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zex95966
12-31-2011, 04:00 PM
playing with a group, and wondering which class would best compliment the following makeup:

Warforged Artificer - Will be healing himself only
Helf Sorc - nukes and DPS spells only, no cc, no UMD
undecided race yet, but prob a FTP one, Fighter - first time player. Just assume worst case scenario - an attempted AC build with no feats or equipment to back it up. (it allows me to prepare for the worse case scenario)

I would assume the fighter and one other would bring in cleric/fvs hirelings.

And then there is me.
I realize this party isn't ideal in terms of their capabilities, but I've partied with this group often enough (other than the new fighter) to know what they can and can't (or wont) do.

I am leaning towards a Virt Bard for CC and some backup healing, which i enjoy.

issiana
12-31-2011, 04:21 PM
cleric or FVS (but probably cleric due to its versatility)

the reason i say this is you have no healing abilities (non umd sorc is bad choice imo, talk them into umd it really IS that overpowered to regret not taking it)

also a well built /played cleric/fvs can cc, nuke,melee, heal, basically solo the whole thing and carry a weaker group through it all.

plus you get freedom of movement, deathward, resists, etc which are all very very useful spells for any newbie group.

stoerm
12-31-2011, 04:21 PM
A melee oriented bard sounds good. There's a dwarven 2hf build I saw somewhere, awesome with axe bonuses. Melee fvs is also good.

herzkos
12-31-2011, 04:28 PM
I'm assuming you mean a static group.
that being the case:
i'd recommend a brogue. 2 rogue rest bard if you really want virtuoso.
but is the rest of the party going to be ok with your cc attempts? seems a little
doubtful to me. the whole group seems a little self centered and memememememe for
a good static group.

otherwise i'd go with a cleric/fvs.

Whesper
12-31-2011, 04:43 PM
I understand everyone has different playstyles, but bear with me:

1. Artificer will be healing himself only. Whilst she/he/it could actually replace healer in the majority of quests. It will cost scrolls, but by level 12+ you will be getting all the plat for scrolls you will ever want.
2. Sorc, dps only? No self-sufficiency? With UMD could also replace a healer and be self-sufficient, but sure, everyone loves those 2-shot-wonders that grab all the aggro and then die promptly afterwards or run around kiting screaming for heals. Nothing wrong with that.

I would also suggest a cleric or if you are really into bards- either melee or CC Spellsinger. However, cleric makes more sense to me since you will be also able to get Wis runes in some of the quests that require them.

Callavan
12-31-2011, 05:12 PM
A cleric would compliment such a group quite nicely.

NaturalHazard
12-31-2011, 05:16 PM
Helf Sorc - nukes and DPS spells only, no cc, no UMD
undecided race yet, but prob a FTP one,I am leaning towards a Virt Bard for CC and some backup healing, which i enjoy.

Um im guessing the sorc will be taking cleric dilly for heal scrolls yes? otherwise I would hate to be the one who had to heal him, I can't stand sorc's who have no self healing, umd is the best skill in the game and if your going to have a 40+ charisma score it seems odd not to take it.

zex95966
12-31-2011, 05:21 PM
trust me if I could talk them into UMD etc, I would. It usually just leads to arguments though. = /

another reason to go bard would be to act as hagglebot for the group. they won't be using scrolls on others, but they might for themselves. I forgot to mention the helf will be taking FVS dille, but won't be healing others either.

I suppose it would have been a better title to say: "help me help my group" instead of "help my group" since i'm the only one willing to make changes =P

AMDarkwolf
12-31-2011, 05:40 PM
what u should do is toss their attitude back at them. Make a monk or rog/monk or pally split, be a totally self sufficient 100% solo char, and let them WATCH from your backpack as u solo quest after quest after quest with them ridin as stones to the end.

At lv 10-12 or so suggest a 'reroll' for the group, and 'help' them focus more on 'how can I help' instead of 'how can all you help me' attitude

Whesper
12-31-2011, 06:32 PM
what u should do is toss their attitude back at them. Make a monk or rog/monk or pally split, be a totally self sufficient 100% solo char, and let them WATCH from your backpack as u solo quest after quest after quest with them ridin as stones to the end.

At lv 10-12 or so suggest a 'reroll' for the group, and 'help' them focus more on 'how can I help' instead of 'how can all you help me' attitude

Now we are talking! Morale improves while beatings continue.

DavionFuxa
12-31-2011, 06:45 PM
On the assumption that the Half Elf and the Warforged know what they are doing and they can be left to their own devices, really your focus should be filling out the weaker areas of your party. You will essentially have 1 Melee who is new and may not be able to fill the category very well. You also lack a Divine Caster to hand out Divine Buffs. Finally, you lack a Bard for Songs and the assortment of useful buffs they provide.

Then by your own admitance, your also going to have to take into account that your party members are going to be very self-focussed. They do what they do for themselves and they will probably only wait if you can provide some benefit to them (like Bard Songs or Deathblock or whatever else can help them). This ignores the Melee though who probably will be more focused on learning how to play and won't know what's what.

