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PonyExpress
12-14-2011, 08:10 PM
Lately, we have been doing a membership drive and have had a rash of chest looting, followed by the new member leaving the guild.

I would suggest a 5 item limit that some one can remove from chest per day. An exception would be if that particular person added the items.

I really think it is unfair for a new person to come to a guild and loot the chest, then leave. Its happened three times this week.

Falco_Easts
12-14-2011, 09:50 PM
Lately, we have been doing a membership drive and have had a rash of chest looting, followed by the new member leaving the guild.

I would suggest a 5 item limit that some one can remove from chest per day. An exception would be if that particular person added the items.

I really think it is unfair for a new person to come to a guild and loot the chest, then leave. Its happened three times this week.

Umm, it was a guild chest and they were guild members withdrawing guild items from the guild chest.

I would suggest your recruiting methods are to blame, not the people who took advantage of them.

DanteEnFuego
12-14-2011, 10:10 PM
/not signed.

I agree that recruiting may be the issue. As a designated guild crafter, removal limits would be a nightmare.

PonyExpress
12-14-2011, 10:15 PM
I would suggest your recruiting methods are to blame, not the people who took advantage of them.

I am just asking for a method to manage my resources. You sound like you are person of poor character and would do the same. My bank will stop transactions that are suspicious, I am looking for the same philosophy regarding guild resources.

TEcarson
12-14-2011, 10:58 PM
I am just asking for a method to manage my resources. You sound like you are person of poor character and would do the same. My bank will stop transactions that are suspicious, I am looking for the same philosophy regarding guild resources.

I would guess that if your bank left a box of money in the middle of the floor, they would not be able to label transactions as suspicious.

Calling someone a "person of poor character" is in itself pretty poor.

Maybe you should consider rolling a FTP char and make it the guild Quartermaster, and give your officers the password to the account.

PonyExpress
12-14-2011, 11:04 PM
/not signed.

As a designated guild crafter, removal limits would be a nightmare.

This is a very legitimate concern. My suggestion would be that officers are not subject to limit.

Havok.cry
12-14-2011, 11:14 PM
Any method used to limit withdrawls would end up being unfair to someone. Who would you like to suffer to gain this?

PonyExpress
12-14-2011, 11:19 PM
Any method used to limit withdrawls would end up being unfair to someone. Who would you like to suffer to gain this?

Please explain, I do not see the unfairness.

Havok.cry
12-14-2011, 11:27 PM
Please explain, I do not see the unfairness.

Im on my phone at work, will give explanation in about an hour when Im home.

Edit: ok settled in and typing now...

Falco_Easts
12-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I am just asking for a method to manage my resources. You sound like you are person of poor character and would do the same. My bank will stop transactions that are suspicious, I am looking for the same philosophy regarding guild resources.

No actually I am not the kind of person that would do that but thanks for the snap character judgement.

To use your bank anology, if you have a credit card and setup cards linked to this for your wife and kids "for use in an emergency" and the kids used the cards and maxed it out. Do you think the bank would do anything? No, because the cards were used in the way they were intended. What they were used for is not their problem. Same as your guild chest. Guild members took the items. Not random strangers. Not GM's. Guild members took items out of your guild chest. Let that sink in.

If it really concers you, get an officer only chest and they hand out the items.

PonyExpress
12-15-2011, 12:15 AM
No actually I am not the kind of person that would do that but thanks for the snap character judgement.

Yes it was, and will apologize for the remark.



To use your bank anology, if you have a credit card and setup cards linked to this for your wife and kids "for use in an emergency" and the kids used the cards and maxed it out. Do you think the bank would do anything? No, because the cards were used in the way they were intended. .....

Umm, my kids do have bank accounts, and the bank does give me the control of limiting withdrawals. yes I have had cards stolen in the past, and Visa forgave the stolen charges. I have also had Visa call me and ask if a particular purchase is legitimate.

Havok.cry
12-15-2011, 12:41 AM
Ok as I was typing this I thought of counter arguments to every point I was going to make so I'm going to withdraw from the conversation lol.

PonyExpress
12-15-2011, 12:54 AM
Ok as I was typing this I thought of counter arguments to every point I was going to make so I'm going to withdraw from the conversation lol.

hmm, may I suggest that you make your argument anyway. I would like to see the points and counter points. A vigorous discussion will either aid or eliminate the idea from developer minds. May as well present the facts. Developers should know the strengths and weaknesses of any proposal.

AZgreentea
12-15-2011, 01:05 AM
If you are having problems with theft from regular members, try switching to the special access chest, which only allows officers to withdraw. A daily limit just means it will take longer for them to steal from you, it wouldn't actually prevent it.

