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View Full Version : Ok Christmas is over Devs, step 1 to fixing this game



Lagin
12-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Remove Bravery Bonus.

As much fun as it is. It needs to go away!

Kate & Fernando, is this what you people envisioned when you came on board? People doing a full TR in 27 hours?

Sure you might make a few extra bucks by dangling the carrot in front of the donkey with BB and enticing people to buy 30% pots to augment that. But it's part of what's wrong with the game

I'm going to start pointing out specific areas of the game that you really need to address. I wont post a wall of text to give my opinion on what to do. I'm going to give you direct points. You people nerfed it. now you need to fix it!

grodon9999
12-29-2011, 08:34 AM
Hell no. The bravery bonus is the best thing they've done all year.

Hellllboy
12-29-2011, 08:53 AM
Hell no. The bravery bonus is the best thing they've done all year.

I have to agree here-especially for players that do not have a ton of time to invest in the game. :)

Best thing they have done all year.

Galeria
12-29-2011, 09:00 AM
Love the Bravery Bonus. I finally unlocked FvS because people are willing to run a wider array of quests at elite. I think it's one of the best things to happen to the game.

JOTMON
12-29-2011, 09:05 AM
Remove Bravery Bonus.

As much fun as it is. It needs to go away!

Kate & Fernando, is this what you people envisioned when you came on board? People doing a full TR in 27 hours?

Sure you might make a few extra bucks by dangling the carrot in front of the donkey with BB and enticing people to buy 30% pots to augment that. But it's part of what's wrong with the game

I'm going to start pointing out specific areas of the game that you really need to address. I wont post a wall of text to give my opinion on what to do. I'm going to give you direct points. You people nerfed it. now you need to fix it!

I disagree/

If half the server was getting a TR life in in 2 days I would say there was a problem.. but this is not the case.

Taking away the xp bonus does not change this much. instead of 27 hours they would have done it in 32 hours, and to be fair just because someone said they TR'd in 27 hours doesnt mean they actually did.

Even if they did TR in 27 hours kudo's to them that is a redbull/power caffine, pass out for 3 days after event.
They still have to wait 7 days to TR again if they even want to play the game for a week after burning themselves out.

A vetern player and a static duo/grp is capable of generating a lot of zerging xp, but there is little enjoyment in power levelling this way. It gives vetern players something to do, tweak up toons that already have all the gear they want and head for completionist.

The only problem I see is people posting this and solo completions as achievements that some dev somewhere will think... well if one person can do it then it must be too easy lets make it more difficult for the entire gameworld by tripling the mobs hp, add dungeon alert, epic wards, nerf quest XP etc..etc..etc..

Punishing everyone for the uber ability of a few is detrimental to the entire player base.

ka0t1c1sm
12-29-2011, 09:10 AM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=668242&t=o

Whatchoo talkin' bout?

/not signed. The bravery bonus has been a godsend while leveling my TR. So what if a few people are capping TR's in a couple of days? Those kinds of players would be doing it without bravery bonus anyway. This helps the others like us, with lives, not spend an entire one doing it.

Thrudh
12-29-2011, 09:22 AM
Remove Bravery Bonus.

As much fun as it is. It needs to go away!

Kate & Fernando, is this what you people envisioned when you came on board? People doing a full TR in 27 hours?

Sure you might make a few extra bucks by dangling the carrot in front of the donkey with BB and enticing people to buy 30% pots to augment that. But it's part of what's wrong with the game

I'm going to start pointing out specific areas of the game that you really need to address. I wont post a wall of text to give my opinion on what to do. I'm going to give you direct points. You people nerfed it. now you need to fix it!

People TRing in 27 hours are farming certain quests 10x each. The Bravery Bonus is not the problem... Fix the XP on Shadow Crypt and a few other quests if you want to stop 27 hour TRs.

But I see no reason to stop those 27 hour TRs. Those people are buying 20% xp pots like crazy... Turbine's making good money!

slimkj
12-29-2011, 09:25 AM
Hell no. The bravery bonus is the best thing they've done all year.
Indeed.

