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zex95966
01-30-2012, 06:10 AM
If you were going for completionist, and could choose any order yo wanted to TR from class to class, which order do you think gets the most benefit?

for example I think you should start or end with bard, since the TR feat for them doesn't give you much... I think ranger to Arti makes sense for bow damage, and Barb to rogue for HP and a small rage sounds like it would help a lot...

so from start to end, including all classes how would you go about it?

sephiroth1084
01-30-2012, 06:33 AM
Getting a little ahead of yourself, aren't you?

In any case, I'd probably do:


Paladin - everyone can use more healing amp, and the clicky is very good
Barbarian - everyone can use more HP
Fighter - extra attack bonus is useful for the melee builds coming up, as may be the tactics
Artificer - UMD will likely be useful for everyone; can stick after wizard also
Rogue - the purchasable feat is worthwhile
Monk - really benefits from all of the above
Ranger - has to go somewhere and benefits from all of the above
Wizard - leaving physical damage territory and Spell Pen will be useful for the rest
Cleric - Conjuration DCs useful for the upcoming casters
Favored Soul - more Spell Pen for the feat-starved sorcerer
Sorcerer - weakest benefits to everyone else, and gains greatest benefits from others
Bard - because it just doesn't offer anything of real value

Mind you, I wouldn't pure class most of these.

Syllph
01-30-2012, 06:55 AM
Bard - because personally i don't like bards and being able to have it first life means easy quick XP

Monk - +1 damage on every subsequent melee. Easy to play needs little gear.

Fighter - +1 damage. splash 2 monk for evasion and use the active monk past life till GS/ SOS. Swap out for toughness.

-----------We now have +1 hit/damage to all melees

Paladin - Healing amp never hurts. Like Fighter: monk splash + feat till GS / SOS. Swap later

Barbarian - Even only 5% we now have healing amp. This guy gives us better HP and a great active feat.

------From this point on never take toughness. Only take Barbarian Past life. +20 instantly.

Rogue - Rogue, imo, needs a lot of help. We now have many past lives to bolster him.

Ranger - Exploiter. (18/1/1 ranger/rogue/monk) We now have trapping gear and real experience with trapping knowledge. Like some of the others grab monk past life and go fists till level 12. Swap for GS khopeshes/ Rapiers. Taken after rogue for the +2 to reflex and before arti as they benefit arti's.

Artificer - +1 from monk, +2 from Ranger, + SA from Rogue. Good stuff. Also good transition from melee to caster.

-----------------We've now finished our melee lives.

Cleric - +1 Conjuration. Conjuration trumps enchantment. Plus it's a simple life. Go heal bot easy button or clunk (as you'll have gear/practice). Spend this life thinking which spells you'll need on FVS.

Favored Soul - Spell Pen + it's easy to transition from cleric to FVS not the other way. You're already primed with spells you'll need. Don't go melee. Necro and BB are simple amazing. Don't go melee.

Wizard - 18/2 wiz/rogue. with +1 conjuration and spell pen plus evasion and we're on easy mode. Go conjuration focus till level 12. Go with Acid spells to not nuke your own webs plus conjuration is the school of acid. Take Archmagi SLA web + heighten. So much goodness there. Once Circle of death becomes available swap conjuration: Necro. and Mental Toughness: Toughness. Switch to PM. Go PM to 20. You will never take 19-20 so you won't ever see PM III. No worries.

Sorcerer - After playing a sorc you will not be able to go wiz. It's just that much fun. Plus benefits from all the others I found Sorc had low DCs and I now have spell pen and better DCs. I found, like most, go fire till you're out of Shadow Crypt maybe even out of Necro IV and swap to elec or Ice as you enjoy. I swapped for elec too early this life and found I was less effective vs. Wiz King and Demon Queen, the stupid cats in GH. and the beholder in Necro IV. Don't even start about Abbot.

Finished. Gratz. Post a post on the forum and brag.

Edit: A note on my choices. I'm currently 2 lives away from completionist.

MrChipinator
01-31-2012, 05:33 PM
Hm, well Seph covered it fairly well, personally I'm doing a "Melee Completionist" and a "Caster Completionist".

One does lots of melee lives, the other does lots of blue bar lives.

