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~sumptingwong
11-28-2011, 03:41 PM
It appears that the combining of many servers have created confusion on how to run this quest. Since I usually try to lead risky raids and usually epics when capped on my Tr'd Favored Soul "schnellcast," I am taking to initiative to explain this quest. I'll be listing what you need, what is recommended, and how to run it once you are in.

What you Need: This quest VERY HIGHLY recommends, and what I like to say "Needs," are as fallowing.

~2 Healers: One to heal the tank and hounds once they are charmed, and one to heal the actual party.

~1 Chewtoy: You need one person bearing a solid fog (or could kill) clickie, or even some solid fog throwing potions from the CC event.

The Recommendations: Although there are few needs there are many recommendations. They are as fallowing

~A Bard: After the hounds have been charmed bards can use their bard buffs on the dogs increasing their dps. This helps get the large dog down to "the point of striking" before the beholders start spawning, which is a major pain.

~The Tank has over 400hp: That way the tank's healer won't need "quicken spell" on sp he saves himself some sp for other things. Also then the healer can mostly use heal scrolls to save himself sp as well.

~Once the dogs are charmed: As soon as the dogs are charmed haste them and then start buffing them, it is best for them to have Acid Resist, Displace, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance (Which can be casted by a Mass Scroll to effect all at once, as well as Bull's Strength), and Bard buffs if possible.

~*TIP* If possible have the tank wear thorn guard, it is the only thing that can hurt the Large dog, sure it only does 1d8 damage, but anything helps.

How to run this quest: After you step into this quest DO NOT MOVE, rather safe then sorry and a to tick off 11 other people and have you squelched. Have rangers, paladins, and casters pass out acid, fire, and sonic resistance to everyone. Then pass out other assorted buffs that people want/need. After everyone ready to start assign the roles... Tank/Hound Healer, Group healer, 3 stone runner, 4th stone runner, and the Tank).

~Tank: The person that uses solid fog clickie and runs the Large dog through it (as well as the little dogs if he doesn't have their agro on him. Just shield blocks until all the dogs are charmed and he doesn't have the agro anymore.

~Tank/Hound Healer: Heals the Tank until dogs start getting charmed, once dogs are getting charmed target one of them and turn on quick spell, start using mass heal on the targeted dog every time it is about 3/5 hp left.

~Dog buffer(s): Can tell certain people to run to center after they finish clearing the last of the mindflayers that drop the control stones to run to the center and throw some buffs on the dogs. (GH and Rage do not work on the dogs)

~3 Stone Runner: Person that with the group run clockwise and every time a mindflayer gets killed he picks up the stone that drops from it. Once he has three stones he runs to the center and starts charming the three dogs that the tank has agro of (the three small dogs, not the large one), or he can trade the three stones to the dog/tank healer if the tank/dog healer wants them.

~4th Stone Runner: The person that picks up the stone of the 4th mindflayer THAT SPAWNS. After he acquires it he passes the stone to the tank/dog healer and runs east with everyone else (that is not the tank or tank/hound healer).

~Group healer: Healer that stays with the large group and heals the group when needed.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF WHAT TO DO:

1) Assign Jobs while party is buffing

2) Tank runs up once party is fully buffed and uses solid fog clickie to grab agro of large dog, tank/dog healer heals him.

3) The Party runs Clockwise around the square's perimeter killing mindflayers while the 3 stone runner picks up the stones that drop from them. Once he has 3 he goes to center and charms dogs (once he starts to charm them the healer turns on quicken spell and starts throwing mass heals), in the mean time the group though keeps running clockwise.

4) Once the 4th mindflayer is dead the 4th stone runner picks it up and passes it to the healer that is healing the hounds.

5) Now after the 4th stone is achieved, everyone that is not the tank or tank/hound healer goes East and waits for reavers to spawn out of the portal, and kill them once they spawn.

6) Once a text appears that the dog is showing signs of weaknesses move a little bit towards the middle because beholders will be spawning shortly.

