PDA

View Full Version : New Raid Loot: Caster's Satchel



Syllph
01-12-2012, 09:12 AM
Caster's Satchel: When this item is kept in your inventory you gain the feat: Eschew Materials. mL: 13

This seems like a fairly streamlined and innovative way to aid casters. Many casters, myself included, think there should be a bag for ingredients. This simple item would not be overpowered and no harder to implement than any of the other items that add a simple feat (weapon proficiency, precise-shot, etc)

It wouldn't take a gear slot and would generally make higher level casting less annoying. At level 20 buying 1000 of level 1-9 mats costs no more than one quest's worth in IQ, but it's just annoying.

Falith12
01-12-2012, 09:16 AM
/signed

Please do something like this!

Firewall
01-12-2012, 01:03 PM
/signed

Maybe we should be able to craft this into a colorless epic item slot too.
It is long overdue that such a thing is implemented.

somenewnoob
01-12-2012, 01:06 PM
You blue bars.....you just have to have everything don't you? Not enough that you're gods of the game while us sword toters are second class citizens......you just want more more more.

/but signed because I'd like one for my blue bars too! :p

Phidius
01-12-2012, 01:06 PM
I cannot think of any item that provides a bonus without you equipping it first. Am I missing one?

I'd rather that they introduced an actual Regent Bag that would hold up to, oh, 10 regents at a time. Auto-gather, and auto-remove, of course.

Kilnedric
01-12-2012, 01:08 PM
I love it.

Maybe an alternate implementation, if say the code needs an item to be equipped to add a feat, how about making it a new eldritch ritual, addable to any accessory slot.

danotmano1998
01-12-2012, 01:11 PM
I'd rather that they introduced an actual Regent Bag that would hold up to, oh, 10 regents at a time. Auto-gather, and auto-remove, of course.

While the original idea is really nice, this idea is more likely to get implemented.
You all know how Turbine covets their bag sales!!
(Yes, I'd buy one for every single caster, guaranteed. Just don't overprice the thing, Turbine!)

Unless this new thing breaks another bag.. or handwraps.. :rolleyes:
Then, no.

TheDearLeader
01-12-2012, 01:12 PM
I have a counter-suggestion.

The bag sounds cool.

Getting it's benefits without having it "equipped" does not.

Have it be coded/equipped to "Quiver".

madmaxhunter
01-12-2012, 01:12 PM
I cannot think of any item that provides a bonus without you equipping it first. Am I missing one?

I'd rather that they introduced an actual Regent Bag that would hold up to, oh, 10 regents at a time. Auto-gather, and auto-remove, of course.

My thoughts exactly, it'd have to be equipped somewhere. Trinket slot would be the most realistic spot. Question is, would casters be willing to give up the trinket slot?

madmaxhunter
01-12-2012, 01:14 PM
I have a counter-suggestion.

The bag sounds cool.

Getting it's benefits without having it "equipped" does not.

Have it be coded/equipped to "Quiver".

Rangers have blue bars too! That would be another slap in their faces.

Phidius
01-12-2012, 01:15 PM
I have a counter-suggestion.

The bag sounds cool.

Getting it's benefits without having it "equipped" does not.

Have it be coded/equipped to "Quiver".

I'd be OK with that, provided that all your spells cost 2 extra spell points while it's equipped.

fuzzy1guy
01-12-2012, 01:16 PM
Redacted

Phidius
01-12-2012, 01:16 PM
... Question is, would casters be willing to give up the trinket slot?

None of mine would. How many people would give up 9 inventory spaces to get a 2nd trinket slot?

Hafeal
01-12-2012, 01:17 PM
At this point, I'll just take a spell compenent bag without the Eschew Materials benefit.

Though I do like DearLeader's idea. No one likes Rangers anyway. :eek::D

somenewnoob
01-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Rangers have blue bars too! That would be another slap in their faces.

(points at rangers and does Simpson's bully laugh)

Ha ha!

TheDearLeader
01-12-2012, 01:19 PM
Rangers have blue bars too! That would be another slap in their faces.

Rangers have 4 Spell Components, Sorc/Wiz/FvS/Clr have 9, not counting the expensive spells.

