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Marthesis
01-11-2012, 10:59 AM
(Not so much a new player anymore, but figured this was the best place to ask questions about mechanics)

With Thief-Acrobat 2 giving immunity to knockdown, is there any point to putting points in the balance skill? If so, what situations would it come in handy for?

(No, my thief-acrobat won't be going to do epics. =) )

thwart
01-11-2012, 11:03 AM
I decided to put points into balance as I was leveling up to acrobat-2. I am now placing my points some where else now though.

Infant
01-11-2012, 11:18 AM
(Not so much a new player anymore, but figured this was the best place to ask questions about mechanics)

With Thief-Acrobat 2 giving immunity to knockdown, is there any point to putting points in the balance skill? If so, what situations would it come in handy for?

(No, my thief-acrobat won't be going to do epics. =) )

Warforged Titan special knockdown attack requires a Balance check. If your balance is in the 30ies, you are immune, iirc.

Infant

FuzzyDuck81
01-11-2012, 11:19 AM
I think there are some effects (cant remember them off the top of my head) that the acrobat immunity won't cover, and a better balance score will help with those.

CheeseMilk
01-11-2012, 11:20 AM
I'm on my second life as an acrobat. I put points in balance as I level and then do a lesser reincarnate when I cap and take them all away.

Even as you're levelling, you don't need to max out the skill, you have two points from the improved balance pre-req, and a bonus from the PrE itself. It's nice to get up quickly after you get wolfed or worged at lower levels, though.

Cardtrick
01-11-2012, 11:12 PM
It's worth putting points in, if you can afford it. Command/Greater Command aren't knockdown effects, so you're not immune, but they still put you on your back, and the time it takes you to get up depends on your Balance. I dumped Balance on my acrobat, and it used to take forever to get up when I got Commanded. (Most of the time, you can prevent it with Protection From Evil, but unfortunately most of the enemies that do a lot of commanding also do a lot of dispelling/disjuncting.)

CheeseMilk
01-12-2012, 12:25 AM
There is no balance check to get up after being Commanded, it's a timed effect.

Jaid314
01-12-2012, 02:18 AM
There is no balance check to get up after being Commanded, it's a timed effect.

pretty sure there are additional saves (for players at least, maybe not for mobs), but they're just that: additional saves. will saves, to be specific.

Cardtrick
01-12-2012, 04:03 AM
There is no balance check to get up after being Commanded, it's a timed effect.

I am 99% certain it's not just a timed effect, or if it is then it's a fairly recent change. Some characters get up almost immediately (well, 2 seconds), others take forever. My Balance-dumped acrobat was one that took forever. It was most noticeable (and embarrassing) at the end of epic Snitch, which I used to run every day with that character -- Garos loves to Greater Command, and my guy would just hang around on his back lazily for what seemed like hours after everyone else in the group was back on their feet.

That said, I could be wrong about it being a Balance check. I thought it was a Will save to resist the initial effect followed by recurring Balance checks to get back up before the end of the time limit ( like with other "Prone" effects). But it could just as easily be a recurring Will save, like Jaid314 suggests. The same low-Balance character also had a low Will save.

Calebro
01-12-2012, 04:30 AM
Warforged Titan special knockdown attack requires a Balance check. If your balance is 39, you are immune, iirc.

Infant

fify
Titan knockdown DC is 40, so 39 balance +1 on the roll = immune.


There is no balance check to get up after being Commanded, it's a timed effect.

Correct. It lasts for six seconds. It's considered an ongoing effect, so no secondary saves and no balance check. Unless it has changed and I never noticed, it simply lasts for six seconds, just like the description for the spell states.

As to the original question: You're going to hear a lot of different answers about it. I am personally a balance-hoar*. I like to get balance as high as possible, up to a point where I can buff to 40.

Subtract each appropriate modifier from 39 base and end with that many ranks (if possible).
4 GH - everyone with UMD or enough arcane casting levels
Variable Dex Mod in the planner - everyone
3 Dex item - everyone
1 VotM - everyone
1 HoGF - for TRs that have it
1 Wind Stance - for monk splashes
1 Grandmaster Wind Stance - for monks that have it
5 or 6 GS Dex skills - for any TR that's crafted one
6 Improved Balance prereq & PrE bonus- Acrobats
10 FF boots of Balance +10 - something I craft for all of my toons for Titan use (no shards of potential needed) that multipurposes as my FF item
etc
etc
etc
Add all appropriate modifiers up and subtract that number from 39. The result is exactly how much Balance I give my toons (unless I have extra skill points, in which case I'll raise it higher lowering the need to swap gear). Less if that number is not feasible, but in that case a full 11 cross class ranks will be taken if possible.

It only takes a handful of actual ranks to get to a point where you can buff to 39 on most Acrobats. On a simple build without a ton of gear:
10 boots
8 Dex mod with 15 base +2 tome +3 enhancements +6 item = 26 Dex / +8 mod
4 GH scroll
1 Wind Stance from monk splash
6 Imp Balance & Acro
1 VoTM
-------------
30
So with your basic monk splashed Acro with minimal gear, you need 9 ranks to be able to buff to 39 for the times that you need it. That number lowers as your gear increases. On a TR Acro with a HoGF, GS +5 Dex skills item, and +2 exceptional Dex somewhere, you'd only need 2 ranks to get there.