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Sidewaysgts86
11-20-2011, 06:18 PM
I've always felt that rogues should have a better, ie, FASTER, way of alerting their team to the presence of a trap. I know its easy to say "you should just know where they are!", but what about people who like the whole "dungeon exploration" of DnD? The current methods either require the rogue to have a mic, or to have the whole team basically sit back and hope the rogue is able to respond quickly enough through typing that "Hey, theres a trap here!".

Nothing fancy for an alert, maybe a spider-man'esque Spidey-sense wiggle above the head, or a Metal-Gear solid style ! when a trap is found. Could even accompany it with a message of sorts like we have with the hirelings when they discover a hidden door (Granted I could imagine some players finding this message annoying- so a way to turn off this alert so we dont all have unwanted windows popping up on our screens might be nice).

Apologies if this has been discussed before, did a quick search but didnt find anything. Would love everyones opinions and thoughts.

voodoogroves
11-20-2011, 06:23 PM
It'd be kinda cool if the "your hireling notices ... " kind of message was party-broadcast. Anyone spots something? Notification happens. We don't all play with voice chat, etc.

Talias006
11-20-2011, 06:49 PM
I think it'd be okay for the current danger notification that many see to be displayed as kind of an automatic emote for rogue/artificers to pop up over their heads when they spot something dangerously out of whack with the rest of the environs.

As long as it's something that can be either toggled on the character, or in the gameplay section of the UI.

Probably better on the UI, on second thought.

gloopygloop
11-20-2011, 07:53 PM
I think it'd be okay for the current danger notification that many see to be displayed as kind of an automatic emote for rogue/artificers to pop up over their heads when they spot something dangerously out of whack with the rest of the environs.

As long as it's something that can be either toggled on the character, or in the gameplay section of the UI.

Probably better on the UI, on second thought.

I'd like that.

I have (finally) learned to just not walk in front of the Rogue/Artificer in quests that have a lot of semi-randomly placed traps, but a party-wide spot notification like you get from hirelings would be nice.

Targonis
11-20-2011, 08:01 PM
Of course, if people would stop rushing in and let the rogue set the pace for the party, that would solve the problems as well.

Talon_Moonshadow
11-20-2011, 08:48 PM
Of course, if people would stop rushing in and let the rogue set the pace for the party, that would solve the problems as well.

You seem to be implying that there is a problem with rushing people running into traps...
while I, on the other hand, think it is a lot of fun to watch them do it. :p







But I do think the Danger Sense sign should appear above a person's head for all to see. (although it is not likely anyone will notice...lol)

Jendrak
11-20-2011, 09:04 PM
Of course, if people would stop rushing in and let the rogue set the pace for the party, that would solve the problems as well.

^This^

As it is people doent seem to understand that when the rogue or arit says "hey, trap" or just "trap'' for that matter that they should probably hold up a second or prepair to eat fireballs, sit on spikes, or some other way of earning a DDO Darwin Award.

Falco_Easts
11-20-2011, 09:16 PM
Of course, if people would stop rushing in and let the rogue set the pace for the party, that would solve the problems as well.

The hard part is then the rogue gets inital visual agro as the mobs spot him first meaning no sneak attack straight away.

Talias006
11-20-2011, 09:24 PM
^This^

As it is people doent seem to understand that when the rogue or arit says "hey, trap" or just "trap'' for that matter that they should probably hold up a second or prepair to eat fireballs, sit on spikes, or some other way of earning a DDO Darwin Award.

DDO Darwin Award... nice.

It's typical for a sitting group of players to disregard the rogue up until they get hit with the first trap, after that they tend to allow the rogue to scout ahead to keep watch for trouble.

Not having that static group dynamic, it's difficult for many to understand that the rogue (and now artificer) usually want more people to stay alive so they can keep the rogue staying alive longer.

Like any scoundrel worth their weight, most rogues do the job well so they can keep reaping the rewards of team play, aka the loot.
Plus it helps not having to do all the work... :rolleyes: :D

WruntJunior
11-20-2011, 09:25 PM
I'd be okay with this as long as it's not something annoying...Would help groups that want to go slower know when to stop, and hopefully not annoy the groups that don't really care about where the traps are (as long as the trapper disables them at some point for the bonus >_>).

Meetch1972
11-20-2011, 10:53 PM
Remember it's not always the rogue that does the spotting. It's possible a non-trapper will have the required skill, so if anyone makes the spot check, those nearby should notice.

A good variation might be anyone who is within a certain radius with line of sight on anyone who spots a trap will also get the message. The range would be something like that of the pally aura. No need for any new symbols.

