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View Full Version : new quest - CASTLES????



scouse65
01-31-2012, 01:35 PM
has anyone ever thought of a castle map? This is fantasy right? This is D&D right? I get kind of bored with stuff after lvl 16, I like the old fashioned D&D stuff, not into interplaner travel, but going through the sewers and some small towns and towers and crypts was cool. The minotaur village was cool, the undead pirate stronghold and red fens stronghold was close to a castle, but I really miss the D&D castle sieges! whats your opinion?

Delssar
01-31-2012, 01:37 PM
While Im sure many of us would love it, as far as I know it isnt ebberon. Maybe with the travel to the realms we might see some of it though. I think if they expanded into Ravenloft it would be amazing and we would have castles to boot.

somenewnoob
01-31-2012, 01:38 PM
Agreed. The closest I think we have is that fort in Storm the Beaches. I always liked the quest just becaue if felt the most like storming a castle!

scouse65
01-31-2012, 01:48 PM
okay, wishful thinking I guess, I'm more of a forgotten realms fan myself. :D

AZgreentea
01-31-2012, 01:50 PM
Aren't several of the maps we fight on "Castles"? For example, Bring me the Head of Ghola-Fan! takes place inside his fortress. Gladewatch Outpost is a fort used in two different quests. Then there is the Mistral Island fortress in Storm the Beaches.

Delssar
01-31-2012, 01:56 PM
Aren't several of the maps we fight on "Castles"? For example, Bring me the Head of Ghola-Fan! takes place inside his fortress. Gladewatch Outpost is a fort used in two different quests. Then there is the Mistral Island fortress in Storm the Beaches.

You have a point, but I think he means a different type of castle, one you see in holywood productions and what not.

Thrudh
01-31-2012, 01:58 PM
I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want... :)

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

AZgreentea
01-31-2012, 02:01 PM
I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).
I want to see the ladders bug out and prevent the orcs from climbing unless they take a step back and jump onto them. :D

Now that I think about it, the defend the castle fight in NWN2 was enjoyable. It would make an interesting raid, maybe requiring you to split the party like in the Spectral dragon raid.

brian14
01-31-2012, 02:02 PM
I think Dr. Rushmore's Mansion qualifies. Lordsmarch Plaza in "Eyes of Stone" is also a castle of sorts.

CanuckWisdom
01-31-2012, 02:02 PM
Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

Okay, but you can't post the screenie.

Chai
01-31-2012, 02:06 PM
Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

Just dont tell the elf, ok?

Delssar
01-31-2012, 02:10 PM
I'd personally like to see a seige chain.

First quest would require you to go to different cities of monsters and convince them to join your forces along side house D against a new threat.

The second quest would be setting up a foot hold in the surrouding area of the enemies castle.

The third quest would be the assault of the castle, defending the mage fire cannons and the catapults, and after a set amount of time rushing the front gates with a load of npc allies, setting up a forward base of opperations in the first wall.

And the forth which would be a raid would be assaulting the second wall and getting into the keep to find out that the big bad guy is someone you'd never expect......... It would be Jacoby Drexelhand, but as a death knight and as an avatar to the Devourer. (or make up your own ending)

MrkGrismer
02-01-2012, 10:44 AM
http://www.sonic.net/%7Enbs/egio/warlords/img_1271.jpg

Crann
02-01-2012, 11:57 AM
Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

I believe the proper terminology when refering to assisted dwarven acceleration is "Tossing."

Yvonnel-1
02-01-2012, 12:40 PM
http://www.sonic.net/%7enbs/egio/warlords/img_1271.jpg

+over 9000² !

quickgrif
02-01-2012, 01:01 PM
I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want... :)

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.
They need to do this quest with the LOTR sound track as well. That by itself would make it epic.

Uska
02-01-2012, 01:17 PM
I want Tegal manor but then I am an old fart

MaxwellEdison
02-01-2012, 01:24 PM
'And The Dead Shall Rise...' in the Delera's pack gave me more of a storming the castle than raiding a tomb feel.

somenewnoob
02-01-2012, 01:28 PM
That one minotaur one, framework kind of is a storm the castle feel to it. Hell you can ballista right in!

Tholar
02-01-2012, 01:47 PM
Have fun storming the castle!


http://www.vinegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/PrincessBride_HaveFun.jpeg

Teharahma
02-01-2012, 02:08 PM
I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want... :)

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

I see you saw the movies, books > movies.

Sleepsalot
02-01-2012, 02:09 PM
We need Durlag's tower from BG Tales of the Sword Coast that was a fun area. As for Castle I think the closest we have now to that design is Matador Village..

Sleeps :D :) :D


has anyone ever thought of a castle map? This is fantasy right? This is D&D right? I get kind of bored with stuff after lvl 16, I like the old fashioned D&D stuff, not into interplaner travel, but going through the sewers and some small towns and towers and crypts was cool. The minotaur village was cool, the undead pirate stronghold and red fens stronghold was close to a castle, but I really miss the D&D castle sieges! whats your opinion?

madmaxhunter
02-01-2012, 02:14 PM
We need Durlag's tower from BG Tales of the Sword Coast that was a fun area. As for Castle I think the closest we have now to that design is Matador Village..

Sleeps :D :) :D

lol, where's that, outside of Guadalajara?

quickgrif
02-01-2012, 02:45 PM
I see you saw the movies, books > movies.

Books are ok and you can feel the depth in them, however he is a bit dry in his story telling and the movies were well made.

Most times I agree book > movie but in this case its a wash for me.

Ninety
02-01-2012, 04:30 PM
a new invasion has a pretty nice castle that annoys me to no end.

