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AbyssalMage
12-16-2011, 01:11 PM
Wanting to build a Cleric (pure) for fun (and Blade Barrier) but confused about a few things :(

Is CHR needed or is it a dump stat? I know Paladins want high CHR for the enhancement line that both CLR/PAL get but do CLR actually use this line? I also know it affects how well you do Turn Undead but again, I know a lot of items increase your TU ability so....?

Anyways, that's where my main confusion lays.
Thinking...

Str 14-16 (I'll melee at lower levels but not sure how much of a help at higher levels this will be)
Dex 8 (Dump stat and no evasion so don't feel like I'm losing alot....)
Con 14-16 (Hp's are good, 16 if Dwarf btw)
Int 10-12 (Skill points mainly: Concentration, Balance, and UMD {Fire Scroll?})
Wis 18 (DC's of spells. They'll be crappy at 20 but should help "the ride there")
Chr 6-10 (Other than UMD and TU, not really sure where this should start. Oh, and the enhancement line)

Gadget2775
12-16-2011, 01:16 PM
Higher Charisma = more Turn Undeads. More Turns = more Healing Aura and Healing Burst from the PrE. More burst = MoBetta :)

danotmano1998
12-16-2011, 01:25 PM
Wanting to build a Cleric (pure) for fun (and Blade Barrier) but confused about a few things :(

Is CHR needed or is it a dump stat? I know Paladins want high CHR for the enhancement line that both CLR/PAL get but do CLR actually use this line? I also know it affects how well you do Turn Undead but again, I know a lot of items increase your TU ability so....?

Anyways, that's where my main confusion lays.
Thinking...

Str 14-16 (I'll melee at lower levels but not sure how much of a help at higher levels this will be)
Dex 8 (Dump stat and no evasion so don't feel like I'm losing alot....)
Con 14-16 (Hp's are good, 16 if Dwarf btw)
Int 10-12 (Skill points mainly: Concentration, Balance, and UMD {Fire Scroll?})
Wis 18 (DC's of spells. They'll be crappy at 20 but should help "the ride there")
Chr 6-10 (Other than UMD and TU, not really sure where this should start. Oh, and the enhancement line)

If you're looking at UMD, Charisma is good.
Plus, as the above poster mentioned, more turns = more bursts, more aura heals.
(Turn undead the ability is a joke. But at least they made it useful with radiant goodness!!)

morticianjohn
12-16-2011, 01:31 PM
If you're looking at UMD, Charisma is good.
Plus, as the above poster mentioned, more turns = more bursts, more aura heals.
(Turn undead the ability is a joke. But at least they made it useful with radiant goodness!!)

Turn undead works really well for low-level content that clerics may otherwise take longer to solo than other classes. Examples are delara's graveyard, enemy within and I've even seen some clerics put it to good use in madstone crater.

twiliteslayer02
12-16-2011, 01:32 PM
If you have good gear you can, although illadvised, lose a few points of str and con, to boost cha and wis, con last of all, because hitpoints are good ;)


The low levs, I use summons and hirelings, and a good heavy mace. having the higher cha and its resultant turning effectiveness is awesoomely cool.


Summary:

If pure heals/Radiant Servant, My advice is max cha and wis and con, priority, 1:wis 2:Cha or Con dependant on how well you want to turn undead and all of the things that go along with it.

jwdaniels
12-16-2011, 02:05 PM
You want an 18 wisdom. After that, 14 in con and in strength should be plenty - the 14 strength goes to 18 with bull's strength and theoretically you won't be meleeing much late anyway as a pure cleric and the extra 20 HP from two more points of con just isn't worth it - the constant healing from your aura will keep you going very well.

Dexterity of 8 is fine - at low levels you can wear heavy armor and at high levels you're not going to generate a meaningful AC anyway - and for intelligence you really don't need much in the way of skills - you can even get by without balance as you have freedom of movement and your healing aura will keep on ticking if you're tripped - so no higher than 10.

Put the rest into charisma and you're good to go.

