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Havok.cry
01-27-2012, 04:52 PM
Will items like eardweller and bloodrage symbiont, that have non-standard ways of being acquired, be effected by these changes?

I assume the answer is no, but would like to be sure if at all possible.

Antheal
01-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Would this include things like the Muckbane, or Ring of Troll's Regeneration, etc.?

Vesuvium
01-27-2012, 08:51 PM
Only named items that already appeared on the normal End Reward lists are affected. Items that only appeared in chests within the dungeon, or from other non-standard ways, are not. So Muckbane, for instance, still requires you to get lucky with the chest.

There are a couple of exceptions, such as the Ioun Stones in the Dreaming Dark, but those are called out specifically in the release notes.

Havok.cry
01-27-2012, 09:34 PM
In the red fens how about various dampened items and the sp for hp clickie? Im not sure I see what this is effecting in there if those dont have a chance of appearing on the lists.

Sarisa
01-27-2012, 09:38 PM
In the red fens how about various dampened items and the sp for hp clickie? Im not sure I see what this is effecting in there if those dont have a chance of appearing on the lists.

Especially important as some of these are not available on Epic difficulty (Shatterbow, Twisted Talisman, Robe of Dissonance, and possibly the Cacophonic Verge).

sirgog
01-27-2012, 10:43 PM
Especially important as some of these are not available on Epic difficulty (Shatterbow, Twisted Talisman, Robe of Dissonance, and possibly the Cacophonic Verge).

Also important most of those are among the more desirable Epic items in that pack - other than the Epic Gloves of the Claw and maybe the bracers, the first three of those are on more players' wishlists than anything else in the pack.

That said I prefer the Tide Turns approach - base items dropping with ~10-12 times the drop rate of shards in the Epic chests.

Vormaerin
01-28-2012, 04:47 AM
In the red fens how about various dampened items and the sp for hp clickie? Im not sure I see what this is effecting in there if those dont have a chance of appearing on the lists.

Its not having a big effect there. Its just affecting the Red Fens to be consistent with all the other such quest chains. Its a big effect for many other chains, especially for first time players who actually need it. I don't get the impression this change was being made to benefit epic level players.

But definitely getting Carnifex, Visors of the Flesh Render Guards, Bracers of Tharaak/Bow of Sinew, etc is a huge benefit.


There is still all kinds of loot that people want that won't be guaranteed: Planar Girds, Twisted Talismans, and so on. I don't see how that's a problem. Those are mostly single quests. Its grinding huge chains that totally sucks.

Havok.cry
01-28-2012, 05:14 AM
Its not having a big effect there. Its just affecting the Red Fens to be consistent with all the other such quest chains. Its a big effect for many other chains, especially for first time players who actually need it. I don't get the impression this change was being made to benefit epic level players.

But definitely getting Carnifex, Visors of the Flesh Render Guards, Bracers of Tharaak/Bow of Sinew, etc is a huge benefit.


There is still all kinds of loot that people want that won't be guaranteed: Planar Girds, Twisted Talismans, and so on. I don't see how that's a problem. Those are mostly single quests. Its grinding huge chains that totally sucks.

I'm mostly just not understanding what changed about the red fens at all (lammas not loaded yet so can't just go look and see) All the quest end rewards already had named loot in ALL of them, so I'm wondering if the third rewards for each individual quest in the fens:

A: have a chance of either half of any of the set items from any of the fens quests

B: have a chance of any named item in the fens (this is what the release notes seem to say, but the above dev response has me wondering if A is the right one)

C: something I haven't thought of

I'm not even thinking of epics, someone else brought that up. I'm an altaholic, I spend little time in epics and am rather newbish to them. Almost no question I ask is related to epics in any way from my perspective, as epics are not the focus of the game for me. I'm one of those crazies that actually enjoy the non epic content.

Also I am personally not making any complaint here, just asking for clarification. I am pretty much the main forumite in my primary guild and I like to pass on as accurate info as I can to my guildies.

Tom_Hunters
01-28-2012, 11:39 AM
to OP:

What you guess is probably a no, but
items like Carniflex and Tharask Bracers do

Vesuvium
01-28-2012, 11:45 AM
Red Fens:

Most end reward lists with named items are at the end of a quest chain, rather than an individual quest.

In contrast, each individual Red Fens quest already has it's own End Reward list. These end reward lists typically have just a few named items, each with a 50% chance of showing up when you complete the quest.