7) Once a 2nd text appears saying that the large dog is able to be hurt, run to the center and kill her

8) Now congratulate each other and give all the raid loot to Schnellcast if he is in the group ;)

I hope people have taken the time to read this guide on the server so we will be able to complete this quest and get the raid loot we need so we can do the tougher quests harder, even though Player Skill>Loot, loot always helps though. Have a Great day everyone!

Meat-Head
11-28-2011, 03:58 PM
There are some other ways that work, but this is still a good guide. +1 for sure.

Recommendation: Evasion type with decent HPs. Word on the street is that bees are a reflex save.

~sumptingwong
11-28-2011, 04:39 PM
Lastly... NEVER KILL THE SMALL DOGS!

Cogdoc
11-29-2011, 07:30 AM
Yo Schnell! When do you plan to set up this raid in a time I can also join?...:) I like Hound a lot, and on Cogdoc, I can finally stop worrying about my DC when fighting the mindflayers and beholders.

Cogdoc

Cogdoc
11-29-2011, 07:42 AM
Also what we have done on hound with the hunting party is that we kept running around to be sure to pick all kind of slack + small beholders up before they wander into the center and dispell everything and its grandma.

What you are suggesting is a more static approach of the hunting group after the 4th stone.

Cogdoc

Infant
11-29-2011, 08:29 AM
Kinda noobish question:

If I understand the raid correct, the main and most important goal is to get as much DPS on big dog ASAP. Wouldn't it be more reasonable then to charm and buff 1st puppy ASAP. The person to pick up the first stone to go and charm as soon as the first stone is picked up? The same with the 2nd stone? Then recharm after 2 puppies uncharm.

The few successfull elite runs I joined, we did the 2-2 method. Also, we collapsed after picking up the 4th stone and guarded the corridors with assigned teams.

Infant

arminius
11-29-2011, 09:02 AM
What item has "thorn guard?" I didn't know that was even in DDO, for a minute I thought you were using a Diablo term by mistake.

gloopygloop
11-29-2011, 09:07 AM
Kinda noobish question:

If I understand the raid correct, the main and most important goal is to get as much DPS on big dog ASAP. Wouldn't it be more reasonable then to charm and buff 1st puppy ASAP. The person to pick up the first stone to go and charm as soon as the first stone is picked up? The same with the 2nd stone? Then recharm after 2 puppies uncharm.

The few successfull elite runs I joined, we did the 2-2 method. Also, we collapsed after picking up the 4th stone and guarded the corridors with assigned teams.

Infant

The first puppy could end up turning on one of the other puppies.

The main and most important goal in HoX is really to do as much DPS to the mama as possible without endangering your source of damage. There's plenty of time before the beholders come out, so getting that first puppy charmed ASAP isn't all that important compared to the need for keeping all of the puppies alive and on-task.

gloopygloop
11-29-2011, 09:09 AM
What item has "thorn guard?" I didn't know that was even in DDO, for a minute I thought you were using a Diablo term by mistake.

Bramblecasters or any Cannith crafted gear that has Thorn Guard added to it.

arminius
11-29-2011, 09:24 AM
Bramblecasters or any Cannith crafted gear that has Thorn Guard added to it.

Ah, that explains it. I've barely run the Queen and even when I do have been only interested in any item with "Torc" in the name. I've got Sandstorm Glasses on somebody, as a poor man's Tharnes, but I think that is it. Thanks!

~sumptingwong
11-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Yo Schnell! When do you plan to set up this raid in a time I can also join?...:) I like Hound a lot, and on Cogdoc, I can finally stop worrying about my DC when fighting the mindflayers and beholders.

Cogdoc

We tried last night, but we failed. I shouldn't have tanked and instead heal a tank or the dogs. The dogs died to fast because one of my guildies wasn't use to healing the dogs, but next time we do run it then we should probably succeed; next attempt probably Thursday or Friday night ~Schnell

benjihad
11-29-2011, 07:11 PM
~A Bard: After the hounds have been charmed bards can use their bard buffs on the dogs increasing their dps. This helps get the large dog down to "the point of striking" before the beholders start spawning, which is a major pain.


can other classes come in and buff the dogs at this time?


