PDA

View Full Version : Please add (text?) cues to Rainbow Puzzle



My2Cents
11-03-2011, 07:31 PM
I would like to renew my request for adding cues to the Rainbow Puzzle (Rainbow In The Dark.)

These cues can be any form, text or symbols. Whatever is relatively quick and easy.

Yes, I have heard all the counter arguments over and over, and I have discussed the "pattern" over and over, nonetheless that puzzle can cause hours of frustration. I noticed clues have been added to most of the other colored puzzles in DDO and I suggest something added to the Rainbow puzzle, especially since completion is required for flagging for the shroud and greensteel crafting. As I understand it, at one point that puzzle was optional? (Might have been a bug...)

Esserbe
11-03-2011, 07:38 PM
You're talking about the lever puzzle, yes? That one's not required to complete the quest.

If not... oh dear.

TiberiusofTyr
11-03-2011, 07:41 PM
I assume you mean for color-blind people? If so I can get behind that.

taurean430
11-03-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm color blind (mostly heh)... And can work that puzzle np.

Just keep working with it man. Some things in this game become much easier with repetition. I'm not sure where you are getting hitched up. Perhaps suggestions would help?

blkcat1028
11-03-2011, 08:05 PM
Yes please.

I am colour blind and that puzzle is an absolute nightmare for me. I KNOW the solution, but if I misstep once, I'm screwed.

I would just like to have a pop up tell the colour when I cursor over it.

Cheers!

arminius
11-03-2011, 08:23 PM
Definitely signed. There have been over the years a lot of improvements in the game for color blind people--the latest being the darker cooldown timers--and this idea should go through as well.

Faent
11-03-2011, 08:59 PM
I am colour blind and that puzzle is an absolute nightmare for me. I KNOW the solution, but if I misstep once, I'm screwed. I would just like to have a pop up tell the colour when I cursor over it. Cheers!

You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

sirgog
11-03-2011, 09:04 PM
You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

This. It will be a pain if you misstep though (with no way to tell which, if any, of the lights you stuffed up).

LordPiglet
11-03-2011, 09:04 PM
You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

Not that simple. If you f up, you might have to reset the whole puzzle, especially if you do it more then once. I posted else where, but I just won't do it because the "blue" is green. Frankly, it might be hard for some people to even know they f'd up depending on what colors they can see.

LordPiglet
11-03-2011, 09:06 PM
You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

Are you color blind?

blkcat1028
11-03-2011, 09:44 PM
You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

That's pretty much the technique I use. The problem lies in the fact that if I do make a mistake, I have no way of knowing until I complete the puzzle and nothing happens :)

Then I can't tell where the problem is, so I have to reset the whole thing. Add in a little lag and it can be muy frustrating.

LordPiglet
11-03-2011, 09:49 PM
That's pretty much the technique I use. The problem lies in the fact that if I do make a mistake, I have no way of knowing until I complete the puzzle and nothing happens :)

Then I can't tell where the problem is, so I have to reset the whole thing. Add in a little lag and it can be muy frustrating.

This

Last time I tried, I just let someone else do it after a couple tries, and then logged off in frustration after the completion.


Realistically the only reason I knew the old reavers puzzle had 6 colors is because I was told. The only reason I know the current one has 6 is because of the dots.

Frankly, if some wants to comment on the "ease" of this puzzle and isn't color blind, they can ****. We understand how to work it, the problem isn't working it, the problem comes when for various reasons (hirelings, other plays, mis steps) the puzzle gets borked. Really, color puzzle issues absolutely need to be fixed, and there's not an easy ways for a non-color blind individual to understand the situation.

I play ddo for fun. Color based puzzles =/= fun.

Dreamshifter
11-03-2011, 11:08 PM
It would be nice if the OP had indicated that it was to help with color blind people. I was mighty confused until one of the later posters brought it up.

That said? I see no reason not to change it. Maybe have dots light up on the buttons, so that you can count if you can't see colors.

Forzah
11-04-2011, 03:24 AM
What are the odds that there are six color blind people in a group?

biggin
11-04-2011, 03:32 AM
But what about those of us who can't read AND are color blind? Could we also get musical notes? Well you know what? I lost my hearing in 'Nam so that's no good either. Could you spawn an NPC that points to the puzzle and mimics exactly what I should do?