Lagin
02-01-2012, 04:35 PM
has anyone ever thought of a castle map? This is fantasy right? This is D&D right? I get kind of bored with stuff after lvl 16, I like the old fashioned D&D stuff, not into interplaner travel, but going through the sewers and some small towns and towers and crypts was cool. The minotaur village was cool, the undead pirate stronghold and red fens stronghold was close to a castle, but I really miss the D&D castle sieges! whats your opinion?


There was talk by the devs several years ago about a siege campaign. It would be great wouldnt it?

MeliCat
02-01-2012, 05:01 PM
I want the mansion from the challenges as a PvP map (and I don't even like PvP)

Gizeh
02-01-2012, 05:04 PM
A classical medieval castle would be pretty pointless with beholders, dragons and powerful wizards who would basically just jump over the walls, but I would like to see a castle adapted to a high magic setting like Eberron.

Delssar
02-01-2012, 05:10 PM
A classical medieval castle would be pretty pointless with beholders, dragons and powerful wizards who would basically just jump over the walls, but I would like to see a castle adapted to a high magic setting like Eberron.

Thats just the setting, in alot of D&D worlds casters were 1/1000 adventurers and adventurers were 1/100000 person. Not only that but the worlds didnt have such a large number of monsters like beholders and dragons.

Falco_Easts
02-01-2012, 05:49 PM
I would love to see a dual part seige pack. It can be ran either as attacker or defender.

I would also love to see a quest in the new Underdark expansion done in infravision. Predator mode anyone?

Delssar
02-01-2012, 05:54 PM
I would love to see a dual part seige pack. It can be ran either as attacker or defender.

I would also love to see a quest in the new Underdark expansion done in infravision. Predator mode anyone?

I can already see my eyes bleeding from a quest like that.

I think they should of put in infravision for rainbow though for races that have it and in the IQ quest that you get put asleep I think elves should be able to remain awake since they are immune it it.

Auran82
02-01-2012, 06:03 PM
Have fun storming the castle!


http://www.vinegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/PrincessBride_HaveFun.jpeg

Going to need a miracle first.

Gizeh
02-01-2012, 06:34 PM
Thats just the setting, in alot of D&D worlds casters were 1/1000 adventurers and adventurers were 1/100000 person. Not only that but the worlds didnt have such a large number of monsters like beholders and dragons.

I would understand that in a setting like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk, but here in Eberron we have airships...

Zero.Ghost
02-01-2012, 09:02 PM
I would also love to see a quest in the new Underdark expansion done in infravision. Predator mode anyone?

Personally I would be in favor of having some quests where you have to carry a torch - I don't see why all these caves have well lit interiors when nobody has touched them for years. Who changes the light bulbs in there?

Thrudh
02-02-2012, 12:14 AM
I see you saw the movies, books > movies.

I read the books 10 times before the movies came out.

My nine-year old son is not allowed to watch the movies until he reads the books first.

:)

Sleepsalot
02-02-2012, 01:20 AM
We have that also Rainbow in the Dark..

Sleeps :D :) :D


Personally I would be in favor of having some quests where you have to carry a torch - I don't see why all these caves have well lit interiors when nobody has touched them for years. Who changes the light bulbs in there?

Gremmlynn
02-02-2012, 02:19 AM
I want Tegal manor but then I am an old fartWell you can't have it as I have a wizard (technically "magic user") that's been living in it for 30 some odd years.

MrkGrismer
02-02-2012, 07:37 AM
Personally I would be in favor of having some quests where you have to carry a torch - I don't see why all these caves have well lit interiors when nobody has touched them for years. Who changes the light bulbs in there?

They said they couldn't do something like that because of limitations with the engine. Only 7 lights can shine on an object (or what? I don't know, maybe it would collapse the space-time continuum). However, they have hinted that there are some engine changes coming, with the expansion, that will allow them to do some things they couldn't do before. Obviously some of that has to do with Druids, but it would be sweet if it allowed for full dynamic lighting, with lighting from flaming arrows, spells, etc. But I doubt it.

Casle sieges can be done in a setting like eberron, you just have to have some really strong air defenses. You also have to make sure you don't put an exhaust port to your main power source as a straight shot up to your moat....

HungarianRhapsody
02-02-2012, 08:43 AM
lol, where's that, outside of Guadalajara?

It's actually just north of Akron, Ojio.

TheDjinnFor
02-02-2012, 09:35 AM
I see you saw the movies, books > movies.

Minor tangent incoming:

Tolkien novels read like ancient religious texts. He had an amazing imagination and knack for creating rich and believable environments but was a terrible author in terms of pacing and flow.

LotR movie > LotR book, since it captured the essence of Tolkiens imagination but without his terrible writing. Otherwise, I'd agree with you, books > movies.

somenewnoob
02-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Minor tangent incoming:

Tolkien novels read like ancient religious texts. He had an amazing imagination and knack for creating rich and believable environments but was a terrible author in terms of pacing and flow.

LotR movie > LotR book, since it captured the essence of Tolkiens imagination but without his terrible writing. Otherwise, I'd agree with you, books > movies.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks his writing was lack luster. I figured I would get at least 8945 neg reps if I said so! :p

I read teh hobbit after I saw the movie (first time reading one of his books), and couldn't believe how poorly written it was. Could barely finish it. This was when i was a kid, and even then it was bad.

Thrudh
02-02-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks his writing was lack luster. I figured I would get at least 8945 neg reps if I said so! :p

I read teh hobbit after I saw the movie (first time reading one of his books), and couldn't believe how poorly written it was. Could barely finish it. This was when i was a kid, and even then it was bad.

I may have to remove you from my sig list. :mad:

Sam vs. Shelob - I love this in the book... They didn't do it justice in the movie. Sam was no weepy emo loser in the book!


