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GoldyGopher
01-26-2012, 09:08 PM
While I understand why this change was put in place I can already hear the screaming from many players who have recently TR character's about this Tome change. I wonder how many characters in the last week lost +4 Tomes.

Would it be possible to make this retroactive change? Even if it could only go back to when U12 (earlier would be better) was launched it would save a lot of angst.

And I am going to suggest the unthinkable if it cannot be made retroactive, for players who have used a +4 tome a token or something to buy a replacement +4 tome from the store (Yes I know how um painful that might sound) but I know many players who have been sitting on chracters with +4 tomes eaten for year(s) waiting to TR, with the announcement of MOTU at least three characters have been TR in the past week losing 5 +4 tomes and than the announcement today. Ouch...

knightgf
01-26-2012, 09:21 PM
I see this as a inevitable sort of situation, sadly. The only thing players can do is suck it up and move on. It's like buying the latest, greatest desktop computer for a high price, then suddenly a week later theres a even better one. Sad, but it happens.

sephiroth1084
01-26-2012, 10:59 PM
Making it retroactive would be great, but I doubt they could do that, as the programming to record whether a player has a read a tome was likely not in place.

Also, there had been some mention of this being in the works by a dev a month or two ago (maybe longer).

Painful or not, this is all upside. Everyone knows that the game changes, and we can't be getting changes applied to everyone retroactively every time something gets pushed through.

Auran82
01-26-2012, 11:05 PM
Myddo shows stats and stuff for past lives including tomes used, so this data has to be stored somewhere. Besides, it's not like they literally delete your character and recreate it when you TR right? Surely the database record would be marked as 'TRd' and archived somehow, or something similar. I'm pretty sure the warning about not being able to retrieve is just there to give them an out when people screw up the class or stats or something when they TR and try to complain.

sephiroth1084
01-26-2012, 11:22 PM
MyDDO shows stats...does it show tomes used?

Nysrock
01-26-2012, 11:25 PM
/not signed

While I myself have lost tomes while TRing I KNEW I was going to lose them BEFORE I TR'd. I wholeheartedly welcome this change as it will benefit me for future TR's but I never expected this change when I TR'd before.

So just like all the other changes that have affected my builds and/or items I'll make the new changes work for me and try to forget about the past except for reminiscing over the Good Ol Days in the Wayward Lobster over an ale. :cool:

xveganrox
01-26-2012, 11:25 PM
Alternatively, we could be seeing +5/+6 tomes dropping from new content, with the level cap going up and such. And anyone who had multiple +4s is probably going to be in a position to be farming those new tomes.

Just wishful thinking probably, I'm sure :)

Nospheratus
01-27-2012, 03:48 AM
I wonder how many characters in the last week lost +4 Tomes.

I would say not many, since +4s are so rare...

sirio.gala
01-27-2012, 08:39 AM
The real question is: if i eat a +4 tome now, and reincarnate after update, will i keep it?

GoldyGopher
01-27-2012, 08:41 AM
I would say not many, since +4s are so rare...

There was a time when the drop rate of +4 tomes was higher, or at least appeared to be higher.

In the first few months of DDO:EU through U4 (Sep 2009 - Apr 2010) +4 Tome drops were almost three times as high as the current drop rate. (We are a raiding guild we track that kind of stuff). The problem is many early characters ate the tomes right away and had been shelved. Until last week announcement of the expansion. At least three players I know decided to TR characters which had eaten +4 Tomes in the past week. Those of us in older guilds probably are going to see more of this than players who joined after the conversion to F2P.


Alternatively, we could be seeing +5/+6 tomes dropping from new content, with the level cap going up and such. And anyone who had multiple +4s is probably going to be in a position to be farming those new tomes.

Just wishful thinking probably, I'm sure :)

We can only hope.


/not signed

While I myself have lost tomes while TRing I KNEW I was going to lose them BEFORE I TR'd. I wholeheartedly welcome this change as it will benefit me for future TR's but I never expected this change when I TR'd before.