/not signed

There are only a few puzzles in the game, if you can't solo it (like any other quest) bring help.

Delt
11-04-2011, 03:37 AM
Funny...colour blind or not, this *puzzle* should never take more than a few minutes with a mistep. If you are spending "hours of frustration", there is a bigger problem than the ability to distinguish colours.

If you are colour blind, running it solo, running it for the first time and refuse to look up a faqs (how often are we figuring this is the case?), then ya...I guess it might be an issue.

As for the optional part, you used to be able to just shove the scepter through the barrier, so ya, sorta.

Ikuryo
11-04-2011, 05:48 AM
Ive watched people do the run over each and every button x times and it seems to take forever. The method i use is much faster and takes out the need to count. It will not help with the hireling/party member problem but it will make it easier for you.

Step 1: Put out all the lights.
Step 2: Run over the buttons going to from left to right, then right to left -1. The order of lights ends up like this: (assuming there are 7 buttons its been awhile)

1111111
1222222
1233333
1234444
1234555
1234566
1234567

When you start it you run on all of them from the left to the right. This puts them all at 1. Then you run on all of them from the right to left except the left most one. Then you turn around and run right again until you are off the puzzle. Turn around and run left but for the left 2 most ones and so on.

Once its set to all off I can do the puzzle in less then a minute. Assuming you don't have a pet or something in the way this will solve it fast and you don't need to count how many times you hit each button.

I would not have a problem with a key being on the wall though with numbers and lights on it, not sure how you would put numbers on the floor buttons though.

TPICKRELL
11-04-2011, 06:11 AM
/signed.

I hate this quest because of the lack of color text on the puzzle. It should have a text hover on the button that indicates its current color.

This is one of the few quests that I don't solo, because the puzzle is a pain. Yes, I know the step pattern to do the puzzle. But a small lag and I have to start all over or ask my wife to come look at the screen and tell me which one is wrong.

Aedra1
11-04-2011, 06:14 AM
What are the odds that there are six color blind people in a group?

Not the point.

A colorblind person may decide to try and solo this quest. OH wait!! I know someone who has and he had to ask me to look over his shoulder to make sure the colors didn't get messed up. Fortuantely, he had someone who could help him, not all are so lucky.

Truga
11-04-2011, 06:25 AM
Until this gets fixed (yeah right), here's an idea. Roleplay it.

If you get assigned to do the puzzle, run around it for a while (as randomly as possible) then go: "Sorry guys I can't discern red or green from yellow, but I'll keep trying if you want me to!" You can even put it into your bio!

If you go solo or everyone in your party is colour blind, you'll have to tough it out though...

Avidus
11-04-2011, 07:01 AM
I don't mind adding in something for those that are color blind, but can it not be floaty text.

Instead I would like to see the ability to target the individual lights and have the current color be displayed by name in the focus orb or examine window.

Or perhaps a toggle for floaty text each time the color changes?.

Would something like this work for everyone?

Hokiewa
11-04-2011, 07:05 AM
What are the odds that there are six color blind people in a group?

Heh. Your assuming its a group at all. When flagging on a new toon I generally solo this, so this theory wouldn't hold true.

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 07:29 AM
You should be able to tell when all the lights are off, right? If so, just turn all the lights off. Then hit the first one once, the second one twice, the third one three times, and so on... Not as a good of a fix, obviously, but it looks like a workaround that should prevent you from having to spend more than five minutes on it.

That pattern sounds good in principle, and I know there are people who use it to complete the puzzle, but I wonder if any of them are people who might lack the ability to visually verify they are doing it correctly. If you can't visually verify your progress, you could spend hours trying to do it right.

For some people, it is not always easy to see OFF, but it can be done, after a bit of careful stepping and looking. Once off, it's difficult for some people to follow those directions, as you cannot tell if you misstep or linger too long on any one spot or fail to change a spot by veering just a bit off the path or any other misstep. How can you tell you accurately stepped on it "once" and made one change and not two changes or no changes? Depending on the color abilities of the person and the specific colors required, this may or may not be easy for someone, depending on their type of colorblindness and what other eye conditions they may have that cause or complicate their colorblindness. Sometimes you cannot KNOW you messed up till you finish and the protective wall doesn't come down. You could be there for hourse, resetting to off and hoping to get the whole thing right on faith.