I think it's a little less of a priority. "Slap in the face" is overkill, no?


I'd be OK with that, provided that all your spells cost 2 extra spell points while it's equipped.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a trade-off for this. Extra spell point cost as you suggest, or some sort of penalty to Max XP, etc.

madmaxhunter
01-12-2012, 01:27 PM
Rangers have 4 Spell Components, Sorc/Wiz/FvS/Clr have 9, not counting the expensive spells.

I think it's a little less of a priority. "Slap in the face" is overkill, no?



No, not meant to be quite as serious as you may have made out. The one nice thing that was only AA was the Quiver of Alacrity, which will never be passed to an AA again. Now he can't even eschew (gesundheit) his 4 mats!


Seriously though, why should the item go to the spot that is absolutely NOT used by most casters? Most equipment is a give and take proposition. you gain something, but lose something else.

Phidius
01-12-2012, 01:29 PM
...
Seriously though, why should the item go to the spot that is absolutely NOT used by most casters? Most equipment is a give and take proposition. you gain something, but lose something else.

How about the belt slot. Kinda like Batman's utility belt - he pulls everything out of that thing.

Jaid314
01-12-2012, 01:33 PM
No, not meant to be quite as serious as you may have made out. The one nice thing that was only AA was the Quiver of Alacrity, which will never be passed to an AA again. Now he can't even eschew (gesundheit) his 4 mats!


Seriously though, why should the item go to the spot that is absolutely NOT used by most casters? Most equipment is a give and take proposition. you gain something, but lose something else.

well, if you make other useful stuff in the quiver slot then people will go back to passing that quiver to arcane archers, so why are you complaining? :p

also, since the quiver of alacrity now grants a bonus to everyone, there *is* competition for the quiver slot :p

also also, arcane archers (the kind of ranger that actually has some sort of need for large amounts of arrows) don't actually use a quiver anyways. if anything, it's worse for artificers :p

danotmano1998
01-12-2012, 01:38 PM
At this point, I'll just take a spell compenent bag without the Eschew Materials benefit.


This is what I was thinking. Eschew materials is a bit of a joke anyhow, as the components that you REALLY want to do away with aren't included. Just give me a spell component bag. Put it in my inventory! Save me 8 slots. Win/win.

somenewnoob
01-12-2012, 01:39 PM
This is what I was thinking. Eschew materials is a bit of a joke anyhow, as the components that you REALLY want to do away with aren't included. Just give me a spell component bag. Put it in my inventory! Save me 8 slots. Win/win.

I want a potion bag for my melees too if we get this!

And a wand storage device!

Why should a lil wand take up as much space as a suit of full plate?

Syllph
01-12-2012, 01:46 PM
Good call on the quiver slot

Hafeal
01-12-2012, 01:46 PM
Why should a lil wand take up as much space as a suit of full plate?

What would be cool is a Quiver which holds wands ... :D

Havok.cry
01-12-2012, 01:54 PM
well, if you make other useful stuff in the quiver slot then people will go back to passing that quiver to arcane archers, so why are you complaining? :p

also, since the quiver of alacrity now grants a bonus to everyone, there *is* competition for the quiver slot :p

also also, arcane archers (the kind of ranger that actually has some sort of need for large amounts of arrows) don't actually use a quiver anyways. if anything, it's worse for artificers :p

Us AA's do too use quivers... we just don't equip them. They are just a bag for silver and adamantine arrows, opened only at boss fights that we don't have an artificer for. If anything arties need quivers even less because they can make their machine guns silver or adamantine, and summon ammo when they need it.

xoowak
01-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Now that they've seemingly solved the issue with consuming items inside bags (which was their excuse for not adding them before), it's time to add spell component bags. I also really, really want scroll cases. I don't even care if you can't use them inside, I just want somewhere to store all the non-buyable scrolls I find.

somenewnoob
01-12-2012, 01:57 PM
What would be cool is a Quiver which holds wands ... :D

Heck yeah!