I don't understand the need for it to go, it's a choice. It seems to be a growing trend here to often want to remove choice. :/

Calebro
12-29-2011, 09:29 AM
ferd's on a roll today folks. :eek:

azrael4h
12-29-2011, 09:30 AM
Not signed. The Bravery bonus is still the shining star out of the mess that came out last year. Removing it is quite possibly the worst thing that Turbine could do, both for short-term profits (xp pot sales are way up I'd imagine) and long term customer retention (I certainly won't TR again without it).

Therrias
12-29-2011, 09:43 AM
People TRing in 27 hours are farming certain quests 10x each. The Bravery Bonus is not the problem... Fix the XP on Shadow Crypt and a few other quests if you want to stop 27 hour TRs.

But I see no reason to stop those 27 hour TRs. Those people are buying 20% xp pots like crazy... Turbine's making good money!

True hearts of wood too, $$$.

Uska
12-29-2011, 09:47 AM
No the fast TR's are very rare and take dedication xp pots and bonus xp days it takes me a long time to tr even with the bb

Cyr
12-29-2011, 09:47 AM
/not signed

Bravery bonus means more average challenge being taken on by players. That is a good thing.

Your point of concern is not shared by me.

Lagin
12-29-2011, 09:48 AM
(xp pot sales are way up I'd imagine) and long term customer retention (I certainly won't TR again without it).

Agreed, I had the hardest time trying to decide to post the thread, let alone making it the first one.

Im enjoying it as much as anybody. but the point stands.

FYI people, Im not ranting. Im writing w/ a smile on my face. Im trying to point out specific topics without offering a solution. Maybe the word of "removing" BB is taken out of context, but it is part of the big picture of game imbalance. (little things add up to big things)

Uska
12-29-2011, 09:49 AM
ferd's on a roll today folks. :eek:

For a rare occasion I agree with you:eek:

rdasca
12-29-2011, 09:56 AM
/no signed

Really you are worried how fast someone else is leveling thier toons?

azrael4h
12-29-2011, 10:18 AM
Agreed, I had the hardest time trying to decide to post the thread, let alone making it the first one.

Im enjoying it as much as anybody. but the point stands.

FYI people, Im not ranting. Im writing w/ a smile on my face. Im trying to point out specific topics without offering a solution. Maybe the word of "removing" BB is taken out of context, but it is part of the big picture of game imbalance. (little things add up to big things)

It honestly looks more like trolling. Particularly with this topic.

TRing doesn't add so much power to a character as does the gear you aquire during the first life. Having a Carnifex at level 4 and a Charged Gauntlet at level 5 is a far cry from not getting a Charged Gauntlet until level 20, and having a Carnifex finally drop when you're banking level 10 and halfway to 11 due to farming for the bloody thing. Having Greensteel 45hp and LitII and 3xPos at 11/12 instead of 20 makes a massive difference.

Then you add in better knowledge of building a character, and of what works and what doesn't. Going from first life to second usually means a marked improvement on the build in question, even if going back to the same class.

The skills and fore-knowledge gained also plays a huge part in it as well; with the exception on two guildies, one of whom I've mentioned repeatedly as being a ****-poor player, the other who played exclusively melee and decided he wanted to try a "hocus-pocus type" this life and thus has no experience playing his class at all, we've all see marked improvements in our abilities. Even before getting to the good gear, stuff that gave us trouble before is a cakewalk on elite.

So a fast TR will have no effect on game balance, no more than a slow one. Even with 3x lives in multiple classes, the power increase is not that great compared to knowing what things work well, what doesn't, where the traps are, and having awesome gear laying in wait for each level.

gloopygloop
12-29-2011, 10:40 AM
Remove Bravery Bonus.

As much fun as it is. It needs to go away!

Kate & Fernando, is this what you people envisioned when you came on board? People doing a full TR in 27 hours?

Sure you might make a few extra bucks by dangling the carrot in front of the donkey with BB and enticing people to buy 30% pots to augment that. But it's part of what's wrong with the game

I'm going to start pointing out specific areas of the game that you really need to address. I wont post a wall of text to give my opinion on what to do. I'm going to give you direct points. You people nerfed it. now you need to fix it!

Oh noes! People are leveling quickly and having fun!

Won't someone think of the children?!?