I appreciate all the responses, but I stand by my request for the change.

Superspeed_Hi5
11-04-2011, 07:34 AM
Or they could just stamp a warning on the door portal: "Warning: Color Blind People, turn around and bring a friend!"

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 07:38 AM
What amazes me is how many people argue about this: what can it hurt to add some cues?

I am not asking for anything "special", nor anything the DDO development team hasn't recognized as useful with other puzzles. This is a major puzzle in a quest that is required for flagging for a primary crafting venue in the game (greensteel.)

Asking for help sounds easy. Have you tried it? Are you in a supportive guild who responded to help? Have you tried to seek help for this with online friends and those in the LFM/LFG panel? How long did it take? What was the response?

As for your question about text, I have had both legally and totally blind friends, they rely on screen reading tools for text when necessary, and otherwise they rely on voice.

Have you had the unfortunate bad luck to be born with, or to have encountered physical or mental challenges in your life? If so, then I am delighted you have done such a good job of overcoming them. If you have not (yet), I suggest you might consider your own future and how you might feel at that time.

Actually, there is a fairly large disabled and retired community with a lot of time on their hands and the modest budget needed to support DDO. Many of them would and do spend a lot of time in online communities. I've always thought that would be a good source of support for relatively inexpensive MMOs like DDO, especially since I met several such people in "that other" MMO way back before I attained life wisdom and switched :)


But what about those of us who can't read AND are color blind? Could we also get musical notes? Well you know what? I lost my hearing in 'Nam so that's no good either. Could you spawn an NPC that points to the puzzle and mimics exactly what I should do?

/not signed

There are only a few puzzles in the game, if you can't solo it (like any other quest) bring help.

TPICKRELL
11-04-2011, 07:38 AM
I'm colorblind as well, and have already signed the request.

But the simplest way I know of to do this puzzle , is to reset all to off then use the following pattern:

The back button is number #1, the one next to it is #2 and so on.

With all buttons off, run up the stairs and jump down so that you land on #1. That presses #1 one time. Now run across all of the other buttons, so that they all have been pressed once.

Run back up the stairs and jump down to button #2 (dont touch button #1), now run across all the higher number buttons. this results in #1 being pressed once and everything else pressed twice.

Repeat the pattern by jumping down to button #3 and running across the higher numbered buttons... until there are no buttons left.

This results in all the buttons being pressed the correct number of times, and is less subject to counting mistakes or lag errors.

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 07:51 AM
With all buttons off, run up the stairs and jump down so that you land on #1. That presses #1 one time. Now run across all of the other buttons, so that they all have been pressed once.


The last time I tried the puzzle stepping on a button seemed to change the color multiple times. if walking onto a button changed it only once, and no change occurred until you stepped off, that would sure be helpful. I did not try "jumping down onto" a button. Maybe there is something else at play here where some conditions may change how the buttons respond? Character DEX, items, bug, something?

Either way, I don't see how cues could hurt. If people feel that text letter cues would give away the spirit of the puzzle, then fine, put 7 lights up on the wall or the stairs or the floor and light each one when that button is pressed to the proper color.

MrkGrismer
11-04-2011, 08:49 AM
I think probably the best way to have non-color cues would be to change the pad skin to kind of like a clock-face with the line that moves from like the 3 o'clock position to the 9 o'clock position so:

red : 3
orange : 2
yellow : 1
green : 12
blue : 11
indigo : 10
violet : 9

The pads would start with no line (off)

Maybe just a mark in like the 'outer circle'

Would be easier to illustrate than describe, but I hope I am getting my point across. It wouldn't be immediately obvious to most people but it would allow a color-blind (even monocrome) to tell what state each pad is in. It would also be less obvious than putting a run that changes on each one (R O Y G B I V).

stoerm
11-04-2011, 09:02 AM
I'm not colour blind but to my embarrassment don't know what the sequence of colours should be in a rainbow. I simply do the puzzle as described above, by increasing number of presses from the unlit state.