Paladin and Barb should be first, as they are the greatest ones to give the best benefit. +1 damage from a monk is nice, but it isn't going to make/break you.

+30 HP (10 passive, 20 feat) instead of toughness at level 1-3 will make things much easier.

I'd do Paladin first because as it is, Paladins don't have the best...anything of melees. Getting that life done ASAP is, imo, a wonderful feeling.

He listed melee lives first, because most staple melee gear can be achieved by doing a few raids. Not to mention that most leveling melee gear is good on just about any toon. Casters are last because they can solo quite easily, and with all the gear (I hope you would have acquired) it shouldn't be a pain at all.

I found morale to be a big issue, do something fun once and again if you find the grind to be horrifying depressing. (you will). Cheers!

cyghost
02-01-2012, 03:38 AM
To get completionist you have to do all lives *only* once?

But doing each live three times stack, correct?




Can I has melee completionist feat please? I'm going to do fighter, barb, rogue, ranger and monk times 3. Is that nuts? Should that include paladin as above? Which of course would make it nuttier still...

I haven't given any thought to order but was planning on doing barb next. Once I have 300 epic tokens which is going to take longer then all my planned tr's together it seems.

Dunklerlindwurm
02-01-2012, 03:48 AM
If you were going for completionist, and could choose any order yo wanted to TR from class to class, which order do you think gets the most benefit?

for example I think you should start or end with bard, since the TR feat for them doesn't give you much... I think ranger to Arti makes sense for bow damage, and Barb to rogue for HP and a small rage sounds like it would help a lot...

so from start to end, including all classes how would you go about it?


Wait....werent you saying in another thread that the game is way too hard and you have never leveled a charakter to 20?

And now you want to do completionist :) ?

Makes no sense to me...

ReaperAlexEU
02-01-2012, 06:00 AM
To get completionist you have to do all lives *only* once?

But doing each live three times stack, correct?




Can I has melee completionist feat please? I'm going to do fighter, barb, rogue, ranger and monk times 3. Is that nuts? Should that include paladin as above? Which of course would make it nuttier still...

I haven't given any thought to order but was planning on doing barb next. Once I have 300 epic tokens which is going to take longer then all my planned tr's together it seems.

small tip to reduce the grind: dont get all 300 tokens now, spend a bit of time at each lvl20 to get more tokens. that will help break up the grind

cyghost
02-01-2012, 06:09 AM
Thank you, I'll consider that. As I currently only have 6, I think I know what you mean about the grind :p

It's just that I don't really enjoy grinding for them and I always do things I don't like first to get it over and done with. :D

Bacab
02-01-2012, 06:09 AM
just want to point out...

Picking your LEAST favorite class first is bad. Since you SHOULD be spending about 6 months at level 20 grinding Green Steel and other raid loot to make your future TRs easier and more fun.

cyghost
02-01-2012, 06:23 AM
6 months!!!

he he Luckily I leveled my monk which is my favorite class and end goal and I am having enormous fun.

Upon TR, can one open quests on elite?

Jsbeer
02-01-2012, 06:45 AM
6 months!!!

he he Luckily I leveled my monk which is my favorite class and end goal and I am having enormous fun.

Upon TR, can one open quests on elite?

TR2 can open on hard. TR3+ can open on elite.....

cyghost
02-01-2012, 06:49 AM
Thank you :)

Bacab
02-01-2012, 06:59 AM
6 months!!!

he he Luckily I leveled my monk which is my favorite class and end goal and I am having enormous fun.

Upon TR, can one open quests on elite?


I would still stay at 20 for a while to get raid loot and nice twink gear.

Also are you going to TR from Monk into Monk into Monk? Or going for completionist?

cyghost
02-01-2012, 07:12 AM
I'm going to do fighter, barb, rogue, ranger and monk times 3 each. And perhaps paladin. haven't decided on order yet, but this thread is helping. Want to be an uber 1337 monk in the end. Solo ToD and stuff.

sephiroth1084
02-01-2012, 07:15 AM
He listed melee lives first, because most staple melee gear can be achieved by doing a few raids. Not to mention that most leveling melee gear is good on just about any toon. Casters are last because they can solo quite easily, and with all the gear (I hope you would have acquired) it shouldn't be a pain at all.!
That was part of it.