So each individual Red Fens quest has it's own, individual 3rd completion end reward list, where the named items that normally show up on that quest show up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

Havok.cry
01-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Red Fens:

Most end reward lists with named items are at the end of a quest chain, rather than an individual quest.

In contrast, each individual Red Fens quest already has it's own End Reward list. These end reward lists typically have just a few named items, each with a 50% chance of showing up when you complete the quest.

So each individual Red Fens quest has it's own, individual 3rd completion end reward list, where the named items that normally show up on that quest show up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

Thank you for clarifying for me... have some greenies

Xyy
01-28-2012, 12:35 PM
Will the Korthos set items be added in entirety for the end of the Phiarlan Carnival chain? Given that these are end rewards for a different chain I am afraid these might get overlooked. My artificer has run the chain several times trying to get the Archivist's necklace and found some buggy end rewards. Every list from 7+ runs has had the exact same three Korthos items. I tried several with and without class based rewards enabled.

Bakarne
01-28-2012, 12:57 PM
I finally did get a Dampened Shatterbow out of Claw two days ago on Hard at level. I generally play epics, and I accumulated 8 Shatterbow Scrolls, 3 Shatterbow Seals, and 3 Shatterbow Shards before I got the base item.

It took me a while to realize that the Dampened Shatterbow base item could not drop at all on epic. I really do not know why the base items are unavailable in the hardest difficulty setting. Who wants to waste time at level 20 running a level 9-11 quest 10+ times?

Base items also do not drop in Epic Wiz King or Epic Chains of Flame (though they do in Epic Offering of Blood). No doubt there are others (Last Stand, Fathom the Depths, Claw of Vulkoor), and this really should be remedied.

Also why is there such an inconsistency in the Bound status of Fens items? Added a Token of Vulkoor to a Dampened Cacophonic Verge and it became BtC. Undampened Shatterbow and Robe of Dissonance are completely unbound. I haven't undampened a Greatclub, and I believe the Dampened Frozen Plate is BtA on acquire.

Targonis
01-28-2012, 12:58 PM
Red Fens:

Most end reward lists with named items are at the end of a quest chain, rather than an individual quest.

In contrast, each individual Red Fens quest already has it's own End Reward list. These end reward lists typically have just a few named items, each with a 50% chance of showing up when you complete the quest.

So each individual Red Fens quest has it's own, individual 3rd completion end reward list, where the named items that normally show up on that quest show up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

Would it be possible to add things like the rare named drops from chests also being added to these lists? Having them flagged as BtC or BtA if you get them in this way would make sense, but it would be nice to avoid having to grind quests to get certain items. The Rune Arm from Wizard-King is the perfect example of where this would be a welcome addition.

Phemt81
01-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Red Fens:

Most end reward lists with named items are at the end of a quest chain, rather than an individual quest.

In contrast, each individual Red Fens quest already has it's own End Reward list. These end reward lists typically have just a few named items, each with a 50% chance of showing up when you complete the quest.

So each individual Red Fens quest has it's own, individual 3rd completion end reward list, where the named items that normally show up on that quest show up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

While you are at this, could you add a small chance to have epic scroll/shard/seal as end reward in epics? That would be cool.

Sarisa
01-28-2012, 02:47 PM
Base items also do not drop in Epic Wiz King or Epic Chains of Flame (though they do in Epic Offering of Blood). No doubt there are others (Last Stand, Fathom the Depths, Claw of Vulkoor), and this really should be remedied.


You hit most of them. Also add Snitch (but just for the Garos's Malice, the Noxious Fang base item DOES drop on epic).

Wiz King, Fathom the Depths, and the Garos's Malice chest in Snitch are because the chest that drops the named items is REPLACED by the epic chest. Most quests have the Epic Chest in addition to the other end chests.

Chains of Flame, Last Stand, and Claw of Vulkoor have the drop rate for the base items set to 0 on epic difficulty, for some unknown reason.

If you do a quest on the highest difficulty, you should have the highest chance of getting the item from the chest.

MsEricka
01-28-2012, 04:06 PM
Two words

Twisted Talisman

Vormaerin
01-28-2012, 04:16 PM
I don't think that its necessary for every item in the game to be "hand it over after 30 minutes of game play."

I like this change because running an entire chain each time you want a try at an item can get pretty old, particularly since most of these chains are quite ancient.

I don't see why Twisted Talismans, Planar Girds, Rings of the Ancestors, and similar quest chest drops need to be auto granted so easily.