So just like all the other changes that have affected my builds and/or items I'll make the new changes work for me and try to forget about the past except for reminiscing over the Good Ol Days in the Wayward Lobster over an ale. :cool:

The problem here is that Turbine last week announced MotU, told everyone it would be cool to TR and get ready, put True Druid Hearts on Sale, and then one week later announce the change to TR's and tomes.


I see this as a inevitable sort of situation, sadly. The only thing players can do is suck it up and move on. It's like buying the latest, greatest desktop computer for a high price, then suddenly a week later theres a even better one. Sad, but it happens.

Than I would suggest you start shopping at a different store.
As a former Retail Manager at a Large Electronic Store nothing was better than telling customers we would match that price cut. Of course I now had a customer for life and they on average would spend $500 more in my store over the next year than your typical customer. It's a win win situation for both customers and retailers, it should be for Turbine as well.

Thrudh
01-27-2012, 08:41 AM
/not signed

While I myself have lost tomes while TRing I KNEW I was going to lose them BEFORE I TR'd. I wholeheartedly welcome this change as it will benefit me for future TR's but I never expected this change when I TR'd before.

So just like all the other changes that have affected my builds and/or items I'll make the new changes work for me and try to forget about the past except for reminiscing over the Good Ol Days in the Wayward Lobster over an ale. :cool:

This.

Thrudh
01-27-2012, 08:44 AM
+4 tomes will be more plentiful when the cap goes to 25th level.

Who knows? we may even get +5 tomes in 25th level quests.

EazyWeazy
01-27-2012, 08:45 AM
The real question is: if i eat a +4 tome now, and reincarnate after update, will i keep it?

I wouldn't bet on it. Much safer to take a wait and see approach.

edit: To clarify, it seems logical that this would be their intent; however, I wouldn't assume it will work so well out of the gate. :)

Thrudh
01-27-2012, 08:45 AM
put True Druid Hearts on Sale, and then one week later announce the change to TR's and tomes.

Okay, yeah... that was a little sneaky.

But the people who TRed did it knowing they would lose their +4 tomes and made the choice anyway.

Thrudh
01-27-2012, 08:46 AM
I wouldn't bet on it. Much safer to take a wait and see approach.

Yeah, let someone else try it first...

Chai
01-27-2012, 08:48 AM
There will always be an inevitable line drawn. If they make it retroactive to U12 then the people who TRed 3 days before that got hosed. If they draw the retroactive line at U11, then people who TRed a couple days before that got hosed. Players knew what the rules were and chose to TR. Most held onto their tomes, until their final life then ate them only to find out new classes were being released that would invalidate their completionist until that new class was filled in. THis was all known beforehand however.

Cyr
01-27-2012, 08:50 AM
Yeah, let someone else try it first...

I officially ate all my saved tomes last night after reading the post confirming it works at least to level 3 and the +1 benefit.

I will not reincarnate any toons until I have confirmation that it works correctly for all tomes, but if Turbine screws this up they will need to make it right. Once you announce something like that you can not just throw up your hands and walk away from it if you make a mess.

Missing_Minds
01-27-2012, 08:57 AM
Okay, yeah... that was a little sneaky.

But the people who TRed did it knowing they would lose their +4 tomes and made the choice anyway.

Is anyone else hearing Rick Astley singing in the background of this thread? (I'm not so cruel as to link such.)

FooWonk
01-27-2012, 10:28 AM
/not signed


I've lost so many tomes, but knew it when I was TR'ing a character.

Ryiah
01-27-2012, 10:56 AM
As a former Retail Manager at a Large Electronic Store nothing was better than telling customers we would match that price cut. Of course I now had a customer for life and they on average would spend $500 more in my store over the next year than your typical customer. It's a win win situation for both customers and retailers, it should be for Turbine as well.

