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View Full Version : Variety is better than you choosing for us.



Aelonwy
12-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Its not that these aren't nice devs. They are truly. But......


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But.... where are the quarterstaves? dwarven waraxes? greatswords? and why are we limited to only the bow being earth? the rapier air? the khopesh water? why not a bow of air? or water? why not a khopesh of earth? why not a greataxe of air?

Variety. People don't like to be pigeonholed. We don't like to be led. Limitations = aggravations. You had something working well with greensteel and the cannith alchemical weapons. Maybe we don't need daggers or hand axes or shortbows, but many would like an awesome epic dwarven axe, many would like a quarterstaff.

Calebro
12-04-2011, 01:07 PM
You're right. And while we're at it, why don't we have different choices for the Sharn rewards. What if I don't want acid on my scimitar? Or what if I wanted my Maelstrom to be Acid and Lawful?

Seriously. Those are the way they come because that's the way that they come. If you want something else, craft a GS or Alchy weapon.
Grinding a Challenge that is absolutely solo'able and has no timer should certainly NOT offer rewards that are customizable such as GS and Alchy.
Get over it.

Aelonwy
12-04-2011, 01:33 PM
I understand that tone is difficult to get across in text, i was not whining for the customization of greensteel or alchemical but asking for a greater variety of basic weapon choices. At least the calomel and mournlode weapons offer a variety of base weapon choices. The point I am trying to make is that opening up the base weapon makes it more applicable to a far greater variety of players.

Aerendil
12-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Maybe we don't need daggers or hand axes or shortbows, but many would like an awesome epic dwarven axe, many would like a quarterstaff.

And how many longswords, and maces, and picks, and morning stars do you think people will use if they open up the variety to us?
Melee will consist of rapier users, scimitar users, khopesh users, and handwrap users. With the occasional dwarven axe user thrown in.

80% of the weapon types ingame are already ignored due to them being statistically inferior. The only thing some of them have going for them is rare loot that makes them powerful (I'm looking at you, Midnight Greetings. How many kukri Assassins would there be otherwise, hmm?).

I get your point, though. I really do. I'd love more variety too.
But we need to consider what would happen if that came to be.

Jendrak
12-04-2011, 04:33 PM
.......80% of the weapon types ingame are already ignored due to them being statistically inferior. The only thing some of them have going for them is rare loot that makes them powerful (I'm looking at you, Midnight Greetings. How many kukri Assassins would there be otherwise, hmm?)....

You hit the nail right on the head here. The problem is that some people choose to play MMO's with a mouse in one hand and a calculator in the other. Now I'm not saying that this is bad or wrong, you play how you want to cause its your game. However, this means that there will always be a "best" and a "worst" item. That's just the way it is and I don't feel it's the developers job to try and "balance" this cause it just ain't gonna happen. Let's all just kinda take a vacation form fantasy island and realize the best we can hope for is enough of a spread in between the 2 extremes that there is a choice in there for everyone.

Should peopel be able to pick what elements they want on their bow? Hellz no, this ain't crafted GS/alchemical stuff, it's another Walmart epic to try and bridge the gap between those with the mathematician approved weapons and everyone else. As such, as long as all the weapon types (long sword, dagger, heavy mace, etc....) are covered that's about as good as it needs to be.

Aelonwy
12-04-2011, 07:42 PM
Let's all just kinda take a vacation form fantasy island and realize the best we can hope for is enough of a spread in between the 2 extremes that there is a choice in there for everyone.

Should peopel be able to pick what elements they want on their bow? Hellz no, this ain't crafted GS/alchemical stuff, it's another Walmart epic to try and bridge the gap between those with the mathematician approved weapons and everyone else. As such, as long as all the weapon types (long sword, dagger, heavy mace, etc....) are covered that's about as good as it needs to be.