Targonis
01-28-2012, 04:51 PM
I don't think that its necessary for every item in the game to be "hand it over after 30 minutes of game play."

I like this change because running an entire chain each time you want a try at an item can get pretty old, particularly since most of these chains are quite ancient.

I don't see why Twisted Talismans, Planar Girds, Rings of the Ancestors, and similar quest chest drops need to be auto granted so easily.

No one says they should be EASY. For some items, showing up automatically after the 20th completion seems fair, while others can show up after three, and others might show up after 50. It all SHOULD depend on the item, but there should also be a point where you get it as a BtC or BtA after a certain number of completions IMO.

How about the Hand of the Tombs for Artificers, how many completions should be needed before you would be guaranteed to get it for that particular character? This is also why I feel that the difficulty the quests are run at SHOULD impact how many runs you need to complete before the item is going to show up on that end reward list. So, 20 runs on normal, 7 on elite seems fair to me.

Calonderial
01-29-2012, 11:58 PM
No one says they should be EASY. For some items, showing up automatically after the 20th completion seems fair, while others can show up after three, and others might show up after 50. It all SHOULD depend on the item, but there should also be a point where you get it as a BtC or BtA after a certain number of completions IMO.

How about the Hand of the Tombs for Artificers, how many completions should be needed before you would be guaranteed to get it for that particular character? This is also why I feel that the difficulty the quests are run at SHOULD impact how many runs you need to complete before the item is going to show up on that end reward list. So, 20 runs on normal, 7 on elite seems fair to me.

/signed, ran wizking on various difficulties over 50 times on my first arty before getting the runearm, got every imaginable loot possible except runearm until getting lucky

Forzah
01-30-2012, 03:32 AM
/signed, ran wizking on various difficulties over 50 times on my first arty before getting the runearm, got every imaginable loot possible except runearm until getting lucky

The advantage is that you can just buy it though :)

Sarisa
01-30-2012, 07:13 AM
The advantage is that you can just buy it though :)

Fine for most of the Gianthold flagging quest, Tor, Sands, and Orchard gear. Though not possible for the Tor Runearms, Dampened Frozen Plate, Dampened Cacophonic Verge, Twisted Talisman, which are all BtA on Acquire, and can be a major grind to get.

For two of those, along with two other base items in the Fens, you CANNOT get them on Epic difficulty. Instead of doing the quests on its highest difficulty level, you have to go back on a capped character and grind out easy low level content, repeatedly, to try to find the base item.

Fomori
01-30-2012, 10:28 AM
Instead of doing the quests on its highest difficulty level, you have to go back on a capped character and grind out easy low level content, repeatedly, to try to find the base item.
That is pretty standard practice for any BtA item that you would want for a twinked character. If you happen to get it while running it naturally through the levels then I would say its a bonus.

While I agree that there should be some chance to get in on all difficulty levels, I disagree in your premise that it should be more entitled to you on epic. I think there should be a lowered drop rate for base items on epic. Sure, you may feel like you need to go "slumming" in elite but you already get the opportunity for scroll and shard/seals to boot in epics. They should give rewards but not be the 1-stop shopping for getting everything you need from the chain.

Also, having you run those quests on elite means it opens up the grouping pool to try and get the base item... if it drops in chest that is. That promotes more potential social interaction.

Eladiun
01-30-2012, 01:23 PM
While we are talking quest chain end rewards have you also fixed the bug for Sentinels and Carnival that populated the end reward lists with Korthos gear?

waterboytkd
01-30-2012, 01:28 PM
Red Fens:

Most end reward lists with named items are at the end of a quest chain, rather than an individual quest.

In contrast, each individual Red Fens quest already has it's own End Reward list. These end reward lists typically have just a few named items, each with a 50% chance of showing up when you complete the quest.

So each individual Red Fens quest has it's own, individual 3rd completion end reward list, where the named items that normally show up on that quest show up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time.

Vesuvium, if there's no intention to add Twisted Talisman, Dampened Fullplate, Robe of Dissonance, et al to the 3rd completion rewards lists, could I make a suggestion?

Make them drop on epic difficulty. Maybe you're new, and if so, ask one of the older devs, like Genasi or MadFloyd, about the rage surrounding Devil's Assault and how the special-material weapons, like Wraps, only dropped on hard for a long time, and how much happier the player base became when the change was made to make them drop on epic as well. It really sucks to run this stuff on epic, get all of the scroll/seal/shard, then have to grind out low level content on your epic characters just to get the base item. Especially something like The Last Stand. It's more or less a timed mission, and very very boring on non-epic difficulties on your level 20.