~The Tank has over 400hp: That way the tank's healer won't need "quicken spell" on sp he saves himself some sp for other things. Also then the healer can mostly use heal scrolls to save himself sp as well.


what happens if the tank dies? is that a definite fail?


~Once the dogs are charmed: As soon as the dogs are charmed haste them and then start buffing them, it is best for them to have Acid Resist, Displace, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance (Which can be casted by a Mass Scroll to effect all at once, as well as Bull's Strength), and Bard buffs if possible.


who hastes these dogs? as far as i understand only the healers and tank are in the middle with the dogs at this point. when do the players come in to the middle to buff the dogs? what if the big dog switches aggro when players move to the middle? (as he did the other night). another solid fog click?




~4th Stone Runner: The person that picks up the stone of the 4th mindflayer THAT SPAWNS. After he acquires it he passes the stone to the tank/dog healer and runs east with everyone else (that is not the tank or tank/hound healer).

why doesn't the 4th stone runner charm the dog himself?




3) The Party runs Clockwise around the square's perimeter killing mindflayers while the 3 stone runner picks up the stones that drop from them. Once he has 3 he goes to center and charms dogs (once he starts to charm them the healer turns on quicken spell and starts throwing mass heals), in the mean time the group though keeps running clockwise.


what class should the stone runner be? what if he gets killed? does augment summoning buff the dogs?



4) Once the 4th mindflayer is dead the 4th stone runner picks it up and passes it to the healer that is healing the hounds.


did the 3 stone runner return to the group after he charms the three dogs?
why doesn't the 4th stone runner charm the dog himself? does the healer have time to open up his inventory and get the stone while healing?



5) Now after the 4th stone is achieved, everyone that is not the tank or tank/hound healer goes East and waits for reavers to spawn out of the portal, and kill them once they spawn.


at this point is xyzzx going to be aggroed on the tank or the dogs? where does the tank go when he loses aggro?



6) Once a text appears that the dog is showing signs of weaknesses move a little bit towards the middle because beholders will be spawning shortly.


do the beholders spawn from all sides? how close to the middle? what if someone accidentally gets xyzzyx aggro? fail?

~sumptingwong
11-29-2011, 09:10 PM
can other classes come in and buff the dogs at this time?

Yes they can indeed, but preferred if all can buff them not all go, because then reavers will wander to the center most likely and could cause Chaos


what happens if the tank dies? is that a definite fail?

It is most likely a definite fail. Unless you assign a backup tank that stays in middle as well who can grab the agro of the large dog if the 1st tank dies.

who hastes these dogs? as far as i understand only the healers and tank are in the middle with the dogs at this point. when do the players come in to the middle to buff the dogs? what if the big dog switches aggro when players move to the middle? (as he did the other night). another solid fog click?

Once someone has used a solid fog clickie on the large dog the agro will stay with them, unless others purposely are trying to draw agro. Usually after all the dogs are charmed the people that buffs the dogs will start buffing them, which includes haste. All players should enter the middle once a text appears that says something along the lines of "Now is the time to strike."

why doesn't the 4th stone runner charm the dog himself?

He could indeed, but then the party killing reavers would loose and extra body to dps or crowd control, or just grab agro; so the reavers do not enter the middle.

what class should the stone runner be? what if he gets killed? does augment summoning buff the dogs?

It does not matter at all what the stone runner's class is, preferably someone with the most common sense that won't die grabbing the stones. If he does die then he'll type something about it; probably the 4th stone runner will get the three first stones, charm the dogs (or trade them to the healer) and go for the 4th stone to bring it to the healer. And it is debatable if augment summoning effects the dogs, I would think not.

did the 3 stone runner return to the group after he charms the three dogs?
Does the healer have time to open up his inventory and get the stone while healing?