I guess it's a problem if you're colour blind, running it solo for the first time, and don't know of DDOWiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rainbow_in_the_Dark).

Shouldn't this thread be in the Suggestions and Ideas (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75) section rather than under Lammania?

Superspeed_Hi5
11-04-2011, 10:43 AM
First off I am sorry that your disability prevents you from completing the quest. However there are actually no clues as to how to beat the puzzle other than the title of the adventure. The first time I went in there solo I had no idea as to what needed to be done until I remembered my third grade science class and my good friend Roy G. Biv.

What you are requesting actually takes away from the game in that this floor puzzle is completely different from all the other floor puzzles. Part of the quest is figuring out what needs to be done. When I sat in and watched my friend try it who had never been in there before I sat and watched for a half hour laughing my ass off at him, until he asked how to do it and I just kept singing the chorus to the DIO song of the same name.

Once again I am sorry that you have a disability that makes it virtually impossible to solve this, but as I said before what you want makes it too easy especially for first timers.

/not signed

madmaxhunter
11-04-2011, 10:58 AM
The point of the puzzle is colors. I'd only be okay with a change if it doesn't ruin the whole point of the puzzle.

I've resigned myself to just looking at the white dots on many wheel puzzles since they were added. Especially in "The Pit". It's nearly impossible to tell what symbol is shown with the brightness of the dots. Though, on the other hand, it's really easy to find the placards now.

biggin
11-04-2011, 11:19 AM
My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 11:35 AM
What you are requesting actually takes away from the game in that this floor puzzle is completely different from all the other floor puzzles. Part of the quest is figuring out what needs to be done. When I sat in and watched my friend try it who had never been in there before I sat and watched for a half hour laughing my ass off at him, until he asked how to do it and I just kept singing the chorus to the DIO song of the same name./not signed

Your point is well taken. I remember fondly the rhyme from my grandmother about the colors of the rainbow and I understand the nature of the puzzle. If you feel that some sort of cue would take away from the spirit of the puzzle, then might I suggest that making this required for completion on a quest required for flagging for something as important as greensteel might be a poor design choice.

Aedra1
11-04-2011, 11:38 AM
Once again I am sorry that you have a disability that makes it virtually impossible to solve this, but as I said before what you want makes it too easy especially for first timers.

/not signed

I don't understand how it would make it "too easy" for anyone first timers or otherwise. After running the quest one time, I had figured it out quite easily. And I would say it is one of the easiest puzzles in the whole game. A visual cue much like the dots (numbers) in Reaver's Fate doesn't make it any easier; it just identifies the color for those who cannot differentiate one color from the other.

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 11:40 AM
My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

I agree with the idea that some things should be harder for certain people than for others. It seems to me that a "reasonable balance" be found, and that's often a subjective decision. I choose to advocate for the things I feel need that balance adjusted. I long ago realized I will probably not be seeing much of the subt and other epics and raids because my work schedule and family obligations limit my ability to group. I consider that just an unfortunete part of the way things are and I live with it. But I feel fairly strongly about this particular issue.

As for the curtains, then there is in fact a time you could do what you want in the Subt? Great, then why not provide certain aids for the colorblind for 1 hour each week?

I also believe in asking help when needed, but when you spend more than one occurrance of more than 3-4 hours asking for help and receiving no or no helpful replies and/or demeaning assistance, it can get old fast.

I also believe that rather than providing larger desks for plus sized kids, if they are plus-sized because of obesity it would be better to change their eating habits and help them lose weight. In the same vein, I would be very happy if there were either ways that color-blindness (and other impairments) could be easily resolved, and I would also find it helpful if software color aids could be used along with DDO. Apparenltly DDO isn't technically friendly for use with screen color-detector software, at least those I have seen.

To be honest, this isn't anywhere near my biggest issue with DDO, or with life, I am just really amazed how much people seem to be resisting this issue and it feels to me like some form of prejudice, and that's just something that's always been close to my hear. Otherwise I'd just be spending this time building my gimp Arti or go offline and eat too much.

I'm not one of those people who wants an easy button for everything life and I grow tired of everyone assuming that's the case but given the nature of these forums I'm not surprised. If you knew me you would know better.