Vesuvium
01-30-2012, 01:31 PM
While we are talking quest chain end rewards have you also fixed the bug for Sentinels and Carnival that populated the end reward lists with Korthos gear?

That is not a bug. It is intended. They are in addition to the Phiarlan or Sentinels loot, not in place of it.

Sarisa
01-30-2012, 01:34 PM
While I agree that there should be some chance to get in on all difficulty levels, I disagree in your premise that it should be more entitled to you on epic. I think there should be a lowered drop rate for base items on epic. Sure, you may feel like you need to go "slumming" in elite but you already get the opportunity for scroll and shard/seals to boot in epics. They should give rewards but not be the 1-stop shopping for getting everything you need from the chain.

Also, having you run those quests on elite means it opens up the grouping pool to try and get the base item... if it drops in chest that is. That promotes more potential social interaction.

Why should the highest difficulty have lower rates. All raids, except for Epic DQ, have equal or higher drop rates for everything on the highest difficulty level. It's a system that works well.

Note that the devs adjusted Devil's Assault to include normal/hard's Handwraps and other boss beaters chances so they drop on elite/epic as well.

I don't see why I should spend a large amount of time grinding level 9 (Fens) or 12 (Wiz King/Chains) content for base items when I (and my guild/groups) are perfectly capable of running the quests on epic. We already have social interaction, and would pass base items to those who need them. Requiring elite runs for epic base items is an unnecessary time sink, and does nothing but increase boredom and frustration.

waterboytkd
01-30-2012, 01:39 PM
That is pretty standard practice for any BtA item that you would want for a twinked character. If you happen to get it while running it naturally through the levels then I would say its a bonus.

While I agree that there should be some chance to get in on all difficulty levels, I disagree in your premise that it should be more entitled to you on epic. I think there should be a lowered drop rate for base items on epic. Sure, you may feel like you need to go "slumming" in elite but you already get the opportunity for scroll and shard/seals to boot in epics. They should give rewards but not be the 1-stop shopping for getting everything you need from the chain.

Also, having you run those quests on elite means it opens up the grouping pool to try and get the base item... if it drops in chest that is. That promotes more potential social interaction.

Remember when silver wraps only dropped in Hard DA? Remember how awesome that was? Oh, right, it was the opposite. NO ONE liked it, everyone complained about it. Running effortless content over and over and over is really really boring. Grinding is already a negative-play experience, but one that's a necessary evil for an MMO. Making that grind extremely boring and frustrating to boot is just downright poor design. Making them drop on epic with the same drop rates as the other difficulties is the right thing to do because you don't want to force your player base to do boring stuff. You want them to keep doing stuff (read: grinding) but you want them to have fun doing it.

As for opening up grouping...what we have now is that we're forced to run non-epic Red Fens for a few base items. No one puts up an LFM for a non-epic Last Stand with their level 20, outside those who want to run it for favor and want an elite opener. If you're grinding for a TT, you're doing it by yourself right now. Restricting an item needed for end-game gear to non-endgame quests, especially when said quests HAVE an end-game difficulty, is just a needless negative-play experience for the players, and does not promote social interaction at all.

madmaxhunter
01-30-2012, 01:51 PM
Nice post Saka. Guess you'll have to continue farming IQ. I'll run with you when I get to the appropriate level and we can roll for it if it drops.

Who am I kidding, we'd just race to the bag, click and "oops! That bag was the eardweller? Sorry!"

MrkGrismer
01-30-2012, 02:34 PM
There are a couple of exceptions, such as the Ioun Stones in the Dreaming Dark, but those are called out specifically in the release notes.

I did not see this exception called out in the current release notes...

somenewnoob
01-30-2012, 02:36 PM
I did not see this exception called out in the current release notes...

The Dreaming Dark

Completing the final quest in this series three times (and every third time thereafter) will offer players a single random Ioun Stone, crafting items, and random loot from its end reward list.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

MrkGrismer
01-30-2012, 02:39 PM
The Dreaming Dark

Completing the final quest in this series three times (and every third time thereafter) will offer players a single random Ioun Stone, crafting items, and random loot from its end reward list.


http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Yeah, I was looking in the other spot were the 3 times stuff is listed out. I see it now, my apologies...

somenewnoob
01-30-2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah, I was looking in the other spot were the 3 times stuff is listed out. I see it now, my apologies...