EDIT: As someone else said, turn undead is awesome at lower levels (which is handy because there are a lot of undead at lower levels) but once you start getting into the Sands and beyond stop using it. Don't forget that your burst damages undead, and once you reach that point your healing is probably buffed up enough that your bursts will do some serious damage to undead.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 02:20 PM
CHA is definitely less important on a pure casting/healer cleric than it is on a pally.

Turn Undead = not gonna use this a lot. So don't PLAN your cha around it.


If it were me, my stat priorities would be:

WIS
CON
CHA
STR or INT
DEX

In fact, you only NEED concentration. So INT is not too important. Howver, you can go human, which is a great choice for a cleric (if not best), and have the extra skill point for UMD even while dumping INT.

So, on a human 32 pt build I would do this:

Str- 8 (0 pts)
Dex- 8 (0 pts)
Con-16 (10 pts)
Int- 8 (0 pts)
Wis- 18 (16 pts)
Cha- 14 (6 pts)

jwdaniels
12-16-2011, 02:30 PM
CHA is definitely less important on a pure casting/healer cleric than it is on a pally.

Turn Undead = not gonna use this a lot. So don't PLAN your cha around it.


If it were me, my stat priorities would be:

WIS
CON
CHA
STR or INT
DEX

In fact, you only NEED concentration. So INT is not too important. Howver, you can go human, which is a great choice for a cleric (if not best), and have the extra skill point for UMD even while dumping INT.

So, on a human 32 pt build I would do this:

Str- 8 (0 pts)
Dex- 8 (0 pts)
Con-16 (10 pts)
Int- 8 (0 pts)
Wis- 18 (16 pts)
Cha- 14 (6 pts)

I would take Con down to 14 (and probably Cha down to 12) and bump strenght up to 12 (or 14 if you lower charisma) but this is a solid stat array. Basically, as long as your wisdom is an 18 and you have enough hit points to survive taking damage you'll be okay. It's actually hard to run out of turn undead/aura/burst attempts because they regenerate over time. At cap, you will regenerate one attempt every 2 minuts and your auras last about 1:55 so unless you're bursting non-stop you will be fine with either a 12 or 14 charisma.

somenewnoob
12-16-2011, 02:38 PM
Like others said, UMD, and more turns = more bursts/auras

I think I started out with 14 cha on my cleric iirc. Max wis, some cha, some con....some str if you plan on meleeing.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 02:46 PM
I kind of feel like STR on a cleric needs to be all or nuthin. You need to pick melee or casting on a cleric. If you want to melee, then drop CHA for STR. If you don't want to melee, dump str.

Just my opinion. I know it helps in the early levels to be able to swing the GA.. But, you'll be happy later unless you want to melee all along the way. But, if you want meaningful UMD like you stated.. STR is a dumper imo.

Callavan
12-16-2011, 02:55 PM
I kind of feel like STR on a cleric needs to be all or nuthin. You need to pick melee or casting on a cleric. If you want to melee, then drop CHA for STR. If you don't want to melee, dump str.

Just my opinion. I know it helps in the early levels to be able to swing the GA.. But, you'll be happy later unless you want to melee all along the way. But, if you want meaningful UMD like you stated.. STR is a dumper imo.

STR shouldn't be a dump stat in DDO for any character. It's too easy to get disabled by poison, enervation, and enfeeblement; if your strength is low to start with you'll be rendered absolutely helpless in very short order when any of these start happening.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 02:57 PM
STR shouldn't be a dump stat in DDO for any character. It's too easy to get disabled by poison, enervation, and enfeeblement; if your strength is low to start with you'll be rendered absolutely helpless in very short order when any of these start happening.


+6 item and rad burst should be fine for the vast majority of cases. DW also helps.

Clerics are one class where you can get away with this without much trouble imo.

Callavan
12-16-2011, 03:09 PM
+6 item and rad burst should be fine for the vast majority of cases. DW also helps.

Clerics are one class where you can get away with this without much trouble imo.