Yes he does, and if the healer is a good one then he does (I have done it many times, and I am by far not one of the best ddo players out there). The 3 stone runner could charm the dogs himself if the healer can not charm the dogs safely on his own.

at this point is xyzzx going to be aggroed on the tank or the dogs? where does the tank go when he loses aggro?

The dogs. The tank stays in the middle incase all the dogs die so he can throw up another solid fog and grab agro. And the tank will not loose agro, and if he does it usually results in a wipe.

1) do the beholders spawn from all sides? 2) how close to the middle? 3) what if someone accidentally gets xyzzyx aggro? fail?

1) They do. 2) Not very close but they travel to the middle. 3) The group will probably wipe

Responses are in Red

Cogdoc
11-30-2011, 05:59 AM
I love the discussion going on here, more people know this raid means more succesful groups on the server. And keep the questions coming. This raid is actually not that stressing and fun as soon as you did a few completions and know what you are doing.

As there were some questions about who should pick the stones, I want point out that usually the one who picks up the stones, are not the first line combatant to fight off the mobs. The group of hunters fight down the mindflayers, and then the stone duty player who might have stayed in the back until then picks up the stones. Its not adviseable for the stone delivery guy to get any aggro at all.

Also one more piece of advice about how we did it: Do not bring the beholders into the middle. Even if you have aggroed one, and cannot deal with it. Even if you need a heal. They dispell the charm and buffs from the dogs, and that can easily mean raid wipe. Just die in a distant corner if you really cannot shake the mobs nor can you trail them to the hunting party. And be sure to report something like this into party chat: "small beholder inc from NW corner" so that others can hunt it down.

Cogdoc

Beer_Dude
12-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Some of you tactics were spot on but a few need to be refined. I've ran this quest since the day it came out and have well over 1000 completions and have led most of them (90%). Those that know me on Khyber will back this statement. So when I give you a few ways to refine your tactics please don't take them as an insult but just a way to refine your tactics.

First and foremost. Don't use the hunting party method use the collapse method. If you don't know what the collapse method is it's simple. Once all four stones are gathered EVERYONE COLLAPSES TO THE MIDDLE! There is no need for anyone else to be on the outside at all. Once everyone is in the middle split the melees up evenly and have them guard a corridor from the inside out. If they're near the middle they won't be in line of site of the mobs and the mobs will stay on the outside and run circles out there. You will only have 3-5 mobs come into the middle. The melee in that corridor can announce when a mob comes to his corridor and others can come and assist if necessary. Elite it may be necassary depending on the toon and the gear it has. There is no reason to be on the outside after the stones are gathered it's a waste of resources.

The tank should move Xyzzy to the eastern corridor just in the corridor from the middle and keep her there until the pups are charmed. This is the longest corrider and offers a chance for beholders to be killed berfore they can break the charm on the pups. If they come in from any other corridor they will have to get to the middle and turn the corner to the east to have a line od sight to uncharm th the pups. Melees can sit in the corridor and tab for mobs. They may need to be a little closer to the outer edge to do so but they still won't be in the line of site of the mobs so they won't pull any agro and bring it into the middle. They will see when a beholder is in bound via tab targeting. At that time they can get closer to the outer edge get the beholder aggro and turn it's head away from the pups so they can't be uncharmed. The quest should be done before the beholders ever spawn if done correctly except on elite where they do spawn from time to time depending on what buffs and how fast the buffs got put down.

The healer should never follow the tank in right away. He should wait until the tank confirms he/she has established agro from a fog. If the tank doesn't have agro from the fog and the tank gets knocked down, agro will revert to the healer. The tank does die here and there but rarely does it equate to a wipe.

That is as long as there's both healers in the middle to get the tank back up. One healer will end up with agro get beed and die but the other can be in the fog raise the tank agro will turn to the tank and the other healer can be raised once he dies from the bees and you're good to go. There's no reason for the other healer to be on the outside with the stone gatherers. They will have the 4 stones before they will be in any real need of a heal. Once inside the melees shouldn't be healed by the healers either. They should focus on the pups. Melees can use pots there's plenty of time to pot up as I said only a few mobs ever come to the middle. Healers also are one of the worst ones to charm. They need to focus on heals and buffs for the pups (prayer works well but doesn't last long).