I know, I went to go copy it and was like "where the eff did it go, I know I read it here somewhere" :p

Havok.cry
01-30-2012, 03:16 PM
[QUOTE=madmaxhunter;4287161]Nice post Saka. Guess you'll have to continue farming IQ. I'll run with you when I get to the appropriate level and we can roll for it if it drops.

Who am I kidding, we'd just race to the bag, click and "oops! That bag was the eardweller?

Lol ill pick it up then let you invite you to come loot it, when you finally get there ill be like sorry you took too long.

sephiroth1084
01-30-2012, 09:03 PM
That is not a bug. It is intended. They are in addition to the Phiarlan or Sentinels loot, not in place of it.
This then begs the question:

Why are level 1 and 2 items dropping on quest chain end rewards lists for a level 5 and a level 7-8 pack? Are you intending players at level 8 start equipping Korthos gear?

Eladiun
01-30-2012, 09:16 PM
That is not a bug. It is intended. They are in addition to the Phiarlan or Sentinels loot, not in place of it.


You might want to recheck that. I've seen Carnival end list with only 2 or 3 Carnival items.

Havok.cry
01-31-2012, 01:51 PM
This then begs the question:

Why are level 1 and 2 items dropping on quest chain end rewards lists for a level 5 and a level 7-8 pack? Are you intending players at level 8 start equipping Korthos gear?

It is a nice way to have that stuff banked for a TR, especially with the gem of many facets. You can normally only get 1 set per life (2 with vet status) and this speeds that up.

Eladrin
01-31-2012, 01:59 PM
This then begs the question:

Why are level 1 and 2 items dropping on quest chain end rewards lists for a level 5 and a level 7-8 pack? Are you intending players at level 8 start equipping Korthos gear?
Vet Status characters may be interested in certain Korthos items.

Aelonwy
01-31-2012, 02:15 PM
This then begs the question:

Why are level 1 and 2 items dropping on quest chain end rewards lists for a level 5 and a level 7-8 pack? Are you intending players at level 8 start equipping Korthos gear?

I think they put the korthos items on those lists for the Gem of Many Facets, from Chronoscope. Chronoscope being level 6-7 on normal, Phiarlan Carnival being level 5-6 on normal, Sentinels being 7-8 on normal made sense at the time as an alternate way for at-level players to pick up items to wear with Gem of Many facets without touring the island again. Correct me if I'm wrong but the amulet is the only one from Korthos that you can't get a second time unless you TR right? Ppl should be prepared for their Gem by now. Do we really still need these Korthos items to drop on the higher lists? IDK.

Redicular
01-31-2012, 02:40 PM
yes we still need those dropping in higher level (and most importantly shorter) quests

misery's peak, while an interesting quest the first few times, becomes a MAJOR slog on your 4th or higher alt, particularly when, due to veteran's status, there is no threat of danger while running the quest.

Eladiun
01-31-2012, 02:55 PM
yes we still need those dropping in higher level (and most importantly shorter) quests

misery's peak, while an interesting quest the first few times, becomes a MAJOR slog on your 4th or higher alt, particularly when, due to veteran's status, there is no threat of danger while running the quest.


Was there ever a threat of danger in Misery's Peak?

red_cardinal
01-31-2012, 03:04 PM
Please, no korthos gear on level 7 vets. Come on!
Put some new gear there or buffed up low level f2p items, but no korthos gear.
Phiarlan carnival drops them... That's a bit lame.
Level 7 vet should have +1 flaming burst great axe, +2 con, etc. Not, +2 to hit junk.

danotmano1998
01-31-2012, 03:07 PM
If you're a level 7 vet, starting gear probably won't be much of an issue.
Or at least, it shouldn't be!

Havok.cry
01-31-2012, 03:16 PM
If you're a level 7 vet, starting gear probably won't be much of an issue.
Or at least, it shouldn't be!

Absolutely true, but when you TR, a level 1 character that can put on 4sets of korthos gear immediately will have an easier time of things, and when they hit lvl 5 they can put on gem of many facets and open up a bunch of slots while keeping the set bonuses. Then at 7 switch to fens gear. Thats what I do anyway.

Eladiun
01-31-2012, 03:18 PM
Absolutely true, but when you TR, a level 1 character that can put on 4sets of korthos gear immediately will have an easier time of things, and when they hit lvl 5 they can put on gem of many facets and open up a bunch of slots while keeping the set bonuses. Then at 7 switch to fens gear. Thats what I do anyway.