Kayla93
11-20-2011, 11:55 PM
You seem to be implying that there is a problem with rushing people running into traps...
while I, on the other hand, think it is a lot of fun to watch them do it. :p

This ;) +1.
I always wait for all barbarians to "run" through traps on elite and end like a little cute stone that i can put into backpack. Even though i told/wrote trap in voice chat/chat.

BTW i think rogues SEARCH should work a little faster.

varusso
11-21-2011, 01:07 AM
There is already a VERY blatant "tell" when a rogue spots a trap/hidden door, etc.

When you see the rogue STOP and start slowly panning back and forth in a swaying motion, its NOT because he is looking for his contact lens. Its because he has spotted something dangerous/mysterious and is now actively searching for it. When he finds it, there is another graphic and audio cue as to where it is, which everyone can see.

If people wont even pay enough attention to see all that, I really dont see how anyone thinks they are going to pay enough attention to any other cues that might be added. Anyone who WANTS the rogue to keep them from getting blown up in a trap will pay attention to what the rogue is doing, even in a pitched battle.

I warn a group ONE TIME at the beginning of any quest that if they see me stop and search, its best to stay behind me. If they decide they want to get ahead of me, then they do so at their own risk. I even give the courtesy of a verbal "trap" over voice chat. If they cant/wont use voice chat, then they had best pay attention to their screen or deal with the trap themselves. And I know where 95% of the non-random(ish)-moving traps are even without spot, so its a safe bet that you are safe behind me :D

If folks want to run ahead of me and they can handle the traps, *shrug* doesnt bother me one bit. I am perfectly content to follow behind and get the trap bonus for the group -- so long as you dont cost me the flawless bonus in the process :rolleyes:

gloopygloop
11-21-2011, 01:48 AM
If people wont even pay enough attention to see all that, I really dont see how anyone thinks they are going to pay enough attention to any other cues that might be added.

I usually pay attention if I hear a *ding* sound.

Eltronin
11-21-2011, 05:10 AM
There is already a VERY blatant "tell" when a rogue spots a trap/hidden door, etc.

When you see the rogue STOP and start slowly panning back and forth in a swaying motion, its NOT because he is looking for his contact lens. Its because he has spotted something dangerous/mysterious and is now actively searching for it. When he finds it, there is another graphic and audio cue as to where it is, which everyone can see.

:

Another fast way is simple: Hit enter, t, enter. If your not using chat/don't have a mic, the rogue can type at the start of the quest "If you see me type the letter T stop. I have detected a trap and will search for it."

Pank
11-21-2011, 05:28 AM
I have always thought that when a rogue or trappers starts searching (because you see the search animation unless you have gone past them), it means that there IS actually something to search for, and that could be *cough* a trap *cough* for instance. If find then wise to stop for a sceond and wait till they finish searching.
Short story: you don´t even need to read in chat or have alerts or anything... if rogue searches you wait.

WruntJunior
11-21-2011, 06:11 AM
I have always thought that when a rogue or trappers starts searching (because you see the search animation unless you have gone past them), it means that there IS actually something to search for, and that could be *cough* a trap *cough* for instance. If find then wise to stop for a sceond and wait till they finish searching.
Short story: you don´t even need to read in chat or have alerts or anything... if rogue searches you wait.

You mean if the rogue searches, you evade the trap and thank the rogue for the xp bonus? :P

Seriously, though, Pank has this on the dot. If you should be concerned about running through traps, you shouldn't be rushing so fast that you don't see the rogue start searching. Basically, if you can't survive running through the traps, don't run ahead of the rogue if you don't know where all the traps are. If you can survive running through the traps and heal yourself up from it....you don't need my advice on what to do here.

Talon_Moonshadow
11-21-2011, 06:32 AM
There is already a VERY blatant "tell" when a rogue spots a trap/hidden door, etc.

When you see the rogue STOP and start slowly panning back and forth in a swaying motion, its NOT because he is looking for his contact lens. Its because he has spotted something dangerous/mysterious and is now actively searching for it. When he finds it, there is another graphic and audio cue as to where it is, which everyone can see.

If people wont even pay enough attention to see all that, I really dont see how anyone thinks they are going to pay enough attention to any other cues that might be added. Anyone who WANTS the rogue to keep them from getting blown up in a trap will pay attention to what the rogue is doing, even in a pitched battle.