The best charmer is an artificer with augment summoning. The charm lasts longer and the pups do more damage when charmed by an artificer. The worst person to charm is the bard. The charm and song cooldown timers tend to overlap meaning less time with buffs on the pups meaning less DPS and DPS (damage per second) is the single most important thing in the quest.

On elite the 2 stone method works but the third dog needs to be turned to stone so it's not a bother. The three stone methos works too but once the charm breaks you will have to stone 2 pups and deal with just damage from one pup.

On normal and hard just have one person gather all 4 stones. There's plenty of time to charm the pups and have them bring down Xyzzy before the charms wear off. Elite is a tad bit different. get the charmer to get the 1st 3 stones and get to the middle asap and have a 4th person get the stone and get everyone else in the middle and guard corridors. If the charmer is an artificer pass the stone to him/her otherwise just make sure the 4th stone gatherer knows how to charm and is ready.

Also make sure healers tank and charmers have greater hero and not from a bard song. If not they will be feared and helpless possibly depending on there saves. For some reason the GH bard song doesn't ward off her fear so it has to be from a spell.

Cogdoc
12-03-2011, 02:54 AM
Looks to be sound advice here, thank you. Now I was wondering wether this all applies to an undergeared group with low levels as well, as that is what we will possibly end up doing Hound with.

What I fear is that I have seen how players who are unexperienced with the raid, and not having much gear can _not_ deal with a single beholder, and if just one gets into the middle, it might mean that we have to restart the whole raid, as weaker raid group also results in a more fragile raid.

But again if we can get competent people guarding the gates to the middle, I see this to be worth a try. I never run the collapse method as you have described, we always did the hunting party.

Cogdoc

Lalangamena
12-03-2011, 03:27 AM
Can we have a complete explanation on bees?

(tank+healer perspective)

thnx

Beer_Dude
12-03-2011, 05:57 AM
Looks to be sound advice here, thank you. Now I was wondering wether this all applies to an undergeared group with low levels as well, as that is what we will possibly end up doing Hound with.

What I fear is that I have seen how players who are unexperienced with the raid, and not having much gear can _not_ deal with a single beholder, and if just one gets into the middle, it might mean that we have to restart the whole raid, as weaker raid group also results in a more fragile raid.

But again if we can get competent people guarding the gates to the middle, I see this to be worth a try. I never run the collapse method as you have described, we always did the hunting party.

Cogdoc

Honestly gear and player skill really mean nothing. We were doing this when the cap was 16 and were running it with 13-16 level toons with 4 munite completions (on normal) with ease. The truth of the matter is it's the biggest piker quest in the game. A person runs into the middle with a fog clickie and fires it off. Makes a right into the eatsern corridor and fires off another clickie. The healers run in and heal him. While that's happening the rest of the crew go get 4 stones. Then you charm & buff the pups and sit there and wait/watch while the healers keep the pups alive. 3-5 mobs will run into the middle and that's about all there is to do but wait. Even the tank part is no big deal. I did it on my fleshy wizrogue with just over 400 hp this last week during drunken raid night. And I did it in his past life when he was gimp with under 300 hp.

BTW a great trick for the beholders. Their str. and dex are both at about 10. So weakening of enfeebling or maldriot of bone breaking weapons with good crit ranges bring them to zero in said stat and render them helpless VERY fast. It works for the ones in the sub the same way. If you can get behind them before they can fire off any level drains or FOD you can have them helpless and what we used to call auto critted before he can turn and face you. Once he's at that state you can just stand there and laugh as he does nothing to you because he's helpless.

Beer_Dude
12-03-2011, 06:25 AM
Can we have a complete explanation on bees?