SardaofChaos
01-12-2012, 02:03 PM
Now that they've seemingly solved the issue with consuming items inside bags (which was their excuse for not adding them before), it's time to add spell component bags. I also really, really want scroll cases. I don't even care if you can't use them inside, I just want somewhere to store all the non-buyable scrolls I find.

I can't think of anything that has changed regarding consuming items inside bags except for that gem bags are broken again. Sure, you can use crafting ingredients from the bags now. The thing is, those are turn-in stations - exactly the same thing as all the other places that check inside bags. Not actions performed any place any time.

Syllph
01-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Yeah lots of junk items for casters. Stuff we need but it just takes up space. It would be nice to have some slot holders. Maybe add Tenser's floating disc ;)

WruntJunior
01-13-2012, 01:31 AM
Now that they've seemingly solved the issue with consuming items inside bags (which was their excuse for not adding them before), it's time to add spell component bags. I also really, really want scroll cases. I don't even care if you can't use them inside, I just want somewhere to store all the non-buyable scrolls I find.

I would like to see both of those myself...my main has almost a bag full of scrolls, most of which are back-up sets of scrolls (especially heal scrolls). I would love the scroll case. As for the ingredient bag....my casters want this so hard.

Roderickus
01-13-2012, 02:38 AM
Good Idea OP


I have a counter-suggestion.

The bag sounds cool.

Getting it's benefits without having it "equipped" does not.

Have it be coded/equipped to "Quiver".
Well said, could be overpowering if u just need to hold it in ur inv.

FranOhmsford
01-13-2012, 02:53 AM
If they put it in the trinket slot NO-ONE'LL use it.

The feat is considered worthless as is.

Belt slot would be logical as D&D has always had belt pouches.

Possibly add a stone of change ritual to add this to any belt.

10 of each mat would also be useless - 25 mats of each lvl / rest I'd say.

Syllph
01-13-2012, 07:45 AM
I can't believe anyone would actually think Eschew Materials is overpowering. At worst buying 1000 of all mats 1-9 (not including special mats not covered by Eschew Materials) runs you about 15k. Those mats will last you days and days. One random loot item from IQ sells for about 4k.

The reason I would make it not equip-able is because the feat is so under-powered. The -only- function it serves is so appease my lazy side and/or free up needed inventory space. I've never, since joining, met a caster who has taken this feat.

Vellrad
01-13-2012, 09:07 AM
I cannot think of any item that provides a bonus without you equipping it first. Am I missing one?


I have this uber Legendary Victory in my inventory, giving me better loot drop rates!
Really!

Aesop
01-13-2012, 09:54 AM
Wand Bracer: This item holds a single wand in it which cannot be removed until all charges are expended. To load a wand into the bracer you bring the wand to the stone of change and combine the two items. Once the charges have all been expended the Bracer can accept another wand.

Spells cast from the Wand Bracer are cast at 2 caster level higher and with a +1 bonus on DC and Spell Penetration. Wands that heal or harm have their effects improved by 10%.


Utility Belt: This Belt grants the user the Eschew Materials Feat automatically activated. Additionally it holds upto 50 Lock Picks, 50 Repair Kits, 50 Healing Kits, and 100 Potions (which are activated as though casting a spell from an item). Once these items are put in the belt they cannot be removed. Potions used from this belt have their casters levels increased by 2 and healing and damaging Potions have their effects increased by 20%. Additionally, The Belt grants Improved Eschew Materials 1.


Efficient Quiver: Holds upto 10 stacks of 1000 arrows. While equipped all ammunition fired has a 50% sturdy rating (or their own whichever is higher). Additionally while this Quiver is equipped each attack with ammunition has a 5% chance to fire a Double Shot.


Aesop

Syllph
01-13-2012, 01:32 PM
I like the utility belt idea! A place for lock picks is a great idea.

Talias006
01-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Rangers have blue bars too! That would be another slap in their faces.

Rangers are in the same boat as Paladins with their 4 spell levels worth of reagents.
Not exactly on par with 9 spell level Arcane and Divine casters.
If you meant about the quiver note, I think Aesop has a very good and well thought solution here:


Wand Bracer: This item holds a single wand in it which cannot be removed until all charges are expended. To load a wand into the bracer you bring the wand to the stone of change and combine the two items. Once the charges have all been expended the Bracer can accept another wand.

