01:33 AM
You want to increase DCs and reduce SP cost? Here you go. :)

http://ddowiki.com/page/Staff_of_the_Petitioner

dredre9987
02-04-2012, 01:33 AM
/not signed


your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever

AMDarkwolf
02-04-2012, 01:33 AM
I think, the op is saying that 2 weapons means u get 4 mods. So, there's little sense (Baring special weapons such as DS with its enchantment focus) to use a nice potency VIII staff. Although I don't like his suggestion (Sorry dude, not signed there) I do see where hes coming from.

In old DnD games I played, the idea behind a single staff was because the mage could use it to focus his energies for difficult spells. Having an item in each hand (Lore wise) defeats this purpose. As little as it takes to do it, it DOES take some concentration and/or though to 'hold' onto 2 weapons, to not slash ones face while you cast, and it prevents any 'wiggling' of the fingers.

Not sure how it would be brought back to that, and doubt it will be(game has progressed too far beyond fixing such small issues) I do understand him, and strongly think people should at least respect where hes coming from, even if not signing his petition.

bigolbear
02-04-2012, 02:03 AM
It's okay, having a tiny dagger doesn't make you less of a man :)

I duno... sounds to me like hes asking for a double ender! ;)

Staff that is of course, double ended staff. What you suggested wont work well, but ddo could realy use some decent mage staves - and the best way to handle that is to treat each end of a staff as a seperate weapon for the purpose of enchanting.

Also no objection to staves getting benefits from 2 weapon fighting.

Such755
02-04-2012, 06:33 AM
Casters do have "power attack", its called metas: maximize, empower, heighten, etc.
/not signed

Yep.

SoloPhalanx
02-04-2012, 06:51 AM
I'm not interested in this staff http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Staff_of_Inner_Sight.

And what i'm talking about doesn't just affect wizards and sorcerers but also clerics, favored souls, pallys and others that use magic too. None of them would want to use that staff. Say your a cleric that would rather use a 2 handed weapon rather then going sword and board. This isn't about making 1 or 2 classes more OP its about adding another option to anyone that uses magic.

You don't want it that's with you. I have it on 90% of the time, swapping it for a petitioner when buffing and swapping to GB + Ornamented when nuking.

If anything, Inner Sight is OP, seeing as it's the only source for +7 Int not on robes and it has +2 to ALL schools

MRMechMan
02-04-2012, 06:54 AM
/not signed

terrible logic.

Items should be judged on their own merit, casters shouldnt get random buffs based on how many hands they have in use.

Think before you post please.

WielderofGigantus
02-04-2012, 07:28 AM
Casters do have "power attack", its called metas: maximize, empower, heighten, etc.

This.

Blackbird
02-04-2012, 08:15 AM
So, if I understand you correctly, you want a feat that gives you some nice spell bonus (you listed either reduced SP or enhanced DCs) but only when using a 2-handed weapon. You don't want to use a staff and, since there are so many nice staves in the game, presumably your uber feat would have to exclude staves (a 2 handed weapon) because otherwise it would be overpowering for those staves in the game. So, this feat would only apply to great axes, great swords, great clubs, and mauls. And the reason why you want this -- you want to swing (?) a big stick. So, you want the devs to spend time and energy to develop and balance a feat......just for you.

Just because you want to do something (use a THW, splash fighter), doesn't mean that the game should be changed to make sure your choices are equal to other people's choices. This is just like in the real world. If I wanted to major in underwater basket weaving instead of law, should I petition Congress to pass a law to equalize pay between underwater basket weavers and lawyers just because I want to be an underwater basket weave and I don't think it's "fair" that others are making more money as a lawyer? I could, but I am unlikely to be successful, as in in this case. If you don't like the THW (excluding staff) options available to you either change what you're doing or live with it. There is no game reason to make this change to the game.

And...btw, what you want exists in the game. It's called crafting. With alchemical crafting you can make a great sword/axe/club/etc with (for example) - superior [element] 9, superior [non-element] lore, [guard], superior [element] lore, superior [element] 9, 3 charges of superior [non-element] lore, efficient [metamgic] 2, greater [spell school] focus, and one of the following: SF mast +1, greater SP 9, greater elemental spell power, arcane augment 9.