I'm partially with AMDarkWolf in saying you should create a character that is self-sufficient in screwing the HElf and WF - however at the same time you should have a character that can help the Melee toon out. The Bard class sounds like your best bet for it since you can give him a plethora of Songs or Buffs that he may enjoy. Spellsinger shoudln't be considered but both Warchanter and Virtuoso have their plusses. However, I would say go with Warchanter as it would help out your melee party mate a lot more then the others.

NaturalHazard
12-31-2011, 06:51 PM
what u should do is toss their attitude back at them. Make a monk or rog/monk or pally split, be a totally self sufficient 100% solo char, and let them WATCH from your backpack as u solo quest after quest after quest with them ridin as stones to the end.

At lv 10-12 or so suggest a 'reroll' for the group, and 'help' them focus more on 'how can I help' instead of 'how can all you help me' attitude

*this* that helf sorc sounds like a total tool, i have a helf sorc friend he managed to put in some umd for heal scrolls and will even throw a heal if someone needs it. He also managed to get some buffing spells and some ccing ones as well, all this while still having slots enough for his offensive spells.

Surely the warforged will have umd at least and some healing ability?

I really feel sorry for your fighter friend who is new to the game I would suggest maybe a warchanter bard for him? so he has some heals and wont need a hireling or rely on others cause its going to be a painful intro into the game for him running with those other two.

Havok.cry
12-31-2011, 07:52 PM
Im with the warchanter people. I might also suggest a rogue. Let the newbie/tools have aggro, kill off stuff that might be too much for the new guy, and you still get umd and can get the newbie back on his feat.

moops
12-31-2011, 08:15 PM
Id go with cleric, since you have newer players and can change your spells as each quest requires. . .And have more spell slots. Soundburst is awesome CC til Like Vale maybe, and it allows you to still melee at lower levels until you get BB or your zapping spells. Also Greater Command.

FVS is also a good choice, but since you have newer players and what sounds like an inexperienced Sorc, you will be stuck having to choose between Heals, buffs and CC, and a cleric can usually carry all of these, and earlier than an FVS.

As a Cleric or FVS you can zap casters b4 they damage your group, this is something a hireling cant do.

Mrmorphling
12-31-2011, 08:39 PM
Either a FvS that kill things and heal himself only or a Palemaster that solo things (with scaling too) and is 100% self sufficient.

If you really want to nanny a party of wannabe soloist i would lean towards cleric for sheer versatility

issiana
12-31-2011, 09:53 PM
actually after reading your comments about the rest of the "group" i withdraw my comment about divines.

if you make any sort of healing character then it sounds to me that your "group" is going to demand you spend all your money on scrolls/pots, spend all your time babysitting and in short having no fun whatso ever.

I thereby think now that you should go with the self suffcient guys ideas. make something that is the exact same as everyone else so they all get to learn rather fast that a group of weak self centred characters gets nowhere rather fast.

This is a group game, where by each member of the team helps shore up the weakness in each others characters. sure its solo (i solo all the time) but thats a different kettle of fish to what your "group" is trying to do. Your arti and sorc friends need to learn rather fast that attitudes like theres dont get very far. Dont make the mistake of making something to be the "peace-maker" in this group mix. its likely to end up with you feeling resentful later on.

The monk option sounds the best imo, you look after yourself and can fit into the melee roll nicely. make sure you add in some stealth skills and maybe the ninja path just for flavor and RP a stealthy ninja assassin. let the self centred guys learn from there attitudes :)

Aashrym
12-31-2011, 10:22 PM
I would go with self sufficient too looking at the choices. With no CC yet someone is likely going to want to be able to help that fighter out. Bard, cleric, and FvS would be my choices too. And if your static group ever gets to high levels they might want that CC so a bard provides those options regardless of PrE, plus buffs.

EDIT: I would actually go with the virt, thinking about it. That will give you earlier access to MotD for deleras and necro. You can change later if you want a different PrE.

LordMond63
01-01-2012, 03:45 PM
Under anything approaching normal circumstances, I'd say play a character with some sort of healing capability because it looks like this group is going to need it. Alot of it. Skads of it.

And while that might be the "best" for the group as a whole, what about you? Would you enjoy playing a healer (I'm not going to call it a "babysitter"- even if you focus on healing, it's not like you're only going to be capable of that), with all the frustrations that come from that? Fairly or unfairly (and you might be able to guess which I believe), healers usually get little of the credit for a success and most, if not all, of the blame for a failure. I just want you to be aware of what you might be in for.

But I'd be less than honest if I didn't say that playing a character with great self-sufficiency doesn't have a certain appeal here. If the group is convinced that they are going to be able to get by using divine hirelings to take care of their heals, agree to that and roll your self-sufficient character. I'd think that one trip through Irestone Inlet on elite using hires will convince them of the error of their ways and they'll be a bit more agreeable to discussion. The good news is that you won't have wasted a huge amount of time and thus the re-rolls will be less painful.

One last opinion here: I think I'd strongly urge someone other than the WF being the UMD character due to their very low starting CHA score. Sure, you can put points into CHA to fix that but, really, why not go with a race that has a higher starting CHA and put those points to better use in another stat? Yes, you can mae it work- I've seen a few WF Bards out there- but I'm guessing it's probably not a new-player-friendly build.