Okay... well personally I don't feel that enough of the weapon types are being covered in these elemental variations. The Calomel and Mournlode weapons had choices... why not these? They come from the same pack afterall. Certain relatively decent weapons are under-represented in the game as a whole... dwarven waraxe is one of them. All I'm suggesting is that they give us a few more options per element. Okay you don't like the idea of being able to choose weapon type + element, because in your opinion thats giving too many options for as you call them "Walmart Epics", but what is wrong with having a few other base weapon choices per element? Not a single one of the Elemental weapons is in the Simple Weapon Proficiency, not one is a blunt weapon, like quarterstaff for instance. In the end, all I'm saying is this weapon selection is very limited and not going to appeal to as many people as it potentially could.

Jendrak
12-04-2011, 08:18 PM
Okay... well personally I don't feel that enough of the weapon types are being covered in these elemental variations. The Calomel and Mournlode weapons had choices... why not these? They come from the same pack afterall. Certain relatively decent weapons are under-represented in the game as a whole... dwarven waraxe is one of them. All I'm suggesting is that they give us a few more options per element. Okay you don't like the idea of being able to choose weapon type + element, because in your opinion thats giving too many options for as you call them "Walmart Epics", but what is wrong with having a few other base weapon choices per element? Not a single one of the Elemental weapons is in the Simple Weapon Proficiency, not one is a blunt weapon, like quarterstaff for instance. In the end, all I'm saying is this weapon selection is very limited and not going to appeal to as many people as it potentially could.

Ok apperantly I wasnt clear enough so let me try again.

I have no issue with their being more weapons types as there should be one for every single type of weapon; for exampl: Calomel +all simple weapons, Mournload +all martial weapons and , Calomel/Mournload + all exotic weapons (1/2 and 1/2). You shouldnt be able to make any effect + any weapon type as this would be too much imo. The idea is to give everyone the option of an Epic-ish weapon without makeing it the Walmart (hmmmm...lets go shopping for what i want) of epics.

Aelonwy
12-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Ah I see. No it sounded, from what you said previous, as though the status quo of the reward choices was fine with you. Re-iterating: And I never meant that we should have all the customization options of greensteel/alchemical only that we should have a larger base weapon selection. Offhand those are the only things that came to mind with a large variety of base weapons. I agree, one of every type of weapon would be far too much, but at least a few options per element would be if not ideal at least far more agreeable.

Potential. It all has so much potential, and then falls short just enough so you notice.

Calebro
12-04-2011, 09:34 PM
Ah I see. No it sounded, from what you said previous, as though the status quo of the reward choices was fine with you. Re-iterating: And I never meant that we should have all the customization options of greensteel/alchemical only that we should have a larger base weapon selection. Offhand those are the only things that came to mind with a large variety of base weapons. I agree, one of every type of weapon would be far too much, but at least a few options per element would be if not ideal at least far more agreeable.

Potential. It all has so much potential, and then falls short just enough so you notice.

That is not what the OP states in any way, shape or form.
The OP asks for customization of the weapons.


and why are we limited to only the bow being earth? the rapier air? the khopesh water? why not a bow of air? or water? why not a khopesh of earth? why not a greataxe of air?

If you want that kind of customization, craft GS or an Alchy.
If you want to grind a Challenge which can be solo'd and has no timer to grab a ghetto epic, you will take what they give you and like it.

oradafu
12-04-2011, 10:05 PM
That is not what the OP states in any way, shape or form.
The OP asks for customization of the weapons.



If you want that kind of customization, craft GS or an Alchy.
If you want to grind a Challenge which can be solo'd and has no timer to grab a ghetto epic, you will take what they give you and like it.

I too think there should be more variety in the weapons. When the Calomel weapons were first expanded, I mentioned that it was a good step since they gave every melee style a weapon that was useful, except for the Acrobat (which I still think there should be a Calomel quarterstaff).

I don't think anyone is asking for customized crafting, just more options for weapons. Adding weapons that almost never get added to the game to this pack won't hurt anything, such as a dwarven axe. Also making sure at least all melee style weapons are covered in the pack isn't asking too much.