Bah... Craft Cannith shards with Master Craftsmanship and you will be better off than any of the Korthos junk (at level 5 you are putting on +4 stat items). As it is there is enough BTA +2 gear with no min level to out do that korthos junk. There are two items I have ever used; the googles and the sp clicky.

Gareth_Valinson
01-31-2012, 03:23 PM
Was there ever a threat of danger in Misery's Peak?
Oh yes; the ever looming threat of falling asleep whilst running it.

Havok.cry
01-31-2012, 03:34 PM
Bah... Craft Cannith shards with Master Craftsmanship and you will be better off than any of the Korthos junk (at level 5 you are putting on +4 stat items). As it is there is enough BTA +2 gear with no min level to out do that korthos junk. There are two items I have ever used; the googles and the sp clicky.

Actually now days I use no min level +5-6 stat items from madness chain in the twelve. My previous post was referring to the reason the korthos stuff was put in those quests... which happened before cannith crafting. Honestly if it's not taking a slot for named loot from the chain, I don't see what the issue is.

Eladiun
01-31-2012, 03:41 PM
Honestly if it's not taking a slot for named loot from the chain, I don't see what the issue is.

...because I don't buy that based on personal experience. If i get bored I'll run it and grab a screenie (since I have no proof I am correct) but I have seen Carnival with almost no Carnival gear in the list when I was farming for base items. It once took us like 10 runs to get a Rodrick's wand base item. Every run it was mostly Korthos junk...

Vesuvium
01-31-2012, 04:53 PM
When you complete the Carnival quest chain, the end reward list has 10 named items, including the Runearm. 8 of them have a 50% chance of showing up, two of them have a 25% chance. In addition, there are 4 named Korthos items, each with a 100% chance of showing up.

This means that yes, it is possible for the Korthos items to outnumber the Carnival items, but that's just a coincidence. If we removed the Korthos items from the end reward list, it would not increase the odds of the Carnival items appearing in any way.

bbqzor
01-31-2012, 05:12 PM
When you complete the Carnival quest chain, the end reward list has 10 named items, including the Runearm. 8 of them have a 50% chance of showing up, two of them have a 25% chance. In addition, there are 4 named Korthos items, each with a 100% chance of showing up.

This means that yes, it is possible for the Korthos items to outnumber the Carnival items, but that's just a coincidence. If we removed the Korthos items from the end reward list, it would not increase the odds of the Carnival items appearing in any way.

Does this refer to how it will be after Update 13, or how it is in game right now?

Currently, it seems to be a very frequent occurrence where Carnvial (or the House D line) items simply don't have room to spawn from Korthos junk. If its a coincidence, my personal experience must be an extreme anomaly because it happens something like half the time.

And likewise, from the new release notes on chain rewards, it sounded as if all 10 items (in your above example) would have a 100% chance of appearing. Perhaps I interpreted it wrong, but that was my impression.

Currently, people dislike the Korthos inclusion because it appears to make getting the actual chain rewards harder. My impression of the patch notes was that the inclusion of Korthos rewards would simply mean a longer reward list as the actual chain rewards would all be present every time. Your example fits neither of these, and as such I am worried what is actually going to go in with Update 13. Can you clarify this please? If we complete a quest chain after the update, what should we expect to see, exactly?

Dawnsfire
01-31-2012, 05:21 PM
Vet Status characters may be interested in certain Korthos items.

Did something change? Last time I created a Vet character not only did he start with a Korthos set but could also go back and run the quests for another. Is this no longer an option? Not that I care that they were added but I do not understand what the issue was to begin with.

MrkGrismer
01-31-2012, 05:22 PM
Does this refer to how it will be after Update 13, or how it is in game right now?

Currently, it seems to be a very frequent occurrence where Carnvial (or the House D line) items simply don't have room to spawn from Korthos junk. If its a coincidence, my personal experience must be an extreme anomaly because it happens something like half the time.

And likewise, from the new release notes on chain rewards, it sounded as if all 10 items (in your above example) would have a 100% chance of appearing. Perhaps I interpreted it wrong, but that was my impression.

Currently, people dislike the Korthos inclusion because it appears to make getting the actual chain rewards harder. My impression of the patch notes was that the inclusion of Korthos rewards would simply mean a longer reward list as the actual chain rewards would all be present every time. Your example fits neither of these, and as such I am worried what is actually going to go in with Update 13. Can you clarify this please? If we complete a quest chain after the update, what should we expect to see, exactly?