Hokiewa
11-04-2011, 11:56 AM
People are generally negative when it comes to change. Assuming a simple change wouldn't take an obscene amount of developer time, I don't find any reason why this couldn't be changed.

It doesn't affect me in the least bit if a second cue was added. I don't think it affects anyone if it was added.

Delt
11-04-2011, 12:06 PM
If you accomodate every little request, it amounts to a big request. Beyond that, the nature of the quest is the colours of the rainbow -- if our fearless hero is colour blind, then you should be having trouble here...I doubt the monsters set up their security to be handicap-accessible.

This isn't Reavers Fate, where it's a largely arbitrary and random puzzle.

Beyond that, there is a large amount of software out there to assist people with identifying colours. Why ask the devs to do what you can do yourself?

dunklezhan
11-04-2011, 12:11 PM
This feature should be added. However, I think all the tweaks that have been done specifically for this issue should be 'invisible' unless the player hits the 'enable color blind accessibility' button under UI (which doesn't exist, but I'm saying it should). That way those people who don't like the fairly intrusive floaty text option don't have to see it.

It NEEDS to stay primarily colour based by default. The whole quest is about light and dark, and the last puzzle is the rainbow of the quest title. To make it, well, not a rainbow would be a bit odd to say the least.

An option to turn on colour blind accessibility options would enable to them to develop these sorts of things in their own layer that most folk would never have to see, so the design part of it doesn't have to please the majority of the player base (we've seen how well UI changes have gone down twice this year), it just needs to get past the minority of users with this sort of vision problem.

zeonardo
11-04-2011, 12:27 PM
Yes please.

I am colour blind and that puzzle is an absolute nightmare for me. I KNOW the solution, but if I misstep once, I'm screwed.

I would just like to have a pop up tell the colour when I cursor over it.

Cheers!

WARNING: SPOILER AHEAD
......




....




...




..




.






Looking from the stair to the boss door, considering 7 plates being 1 the leftmore:
1 = don't step
2 = 1 step
3 = 2 steps
4 = 3 steps
5 = 4 steps
6 = 5 steps
7 = 6 steps

If you misstep any pressure plate:
Step on all of them until all are unlit again. Don't need to see color to realize they are not glowing. Then do as followin:

1 = 1 step
2 = 2 steps
3 = 3 steps
4 = 4 steps
5 = 5 steps
6 = 6 steps
7 = 7 steps

8 = Kill boss
9 = Loot
10 = Greater Teleport
11 = End Reward
And so on... :D

Hope it helps.

LordPiglet
11-04-2011, 12:42 PM
My problem with it is this: some things should be harder for certain people than others. Take the Subt for instance. I have my computer in my game room and my living room has bay area windows. During the day it's very hard for me to see anything down there, yet I don't want to have street lamps added in. It would greatly benefit me and surely others, but would greatly detract from the enviornment.

If you need help with something, ask for help. This isn't public school, we don't have to make oversized desks for the plus sized kid.

Except I shouldn't have to ask for help. ****, maybe they should make a puzzle that you have to be color blind to be able to solve correctly. Then we can all laugh at you guys and say "then ask for help, etc, etc (insert your ******** as to why something that the devs have already been aware of, know is an issue and have made vast steps to improve should no longer be addressed)".

Actually an option for the color blind wouldn't be bad, could lead to some interesting communication with someone trying to call colors and another using dots on the reaver puzzle.

Color blindness is very common, using color based puzzles is poor design, especially if they aren't made to be color blind friendly. The devs have already acknowledges this and are working to improve it.

zeonardo
11-04-2011, 12:56 PM
FYI (if you think my help post above is somewhat offensive)

I tried to help not as a solution to the issue, but so you can complete your quest before/if they implement a fix.

If you know it's a color based puzzle and yet you attempt to solve it, it's more than overcoming a game challenge. It's overcoming a life challenge and it's something wonderful.

Not everything in real life is "designed" to color blinds or lefties or dexterous, and someone who's trying to help you to overcome it or make it easier for you is not an offender. If you rather doing it all alone as a personal challenge, then maybe fixing is not a good solution as it's "helping" in some way.

About the puzzle in rainbow: What if it had no color from start and you had to step on the plates a certain number of times in a certain order?

Think about it.