Now splaying her legs she drove her huge bulk down on him again. Too soon. For Sam still stood upon his feet, and dropping his own sword, with both hands he held the elven-blade point upwards, fending off that ghastly roof; and so Shelob, with the driving force of her own cruel will, with strength greater than any warrior's hand, thrust herself upon a bitter spike. Deep, deep it pricked, as Sam was crushed slowly to the ground.
No such anguish had Shelob ever known, or dreamed of knowing, in all her long world of wickedness. Not the doughtiest soldier of old Gondor, nor the most savage Ore entrapped, had ever thus endured her, or set blade to her beloved flesh. A shudder went through her. Heaving up again, wrenching away from the pain, she bent her writhing limbs beneath her and sprang backwards in a convulsive leap.
Sam had fallen to his knees by Frodo's head, his senses reeling In the foul stench, his two hands still gripping the hilt of the sword. Through the mist before his eyes he was aware dimly of Frodo's face, and stubbornly he fought to master himself and to drag himself out of the swoon that was upon him. Slowly, he raised his head and saw her, only a few paces away, eyeing him, her beak drabbling a spittle of venom, and a green ooze trickling from below her wounded eye. There she crouched, her shuddering belly splayed upon the ground, the great bows of her legs quivering, as she gathered herself for another spring-this time to crush and sting to death: no little bite of poison to still the struggling of her meat; this time to slay and then to rend.
Even as Sam himself crouched, looking at her, seeing his death in her eyes, a thought came to him, as if some remote voice had spoken, and he fumbled in his breast with his left hand, and found what he sought: cold and hard and solid it seemed to his touch in a phantom world of horror, the Phial of Galadriel.
'Galadriel!' he said faintly, and then he heard voices far off but clear: the crying of the Elves as they walked under the stars in the beloved shadows of the Shire, and the music of the Elves as it came through his sleep in the Hall of Fire in the house of Elrond.

Gilthoniel A Elbereth!

And then his tongue was loosed and his voice cried in a language which he did not know:

A Elbereth Gilthoniel
0 menel palan-diriel,
le nallon si di'nguruthos! A tiro nin, F anuilos!

And with that he staggered to his feet and was Samwise the hobbit, Hamfast's son, again.
'Now come, you filth!' he cried. 'You've hurt my master, you brute, and you'll pay for it. We're going on; but we'll settle with you first. Come on, and taste it again!'
As if his indomitable spirit had set its potency in motion, the glass blazed suddenly like a white torch in his hand. It flamed like a star that leaping from the firmament sears the dark air with intolerable light. No such terror out of heaven had ever burned in Shelob's face before. The beams of it entered into her wounded head and scored it with unbearable pain, and the dreadful infection of light spread from eye to eye. She fell back beating the air with her forelegs, her sight blasted by inner lightnings, her mind in agony. Then turning her maimed head away, she rolled aside and began to crawl, claw by claw, towards the opening in the dark cliff behind.
Sam came on. He was reeling like a drunken man, but he came on. And Shelob cowed at last, shrunken in defeat, jerked and quivered as she tried to hasten from him. She reached the hole, and squeezing down, leaving a trail of green-yellow slime, she slipped in, even as Sam hewed a last stroke at her dragging legs.

"Come on, and taste it again!" - I cannot believe they didn't use that line in the movie... :mad::mad:

somenewnoob
02-02-2012, 10:02 AM
I may have to remove you from my sig list. :mad:

Sam vs. Shelob - I love this in the book... They didn't do it justice in the movie. Sam was no weepy emo loser in the book!



"Come on, and taste it again!" - I cannot believe they didn't use that line in the movie... :mad::mad:

lol HEY!!

Yeah Sam was BAD in the movies. I kept waiting for him to make out with Frodo. I think we know who the woman would be in that scenario.

Malky
02-02-2012, 10:24 AM
Going to need a miracle first.

Just throw Westley a rez and storm the castle :D

Zyerz
02-02-2012, 11:15 AM
I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want... :)

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

You've got LOTRO :) lol

I love DDO, and I do like the castles Idea, but I like the whole thing about traveling to other planes. It's pretty cool imo.

axel15810
02-03-2012, 04:16 PM
I would love to see more castle maps. But we do have several already - Kobold assault, Gladwatch outpost, Eyes of Stone, Minotaur village...that's all I can think of right now but there's probably a few I forgot

Delssar
02-03-2012, 04:52 PM
I would love to see more castle maps. But we do have several already - Kobold assault, Gladwatch outpost, Eyes of Stone, Minotaur village...that's all I can think of right now but there's probably a few I forgot

Kobold Assualt and Gladewatch are the same place which is a small fort, eyes of stone is inside lordsmarch plaza which is just a district in Stormreach, the minotaur village is just that, a village. Theres no REAL castles in this game, its disapointing.

quickgrif
02-03-2012, 05:05 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks his writing was lack luster. I figured I would get at least 8945 neg reps if I said so! :p

I read teh hobbit after I saw the movie (first time reading one of his books), and couldn't believe how poorly written it was. Could barely finish it. This was when i was a kid, and even then it was bad.
Your not the only one, many well known authors acknowledge the pacing problems in the LOTR books.
He was great at world building but needed some more practice at the storytelling part. :)

Cendaer
02-04-2012, 03:43 AM
This is Eberron.

Castles are sooooo last millenium. *yawns*

Please do NOT waste time on silly castles.

Give us Sharn instead.

After all, it is an all-important port city, through which many of us came while on our way to Xen'drik.

Sharn Excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105b)

Sample Maps from WotC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eb/20050211a)

What's a mere castle when compared to this?
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_maps/M19Sharnsideview_400.jpg

Another insteresting reference/view of Sharn. (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Sharn)

No castles, more towers.