There's a big difference between offering a customer a discount to shop in your store versus a product becoming obsolete one week later. In the case of the product becoming obsolete, that's just how the industry works for computers. Would you allow a customer to return their computer every single week of the year just to guarantee that they have the return policy active for when a better product finally comes out? If so, give me the address of that store. Most of my games can safely run off a USB flash drive without the need to be installed.

People knew they were going to lose their +4 tomes. Chances are they either didn't care enough to worry about it or they had spares sitting around. Personally if I were losing anything not easily obtainable (aka tomes higher than the +3s from the store) I would try to verify that Turbine wasn't up to something. That they encouraged TRing is a good indication that they might have been adding something with a future Update.

LordRavnos
01-27-2012, 11:22 AM
Yeah not signed. As stated people knew they were going to lose them and if Turbine had not made this change they would be gone still. And I have to point out, the devs did state several times the were looking into TRing and tomes and to stay tuned. I am sure none of us expected a response now of course, but it was still said. Technically I have no right to say anything as have never even used a +3 tome, never mind a 4, but if I had it would still be tough noogies for me

ArcaneMelee
01-27-2012, 11:28 AM
2 weeks ago, I TR'ed a toon that had consumed a +3 Dex tome, and planned the build around using a level up point to avoid paying Turbine for a store +3 Dex tome.

While I would be ecstatic if the tome magically showed up after U13 hits, it's not necessary. I'm already planning to buy a +3 tome as soon as the store lists them again.

GoldyGopher
01-27-2012, 12:05 PM
There's a big difference between offering a customer a discount to shop in your store versus a product becoming obsolete one week later. In the case of the product becoming obsolete, that's just how the industry works for computers. Would you allow a customer to return their computer every single week of the year just to guarantee that they have the return policy active for when a better product finally comes out? If so, give me the address of that store. Most of my games can safely run off a USB flash drive without the need to be installed.

I really depends on the Customer and the reason for the return. As a Former Manager you'd be surprised why we did somethings. As a word of warning coming and yelling at the staff is not going to accomplish you anything.
I should also warn that you need to remember all warranties and return priviledges are based upon the date of original purchase. I have swapped out computers 9 months later for costumers for new hardware.
In private industry I am currently preparing to send $500K in hardware back to a vender because an implied assurance(s) wasn't met on hardware performance 18 months after purchase.


People knew they were going to lose their +4 tomes. Chances are they either didn't care enough to worry about it or they had spares sitting around. Personally if I were losing anything not easily obtainable (aka tomes higher than the +3s from the store) I would try to verify that Turbine wasn't up to something. That they encouraged TRing is a good indication that they might have been adding something with a future Update.

Your statement for the three players I know of is very inccorect. They cared a lot about them, especially as the rarity of +4 tomes increased. Two of the three characters that recently got TR (last week) haven't been played in over a year for anything other than sentimental reasons. The issue is how Turbine talked about the new Expansion, promoted TRs, put True Druid Hearts on Sale, AND THEN announce the change a week later.
I can tell you from personal knowledge (hey it was our competitor so I got to laugh at thier pain) if they did that with tangible property AND didn't offer some sort of refund exchange an Attorney General would be breathing down a stores senior management necks. Since we are dealing with intangible property (virtual) many laws do not apply.

Carpone
01-27-2012, 12:08 PM
Would it be possible to make this retroactive change?
When you TR, there's a very clear message that says Turbine does not have access to your old character.

akiraproject24
01-27-2012, 01:50 PM
this is great news! Im just glad I banked every +4 tome i ever pulled...(minus one +4 cha) but that character has not TR'd yet...and now it makes it a lot less painful to do it.

thandros
01-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Actually with tomes stats not going away i will now have no reason Ever to run lower level raids such as Reavers once i get my last few missing +3 tomes. I wonder if they will return the ability to turn in +3 tomes for Crafting mats. I currently have 2 +3 btc wisdom tomes. which means after i eat one this TR i will now have a completely useless +3 tome extra

kzeast
01-27-2012, 04:47 PM
But the people who TRed did it knowing they would lose their +4 tomes and made the choice anyway.

This