Memnir
12-29-2011, 10:42 AM
No.

MRMechMan
12-29-2011, 10:57 AM
No. Bravery is fine.

Actually, it's more then fine, it's a great addition to the game!

(I never understand why some people get upset when other people do something great and doesn't effect them in the slightest. Bet you fumed for a week over the first Epic LOB completion, didn't you?)

NytCrawlr
12-29-2011, 11:01 AM
Kate & Fernando, is this what you people envisioned when you came on board? People doing a full TR in 27 hours?

Just because a small part of the gaming population has the time to do this, doesn't mean the rest of us with jobs, family, etc., can do that.

So definitely not in agreement with this part. Like a few others have said, this is one of the best things they did to the game this year and it actually makes me want to TR now on some level, as opposed to staying at cap forever once I was there with a character.

Angelus_dead
12-29-2011, 11:02 AM
REAL number 1 step to fixing the game:

Create a known issues list

NytCrawlr
12-29-2011, 11:03 AM
REAL number 1 step to fixing the game:

Create a known issues list

Agreed!

Lagin
12-29-2011, 11:08 AM
Sorry if the variety of the threads is close to a spam, that is not my intention.

Nor is it my intention to come off sounding like these are rants, They are not.

I was trying to help spur debate on specific issues that unto themselves are no game breakers, but rather an overall contributing factor to IMPROVE the game.

I will strive to consolidate my future thoughts & posts that are not so spread out as to be considered spamming.

I am as passionate about this game as anyone else here. And make all of my posts with a smile, not as rants.

Talon_Moonshadow
12-29-2011, 11:10 AM
As much as I hate the whole XP/minute thing....

I haven't heard a complaint about "lost 10%" in quite a while now. and that is a good thing.

I have seen very few people running normal fifty times in a row on their god-like characters, and that is a good thing.

Powerful TRs are running elite.....like they should have ben all along and that is a good thing.

People aren't putting off running lvl 16 content until they are lvl 19 (18 and holding)
and that is a good thing.




Now.... I have always hated the whole TR thing.
And I do hate the fact that people can easily lvl up to 20 so quickly.

But TRs are here to stay.
People were trying to lvl up as quickly as they could anyway.

BB has just made it less stressful.
....for the rest of us who have to run with the jerks.

Autolycus
12-29-2011, 11:12 AM
REAL number 1 step to fixing the game:

Create a known issues list

Agreed with the following modification:

Create a public known issues list

NytCrawlr
12-29-2011, 11:14 AM
And yeah, sorry, read all other ideas #2-#5 and have to disagree with pretty much all of them.

I'll give that you have passion and love the game, but I think you are going about it the wrong way.

Creating a known issues list, resolving some of the problems from said list that have been around for awhile, actually completing the base of the game and cleaning up little things here and there (mostly voice overs and DM narrations in most of the Vale quests that don't actually match what is going on) is the best thing they could do, IMO, to further improve this game.

Galeria
12-29-2011, 11:20 AM
It would be awesome to see an official known issues list (that includes the ones everyone knows but have never been on a list) and see some sort of progress being made steadily on it.

I think if they acknowledged the things that actually don't work and let us know they plan to fix them (instead of ignoring that they exist, leading us to believe that they are happy with the way things are) a lot of people would feel a lot more positive about the game.

Right now, the known issues list seems to simply be a lot of stuff we tentatively acknowledge isn't WAI and we don't necessarily plan to do anything about...

Thrudh
12-29-2011, 11:31 AM
Sorry if the variety of the threads is close to a spam, that is not my intention.

Nor is it my intention to come off sounding like these are rants, They are not.

I was trying to help spur debate on specific issues that unto themselves are no game breakers, but rather an overall contributing factor to IMPROVE the game.

I will strive to consolidate my future thoughts & posts that are not so spread out as to be considered spamming.

I am as passionate about this game as anyone else here. And make all of my posts with a smile, not as rants.

Again, you are misguided here... BB has very little to do with people TRing quickly.

(1) I don't agree that TRing quickly is a problem to be solved.
(2) Changing BB will not solve that problem.

Changing BB will have very little impact on people who are TRing quickly, and a huge impact on those of us who TR slow.