Thank you.

Lehmu
02-05-2012, 07:50 PM
What is bastion of power about if not storming a castle? Come to think of it, most of the yugoloth favor quests (all of them?) could be considered storming a castle of a sort.

FlimsyFirewood
02-08-2012, 02:02 PM
Interesting opinions guys.

I am the designer who built Framework, Storming the Beaches, New Invasion and Bastion of Power. Although I want to give credit where it's due, another person (who isn't working at Turbine any more) helped with the construction of the fort in Storming the Beaches, and she did an excellent job. If you couldn't tell, I like castles.

I like the medieval sort of castles most of all. They aren't very common in Eberron. But, Eberron does have a lot of historical sites and Xen'drik is full of them, although the architectural style of the ancient giant empire and quori ruins are quite different.

Luckily for us there are many different races living on Xen'drik now, so I do try to sneak in as many castles and other fortifications as I can, when they are thematically appropriate to the story we're telling in the update.

As to attacking or defending against armies of 10000 orcs, we do have to deal with certain engine limitations. There are plenty of tricks we designers can use to make the castle encounters interesting and grand, but trust me when I say we won't throw 10000 bad guys at you all at once. That would be cruel and unusual and a bit laggy.

Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...

In closing, while working within the engine limitations, I'm looking forward to throwing more castles at you in the future. Cheers!

Spiffyspiffy
02-08-2012, 02:12 PM
As to attacking or defending against armies of 10000 orcs, we do have to deal with certain engine limitations. There are plenty of tricks we designers can use to make the castle encounters interesting and grand, but trust me when I say we won't throw 10000 bad guys at you all at once. That would be cruel and unusual and a bit laggy.

Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...

Couldn't you fake it, by having the graphical representation of a large mob of bad guys actually implemented by a single (or small number) of individual game entities?

NytCrawlr
02-08-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks his writing was lack luster. I figured I would get at least 8945 neg reps if I said so! :p

Add me to the list of agreeing and you can call on me to fight back some of the fan-personism onslaught.

Thrudh
02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
Interesting opinions guys.

I am the designer who built Framework, Storming the Beaches, New Invasion and Bastion of Power. Although I want to give credit where it's due, another person (who isn't working at Turbine any more) helped with the construction of the fort in Storming the Beaches, and she did an excellent job. If you couldn't tell, I like castles.

I like the medieval sort of castles most of all. They aren't very common in Eberron. But, Eberron does have a lot of historical sites and Xen'drik is full of them, although the architectural style of the ancient giant empire and quori ruins are quite different.

Luckily for us there are many different races living on Xen'drik now, so I do try to sneak in as many castles and other fortifications as I can, when they are thematically appropriate to the story we're telling in the update.

As to attacking or defending against armies of 10000 orcs, we do have to deal with certain engine limitations. There are plenty of tricks we designers can use to make the castle encounters interesting and grand, but trust me when I say we won't throw 10000 bad guys at you all at once. That would be cruel and unusual and a bit laggy.

Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...

In closing, while working within the engine limitations, I'm looking forward to throwing more castles at you in the future. Cheers!

Oh you don't you have to render 10,000 orcs at once! Just show them teeming below us (kind of like when you look down at the armies of Droam), and only render the ones climbing up the ladders, and a few dozen archers down below.

Over to the side off in the distance, you can see them using a battering ram against the main gate (again just background static motions)... When the captain of the guard tells you to get over there to help, you go through a door into a new instance where the guys using the ram ARE real... Maybe you get there just as they break through...

We assaulted a castle... I'd love to defend a castle.. It could be done...

Pretty please! :)

Thrudh
02-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Oh and ban somenewnoob's forum account for daring to say that Tolkien was a sucky writer.

somenewnoob
02-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Oh and ban somenewnoob's forum account for daring to say that Tolkien was a sucky writer.

Don't worry, a few more points and I'm there. :p

AZgreentea
02-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Oh and ban somenewnoob's forum account for daring to say that Tolkien was a sucky writer.
The Two Towers was awful. The whole book can be summarized by saying "Some other stuff happened, but anywayz..... " Even the movie adaptation was boring, and was the least popular of the three. Really, you could skip that book and not lose much of the story.

Thrudh
02-08-2012, 02:49 PM
The Two Towers was awful. The whole book can be summarized by saying "Some other stuff happened, but anywayz..... " Even the movie adaptation was boring, and was the least popular of the three. Really, you could skip that book and not lose much of the story.

Helm's Deep was boring??!!

I found the first part of the Fellowship of the Ring to be the most boring to reread.

(Although the first time I tried to read it... at age 9-10 I think... I got so scared of the Black Riders that I had to put it down, and didn't try to read it again for another year)

Lagin
02-08-2012, 03:02 PM
Interesting opinions guys.

I am the designer who built Framework, Storming the Beaches, New Invasion and Bastion of Power. Although I want to give credit where it's due, another person (who isn't working at Turbine any more) helped with the construction of the fort in Storming the Beaches, and she did an excellent job. If you couldn't tell, I like castles.

I like the medieval sort of castles most of all. They aren't very common in Eberron. But, Eberron does have a lot of historical sites and Xen'drik is full of them, although the architectural style of the ancient giant empire and quori ruins are quite different.

Luckily for us there are many different races living on Xen'drik now, so I do try to sneak in as many castles and other fortifications as I can, when they are thematically appropriate to the story we're telling in the update.

As to attacking or defending against armies of 10000 orcs, we do have to deal with certain engine limitations. There are plenty of tricks we designers can use to make the castle encounters interesting and grand, but trust me when I say we won't throw 10000 bad guys at you all at once. That would be cruel and unusual and a bit laggy.

Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...

In closing, while working within the engine limitations, I'm looking forward to throwing more castles at you in the future. Cheers!