You can say that the items are ghetto epic, but there should be alot more options in this pack for one reason: it's the most expensive pack in the game and costs the same as the Necro bundle. There should be at least three options of the Elemental <blank> of <whatever element> or whatever other other weapons available in the pack, just because of the obscene price of the pack.

Calebro
12-04-2011, 10:26 PM
You can say that the items are ghetto epic, but there should be alot more options in this pack for one reason: it's the most expensive pack in the game and costs the same as the Necro bundle. There should be at least three options of the Elemental <blank> of <whatever element> or whatever other other weapons available in the pack, just because of the obscene price of the pack.

The pack is priced the way that it is because it is available to any character, and you never out-level the content within.
Look at literally any other pack in existence. There are times when you are too low level to run that content. Or there are times when you are too high level to gain anything from running the content.
These things are not true of the Challenges. You can literally step into a challenge at any level of play, and you'll always have something productive to do. It doesn't matter if you're level 3 or level 19, you can gain XP and grind mats for gear.

So while I agree that the pack is a bit expensive, I also understand why it's that expensive.

badbob117
12-04-2011, 11:16 PM
Well i personally love axes so im happy. but my buddy loves bastard swords and we still only have one worthy bastard sword in the game that is only good on a very niche build. Same goes for dorf axes. We really need more of these in game. It would be nice. This pack was a perfect opertunity to add soem more cool weps for not so popular builds. One reason these builds are not so popular is the lack of these weps. If we had other great weapons then we would see more neat builds. More options equals more viable fun builds to make and that is a great thing.. Not everyone is a min/max khopesh/axe enthusiast. Some enjoy flavor. And power to em if that is what makes em happy!

They should have added some Q-staffs and BS and dwarf axes etc etc . The challenges should have at least one of every weapon. It would not hurt the sales aspect of the pack! It is not exactly a popular pack. The devs know this and that's why the changes were made and they added a few popular weps to the list for next patch. But they still forgot some.

The first thing my guild leader asked me when i told him new pack hit lamannia with a bunch of new weps was " Does it have a bastard sword?" You do not want to hear the next comments he said when i replied "no" !!!

Sure the pack can be run at multiple levels and has alright xp, Some would even say it is a nice change of pace from the regular grind but the devs forgot one important thing. Loot for all the different classes and builds. And we all know the loot is what really sells packs! Currently there is squat for divines. as well as other not so popular weapon enthusiasts. B-swords, shields, Q staffs, D-axe , throwers and other stuff. It is almost like even the devs think these weps are all sub par and are not even worth bothering with anymore! And that is a shame!

I Totally agree with the OP. More variety is always a great thing. You never know what your next weird build will be. DDO prides itself on the fact we have so many options. It is not right only adding the most popular weps To the new challenges and forgetting the rest.

Totally signed onto adding a bigger assortment of weapons.

Riggs
12-05-2011, 12:38 AM
+1

Well more than +1 really.

Aelonwy
12-05-2011, 10:27 AM
If you want that kind of customization, craft GS or an Alchy.
If you want to grind a Challenge which can be solo'd and has no timer to grab a ghetto epic, you will take what they give you and like it.

So its been made abundantly clear that I did not explain myself well enough in the first post, i think I clarified my suggestion with subsequent posts and discussed politely with another poster and came to an understanding why having such options as part of my original post were perhaps asking too much. But I still feel more options of base weapon choice would be more appealing to myself and other players. There is no call for ...well its not exactly hostility, but it sure doesn't sound like courtesy.

Kinerd
12-05-2011, 04:56 PM
You're right. And while we're at it, why don't we have different choices for the Sharn rewards. What if I don't want acid on my scimitar? Or what if I wanted my Maelstrom to be Acid and Lawful?

Seriously. Those are the way they come because that's the way that they come. If you want something else, craft a GS or Alchy weapon.
Grinding a Challenge that is absolutely solo'able and has no timer should certainly NOT offer rewards that are customizable such as GS and Alchy.
Get over it.You have a lot of mis-placed aggression going on in this thread. As a fellow member of the community, I don't appreciate it.