If 8/10 have a 50% chance and the other 2 a 25% chance then half the time not seeing any would be well within the realm of possibilities.

Even after Update 13 nothing will change except on 3rd completions, in which case all 10 items should show up. If I am understanding the new 3rd completion system. Which would mean on a third completion there should be 14 or more items in the list (or more because possibly renown and/or ingredients I believe)

Havok.cry
01-31-2012, 05:31 PM
If 8/10 have a 50% chance and the other 2 a 25% chance then half the time not seeing any would be well within the realm of possibilities.

Even after Update 13 nothing will change except on 3rd completions, in which case all 10 items should show up. If I am understanding the new 3rd completion system. Which would mean on a third completion there should be 14 or more items in the list (or more because possibly renown and/or ingredients I believe)

this

k1ngp1n
01-31-2012, 06:46 PM
Not that I care that they were added but I do not understand what the issue was to begin with.

They needed to pad the loot list since that pack has so few items. :P

noinfo
01-31-2012, 07:26 PM
Only named items that already appeared on the normal End Reward lists are affected. Items that only appeared in chests within the dungeon, or from other non-standard ways, are not. So Muckbane, for instance, still requires you to get lucky with the chest.

There are a couple of exceptions, such as the Ioun Stones in the Dreaming Dark, but those are called out specifically in the release notes.

While the current proposal is a very very good start there is still the issue of very rare rares such as the Kronzek in Big Top. Including those items on a higher multiple would be nice (or better yet fixing spawn rates in the first place)

bbqzor
01-31-2012, 11:15 PM
Even after Update 13 nothing will change except on 3rd completions, in which case all 10 items should show up. If I am understanding the new 3rd completion system. Which would mean on a third completion there should be 14 or more items in the list (or more because possibly renown and/or ingredients I believe)
This is what I took it to mean also, but after the previous dev post I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.

Its a long chain (time wise) to run 3 times for an item, one of the longer ones there is. Especially so at level, where you can do two or even three runs of other chains in the same time. Having only a 50/50 shot (or worse) at anything sounds as bad as the reward list felt, and even with the (presumed) change on 3rd completions it's pretty brutal for time in. Glad to see any change which addresses this, and in the Carnival's case I wouldn't be opposed to further addressment.

Vesuvium
02-01-2012, 07:35 AM
Does this refer to how it will be after Update 13, or how it is in game right now?

I was referring to the drop rates on live, right now. That will remain unchanged once U13 goes live - except for on 3rd completions, where all of the items will have a 100% drop rate.

Malky
02-01-2012, 07:47 AM
Was there ever a threat of danger in Misery's Peak?

Falling from the top of the multi-staged room all the way to bottom without featherfall, maybe :rolleyes:

GentlemanAndAScholar
02-01-2012, 08:47 AM
Only named items that already appeared on the normal End Reward lists are affected. Items that only appeared in chests within the dungeon, or from other non-standard ways, are not. So Muckbane, for instance, still requires you to get lucky with the chest.

There are a couple of exceptions, such as the Ioun Stones in the Dreaming Dark, but those are called out specifically in the release notes.

Could you please at least suggest to make Eardweller behave like scrolls? Assigned randomly (automatically) and tradable? Same nonsense tension that happened when scrolls dropped on the floor. Please fix this to either loot in the chest or make them behave like scrolls. Thx. Eardweller loot mechanic is really, really bad news.

Sarisa
02-01-2012, 08:53 AM
Was there ever a threat of danger in Misery's Peak?

First life, first character, without potions besides what was picked up with breakables, still learning how to move their character effectively, no ship buffs. Some rooms in Misery can be a bit tough, especially when you face the big swarms of casters.

For experienced people, no.

MrkGrismer
02-01-2012, 09:41 AM
Falling from the top of the multi-staged room all the way to bottom without featherfall, maybe :rolleyes:

I've seen many of my friends die this way. Which just opened my eyes to how little they play videogames ;) :D

Sarisa
02-01-2012, 09:50 AM
I've seen many of my friends die this way. Which just opened my eyes to how little they play videogames ;) :D

I grew up with the NES and early SNES, and my sister and I got quite good with platforming. However, 2D Platforming is WAY different than 3D Platforming, so there was a pretty stiff learning curve to overcome when reaching the Arcane Skeleton optional, falls from Misery Peak, and the Pit.

somenewnoob
02-01-2012, 09:58 AM
First life, first character, without potions besides what was picked up with breakables, still learning how to move their character effectively, no ship buffs. Some rooms in Misery can be a bit tough, especially when you face the big swarms of casters.