Good news indeed. I'd love to see a land based siege like you did in the Sentinel series

Vazok1
02-08-2012, 03:29 PM
Interesting opinions guys.

I am the designer who built Framework, Storming the Beaches, New Invasion and Bastion of Power. Although I want to give credit where it's due, another person (who isn't working at Turbine any more) helped with the construction of the fort in Storming the Beaches, and she did an excellent job. If you couldn't tell, I like castles.

I like the medieval sort of castles most of all. They aren't very common in Eberron. But, Eberron does have a lot of historical sites and Xen'drik is full of them, although the architectural style of the ancient giant empire and quori ruins are quite different.

Luckily for us there are many different races living on Xen'drik now, so I do try to sneak in as many castles and other fortifications as I can, when they are thematically appropriate to the story we're telling in the update.

As to attacking or defending against armies of 10000 orcs, we do have to deal with certain engine limitations. There are plenty of tricks we designers can use to make the castle encounters interesting and grand, but trust me when I say we won't throw 10000 bad guys at you all at once. That would be cruel and unusual and a bit laggy.

Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...

In closing, while working within the engine limitations, I'm looking forward to throwing more castles at you in the future. Cheers!

I bet you can't wait for Khorvaire :). or even more Droam stuff, The Great Crag would be fun to make as well I bet :)

NytCrawlr
02-08-2012, 03:56 PM
Oh and ban somenewnoob's forum account for daring to say that Tolkien was a sucky writer.

Kind of in agreement, so add me to the list of bans. :p

Ultimately, I don't think he was a sucky writer overall, I did like The Hobbit, but ultimately I think the Lord of the Rings trilogy was overrated at best (i.e., not as good as the majority of the fan-base thinks it is).

So I will have to agree, movies > the books, which is usually a rarity.

P.S. I wouldn't mind seeing more castle-like assaults either. :D

Samir_Bennal
02-08-2012, 04:08 PM
Dungeon alert would have an aneurism. And then a server might melt...




Simple solution to this part, get rid of dungeon alert.

Chai
02-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Helm's Deep was boring??!!

I found the first part of the Fellowship of the Ring to be the most boring to reread.

(Although the first time I tried to read it... at age 9-10 I think... I got so scared of the Black Riders that I had to put it down, and didn't try to read it again for another year)

I wish they would have showed the actual horse charge in part 2 and finished off the battle. Instead they gave us a 15 second montage of them riding down the hill in slow motion, with Gandalf turning the brights on, and we just assume that the orcs all die or get driven off.

They saved the good calvary charge for part 3, only to get roflstomped by oliphants. :p

Asmodeus451
02-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Just throw Westley a rez and storm the castle :D

if the do a "storm the castle" type of quest, i would LOVE to see some nods to Princess Bride. Maybe the Quest Giver could be called Max the Miracle Maker? (for copyrights sake)

Maelwyn
02-08-2012, 06:11 PM
Just remember guys, this very game we play is based on Dungeons and Dragons, which was created by E. Gary Gygax, who was influenced by J.R.R. Tolkien. The very race you are probably playing after you read this, was a race based on one of Tolkien's races. So, have some respect for our gaming and fantasy heritage. Shoot, if it wasn't for Tolkien, there probably wouldn't even be a Dungeons and Dragons.

Maelwyn
02-08-2012, 06:16 PM
P.S. The castle seige idea (and more castles in general,) is a great idea. I for one don't think the few forts we have in the game count as castles. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, there are no true castles in this game. Forts, yes. Castles, no. (Not blaming you FlimsyFirewood). It's all Eberron's fault! LOL

Still, a couple of high fantasy castles couldn't hurt the game.

FlimsyFirewood
02-08-2012, 07:09 PM
Little known fact: the devil fort built in Subterrane was prototype for the construction of Bastion of Power. Bastion of Power was originally built a bit like a lego set out of spare pieces. When the artists saw it, they had to make awesome new tower assets just for that, so that it would look even more impressive on the landscape.

AZgreentea
02-08-2012, 09:23 PM
Helm's Deep was boring??!!

I found the first part of the Fellowship of the Ring to be the most boring to reread.

(Although the first time I tried to read it... at age 9-10 I think... I got so scared of the Black Riders that I had to put it down, and didn't try to read it again for another year)
That was a rare shining light in that whole book. I think The Hobbitt was the best of the four, and the three ring series I almost wish I hadn't bothered with. Almost.

Now that I have had a few days to think about it, the idea of a raid party either attacking or defending a keep is becoming more interesting. The defense of a keep would be even more interesting if there was a mechanic in place to change the raid if you lose the different defensive components of the keep (i.e the outer/inner walls are breached. Ballista go down allowing air attacks, npc wall defenders go down allowing an attack on the front gate, ect.)

Solmage
02-09-2012, 08:19 AM
I love castle sieges. In fact one of the few things I do like about the repetitiveness of tangleroot was the idea of breaking down the fortress defenses bit by bit. Of course, that quest should be changed to allow you, at a much greater difficulty, to just do away with larger chunks of the mission.

Objective: Breach the gate, kill 20 enemies, escape.
Optional Objective (Rescue Prisoners) [triggers in prisoners area]
Optional Objective (Kill Leaders, Steal Maps) [triggers in leader area]
[....]

And if you complete them all, then it allows you to 'skip' past the piecemeal missions that accomplish those goals. Of course because fortifications are in place, it should be much harder than doing the piecemeal assault.