Havok.cry
12-15-2011, 02:21 AM
hmm, may I suggest that you make your argument anyway. I would like to see the points and counter points. A vigorous discussion will either aid or eliminate the idea from developer minds. May as well present the facts. Developers should know the strengths and weaknesses of any proposal.

Blanket Limit: Everyone gets hit... equally.. it will just suck for everyone.

Limit except for officers: See blanket limit... except for oficers. pro trusted people get rewarded, con it doesn't help megaguilds at all (speaking of the ones that auto promote for mass recruiting)

Titfortat: Put something in to take something out. people who need something will generally tend to just throw in junk in order to get the stuff they need. It will get cluttered quickly. and remain that way as every good item will be replaced by something useless quickly. Fortunately it might give your crafter some vendor trash to make up for their hard work.

Assignable loot: the person who puts it in the chest can assign it to a specific person (like normal loot chests) OR assign it to the guild at large. pro: can send stuff en masse to others, and make sure they get it, con: can you say DRAMA (but I want that waaaaaah!)

Falco_Easts
12-15-2011, 05:24 PM
Yes it was, and will apologize for the remark.
Accpeted, sorry if I sounded harsh in the earlier post.


Umm, my kids do have bank accounts, and the bank does give me the control of limiting withdrawals.
That would be the officer only chest. It limits who can take out what.


yes I have had cards stolen in the past, and Visa forgave the stolen charges. I have also had Visa call me and ask if a particular purchase is legitimate. That is a stolen card, not the owner of the card wracking up the charges. Big difference.

I see your concerns but really see no need to change it.

You either have an open door policy for recruiting or an open chest policy for your guild. If you have both, you are asking for trouble.

azrael4h
12-15-2011, 07:39 PM
Sorry, but when you recruit, you run this risk. When something is placed in the guild chest, it is there for the entire guild to take advantage of (officers only if the special access chest). This means by blind-recruiting random people, you run a high risk of getting someone who will take advantage of you in that manner. I've seen people on this forum state that they do just that when sent a guild invite... and Lord help you if you mistakenly promote them to officer.

I only recruit from people I've run with multiple times in pugs. Yes this means I have an abysmal growth rate in my guild; on the other hand, I see more an issue with more stuff going into the guild chest than leaves. One of the crafters usually clear it out regularly, but within a day it's usually full again.

A limit will only affect cleaning efforts when it gets full, and those who toss essences into the chest for the crafters.

CheeseMilk
12-15-2011, 08:14 PM
I think that the addition of more in-guild rankings, and varying levels of permission that could go along with them could solve this problem, as well as several others (ie replacing the store-bought airship items with regular ones).

TimoteoDeLani
12-16-2011, 03:29 AM
You wanted to be in a mass guild for whatever reason. One of the consequences of that is that you can't control what happens with the guild chest.

I have a small family guild. We have no dramas about the guild chest, except it getting full and having to bring in one of our crafters to clean it out and decon everything (give us a ship-based decon station!!!).

PonyExpress
12-16-2011, 10:36 PM
If you are having problems with theft from regular members, try switching to the special access chest, which only allows officers to withdraw. A daily limit just means it will take longer for them to steal from you, it wouldn't actually prevent it.

I do not mind people taking things if that is what they need. I do have a problem with people taking 50 items then leaving the guild. Not all guilds are high enough level for a special access chest, my guild is one.



Limit except for officers: See blanket limit... except for oficers. pro trusted people get rewarded, con it doesn't help megaguilds at all (speaking of the ones that auto promote for mass recruiting)


When you are level 30-40ish, you really don't attract people who are much higher than level 6. All the experienced players only want +2 shrines. In my guild, I have a core group of 6 people, and we "officers" fill the chest, with the hope that it can help others. Mostly +3 gear, nothing that special, but at lvl 2-4 you would appreciate a good start. So the "officers" are not competing for gear with non officers. I routinely purchase things off of AH and give to new members, I am very generous; however, if someone is obviously taking advantage of a guild, there should be some controls set in place. My control right now, I got rid of the chest. How fair is that?



You wanted to be in a mass guild for whatever reason. One of the consequences of that is that you can't control what happens with the guild chest.

I have a small family guild. We have no dramas about the guild chest, except it getting full and having to bring in one of our crafters to clean it out and decon everything (give us a ship-based decon station!!!).

Why do I have to accept consequences of poor behavior?

Perhaps the leader have a preference menu and enter number of items removed from chest.

I know exactly the small guild dynamic you speak of. For about a year, I was the only officer, the leader and others stopped playing. We were a happy group, that stayed at level 30 for months. Now that the succession has taken place, I am trying to get to lvl 55 as fast as possible. I have done the math, and over 100 members seems to work pretty well. (or 15 members) I enjoy having more members, the lonely guild was not that much fun.