You can also make THW caster items in Cannith crafting (the exact choices I would have to look up).

Of course...those above could also be made in a one handed version so someone could have something in the other hand but that's their choice and your choice.

licho
02-04-2012, 02:05 PM
Hmm i got preatty lost what OP really wants.
But some neat ideas on the sides:

They (the Devs) actually could add some more Staves with 4x nice enchantments. Since big staff looks cool and help immersion.

The other idea, but this one will generate much hate, is to make all somatic component spell demand one free hand, by either wielding 1H or 2H weapon. (so u have one hand free) Actually the cry from it will be so great that i would happy see it. ;-)

Entelech
02-04-2012, 02:20 PM
The reason why casters run around with two scepters or two daggers is that, frankly, staffs suck.

You can get two prefixes and two suffixes on one-handed items (Potency, Lore, Power, and Stealth Strike, for example) and there are few if any magical staffs that come anywhere close to that level of benefits.

Even if we allow for named loot, most named staffs are situational gear compared to two equivalently difficult-to-obtain one handed caster foci.

And, once you outlevel Carnifex and Master's Touch, it's not like those weapons are ever going to be anything but decorative baubles attached to the ends of your wrists. Melee damage is a nonfactor.

If you think all wizards ought to obey the stereotype and carry around a staff, then make a staff worth carrying available. If you build it, they will come.

GeneralDiomedes
02-04-2012, 02:25 PM
Is it just me or have there been a lot of crazy ideas floated on the forums lately?

ArcaneMelee
02-04-2012, 03:56 PM
It's okay, having a tiny dagger doesn't make you less of a man :)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html


The OP makes a good point. Wizards aren't supposed to run around with a dagger and a club, they're supposed to run around with a cumbersome, silly staff...

I don't think that's a good point, actually. If one wants to play DDO according to the expectations that are set by other media, don't let a silly thing like game mechanics stop you.


Is it just me or have there been a lot of crazy ideas floated on the forums lately?

Yeah, I blame MadFloyd and his "Let's Talk" threads. They're going to some people's heads, methinks, giving people the idea that others care about their opinions :D

Psiandron
02-04-2012, 04:11 PM
I get a little annoyed when people tell me I should be dual weilding because I can get more spell enhancements then when I use a 2 hander. I like the idea of using a 2 handed weapon. So I would like a caster version of power attack. Instead of having it increase physical damage, like power attack, maybe make it increase spell DC or maybe reduce spell cost. If DC then using 1 handed weapons increases DC by 2 and 2 handed would increase DC by 6 and the negative could be reduced AC like always. If reduced spell cost then maybe 1 handed weapons increase the reduction by 10% and 2 handed weapon increases the reduction by 20%. I believe there should be some benifit to using 2 handed weapons other then if your lucky enough to find 1 in a purchased adventure pack, since right now with average weapons its better to use 2 weapons than 1 2 handed. This is more of a suggestion about balance with using average weapons then it is what named weapon is better.

You do realize that TWF and S&B melees also get twice the possible number of weapon enhancements as a THF?

Edit:

Is it just me or have there been a lot of crazy ideas floated on the forums lately?

People's brains are boiling due to a distinct lack of shade. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/Psiandron/throllinonthefloorlaughin.gif

Baelein
02-05-2012, 01:50 AM
wow... do people just skim through and post based on the title? And everyone seems to be stuck on arcanes. Why is it when I say something about CASTERS people assume I am talking about arcanes? Divines are casters too. Hell... even pallys can be considered a caster.


Yes, I am aware that twf gets more enhancements then thf.. my point is why not put thf on par with twf. Even if you craft twf will still be better then thf. So plz ppl... READ.

If your so against the feat idea then idk make it when you cannith craft a 2 handed weapon allow a person to add 2 prefixes and 1 sufix or 1 prefix and 2 sufixes. That way this would benifit ANY CLASS wanting to use a 2 handed weapon. I bolded that for you skimmers.

MRMechMan
02-05-2012, 01:55 AM
wow... do people just skim through and post based on the title? And everyone seems to be stuck on arcanes. Why is it when I say something about CASTERS people assume I am talking about arcanes? Divines are casters too. Hell... even pallys can be considered a caster.