The OP makes a reasonable suggestion. People like GS loot. People don't really like Sharn loot. Lots of people buy the Vale of Twilight. Not as many buy the Sharn Syndicate. If Turbine wants people to buy the Challenges pack, therefore, the loot more closely resembling GS loot would contribute to that.

Calebro
12-05-2011, 05:02 PM
You have a lot of mis-placed aggression going on in this thread. As a fellow member of the community, I don't appreciate it.

The OP makes a reasonable suggestion. People like GS loot. People don't really like Sharn loot. Lots of people buy the Vale of Twilight. Not as many buy the Sharn Syndicate. If Turbine wants people to buy the Challenges pack, therefore, the loot more closely resembling GS loot would contribute to that.

I don't have any misplaced aggression. I'm not even being aggressive yet.
These new weapons are of comparable power to GS and Epics, and have NONE of the safety measures (ie: timers, etc) required to get them. They are EXTREMELY powerful for the amount of effort it takes to get them.
Granting more customization would BREAK them completely. They're already on the edge of being brokenly powerful for the amount of effort it takes to get them. Offering more choices and more customization would send them over the line into completely broken territory.

You could drop a fresh level 20 into the challenges and start grinding, and at the end of the day you'd have a weapon.
Name one other crafting mechanism that exists in every day play (ie: not seasonal or limited time) where you can craft a weapon of such power in a single day.
You can't, because no other crafting exists that would yield such results.
Heck, you should be happy that you have a khopesh, rapier, GA, etc. Considering the power level versus the ease of acquiring them, they should have made them a longsword, shortsword, greatclub and a shortbow.
Be happy that they offered you some of the best weapon types in the game, and stop crying for more choices/options.

Kinerd
12-05-2011, 06:03 PM
If you don't see how characterizing the request as "crying" and demanding people "be happy" with what they have is unnecessarily aggressive, there's nothing more to say.

Calebro
12-05-2011, 06:28 PM
If you don't see how characterizing the request as "crying" and demanding people "be happy" with what they have is unnecessarily aggressive, there's nothing more to say.

And if you can't see why offering more choices and options would break the weapons completely, then I have nothing more to say.

hit_fido
12-05-2011, 09:13 PM
And if you can't see why offering more choices and options would break the weapons completely, then I have nothing more to say.

They give a khopesh with freezing ice, imp. paralyzing, icy burst, crushing wave, and probably some other feature that was supposed to show up instead of the second crushing wave. Oh, and double base damage alongside the standard 19-20 x3 crit power that makes every min/max lusting for khopesh anyway.

But if they let me make a freakin dwarven axe with same effects using its standard 20 x3 crit power, this would "break the weapons completely"?

No.

Calebro
12-05-2011, 10:47 PM
They give a khopesh with freezing ice, imp. paralyzing, icy burst, crushing wave, and probably some other feature that was supposed to show up instead of the second crushing wave. Oh, and double base damage alongside the standard 19-20 x3 crit power that makes every min/max lusting for khopesh anyway.

But if they let me make a freakin dwarven axe with same effects using its standard 20 x3 crit power, this would "break the weapons completely"?

No.

You're right. Just because they made the most powerful weapon already means that we should have free reign over which weapons are available and which effects we should have on them.
No.
The weapons are already too powerful for the effort required in attaining them. Adding more options does NOT solve the problem, it compounds it.

hit_fido
12-06-2011, 07:14 AM
The weapons are already too powerful for the effort required in attaining them. Adding more options does NOT solve the problem, it compounds it.

If the weapons are "too powerful" then argue for them to be removed (or not added, as it were). If they are added don't then tell us that letting someone choose a quarterstaff or bastard sword with the exact same properties as the khopesh or rapier is going to compound the problem without some argument better than they "are the way they come because that's the way that they come". You could just argue that you'd rather see Turbine spend time on something else rather than this but claiming it's problematic for the same set of properties to appear on a player's choice weapon base instead of only on a khopesh or a rapier is ridiculous.