Spells cast from the Wand Bracer are cast at 2 caster level higher and with a +1 bonus on DC and Spell Penetration. Wands that heal or harm have their effects improved by 10%.


Utility Belt: This Belt grants the user the Eschew Materials Feat automatically activated. Additionally it holds upto 50 Lock Picks, 50 Repair Kits, 50 Healing Kits, and 100 Potions (which are activated as though casting a spell from an item). Once these items are put in the belt they cannot be removed. Potions used from this belt have their casters levels increased by 2 and healing and damaging Potions have their effects increased by 20%. Additionally, The Belt grants Improved Eschew Materials 1.


Efficient Quiver: Holds upto 10 stacks of 1000 arrows. While equipped all ammunition fired has a 50% sturdy rating (or their own whichever is higher). Additionally while this Quiver is equipped each attack with ammunition has a 5% chance to fire a Double Shot.


Aesop

nolaureltree000
01-13-2012, 08:44 PM
the problem with giving casters a bag to store all their spell components is that these components take the places of all the weapon sets of melees in a lot of cases. so to make things more fair, and to free up more inventory space for everyone, introduce a new set of bags that are all set exclusive as you in may only carry one type of the new bags at one time. they would drop randomly or as part of new content and would all equip to the quiver slot. examples would be:

-spell casting component bag
-larger arrow/bolt quiver
-potion bag
-scroll bag

im sure theres more bags you could come up with, but the idea is to include something usable for just about every toon.

Syllph
01-13-2012, 11:24 PM
the problem with giving casters a bag to store all their spell components is that these components take the places of all the weapon sets of melees in a lot of cases. so to make things more fair, and to free up more inventory space for everyone, introduce a new set of bags that are all set exclusive as you in may only carry one type of the new bags at one time. they would drop randomly or as part of new content and would all equip to the quiver slot. examples would be:

-spell casting component bag
-larger arrow/bolt quiver
-potion bag
-scroll bag

im sure theres more bags you could come up with, but the idea is to include something usable for just about every toon.

Not to de-rail this but my caster also has plenty of weapon sets. His necro set, enchant set, spell pen set, conjuration set, scroll + potency set, etc.

DeltaBravo
01-14-2012, 04:26 AM
Make it drop on some random items.
AND include it to a EPIC blue slot. / DT armor / and other crafting

Forgeborn
01-14-2012, 07:32 AM
Against making it a slotless item myself, wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines implemented though, would much prefer the following 3 to be added Awaken the Titan, to give people some reason to run them.

Caster's satchel:
Belt, ML 9

Wizardry VI: user gains 150 extra spell points
Eschew materials: users can use eschew materials, as the feat
Archmages craft: If the caster possesses the Archmage III enhancement, Eschew materials costs 2 spell points less to use


Utility belt:
Belt, ML 9

Trapsmith's friend: The character is considered to have +2 thieves tools at all times while this item is equipped
Mechanics aid: If the character possesses the Mechanic II enhancement, the thieves tools are considered +4 instead
Open lock +11
Disable device +11


Bottomless quiver:
Quiver, ML 0

10 slots which can contain 1000 arrows each
Endless arrows: creates a stack of 100 +1, 100% returning ammunition, 1/day (summons a pop up screen, allowing to select bolts or arrows)

Ravoc-DDO
01-14-2012, 08:34 AM
While you're at it, make some too with efficient metamagics, for those spells that don't take components.

atlanticsalmon
01-14-2012, 08:37 AM
I haven't read the full thread, but while they're at it a scroll case collectible storage for scrolls would be very useful as well

Forgeborn
01-14-2012, 09:32 AM
I haven't read the full thread, but while they're at it a scroll case collectible storage for scrolls would be very useful as well

Personally I'm hesitant to have any sort of item that needs to be equipped to be stored, with a scroll case the biggest issue I see is having to pull out the scroll before you can use it, which is just a hassle, and really would only be used to 'hoard' 1k+ scrolls at a time. (since we cannot select hotkeys items inside the 'case' at the moment, the most likely solution would be to 'equip top item' sort of use that the quivers have, which would lead to needing heal scrolls, and accidentally loading up with fire shield scrolls instead, or something along those lines)

Potions have the same problem, how do you 'decide' what potions you want to use at that time, the heroism one, the crit heal one, etc., arrows sorta have the same issue, because on my ranged chars (when they have quivers equipped) I find it extremely annoying to load +x greater construct bane arrows when I am shooting devils in the face.