Me, I did one double-TR before BB... And I resolved to never do it again. Now, I have plans to double-TR two more of my guys, and maybe even triple-TR one of them.

More fun for me, more money for Turbine (since I buy Hearts of Wood and exp potions)

azrael4h
12-29-2011, 12:44 PM
Agreed with the following modification:

Create a public known issues list

Only if they intend to work on said known issues. Since the current plan is to ignore all known issues, then no point to it.

mystafyi
12-29-2011, 01:17 PM
Those people are buying 20% xp pots like crazy... Turbine's making good money!

I highly doubt that. True hearts of wood = 20 epic tokens. You can obtain that within 3 hours of running challenges(conservative time there btw)
10% xp pots = small ebberon shards and more recently now 150 mats from the challenges.(yes i know they "say" 5%)
20% xp pots = medium ebberon shards. (harder to find)

But, lets say these folks actually want to buy items from the ddo store. 1 TR using bravery bonus will net you approximately 2400 favor(conservative number). Thats 600 free Turbine Points, more then enough to buy a stack of xp pots from the store.

Thrudh
12-29-2011, 01:21 PM
I highly doubt that. True hearts of wood = 20 epic tokens. You can obtain that within 3 hours of running challenges(conservative time there btw)
10% xp pots = small ebberon shards and more recently now 150 mats from the challenges.(yes i know they "say" 5%)
20% xp pots = medium ebberon shards. (harder to find)

But, lets say these folks actually want to buy items from the ddo store. 1 TR using bravery bonus will net you approximately 2400 favor(conservative number). Thats 600 free Turbine Points, more then enough to buy a stack of xp pots from the store.

The people doing a TR in 27 hours are not getting 2400 favor.

But you're possibly right about true hearts of wood, now that challenges can be used to generate epic tokens (of course that means you have to buy the challenges pack, and that's decent money for Turbine too)

herzkos
12-29-2011, 01:27 PM
think i'm going to be the first person to post here supporting the OP :o

but not for the reason he gave, I couldn't give two hoots about how fast
someone TR's back up to 20.
The reason I'd support it is the lack of non-elite lfms that I've seen the last
couple of times I've logged on. Everyone wants to run everything elite, whether
they are ready or not. Even brand new folks who don't even know the quests
are running elite, example Butcher's path: one guy dropped from party because
he had already run it, another guy said he couldn't get in because he hadn't done it
on hard yet . . .(what???? yupp, seriously, that's what he said). think i was the
only person in the party who knew how to open the "hidden treasure" and we didn't
get it because the rest of the party was too busy dieing in the double strike lightning tunnel.
And all of them insisted on running elite.
we only completed because myself and another fresh off the boat wizzy had a clue how to play
the game.

Anyway, my point is, I fear for the future of the game if new people are being trained up like this
by the system. And people still wonder why players get to level 20 without a clue how to play
their characters. Well here's the answer: they get carried with massive bonus xp by people
who do know what they're doing and then they end up in your raid/epic.

Meat-Head
12-29-2011, 01:30 PM
No way. BB is good. XP pot sales.are good. Even 27 hour yes are.good cause people are having fun, throwing down a challenge, and it will likely lead to.more XP pot sales. Very few will repeat that feat.

Diyon
12-29-2011, 01:46 PM
I think the bravery bonus is a great thing. However I think it has a problem that should be addressed (not sure how that could be accomplished):

While there are more elite LFMs for stuff there wasn't before, I think that the BB has hurt pre-end game/lvl20 PUGing. Particularly running anything on something other than elite. It's possible for this to not have the issue, but with the way people are approaching it, it exists. You now have lots of PUGs that insist on elite, even if its way beyond them. Non-elite PUGs hardly get anyone. The elite pugs will often sit there forever insistent on filling rather than going ahead and running it shortman or on a lower difficulty.

There's next to no one, TRs to first lifers, that is willing to ever break this bonus. And those that are, are few enough that they have a hard time grouping outside that. I get the feeling that there are lots who want to join an LFM that look at the grouping tab and none of the eligible groups are running elite, and since they don't want to lose their bonus, they just sit there and wait until a group does come up, whereas before the bonus, they'd have no problem joining on of those LFMs.