The other part is that most of the melee benefits translate well to casters, but the reverse isn't true.

All of your casters will appreciate +10 HP. Any that are not undead will appreciate +5% healing amp (WF less so, but not entirely unconcerned). Divines, bards and artificers can benefit from bonuses to attack and damage. Some wizard and sorcerer builds can also make use of those abilities.

Conversely, only paladins and rangers are going to benefit from +30 SP, and only paladins from +1 Turn Undead. None of the melees are going to benefit from the Spell Pen buffs (maybe if you're UMDing Enervation scrolls, but that's a stretch), are unlikely to use the Wand DC buffs, and have other ways to address saves than to try to stick in the bard life early.

At the very least, look at the way many people play their casters for the first 3-8 levels: they pick up a 2-hander, maybe cast Master's Touch, and swing their way through most quests using their SP for buffs or light CC. None of your melee lives are going to be spent casting spells in any real way. And, as you said, being able to get your final lives done faster by leveraging the power of being a caster with lots of gear will likely help you through the process.

sephiroth1084
02-01-2012, 07:17 AM
I'm going to do fighter, barb, rogue, ranger and monk times 3 each. And perhaps paladin. haven't decided on order yet, but this thread is helping. Want to be an uber 1337 monk in the end. Solo ToD and stuff.
I'd value the paladins lives waaaay above the ranger lives, and probably over the rogue and monk lives as well. +15% healing amp is going to mean a lot more to you, especially if you want to be soloing stuff, than +6 damage (or more likely +3 damage when soloing).

Bacab
02-01-2012, 07:20 AM
I'm going to do fighter, barb, rogue, ranger and monk times 3 each. And perhaps paladin. haven't decided on order yet, but this thread is helping. Want to be an uber 1337 monk in the end. Solo ToD and stuff.

Good luck with that...I really do suggest having some raid loot first. Maybe you already have that stuff...if you don't...please consider collecting the gear before TRing.

HungarianRhapsody
02-01-2012, 07:26 AM
For my first life, I'd just pick which of my characters had the broadest selection of gear. In particular, a character that has a Torc just because it takes long enough to get a Torc that I wouldn't want to wait for that in a later life.

Just about everything else in the game can be gotten more quickly or can be replaced by something similar (Cannith crafted weapons instead of boss beaters found in a raid, LitII can be farmed by all of your characters together, etc). But a Torc takes as long as it takes and it makes such an enormous difference on any blue bar character that can heal itself efficiently.

cyghost
02-01-2012, 07:27 AM
I'd value the paladins lives waaaay above the ranger lives, and probably over the rogue and monk lives as well. +15% healing amp is going to mean a lot more to you, especially if you want to be soloing stuff, than +6 damage (or more likely +3 damage when soloing).
Thank you , that is very good to know. (I remember doing self healing om my light monk and healing myself for about 60 and the bloke I was with for 120 or so :P)

Good luck with that...I really do suggest having some raid loot first. Maybe you already have that stuff...if you don't...please consider collecting the gear before TRing.
Slowly getting some gear together. Still very gimp and will definitely stay on 20 quite a while longer. 20 completions on everything at least, which reaver and shroud is approaching but HoX is so way behind on :)

Bacab
02-01-2012, 07:47 AM
Thank you , that is very good to know. (I remember doing self healing om my light monk and healing myself for about 60 and the bloke I was with for 120 or so :P)

Slowly getting some gear together. Still very gimp and will definitely stay on 20 quite a while longer. 20 completions on everything at least, which reaver and shroud is approaching but HoX is so way behind on :)



Cool, sounds like you are doing it the "right way". I stayed at 20 on my first toon to cap for about a whole week...totally regretted TRing so early. Around level 11-13ish I realized I had messed up badly. All the people I was running with had Raid Loot and Greensteel...I was still poor and had Garbage gear lol.

Just for fun, you can look me up on MYDDO. Bacab of Ghallanda. Check out the HP and gear on my first life. Then check it out for my second life. Atleast I learned lol.

I plan on doing something similar to what you are doing on my WF FVS (Zweihander of Ghallanda). I plan on doing multiple TRs, but I refuse to start UNTIL I have everything I want for those journeys. Plus, it is super easy/fast to farm up lower level stuff when you are level 20.