Sure, but I figured advice in the New Player forum should probably be given on the assumption that new players don't have +6 items laying around in their vault to bring along with their new characters. I know I didn't.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 03:13 PM
Sure, but I figured advice in the New Player forum should probably be given on the assumption that new players don't have +6 items laying around in their vault to bring along with their new characters. I know I didn't.


Bro, +6 str items are cheap on the AH. Not hard to get at all. Run shroud ONCE, sell your vendor junk, and go buy one if you haven't looted one by then.

The above is not an exaggeration at all.

ArcaneMelee
12-16-2011, 03:20 PM
I've always found that the most expensive part of equipping a +6 Str item on a build that has dumped Str has been giving up the item slot.

Putting a few build points into Str is more helpful than putting those points into Cha, IMHO.

Callavan
12-16-2011, 03:22 PM
I found this build when I was coming back into the game and wanting to build a decent cleric. I chose to tweak a feat/enhancement or three but it still plays pretty well for me. If you're working from a 28 point build, you can knock a couple off constitution, strength, or maybe wisdom or charisma (you get the WIS/CHA back later anyway), but split the damage between at least a couple of stats. If you need to make up for it, there are tomes and +x items to find for that. You want something that will be fun right out of the gate, though, and a 8 STR character isn't much fun.

As is, this should do everything you need a cleric to do.


Here is a stan dard 32 point human generalist cleric. Not geared. No TOmes. The feats can be shuffled (so can theenhancements) but at the end, pretty powerful. AND IT CAN HEAL, TOO.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

bestcleric generalist
Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(20 Cleric)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1652
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 5
Will: 20

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 12
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 18 22
Charisma 14 14

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 3
Heal 4 9
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 1 1
Listen 4 8
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 4 8
Swim 1 1
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 4 14

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II





Enjoy.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 03:30 PM
Yeah, there's nothing WRONG with the above build in terms of stat points. But by cap, that 12 STR aint doing anything for you. Just sayin.

Callavan
12-16-2011, 03:38 PM
Yeah, there's nothing WRONG with the above build in terms of stat points. But by cap, that 12 STR aint doing anything for you. Just sayin.

The OP didn't say he needed a build that qualifies for UBER-TOON status by cap. He said he wanted to build a cleric to have fun with. When I build a character designed with fun in mind, that means it needs to be fun at low levels too, not just at cap. That's what the 12 STR is for. Running around at the lowbie levels with 8 STR is not fun. That's the mistake I made with my first cleric and I won't make that same mistake again, nor will I advise any new player to do so.

By the time you reach cap, you can find tomes and +x items to compensate for whatever stat you decided to dump. It's not so easily done when you're a new character coming out of Korthos without a phat loot vault and a fist full of plat-capped toons to support your endeavors.

ArcaneMelee
12-16-2011, 03:38 PM
Yeah, there's nothing WRONG with the above build in terms of stat points. But by cap, that 12 STR aint doing anything for you. Just sayin.

Well, it's keeping him from needing to slot Str somewhere.

jwdaniels
12-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Yeah, there's nothing WRONG with the above build in terms of stat points. But by cap, that 12 STR aint doing anything for you. Just sayin.

Not entirely true - a slightly higher strength allows you to smack things with your Watcher's Blade more often so it's easier to implode it.

I'd argue that the difference between 8 strength and 12 strenght is far more significant than the 16 con vs. 14 con that you're using those points for.

morticianjohn
12-16-2011, 03:47 PM
Yeah, there's nothing WRONG with the above build in terms of stat points. But by cap, that 12 STR aint doing anything for you. Just sayin.

In quests where enemies use symbol of weakness and other str debuffs even a +6 str item won't save you from becoming burdened or worse. A few points in strength makes a world of difference for carrying capacity. I even know some monks who have become uncentered after looting a chest in shroud.

Meat-Head
12-16-2011, 03:48 PM
Not entirely true - a slightly higher strength allows you to smack things with your Watcher's Blade more often so it's easier to implode it.

I'd argue that the difference between 8 strength and 12 strenght is far more significant than the 16 con vs. 14 con that you're using those points for.

fair nuff