For experienced people, no.

I died for the first time in MP......fell! If you are a first life first toon level 2, it's a decent challenge. Obviously if you are a twinked, tr, experienced player, less so.

How soon we forget what life was like when we said, "Sweet! 30 copper just fell out of that barrel! I can almost buy some full plate!"

bbqzor
02-01-2012, 10:26 AM
I was referring to the drop rates on live, right now. That will remain unchanged once U13 goes live - except for on 3rd completions, where all of the items will have a 100% drop rate.
Thank you very much for the clarification, it is greatly appreciated. I suppose we will always want higher drop rates lol, but the 3rd completion idea is perhaps a good compromise. Still, waiting on Brawnpits 3 times, ugh =p. Thanks for the change, cheers )

Aelonwy
02-01-2012, 10:40 AM
When you complete the Carnival quest chain, the end reward list has 10 named items, including the Runearm. 8 of them have a 50% chance of showing up, two of them have a 25% chance. In addition, there are 4 named Korthos items, each with a 100% chance of showing up.

This means that yes, it is possible for the Korthos items to outnumber the Carnival items, but that's just a coincidence. If we removed the Korthos items from the end reward list, it would not increase the odds of the Carnival items appearing in any way.

If I'm asking for too much tell me so, but would it be possible...ever... to get the items from the rares on the end reward list like on a 5th, or 10th, or heck even 20th completion? I've ran these quests on all my alts multiple, multiple, multiple times... and even when I see the rares, not a guaranteed event for certain (I know they're rares), they almost never have their item in their chest.

Vesuvium
02-01-2012, 10:56 AM
It's certainly possible, but it's not in the cards for U13 or (most likely) the expansion. It would likely have to be part of a larger scale loot pass on old content, and there are lots of design considerations that would have to be weighed.

LightBear
02-01-2012, 12:04 PM
It's certainly possible, but it's not in the cards for U13 or (most likely) the expansion. It would likely have to be part of a larger scale loot pass on old content, and there are lots of design considerations that would have to be weighed.

When you do get to it, then plz add the epic versions of those items as well. Ha, an epic muckbane to go after the cube should do it.

Epic version of ring of trollish regeneration should have a hidden effect on it that cast a spell on you (1% chance) like a kobold cookie would.

Aeolwind
02-01-2012, 12:43 PM
If I'm asking for too much tell me so, but would it be possible...ever... to get the items from the rares on the end reward list like on a 5th, or 10th, or heck even 20th completion? I've ran these quests on all my alts multiple, multiple, multiple times... and even when I see the rares, not a guaranteed event for certain (I know they're rares), they almost never have their item in their chest.

I'd be happy with even 30 lol.

Avidus
02-01-2012, 12:46 PM
If I'm asking for too much tell me so, but would it be possible...ever... to get the items from the rares on the end reward list like on a 5th, or 10th, or heck even 20th completion? I've ran these quests on all my alts multiple, multiple, multiple times... and even when I see the rares, not a guaranteed event for certain (I know they're rares), they almost never have their item in their chest.

This would be fantastic.

To actually get the item while your in the level range to use it would be even better. How many times have we all taken our 20's into level 5~14 content looking for a base item to make epic or to grab something just to have it changed or eclipsed by gear in a new pack.

Any mechanic to make it so that you'll eventually get the item from a rare is a good mechanic. Right now the beating the odds so that the rare will even show up is only the tip of the iceberg once you ransack the chest several times to still not have your item.

I guess it ultimately comes down to what the Devs think is an acceptable number of runs or amount of time for a particular item.

GentlemanAndAScholar
02-01-2012, 01:11 PM
Epic version of ring of trollish regeneration should have a hidden effect on it that cast a spell on you (1% chance) like a kobold cookie would.

I can envision it now: Epic Ring of Trollish generation. Regenerate 5 HPs every 10 minutes.

To be honest, with damage output as is, the basic ring should give 1d4 regen every 2 rounds. Not 1 HP every minute.

Then they could give the Pouch of Turkey 1d8 every round and 1d10 for the epic version.

But HP regen is so far behind everything else that I think it deserves a review for a bump.