Hokiewa
11-04-2011, 01:07 PM
If you accomodate every little request, it amounts to a big request. Beyond that, the nature of the quest is the colours of the rainbow -- if our fearless hero is colour blind, then you should be having trouble here...I doubt the monsters set up their security to be handicap-accessible.



Under this theory, no "little" request would ever happen. Which is patently false.

Cyr
11-04-2011, 01:09 PM
Beyond that, the nature of the quest is the colours of the rainbow -- if our fearless hero is colour blind, then you should be having trouble here...I doubt the monsters set up their security to be handicap-accessible.


Crazy thing about roleplaying...you are not actually playing yourself.

As for monsters setting up this particular security setup...yeah I would have walked out of the roleplaying session where a DM thought that this made any sense what so ever as a security setup. Really the only people that this would work against are color blind people.

BOgre
11-04-2011, 01:25 PM
simplest solution is to have the color of the button be named in the focus orb. even if you can't read, or can't read english, you should have no problem pattern recognizing "red" "orange" etc, even if you don't understand what the characters mean. step on the button, step off, target the button, read/recognize the description in the focus orb.

for those arguing against this, stop. it's not about you. you can solve the puzzle: grats.

herzkos
11-04-2011, 01:49 PM
first, I would love a color blind only puzzle (one that is significantly easier for a color blind
person than a non-color blind person). not sure how they'd set it up, but it would be awesome.

second, I do indeed think they should have tags in some way that tell you what color the button
lit up to. preferably, by having a rainbow show up stretching from the steps to the door or the altar to the
door. the light bar could have the color written in the middle of the arc (over the altar). you'd still
have to know the colors of the rainbow and the correct configuration from top to bottom or the other way.
and it would truly be a "rainbow in the dark " :D

MrkGrismer
11-04-2011, 02:03 PM
first, I would love a color blind only puzzle (one that is significantly easier for a color blind
person than a non-color blind person). not sure how they'd set it up, but it would be awesome.

You could set one up by having symbols made up of the two colors that some color-blind people can not tell apart. Normals wouldn't be able to make out the symbols very easily, but you would need to have different ones for different types of color-blind people.

It would be interesting, but maybe ddo would not be the best place for such a thing...

My2Cents
11-04-2011, 02:37 PM
If you accomodate every little request, it amounts to a big request. Beyond that, the nature of the quest is the colours of the rainbow -- if our fearless hero is colour blind, then you should be having trouble here...I doubt the monsters set up their security to be handicap-accessible.

This isn't Reavers Fate, where it's a largely arbitrary and random puzzle.

Beyond that, there is a large amount of software out there to assist people with identifying colours. Why ask the devs to do what you can do yourself?

What software will run concurrently with DDO? There is indeed a great deal of software out there. Have you tried any of it while playing DDO? The ones I've tried can't coexist with DDO's open window. I am also unsure if such software would violate the Terms of Use. If you have any recommendations for particular software please let me know.

I am not asking to have every little request accommodated, only one specific request to be addressed. I don't even mind if it was unacceptable, as long as I knew it had been considered. Nor am I asking that DDO be "handicapped accessible" (whatever you define that to be.) That's just plain silly.

I ask again, whats the big deal? Why such opposition? Although I DO thank everyone. With all this unexpected opposition to (and some support for) what I thought was a little thing, the issue stands a much better chance of being seen and evaluated by a dev. I do remember awhile back one of the Turbine Reps specifically saying it was their intention to address issues for the color-blind, so I hope that person has a chance to see this thread.

blkcat1028
11-04-2011, 02:47 PM
I fail to see how having the colours pop up in the focus orb would detract from the puzzle. It would be providing information that a person with normal colour vision already has access to.

Tobril
11-04-2011, 02:52 PM
/signed, with one addition to the OP request…

Make a UI option for things like color recognition issues. The change to the reaver
puzzle made it really hard for me to operate because the pastel colours were harder
to discern from each other than the previous shade/hue/whatever.

Handicapped people should be accommodated, but don’t mess it up for the rest of us.


As far as “things should be hard” arguments…I’m a fat old guy but my character can
run forever. How enjoyable would this GAME be if your character had to stop every
couple of minutes to catch his breath?