Anyway, as a general idea, I really like it. Another thing I LOVE and would LOVE to see is aimable cannons/balistas (even if only roughly aimable, like to say certain pre-determined spots) and able to shoot them for an effective defense. Defending the ship in the IQ area would be FAR more awesome if the cannons cleaned house, and you could set one up to deal with the archers and one up to your solid fog/dancing ball for the melees.

somenewnoob
02-09-2012, 08:44 AM
Little known fact: the devil fort built in Subterrane was prototype for the construction of Bastion of Power. Bastion of Power was originally built a bit like a lego set out of spare pieces. When the artists saw it, they had to make awesome new tower assets just for that, so that it would look even more impressive on the landscape.

This is the kind of "behind the scenes" stuff I like to hear about!

And well done on the quests you've worked on. Storm the Beaches and Framework are 2 of my favorite quests when I'm running lower level alts up, just for that storm the castle, break into the fortress kind of feel to them.

Ganolyn
02-09-2012, 08:59 AM
I found the first part of the Fellowship of the Ring to be the most boring to reread.



The first part of FotR is mostly filler because the publisher decided to split LotR into three parts. It was too big to publish as one volume and be cost effective. They asked Tolkien to break it up and when he got to the logical place story-wise to stop the story for that book (the breaking of the fellowship), he found that FotR was pretty thin compared to the other two parts. So we got Tom Bombadil, Frodo wasting time for a month before leaving and the unnecessary side trip to Crickhollow.

As for the detractors who say Tolkien's story telling style is lacking and somewhat plodding: There is some truth to that, but you have to realize that he wasn't writing a story (in the traditional sense), he was recounting a history, and history doesn't flow like a well written book, it just happens.

Tolkien made up the history first and then felt like writing a part of it down as a story, so he was bound by the world events as they unfolded. Nowadays, fantasy authors come up with a good plot first, add interesting characters with twists/drama and have the history as backdrop to the action. Some don't even bother with it at all.

Even George R.R. Martin, who recently has created a world and history nearly as complex as Tolkien's, is making up the history as he goes. He just has to make sure that the newer stuff doesn't conflict with his already established history as it unfolds. He admits it stifles him at times and that he sometimes forgets little details that fans remind him of after a new volume is published.

sephiroth1084
02-09-2012, 09:04 AM
All of you bashing Tolkien...I'm sorry for you.

The three things to keep in mind about his writing:


Before anything else, Tolkien was a medievalist, and draws heavily upon the medieval style, although he has much more sophisticated characterization, descriptions and narrative flow.
What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
He was more concerned with showing off the world, the language and history of Middle Earth that he had been working on for half a century than he was with the plot, though obviously he was very much concerned with that as well.

I really can't understand how anyone could find the movies more enjoyable than the books in any way other than as a lack of attention span. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here, but they are some of my most cherished books, having read them 5 times now, and getting something fresh out of them each time through.



The movies were fun, and pretty, and did a pretty good job of staying true to the novels, but they still fall short.

grodon9999
02-09-2012, 09:07 AM
Little known fact: the devil fort built in Subterrane was prototype for the construction of Bastion of Power. Bastion of Power was originally built a bit like a lego set out of spare pieces. When the artists saw it, they had to make awesome new tower assets just for that, so that it would look even more impressive on the landscape.

I LOVE Bastion of power, one of the best quests in the game. but I gotta ask . . .

Why such low XP?

AZgreentea
02-09-2012, 09:22 AM
What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
And it feels like that when you read it. I really enjoyed the Hobbit, it was well paced and mixed the myth in with the plot. I found the LotR trilogy to feel like I was reading a mythology textbook that happened to have a few current events thrown in. I didnt think about it until I read your post, but LotR feels like a book written by an author not well invested in the plot.

I tried to read the Sword of Shanara series after that, and I ended up becoming frustrated with the whole genre for a long time. I switched to more traditional non European fiction due to my hate for english authors like Charles ****ens (though I love Shakespeare). I read the likes of Dostovesky and Mishima before giving up on reading for a long time. Then I started playing DDO and reading Eberron lore reignited my spark for reading. I might even try the Shanara series again after I finish the True Blood books.

My apologies to the OP, for participating in this derailment. :D

sephiroth1084
02-09-2012, 09:29 AM
It's how you approach the stuff, I guess, and what you enjoy.

I tend to enjoy slow-paced stories that build in a lot of non-plot material. In the case of the LotR, that was the history, language and setting. On one read-through, I decided to pay especially close attention to the descriptions of the surroundings, the lay of the land and such, and found myself really absorbed with enjoying nature in a different way for weeks after I finished reading.

Then again, I enjoy reading medieval literature, which really does drag.

Vormaerin
02-09-2012, 11:10 AM
It is critical to realize that Tolkein wasn't an author in the sense that we think of them today. He wasn't writing books for the purpose of selling them. Most of his stories were written either

1) In letters to his son or other relatives to entertain them
2) Because he wanted to try writing in the same style as the texts he studied (The homecoming of Beorthnoth or the Gawain stories)
3) Because he wanted to invent a mythology and history to go with the languages he'd invented.

Making money selling the books to the general public didn't make very far up his list.

Regarding LotR, it wasn't that he wasn't invested in the story. Its that his publisher wanted The Hobbit II and he didn't want to write that. So he sent them LotR and then they made him split it into three books...

But he's a terrible example of how to do things for anyone who wants to be a professional author. Way too much critical stuff happens off camera and there's a lot of exposition relative to action. IIRC, Bilbo singing a song in the Hall of Fire is longer than the face off with the Balrog in Moria.

It is Middle Earth that sells Tolkein's work, not the story of the Lord of the Rings. And very few authors have the ability to create anything remotely as compelling as Middle Earth. Its better to focus on the story and characters if you want to make a living from your books.

FlimsyFirewood
02-09-2012, 12:31 PM
I LOVE Bastion of power, one of the best quests in the game. but I gotta ask . . .