The BB is good that it helps the TRs grind, but I think it needs to be adjusted. If anything, I think the part that needs to be changed is the "streak" aspect of it. Not getting the BB on one quest every so often is something most people would probably accept, its the killing their bonus for future quests by doing so that deters people I think.

Talon_Moonshadow
12-29-2011, 01:49 PM
think i'm going to be the first person to post here supporting the OP :o

but not for the reason he gave, I couldn't give two hoots about how fast
someone TR's back up to 20.
The reason I'd support it is the lack of non-elite lfms that I've seen the last
couple of times I've logged on. Everyone wants to run everything elite, whether
they are ready or not. Even brand new folks who don't even know the quests
are running elite, example Butcher's path: one guy dropped from party because
he had already run it, another guy said he couldn't get in because he hadn't done it
on hard yet . . .(what???? yupp, seriously, that's what he said). think i was the
only person in the party who knew how to open the "hidden treasure" and we didn't
get it because the rest of the party was too busy dieing in the double strike lightning tunnel.
And all of them insisted on running elite.
we only completed because myself and another fresh off the boat wizzy had a clue how to play
the game.

Anyway, my point is, I fear for the future of the game if new people are being trained up like this
by the system. And people still wonder why players get to level 20 without a clue how to play
their characters. Well here's the answer: they get carried with massive bonus xp by people
who do know what they're doing and then they end up in your raid/epic.

it may be hard for new playeers, but I hae to be slightly selfish with what I support. :p

"elite" is exactly what I want to run.
I like favor.
I've done most quests hundreds of times.
I can usually handle elite even on an obscure server with no gear. (although it does depend on the group, and there are a few real tough elites out there too)

and...add to it that there are sooo many TRs running around these days.

I am perfectly fine with most of the LFMs being for elite.
and that is not based on XP at all. Simply on the challenge level I want to run, and the favor I want to get.

Talon_Moonshadow
12-29-2011, 01:58 PM
I think the bravery bonus is a great thing. However I think it has a problem that should be addressed (not sure how that could be accomplished):

While there are more elite LFMs for stuff there wasn't before, I think that the BB has hurt pre-end game/lvl20 PUGing. Particularly running anything on something other than elite. It's possible for this to not have the issue, but with the way people are approaching it, it exists. You now have lots of PUGs that insist on elite, even if its way beyond them. Non-elite PUGs hardly get anyone. The elite pugs will often sit there forever insistent on filling rather than going ahead and running it shortman or on a lower difficulty.

There's next to no one, TRs to first lifers, that is willing to ever break this bonus. And those that are, are few enough that they have a hard time grouping outside that. I get the feeling that there are lots who want to join an LFM that look at the grouping tab and none of the eligible groups are running elite, and since they don't want to lose their bonus, they just sit there and wait until a group does come up, whereas before the bonus, they'd have no problem joining on of those LFMs.

The BB is good that it helps the TRs grind, but I think it needs to be adjusted. If anything, I think the part that needs to be changed is the "streak" aspect of it. Not getting the BB on one quest every so often is something most people would probably accept, its the killing their bonus for future quests by doing so that deters people I think.

I can see this being a problem for lvl 15+ quests.

There are some high lvl quests that are a real pain to do on elite.

Clerics won't join the elite runs knowing they will use every pot they own to complete an elite run.
Many people cannot do elite, or cannot get a healer for it.

an easier difficulty would be more appropriate and fun, but no one will join because they don't want to break an elite streak. :(

mystafyi
12-29-2011, 02:15 PM
The people doing a TR in 27 hours are not getting 2400 favor.

Yes, you are correct. they would be pulling about 1200-1400, probably a bit more without any xp bonus running on top (ie like the 20% currently running).

So let me revise that and say they are also pulling down 300-400 TP per 27 hour TR.

Darkrok
12-29-2011, 02:23 PM
/not signed

Bravery bonus was a great addition to the game.

Removing bravery bonus would therefore be a bad thing.

Talias006
12-29-2011, 07:14 PM
How about a big Hell No to removing a very nice bonus to people that try to have a life outside of DDO?