Yes, I am aware that twf gets more enhancements then thf.. my point is why not put thf on par with twf. Even if you craft twf will still be better then thf. So plz ppl... READ.

If your so against the feat idea then idk make it when you cannith craft a 2 handed weapon allow a person to add 2 prefixes and 1 sufix or 1 prefix and 2 sufixes. That way this would benifit ANY CLASS wanting to use a 2 handed weapon. I bolded that for you skimmers.

Yes, that low level holyburst holy greataxe of bleeding sounds like a great idea

Sidewaysgts86
02-05-2012, 02:07 AM
If your so against the feat idea then idk make it when you cannith craft a 2 handed weapon allow a person to add 2 prefixes and 1 sufix or 1 prefix and 2 sufixes. That way this would benifit ANY CLASS wanting to use a 2 handed weapon.

Theres already numerous benefits to using a 2-handed weapon over 2 individual weapons. You get 1.5x your str mod into damage, glancing blows (up to 3 per attack chain for 50% damage with 10% or more chance of procing magical effects), and a far easier attribute cost (ie no 13-17 dex). So, not signed for giving weapons extra prefix/suffix stuff.

BUT your talking about mages and giving them SOME kind of benefit for using a 2-handed items versus constantly wielding 2 weapons.

My question is- Why?

http://www.imageyenation.com/images/blog-gallery/gandalf_the_white.jpg

Ive never been a fan of the cliche "casters use staffs only" thing. Even gandalf would drop his staff and use a sword when the situation called for it.

Your reasoning/desire seems to be merely from a image/flavor perspective, in which case I can sympathize with you. I strongly dislike your original proposed ideas (Reduced sp, increased DCs, etc), but dont see harm in the "idea" of giving "Reasons" to use a 2h-weapon (presumably a staff) in favor of 2 individual weapons.

I strongly support the idea of the Devs including more powerful-staves to address this "issue".

bloodnose13
02-05-2012, 06:13 AM
Casters do have "power attack", its called metas: maximize, empower, heighten, etc.
/not signed

this
no comment needed, all was said

Psiandron
02-05-2012, 01:40 PM
wow... do people just skim through and post based on the title? And everyone seems to be stuck on arcanes. Why is it when I say something about CASTERS people assume I am talking about arcanes? Divines are casters too. Hell... even pallys can be considered a caster.


Yes, I am aware that twf gets more enhancements then thf.. my point is why not put thf on par with twf. Even if you craft twf will still be better then thf. So plz ppl... READ.

If your so against the feat idea then idk make it when you cannith craft a 2 handed weapon allow a person to add 2 prefixes and 1 sufix or 1 prefix and 2 sufixes. That way this would benifit ANY CLASS wanting to use a 2 handed weapon. I bolded that for you skimmers.

Actually, I did read your OP and iread the subsequent posts thereafter. I think that several people noting that casters already have quite a few possible feats which increase their power so why add anything else. I fully agreed with that point and saw no need to belabor it.

I was merely stating that casters are not the only ones who are subject to fewer slots available and that THF melees face the same thing. Implicit in that is that while TWF does have a slight edge in DPS, the fact is that it isn't much. The two are essentially on a par. What you are suggesting would change that existing balance.

I suppose my response to your latest post is why? You want to play something with a bit of flavor. Good, I sincerely applaud you. There is an aweful lot of min-maxxing in this game and it's nice to see someone sacrifice something for a bit of a different take. But what you seem to be asking for is a reward for choosing a different path and that I do not agree with.

At the risk of sounding terse, you made your bed, now lie in it. If you don't like it change things around. I just don't see where the game should be changed just for your benefit. I don't even want to speculate on how such a change might be distorted to even greater advantage. Besides, do casters, taken as a group, really need more buffs. Oh yes, and who do you really expect to benefit from a new feat? Arcanes are much more likely to be able to find a feat slot that they can free up for something new and potentially powerful. A class like Paladin, for example, is incredibly feat-poor and would likely never be able to take such a feat without great sacrifice.

Quetzacoala
02-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Say your a cleric that would rather use a 2 handed weapon rather then going sword and board.

Well, if you want to use a two handed weapon on a healer then the solution to your problem is quite simple. Create a melee healer that specializes in your weapon of choice, then simply start swinging!