I warn a group ONE TIME at the beginning of any quest that if they see me stop and search, its best to stay behind me. If they decide they want to get ahead of me, then they do so at their own risk. I even give the courtesy of a verbal "trap" over voice chat. If they cant/wont use voice chat, then they had best pay attention to their screen or deal with the trap themselves. And I know where 95% of the non-random(ish)-moving traps are even without spot, so its a safe bet that you are safe behind me :D

If folks want to run ahead of me and they can handle the traps, *shrug* doesnt bother me one bit. I am perfectly content to follow behind and get the trap bonus for the group -- so long as you dont cost me the flawless bonus in the process :rolleyes:

True.
But it would help me to not feel guilty for not saying anything, if my character had a visible auto-warning.

I'm really a "no spoilers" person, but having a high enough Spot and a danger sense aleet is not a spoiler.

I've run 90% of the quests hundreds of times...I usually know where the traps are even if my character does not. I choose not to say anything about it, unless I actually get the danger sense icon.... and even then I tend to be slow about saying anything.

so....sometimes I feel guilty when someone dies.....

sometimes. ;)

Talon_Moonshadow
11-21-2011, 06:34 AM
You mean if the rogue searches, you evade the trap and thank the rogue for the xp bonus? :P

Seriously, though, Pank has this on the dot. If you should be concerned about running through traps, you shouldn't be rushing so fast that you don't see the rogue start searching. Basically, if you can't survive running through the traps, don't run ahead of the rogue if you don't know where all the traps are. If you can survive running through the traps and heal yourself up from it....you don't need my advice on what to do here.

Not entirely fair...because my Rogue is purposly running behind you, so that I do not get agro. :cool:

Gorbadoc
11-21-2011, 08:08 AM
Not entirely fair...because my Rogue is purposly running behind you, so that I do not get agro. :cool:

A couple people have made this point. The key is noticing enemies before they notice you + stealth + having teammates pull the aggro from you when it doesn't work so well.

It's not a perfect solution, but the devs shouldn't make it too easy to protect the party from traps. :p

WruntJunior
11-21-2011, 08:43 AM
Not entirely fair...because my Rogue is purposly running behind you, so that I do not get agro. :cool:

That's why I take max ranks in diplo. >_>

Besides, a good rogue should be able to handle aggro outside of an epic or tough elite...and in those cases, EVERYONE should know where the traps are anyways.

JOTMON
11-21-2011, 09:00 AM
This is a request that has been brought up many times in the past.
It does need periodic refreshing though as it seems to come and go unnoticed or ignored by dev's.

I get a little icon pupup in the buff section of my screen when i sense a trap.
Put a trap icon over my head when i detect a trap, it takes me too long to type "trap", or even often trying to say something in party while people are chatting.
and by this time I am already into search mode.

jejeba86
11-21-2011, 09:10 AM
great idea

varusso
11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Another fast way is simple: Hit enter, t, enter. If your not using chat/don't have a mic, the rogue can type at the start of the quest "If you see me type the letter T stop. I have detected a trap and will search for it."

I actually have an /alias set up ";t" that posts 3 lines of brightly colored text and symbols with a close resemblance to a Broadway show sign in neon lights into the chat box. I found that, while the initial posting drew alot of OOOHs and AHHHs, and questions about how to do the pretty colors, the same thing remained true thereafter: Some people paid attention to what I was doing and waited, some ignored it and chugged right on through.


True.
But it would help me to not feel guilty for not saying anything, if my character had a visible auto-warning.

I'm really a "no spoilers" person, but having a high enough Spot and a danger sense aleet is not a spoiler.

I've run 90% of the quests hundreds of times...I usually know where the traps are even if my character does not. I choose not to say anything about it, unless I actually get the danger sense icon.... and even then I tend to be slow about saying anything.

so....sometimes I feel guilty when someone dies.....

sometimes. ;)

I feel zero guilt whatsoever :-P If someone needs to be concerned about the trap, then they need to pay attention. If you dont know where the traps are, or you are concerned about getting nuked by one, then just wait for the rogue. If you know where the traps are, and you can handle zerging them, go right ahead. I will catch up later. :D

My main point it...it would be nice to have something that pretty much slaps people in the face when you spot a trap, something that cannot be easily ignored or missed. But in reality, if you are bringing a rogue because you are worried about the traps and not just for the XP bonus, then you need to slow down and wait for the rogue, instead of zerging past him. All the warnings in the world from the rogue/game wont stop the idiot factor. Just ask healers :rolleyes:

I just dont think it would be worth the dev time, personally, to add something that is going to be ignored by the same people who already ignore the warning signs.

Talon_Moonshadow
11-21-2011, 11:27 AM
That's why I take max ranks in diplo. >_>

Besides, a good rogue should be able to handle aggro outside of an epic or tough elite...and in those cases, EVERYONE should know where the traps are anyways.

It's the SA damage that I am concerned with.

But there is also something to be said for not being next to the average PUGer.