For Example, lets say you are doing Monk or a Monk SPlash again and want Devotion (Holy Handwraps from Delera's Tomb), you can farm the whole Delera's chain on a level 20 in about 15-20 minutes. You can and should apply this to a lotta twink gear.

Goodluck man and remember, if it gets too grindy...you can roll up a new toon for a change of pace until you are ready to get started again.

I also kinda recommend having one additional level 20 before you hit the TR button. You will find out you are missing raids (as in you miss doing them because they are fun). That though depends on the amount of free time you have.

ReaperAlexEU
02-01-2012, 08:10 AM
Thank you, I'll consider that. As I currently only have 6, I think I know what you mean about the grind :p

It's just that I don't really enjoy grinding for them and I always do things I don't like first to get it over and done with. :D

as they say, a change is as good as a rest. so after a few dash's to lvl20 you might really fancy staying at lvl20 for a while and the epic token grind wont seem so bad. you might also decide there is one bit of raid gear you really want so having something to do when stuck on the 3 day timer will help :)

by all means grind a big chunk of tokens out now, break the back of it so to speak, but i think having some left to do might be a blessing in the future

and to echo some other advice, try and get an alt up to lvl20 before you TR! if nothing else it means you have 1 char capable of grinding out some serious plat if you discover you forgot to get one all important item and are stuck at a level that doesnt pay too well in loot. so its a back up plan as well as a way to take a break from the leveling

C-Dog
02-01-2012, 12:15 PM
(Slightly OT and hardly "new player" level, but I was reminded of this: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=357759 . Those who haven't read it might find it of interest, if only from a distance.)

zex95966
02-01-2012, 05:23 PM
Wait....werent you saying in another thread that the game is way too hard and you have never leveled a charakter to 20?

And now you want to do completionist :) ?

Makes no sense to me...

I like to plan ahead regardless, besides it's not just for me, I plan to show it to some family/friends that play or plan to play.

morticianjohn
02-01-2012, 05:35 PM
Getting a little ahead of yourself, aren't you?

In any case, I'd probably do:


Paladin - everyone can use more healing amp, and the clicky is very good
Barbarian - everyone can use more HP
Fighter - extra attack bonus is useful for the melee builds coming up, as may be the tactics
Artificer - UMD will likely be useful for everyone; can stick after wizard also
Rogue - the purchasable feat is worthwhile
Monk - really benefits from all of the above
Ranger - has to go somewhere and benefits from all of the above
Wizard - leaving physical damage territory and Spell Pen will be useful for the rest
Cleric - Conjuration DCs useful for the upcoming casters
Favored Soul - more Spell Pen for the feat-starved sorcerer
Sorcerer - weakest benefits to everyone else, and gains greatest benefits from others
Bard - because it just doesn't offer anything of real value

Mind you, I wouldn't pure class most of these.

Wow! Nailed it on the first response. However, maybe swap bard and pally if you're starting with 28 point builds. Pally just needs too many build points.


just want to point out...

Picking your LEAST favorite class first is bad. Since you SHOULD be spending about 6 months at level 20 grinding Green Steel and other raid loot to make your future TRs easier and more fun.

First I would say that you should have other characters which remain at 20 doing raids, gearing etc... A completionist character IMO should not remain at 20 for long. There is nothing to grind for that you don't get while leveling anyway. So I didn't get a carnifex while farming xp in delera's this life.... no big deal I'll get one next life. No need to grind one up if I'm not getting xp out of it. Same goes for Torc, SoS and just about anything else. I'm not going to grind out 20 completions on all these raids over the next 6 months while my goal of becoming a completionist stagnates.

Korthos gear will get you to lvl 7 easy. Along the way you can upgrade with ML5 abishi set and other random lootgen items. You can use crafting or the AH for just about anything you need these days no need to grind. Not to mention these levels fly by even on a third life getting up to lvl 16 is a breeze. I could go over all the key landmarks in terms of high quality gear for little grind (sora kell set, ML 9 Heavy fort item, Minos etc...) but I'm thinking that you just have different priorities. So just saying your advice should allow for the fact that others have different priorities too and for those people picking their least favorite class would be a good move.