The 3 items I proposed are mostly there for inventory consolidation on consumables that do not need to be equipped (thieves tools, spell components) and a quiver that would allow mechanic rogues, and non AA ranged characters, to still have the 'ease' of not having to restock arrows/bolts after every quest. The utility belt for example is 'weaker' then +15 skill items (or the epic +20 variant), and the tools it creates aren't +5's either, so a 'good' rogue will still carry some +5 thieves tools with him/her to do traps that are absolutely vital, but he won't need to carry 4-5 stacks of tools to last him a few quests

And to sylph:
Melee's have to carry a few more weapon sets if they want to function at their top potential, usually involving a ton of +5 [alignment] burst [metal] [weapon] of greater [creature type] bane. For casters it's much easier to slot everything they would want in 5'ish weapon sets (10 items total) + scrolls, where (two weapon) melees will quickly run into the 20-30 weapons if they want to perform at the top of their potential + scrolls + pots + spell clickies (GH/invis/jump). Sure, they could make do with 'generic trash beaters' but those are in many cases weaker then specialized weapons.

Gizeh
01-14-2012, 11:00 AM
If you need those nine inventory slots that badly, take the eschew materials feat.
Problem solved.

Alternatively, you could make turbine happy by buying that 6th inventory tab. :D

Aesop
01-15-2012, 11:32 AM
Against making it a slotless item myself, wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines implemented though, would much prefer the following 3 to be added Awaken the Titan, to give people some reason to run them.

Caster's satchel:
Belt, ML 9

Wizardry VI: user gains 150 extra spell points
Eschew materials: users can use eschew materials, as the feat
Archmages craft: If the caster possesses the Archmage III enhancement, Eschew materials costs 2 spell points less to use


Utility belt:
Belt, ML 9

Trapsmith's friend: The character is considered to have +2 thieves tools at all times while this item is equipped
Mechanics aid: If the character possesses the Mechanic II enhancement, the thieves tools are considered +4 instead
Open lock +11
Disable device +11


Bottomless quiver:
Quiver, ML 0

10 slots which can contain 1000 arrows each
Endless arrows: creates a stack of 100 +1, 100% returning ammunition, 1/day (summons a pop up screen, allowing to select bolts or arrows)




I like these.

Can we Epicify them?


Quiver summons +1 Transmuting 100% Returning Arrows/Bolts, and Grants a 5% Ranged Double Shot chance.

Satchel increases to Archmagi and grants +2 to Spell DCs

Utility Belt increases to +15 skills, tools to +3/+6(with Mech). Increases Trap Part reclamation by 20%.


something along those lines


Aesop

Forgeborn
01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
I like these.

Can we Epicify them?


Quiver summons +1 Transmuting 100% Returning Arrows/Bolts, and Grants a 5% Ranged Double Shot chance.

Satchel increases to Archmagi and grants +2 to Spell DCs

Utility Belt increases to +15 skills, tools to +3/+6(with Mech). Increases Trap Part reclamation by 20%.


something along those lines


Aesop

I'd say no to epicing them, especially not the satchel idea you propose, the wizardry 6 on the satchel it mostly fluff, and again, inventory/slot consolidation, the spell DC's idea is just a flat out no in my opinion, currently only 1 item grants that, and it takes both hand slots, however, I'd be more open to a +1 to all spell DC's, leaving the +2 to all spell DC's to the epic staff of inner sight but still allowing to consolidate slots. The slot I'd put on it would be a yellow slot.