Why such low XP?

We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

stoopid_cowboy
02-09-2012, 12:48 PM
We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

I dunno about anyone else, but I find this great and exciting news!!!
I think Bastion is a fun and challenging quest to run, but never more than once per life to get my Yugo pots. Give it a proper amount of XP and I could see myself farming it a little to get through that lvl19 hump.

yuda :D

Sarisa
02-09-2012, 12:56 PM
Glad to see Bastion planned to get a boost in experience. The House C quests also desperately need it.

Aside from the low experience, the only other thing I dislike about Bastion are the dungeon alert issues. Mostly resulting from the first floor, where you can easily aggro something above you, yet you won't be able to reach them for around 10 minutes. All the while, they are contributing to DA which makes the ambushes much more annoying (instant orange, or worse, instant red).

If you fail a stealth-kill of even a single guard, you will have ambushes every single part.

Otherwise, I really enjoy Bastion, and it's one I don't mind doing.

DANTEIL
02-09-2012, 01:05 PM
(party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection)

I personally would love to see the dev formula for "sadism factor" :D

quickgrif
02-09-2012, 01:10 PM
All of you bashing Tolkien...I'm sorry for you.

The three things to keep in mind about his writing:


Before anything else, Tolkien was a medievalist, and draws heavily upon the medieval style, although he has much more sophisticated characterization, descriptions and narrative flow.
What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
He was more concerned with showing off the world, the language and history of Middle Earth that he had been working on for half a century than he was with the plot, though obviously he was very much concerned with that as well.

I really can't understand how anyone could find the movies more enjoyable than the books in any way other than as a lack of attention span. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here, but they are some of my most cherished books, having read them 5 times now, and getting something fresh out of them each time through.



The movies were fun, and pretty, and did a pretty good job of staying true to the novels, but they still fall short.

I love his imagination and what he did however I am not going to lie and say his story writing skills were not without flaws.

I am not bashing just stating how I feel when I read his books, as I am a avid book reader since I was 7 (I can walk by whole book sections at bookstores and literally have read almost every book or at least every author).
It is not uncommon knowledge his storytelling method had flaws but that is not bashing him. As far as enjoying the movies more I say it is a wash for me. The books have greater depth and feeling but the movies did not drag at points as the book sometimes did.

Riggs
02-09-2012, 01:13 PM
We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, ...

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

Yeah...

I am not one for arcane formulas and fancy maths - but it seems level 18-20 quests that give LESS xp than most level 7-17 quests that are more than 10 minutes long seems to be a pretty big indicator of something wrong.

I can probably pick out several level 8-10 quests alone that give MORE xp than the Lord of Blades...no one thought that was an issue when setting the xp?

A big shift happened back when Gianthold got nurfed hard for xp - it seems every single high level quest after that was not just lower xp - but so low people dont even bother running 'high level quests' on their TRs for xp. Other than IQ ones which are much faster, and makes the lower xp at least not so onerous to run them.

waterboytkd
02-09-2012, 01:14 PM
We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.

Awesome. Other quests to consider: all of the madness quests (both harbinger and reign packs), all of the Secrets of the Artificer quests AND raids, all of Three-Barrel Cove, Valak's Mausoleum, pretty much all of Threnal (there's one quest worth enough xp--West 2, I think, maybe it was east 2...), and I'd even say elite IQ/DD. Normal IQ/DD is about right (it's low xp, but fast quests), but elite is MUCH harder than normal (especially to melees--those mobs have WAY too high of ACs), and the XP payout just doesn't feel worth the effort, even on bravery streak.

There's more, too, but I lack the ambition to go and find them all and list them. :P

sephiroth1084
02-09-2012, 02:32 PM
We underestimated difficulty/time to completion, I think. It's a pretty arcane formula with a lot of moving parts (party composition, dungeon settings, "sadism factor", dungeon length, difficulty selection) and it's a surprisingly difficult task to make sure that all quests award appropriate amount of XP at level, below level, above level, etc. At various times the numbers have been adjusted and it's more or less an ongoing process, as new quests come out the landscape of best xp/min across various levels changes. This may lead to older quests getting bumps etc.

I have no ETAs or anything, but we are aware that some of our dungeons don't give as much XP as they should, and Bastion isn't the only one with that problem.
Is there any way we could get a minimum base XP/quest level across the board? Quests with more than that would probably not get increased, but ones under that would. Maybe as a percentage of the total XP required for that level for a 1st TR character?

For instance, a level 19 quest shouldn't have under 8,000 XP, say, as its starting value.
Raids shouldn't have under 10,000 XP, regardless of level.

I don't know what a perfect solution would be, but it is incredibly frustrating to run some quests for XP and get really poor rewards, especially if the quest is challenging.

stoopid_cowboy
02-09-2012, 02:49 PM
I have never understood how Genesis Point was worth double the XP of Bastion with half the challenge. Not to mention LOB is worth half the XP as Tempest Spine (IIRC, but I hope I am wrong).

Still exciting news!

yuda :D

FlimsyFirewood
02-09-2012, 02:59 PM
I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

waterboytkd
02-09-2012, 03:20 PM
I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

As a content designer, I feel you should design a fight. A fight between a bunch of angry kobolds and the systems developers. These kobolds, however, are under the effects of the Invulnerability power up and the Quad Damage power up. And the only way to get the power ups off the kobolds is to fix the skewed xp payouts for quests. A sort of Do or Die scenario... :P

Also, appreciate the communication. Maybe one of the systems guys (or gals?) could drop by for a quick soundbyte. :D

Sarisa
02-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Regarding Bastion in particular, is it possible to adjust the quest so that dungeon alert from casters above you don't impact the dungeon as badly as it does now?

stoopid_cowboy
02-09-2012, 03:41 PM
When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies.