(tank+healer perspective)

thnx

Bees a mainly a pain but nothing more. It just requires communication from both the tank and the healers. Tank lets healers know he's beed and they throw an extra heal here & there. The bees are like a DOT for Xyzzy to put on us. There's really nothing you can do to get rid of them but die or wait it out as you get healed until it goes away.

Except if your caster brings globe of invulnerability in which case you go stand in it until the timer runs out. If you're a healer and get it and there's no globe here's a few options. Healers can put death pack on and just die if they get beed and there's no globe to stand if they have no aura and burst. Your aura and a burst or two should keep you alive if you have it. If you do pop your aura to keep alive you still can't cast any spells while beed so it's best to go stand near the pups so you can heal them at the same time. Just make sure to stand to the side of her and not in front of her face where she can breath more on you. The same goes for the bard while singing to the pups or the cleric casting a prayer on the pups. Do it from the side not the front. IMO worse that the bees is being polinated. It's like being in a glitter dust cloud that follows you wherever you go.

There's a good chance the tank will be beed and it will last up to and beyond when we start charming the pups. The best option for the tank is to stand to the side and stay in range of the mass heals the pups are getting until the timer runs out. Then he/she can leave and help guard a corridor but just be prepared to start tanking and pop another fog if stuff goes bad. All my toons (17 of them) have 2 fog clickes that can fire off 5X each on their person at all times. Funny story Last night I just capped a toon that 's been on the shelf foe a while so I can TR him. I was looking at his gear to see what he needs for next life and he had 5 different fog clickies in his pack. :)

Also when it's time to attack it's best that melees attack from her tail so they don't get beed and they have less chance of getting knocked down.

Beer_Dude
12-03-2011, 06:40 AM
Have a caster put any one of the following fog, acid fog, cloudkil, etc. in each corridor BUT MAKE SURE IT STAYS IN THE CORRIDOR AND DOESN'T LEAK OUT INTO THE OUTER EDGE. As long as it stays in the corridor it won't pull agro but if a mob comes into the corridor it will hit the cloud and agro on the caster. Then it will go to attack the caster instead of the first pup it sees. A disco ball in the middle of the corridor helps the melees too if a straggler happens to come into the middle. Again just make sure it stays in the corridor.

krackythehoodedone
12-03-2011, 06:50 AM
Did you know that Evil damage actually hits Xyzzy before the puppies are charmed.

So if you are wearing Epic/Non Epic Demon Consort Bracers and possibly E Mari (Evil Guard) you will get her aggro straight away and not have to muck about with solid fog clickies. This is particularly good news for Barbs and Madstone boot wearing Tanks

You can see the damage hitting her, it's kinda cool. The damage is not enough to hurt the puppies badly btw

Also the Curse from the Bracers hits Xyzzy too. Still not sure if this actually is of any benefit to the party but it looks good.

On a lighter note three hints for succesful Puppy Runs (each of these scenarios have occured in this raid recently)

1, If you are the Tank pls remember to take off your Lightning Strike Guard. Otherwise you might end up wondering if those three little lumps of charcoal were anything mildly important.

2, If your a Pew Pew delighted with your lovely new Lightning Strike Bow you may wish to turn off IPS for this one because when you choose your target click Manyshoot and unleash a veritable Maelstrom those pitiful Canine cries you hear could have some significance on the success of the raid and your popularity.

3, If you are extremely proud of your new Epic Wolf Whistle it might be an idea to let the party know that the CR35 hound running around is actually on your side (ok ok that was me)

SirValentine
12-03-2011, 07:20 AM
~Once the dogs are charmed: As soon as the dogs are charmed haste them and then start buffing them, it is best for them to have Acid Resist, Displace, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance (Which can be casted by a Mass Scroll to effect all at once, as well as Bull's Strength), and Bard buffs if possible.


Haste and Bard songs, for sure. Bull's & Bear's if your charmer does not have Augment Summoning.