The quiver idea you propose is interesting, maybe put that in an epic-able pack.. that would mean VoN, or ADQ though. I wouldn't put transmuting, but metalline instead. Ranged damage could use the boost, and being only 5% it would likely be under what the eclaw set does. I'd put it differently though, and instead of what you are proposing, the double strike idea, make it 20% ranged alacrity (5% above haste) to prevent stacking of the double strike stuff. The slot I'd put would be a colorless slot

The utility belt idea is also interesting, +15 skills aren't overpowered in any means, and the trap reclamation is interesting to think about. I'd also add +2 exceptional bonus to int based skills. The slot I'd put here would be a green slot

Aesop
01-15-2012, 04:08 PM
I'd say no to epicing them, especially not the satchel idea you propose, the wizardry 6 on the satchel it mostly fluff, and again, inventory/slot consolidation, the spell DC's idea is just a flat out no in my opinion, currently only 1 item grants that, and it takes both hand slots, however, I'd be more open to a +1 to all spell DC's, leaving the +2 to all spell DC's to the epic staff of inner sight but still allowing to consolidate slots. The slot I'd put on it would be a yellow slot.

The quiver idea you propose is interesting, maybe put that in an epic-able pack.. that would mean VoN, or ADQ though. I wouldn't put transmuting, but metalline instead. Ranged damage could use the boost, and being only 5% it would likely be under what the eclaw set does. I'd put it differently though, and instead of what you are proposing, the double strike idea, make it 20% ranged alacrity (5% above haste) to prevent stacking of the double strike stuff. The slot I'd put would be a colorless slot

The utility belt idea is also interesting, +15 skills aren't overpowered in any means, and the trap reclamation is interesting to think about. I'd also add +2 exceptional bonus to int based skills. The slot I'd put here would be a green slot

Sorry I was thinking of Greater Arcane Lore not sure why I put the +2 DC. Maybe some extra towards Greater Spell Pen 9 instead. After all it is Epic ;). I suppose it would depend on where it came from.

I also meant Metalline not transmuting... Its what i get for typing in a hurry. As for the alacrity I wouldn't want to step on the Quiver of Alacrity's toes maybe we should leave that for it and do something else this one. If they could code it maybe a damage mod while the Quiver is equipped similar to unarmed and handwraps ...only not broken :D. Maybe let that be selectable... or like various versions similar to Rahl or the combined weapons.

Aesop

Aaxeyu
01-15-2012, 04:25 PM
Just remove the cheap components, they add nothing good to the game

Saravis
01-15-2012, 04:43 PM
Just remove the cheap components, they add nothing good to the game

or just have one generic component that stacks to 10k, thats 1k per level + 1k extra.

I'd have an issue with belt slot as that's where all caster belts are from Shav, quiver would be awesome though.

Forgeborn
01-15-2012, 07:06 PM
or just have one generic component that stacks to 10k, thats 1k per level + 1k extra.

I'd have an issue with belt slot as that's where all caster belts are from Shav, quiver would be awesome though.

The issue you most likely have is, 'but if I want to use it, I cannot use [other item] in that slot, which I want to use anyways!'. The two slots I'd see it in are either belt (belt pouch) or trinket (small satchel attached to something)

caster belts from shavarath are mostly clickies anyways, that's the reason why I put it on the belt slot in the first place, it forces people to make decisions, to make sacrifices for utility/ease... a quiver slot is, for everyone that doesn't have a quiver of alacrity, a 'dead' slot, only used to store arrows in, putting on the quiver slot would thus only add to the power of casters, which is something that shouldn't happen at this point in time, casters are extremely powerful as it stands.

AMDarkwolf
01-15-2012, 07:08 PM
OMG ya, Casters need the love, SHOW CASTERS SOME LOVE!

:/

If u get this I want a similar item for melees: Tanks jug- An unlimited cure critical wounds pot :P(Hmm actually thats sounds good :D)

Saravis
01-15-2012, 07:31 PM
The issue you most likely have is, 'but if I want to use it, I cannot use [other item] in that slot, which I want to use anyways!'. The two slots I'd see it in are either belt (belt pouch) or trinket (small satchel attached to something)

caster belts from shavarath are mostly clickies anyways, that's the reason why I put it on the belt slot in the first place, it forces people to make decisions, to make sacrifices for utility/ease... a quiver slot is, for everyone that doesn't have a quiver of alacrity, a 'dead' slot, only used to store arrows in, putting on the quiver slot would thus only add to the power of casters, which is something that shouldn't happen at this point in time, casters are extremely powerful as it stands.