But I am sure you know that guy... :D
Will you please do us all a HUGE favor and have him/her to just look at a few of our comments?

Thanks! :D

yuda

Cendaer
02-09-2012, 04:25 PM
I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

Awwww... and he's polite too!

See how he tried to pull the thread back from it's derail?

FlimsyFirewood, you just keep making awesome environments (did I mention more towers? do you think they'll ever let you make Sharn?) and fights.

I feel sorry for you devs sometimes, because no matter how much you make, we always seem to want MORE, because you make it so gooood.

Havok.cry
02-09-2012, 09:30 PM
I feel that I should point out that I'm a content designer, i.e. I make environments and fights. When you guys are talking about XP or treasure, it's all systems, this is not my direct responsibility and I don't get to call the shots on what goes where and for how many cookies. Insofar, I'm making no promises about when those things get fixed, nerfed or adjusted. I just know guys are working on those things.

Does this mean If I have a shiny idea for a quest or boss fight, I should PM it to you?

Xyfiel
02-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Dear great Flimsy,

If Warforged can select male or female at char creation, why do they have their own outhouse at the Carnival? And which of the three do Halflings use? Is there someone who has to retrieve fallen Halflings? I have meet a few who have a, uhm, certain outlook on life.:D

I_Bob
02-10-2012, 01:25 PM
I want to defend a castle, like the fight at Helm's Deep...

I want to be up on the wall and see 10,000 orcs charging the walls... I want to shoot arrows down into the mass of invaders, I want ladders to be raised by the invaders (and I want to be able to push them over).

I want to see catapults hurling stones. I want to see a battering ram breaking down the gates. I want to see Stone Giants smashing breaches in the walls.

I want to fall back to the inner castle walls.

That's what I want... :)

Edit: Oh, and I want to hurl a dwarf.

/signed

dunklezhan
02-13-2012, 08:31 AM
I personally would love to see the dev formula for "sadism factor" :D

IF Eladrin = Amused THEN Sadism = TRUE


I think that's it.

Asmodeus451
02-13-2012, 05:27 PM
if eladrin = amused then sadism = true


i think that's it.

qft

Algreg
02-14-2012, 08:21 AM
All of you bashing Tolkien...I'm sorry for you.

The three things to keep in mind about his writing:


Before anything else, Tolkien was a medievalist, and draws heavily upon the medieval style, although he has much more sophisticated characterization, descriptions and narrative flow.
What he really wanted to be writing was his mythology, which became the unfinished Silmarillion, but was pressed to write a sequel to his children's story, The Hobbit, by his publishers. and The Lord of the Rings ended up as a sort of bridge between the two.
He was more concerned with showing off the world, the language and history of Middle Earth that he had been working on for half a century than he was with the plot, though obviously he was very much concerned with that as well.

I really can't understand how anyone could find the movies more enjoyable than the books in any way other than as a lack of attention span. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here, but they are some of my most cherished books, having read them 5 times now, and getting something fresh out of them each time through.



The movies were fun, and pretty, and did a pretty good job of staying true to the novels, but they still fall short.

That is really a matter of personal taste - some people just like movies more. For me - and just for me - Tolkien is pretty much a children´s author. Maybe its a personal background thing, as a philologist, I had to chew through a lot of world literature and in comparision to really great writers, Tolkien is a hack. But he is worlds above most of contemporary fantasy fiction where you can read grande lines like "Mystra cast Bigby´s Crushing Hand" (no kidding) and way better than a lot of other "geek typed" writers like Lovecraft.

sephiroth1084
02-14-2012, 09:13 AM
That is really a matter of personal taste - some people just like movies more. For me - and just for me - Tolkien is pretty much a children´s author. Maybe its a personal background thing, as a philologist, I had to chew through a lot of world literature and in comparision to really great writers, Tolkien is a hack. But he is worlds above most of contemporary fantasy fiction where you can read grande lines like "Mystra cast Bigby´s Crushing Hand" (no kidding) and way better than a lot of other "geek typed" writers like Lovecraft.
A HACK? Like his style or not, how could you possibly refer to him as a hack?!

Silverleafeon
02-14-2012, 12:59 PM
Woot...Tolkien pretty much inspired D&D to be created...that alone grants him legend status...

Ganolyn
02-14-2012, 01:21 PM
A HACK? Like his style or not, how could you possibly refer to him as a hack?!


I wouldn't take his analysis too seriously. For someone who identifies himself as a philologist, his sentence structure is atrocious. ;):p

sephiroth1084
02-14-2012, 01:34 PM
I wouldn't take his analysis too seriously. For someone who identifies himself as a philologist, his sentence structure is atrocious. ;):p
Agreed. At the very least, a philologist should have a better understanding of word meaning and usage.

FlimsyFirewood
02-17-2012, 04:28 PM
Dear great Flimsy,

If Warforged can select male or female at char creation, why do they have their own outhouse at the Carnival? And which of the three do Halflings use? Is there someone who has to retrieve fallen Halflings? I have meet a few who have a, uhm, certain outlook on life.:D

Halflings are often ignored by the larger races, so when they fall in, they end up digging themselves out of the mess they find themselves in. But hey this lack of considerations wouldn't be the first time they get the short end of the stick...

Warforged have a unique anatomy, which likely means that their waste products aren't biodegradable and shouldn't be used as compost, hence special bathroom. Who would want to have an oil spill all over their garden, honestly?

This assumption is just my second-guessing, so I may be totally horrifyingly Wrong(tm), can you find a quote that disproves me?

Havok.cry
02-17-2012, 04:52 PM
It may be out of context, but I can quote YOU, to disprove anything, see:

This is incorrect.

Now your just wrong :D