But aren't the pups already immune to acid, and doesn't Mama Dog have True Seeing? I think Acid Resist and Displacement are not needed.

gloopygloop
12-03-2011, 07:43 AM
One more quick thought on running a Hound.

It's really nice to have a Bard along for Bard song buffs.

It's really nice to have an Artificer with the Arti capstone to get longer charms and an Augment Summoning boost for the puppies.

But neither one of those two characters are necessary. If you've been waiting 45 minutes with two open party slots for 1 Bard and 1 Artificer-with-capstone that you haven't found yet, it might be better to just go in without them and see if you can complete the quest anyway.

If someone on that run has an epic Roderick's Wand, then they can charm the dogs with their temporary Augment Summoning feat. Also, Mass Bulls/Bears/Cats is still nice to cast even with Augment Summoning boosting the puppies already. More buffs = more good.

Beer_Dude
12-03-2011, 07:58 AM
Haste and Bard songs, for sure. Bull's & Bear's if your charmer does not have Augment Summoning.

But aren't the pups already immune to acid, and doesn't Mama Dog have True Seeing? I think Acid Resist and Displacement are not needed.

I meant to cover that and I forgot. Some people do displace in case a mob makes it into the middle and attack the pups and yes they're immune to acid. Really both are a waste of tiem a bless spell would be more efficient and help more but you haver to run up there to cast it so make sure you do it from the side.

Beer_Dude
12-03-2011, 07:59 AM
One more quick thought on running a Hound.

It's really nice to have a Bard along for Bard song buffs.

It's really nice to have an Artificer with the Arti capstone to get longer charms and an Augment Summoning boost for the puppies.

But neither one of those two characters are necessary. If you've been waiting 45 minutes with two open party slots for 1 Bard and 1 Artificer-with-capstone that you haven't found yet, it might be better to just go in without them and see if you can complete the quest anyway.

If someone on that run has an epic Roderick's Wand, then they can charm the dogs with their temporary Augment Summoning feat. Also, Mass Bulls/Bears/Cats is still nice to cast even with Augment Summoning boosting the puppies already. More buffs = more good.


Why wait around an eternity for a quest that finishes in 4 minutes on norm, 5 on hard and 6 on elite.

SirValentine
12-03-2011, 08:32 AM
Mass Bulls/Bears/Cats is still nice to cast even with Augment Summoning boosting the puppies already. More buffs = more good.

Are you sure? I thought they didn't stack. Can anyone confirm?

Cogdoc
12-05-2011, 04:25 AM
Just as an update we have run it twice during the weekend after the initial planning. First try went down pretty fast as lot of people were new to the raid, and prolly our explanations were also a bit on the weak side. Second try went flawlessly with the tried and true method of hunting party and basic tank/healing in the middle. We didnt get beholders before big momma was dps-ed down by the whole raid in the middle. One found its way in while we were looting though...:)

Thanks for all the advices though, really interesting read!

Cogdoc

Beer_Dude
12-22-2011, 05:40 PM
Just as an update we have run it twice during the weekend after the initial planning. First try went down pretty fast as lot of people were new to the raid, and prolly our explanations were also a bit on the weak side. Second try went flawlessly with the tried and true method of hunting party and basic tank/healing in the middle. We didnt get beholders before big momma was dps-ed down by the whole raid in the middle. One found its way in while we were looting though...:)

Thanks for all the advices though, really interesting read!

Cogdoc

The tried and true method isn't the hunting party method it's the collapse method and has been since the quest first came out. The hunting party method wasn't even a thought until a couple of years later, and us vets were bored of sitting in the middle and opted to go out and kill some stuff to pass the time away. That's how the hunting party method evolved. The problem is the newbies saw/see this and think that's the best way to do it. It isn't by a long shot. There's way more chances for a failure using hunting party compared to using collapse.

Your statement above proves exactly that. Moma was dead before the beholders even spawned. There's only 3 mobs that come to the middle if everyone is in the middle so facing 3 mobs as opposed to dozens of mobs is way less of a risk, and moma should be dead before the beholders spawn even on hard.