But that isn't a decision, who would choose eschew over the Shav belts?

Those belts aren't just clickies.
Rahkir's set + greater arcane lore = major arcane lore.
All the Savant Sets add 2 to caster level as well as give major elemental lore if you have greater arcane lore.
The divine sets you could live without, but thats it.

So it isn't a matter of it being a decision, its a matter of it being useless at that level.

Finally, regardless of what the forums claim, the general DDO populace doesn't regard arcanes as highly as melee, so I hope you'll excuse me if I couldn't care less if we get more oomph, but sorry that's off topic. I just get tired of people having such a disdain towards arcanes. On the forums, people whine about them being OP and in the game we're restricted in grouping, it's absurdly contradicting.

Forgeborn
01-15-2012, 08:43 PM
But that isn't a decision, who would choose eschew over the Shav belts?

Those belts aren't just clickies.
Rahkir's set + greater arcane lore = major arcane lore.
All the Savant Sets add 2 to caster level as well as give major elemental lore if you have greater arcane lore.
The divine sets you could live without, but thats it.

So it isn't a matter of it being a decision, its a matter of it being useless at that level.


Check the min level on the belt I 'described' before you speak, you're wearing shavarath belts at level 9? curious how you're pulling that off. Sure, there are more different ones, and I don't -hate- arcanes, I have a few myself, I like em here and there, but overall, not my cup of tea. I am not crying for them to be nerfed, I am just against buffing them up even more, and even more so in giving them extra slots to cram stuff in. Now... for them not being OP... They can be incredible OP'd, depending on the circumstances, and the player controlling them. A properly played arcane is leaps and bounds more efficient then a properly played melee, however.

The 'choice' you have at level 9, if that belt would be implemented as it is:
Cannith crafted +6 con/str belt
Cannith crafted Greater false life
Belt of brute strength (strength +6, greater false life)
Some random assorted named belts which aren't worth remembering in my opinion.
and the 'new' Casters satchel we've been describing (wizardry 6, eschew materials)

Like the belt of brute strength, the belt won't be 'viable' at level 18+, it's not intended to be powerful enough to be viable at those levels. Now, if the belt I described would be level 18, then yes, you'd have a point about it being useless (also, then I would have at least given it archmagi, probably Spell focus mastery (+1 to all DC's, as found on the reaver's napkin) and arcane lore, in addition to the eschew materials.) And again, the belt is for utility, not to be 'best in slot'. For the level I put the belt I described at, it seems to be decently powered (wiz 6 slightly earlier then it's normally available, and a little extra)

edit: I should have put it differently, choice of belt slot has multiple reasons. One, it's a slot that makes sense, a caster wouldn't constantly be reaching behind him and rummaging through a quiver to find a single ingredient for his spells, a belt comes with pouches most of the time, so is a lot easier to reach (aesthetic reason if you'd like), second is that it locks out much more efficient items, in favor for utility or 'ease of use', or just freeing using up a few inventory spots, namely ToD sets (you should have outgrown this belt then anyways). A higher level variant would of course be more powerful then the one I described as the level 9 version, but still remain a 'weaker' choice then a ToD set in that slot, albeit not by such a glaring margin as it is now.

also: rakhirs set + greater arcane lore item = 3 slots, this belt is one, if it belt would rival, or be equal to that, why ever wear anything else? (assume you mean rakhirs belt + ring, and green blade/skiver)

and also: what I personally can't understand is that it would suddenly be okay to just freely give a caster 9 extra inventory slots, or if you prefer that term, a free feat, by making it occupy a 'dead' slot, but it's a sin against god to put it in a slot which has more useful choices to pick from. If that would be alright, can I then please get a quiver that grants me power attack? since every melee needs to waste a feat on it anyways it's only utility. Or a way to make my weapons +5 metalline, holy burst, anarchic burst, axiomatic burst (made from glass as it's base material!) of greater everything bane, it's only inventory consolidation!