MrCow
02-01-2012, 05:48 PM
None of the melees are going to benefit from the Spell Pen buffs (maybe if you're UMDing Enervation scrolls, but that's a stretch)

If you use offensive clickable items (Emerald Claw Talisman: Symbol of Fear, Greensteel: Waves of Exhaustion, Mask of Tragedy: Crushing Despair) they may find a good use with that extra spell penetration, when applicable. For instance, they can be handy for delivering a one-two punch against foes, such as Crushing Despair (lower will saves by 5 to 7) followed by Dismissing Strike on a Flesh Render.

Its a play-style thing, but I'm finding my Completionist's later lives benefiting from the Spell Penetration on melee-oriented lives more than I thought they would.

sephiroth1084
02-01-2012, 09:54 PM
If you use offensive clickable items (Emerald Claw Talisman: Symbol of Fear, Greensteel: Waves of Exhaustion, Mask of Tragedy: Crushing Despair) they may find a good use with that extra spell penetration, when applicable. For instance, they can be handy for delivering a one-two punch against foes, such as Crushing Despair (lower will saves by 5 to 7) followed by Dismissing Strike on a Flesh Render.

Its a play-style thing, but I'm finding my Completionist's later lives benefiting from the Spell Penetration on melee-oriented lives more than I thought they would.
DO you count your character level for Spell Pen? Does +3 Spell Pen really help against stuff with SR?

Meetch1972
02-01-2012, 10:26 PM
Remember the XP burden of the TR process. It's not a particularly bad idea to play a pally or a class that you know you're going to hate playing first, 'cos you don't need to grind for XP as much - indeed n/h/e is often plenty (and of course there are many you can just elite once and done if you care about favor, or completely skip doing harder than normal).

I can see the completionist process accelerating for me somewhat when the changes come in that let you keep tomes. That will largely eliminate my need to acquire a set of suitable tomes for the next life and reduce L20 farming to acquiring must-have named items, if any, for the next life, if I haven't already acquired them - and in the meantime encourages me to wait out the tome favourable update on my capped third life toon (Pally/Ranger exploiter/Hurtlocker Rogue btw).

Sephiroth's first reply has got me thinking about altering the plan to go barb instead of fighter next ... thanks for the brain food! Edit after this was replied to: Brain food meaning something I'll look at. Whether it happens depends on other things. :)

cyghost
02-01-2012, 11:35 PM
There is some great advice in this thread. Thank you every one and thanks to the OP for starting it :)

sephiroth1084
02-02-2012, 01:10 AM
Sephiroth's first reply has got me thinking about altering the plan to go barb instead of fighter next ... thanks for the brain food!
Ultimately, it's not that big a deal. I'd say you should probably do all the caster lives together, and all the melee lives together, with the melee lives first, but other than that the difference a single PL makes isn't all that large.

The barb PL feat at level 3 is quite a bit better than Toughness, but you don't really need the extra HP if you've got leveling gear.

Chette
02-02-2012, 01:56 AM
1. Fighter - +1 to his passive is leaps and bounds the best past life for any melee. The +1 to tactical DCs is nice too if you do a lot of soloing and need your own CC.
2. Barbarian - MOAR hitpoints before you get onto your squishier characters
3. Artificer - UMD is key to staying alive for a lot of TRs that solo and duo. IF you plan to UMD on your barbarian, I'd switch this and barb around.
4. Paladin - Healing amp for those scrolls you can now UMD :) Plus the active feat is really nice later in the game, giving +3 to hit and damage for 2 minute, 3 times per rest. Might even move this to third ahead of artificer if you have sufficient UMD.
5. Ranger - The stacking elemental resists are actually kind of handy at low levels
6. Monk - MOAR damage is MOAR damage
7. Rogue - It's a decent past life at cap, but while leveling up most people, especially those that are going completionist, are zerging and splitting up way too much to be concerned with sneak attack. Could even move this one to the end, as it's rather worthless for speed levelers.
8. Wizard - Passive spell pen and active +1 to DCs will be useful for other caster lives
9. Sorcerer - Evocation DCs very useful for upcoming divine casters
10. Favoured Soul - More spell pen, a few spell points
11. Cleric - Least useful passive feat of the caster classes
12. Bard - Past life is useless