Delt
11-04-2011, 02:57 PM
What software will run concurrently with DDO? There is indeed a great deal of software out there.

Colorblind Assistant works with DDO and offers a text-based definition of the colour your mouse is over. I suppose if people can't read english, that's not a solution...but how far down the minority scale are we going to go exactly?

But I have to ask, why is it up to me to spend 30 seconds on google, downloading a small app, loading DDO and taking one minute to test...I'm not even colour blind.


I ask again, whats the big deal? Why such opposition?

Not a big deal for me, I'm just stating why I think it's a silly request. In the context of the quest it's silly, with regards to the untimed nature and the simplistic puzzle it's silly and that software already exists to assist just makes the whole thing asinine.

/shrug

BOgre
11-04-2011, 03:10 PM
delt, your results are ... not bad. a grudging +1 for ya. colorblind assistant works really well, provided you switch to windowed mode, as it doesn't 'stay on top' when DDO is running full screen. So, it's a solution, but still not a really good one. In-game support, like the focus orb idea, would be far better.

blkcat1028
11-04-2011, 03:11 PM
Colorblind Assistant works with DDO and offers a text-based definition of the colour your mouse is over. I suppose if people can't read english, that's not a solution...but how far down the minority scale are we going to go exactly?

But I have to ask, why is it up to me to spend 30 seconds on google, downloading a small app, loading DDO and taking one minute to test...I'm not even colour blind.



Not a big deal for me, I'm just stating why I think it's a silly request. In the context of the quest it's silly, with regards to the untimed nature and the simplistic puzzle it's silly and that software already exists to assist just makes the whole thing asinine.

/shrug

Nice find on the software. I hadn't heard of that one yet. So, thanks.

It works quite well actually. I have to run in windowed mode and alt + tab to get it in front but that's a small price to pay.

I really like that fact that it give the RGB values of the colours as well.

+1 to you Delt

ButtersStotch
11-04-2011, 04:31 PM
I certainly don't mind things being added to help with colorblindness. Any sort of option in UI to help with disabilities is perfectly fine, and I definitely encourage Turbine to implement that sort of thing.

I do, however, have a problem with the 'but my hireling can bork the puzzle' and 'but then I can't solo' arguments. If you're doing -Vale- and haven't figured out how to put your hireling on standby.. you -should- have trouble with the puzzle. Lol. Similarly, there are lots of things that I can't solo because it -physically requires- multiple players. Some of those can be bypassed with a hireling, but others (and I am talking mostly Necropolis here) force a party to split. And, as simple as the quest may be, I am stuck with waiting for a group or forcing my boyfriend to help me.

As much as I may detest it, it -is- an MMO.. so we're kind of stuck when it comes to what we can do solo.


I'll /sign for aiding the colorblind people, though. Preferably with something that can be toggled on or off in the UI.

My2Cents
11-05-2011, 01:21 AM
But I have to ask, why is it up to me to spend 30 seconds on google, downloading a small app, loading DDO and taking one minute to test...I'm not even colour blind.

I very much appreciate your finding one, but why do you assume I did not give it a good effort before asking? I would not have even asked if I had not made what I thought was a good effort first. In fact, had I found that one, I might not even have posted my original request, although it does still have merit. I'm going to try that one next time I'm at the rainbow puzzle and see how well it does.

I had tried many applications for several hours while sitting at the Rainbow Puzzle, and could not get anything useful that would work. I tried a variety of color grabbers, etc. This was also not the first time I tried, and I gave up in frustration. I must have gotten unlucky with my search terms and/or was too frustrated to engage excellent "search fu".

Thanks!

Farayon
11-07-2011, 06:29 AM
I've never had any issues with this, but by all means, anything and everything that assists colorblind or otherwise visually impaired players should be top priority for the Devs above anything else.

arminius
11-07-2011, 08:15 AM
I really think a lot of folks are missing the point of the thread. The devs have over the last few years made a lot of changes to the game to make it easier for color blind people. Wheel puzzles got text descriptions of colors, and the runes on them were made higher contrast. The cooldown timers got significantly darker. Those are just a couple of examples off the top of my head, I know there are more.

All the thread is saying is, don't forget about the Rainbow puzzle as part of this ongoing project. Nobody is saying, OMG all work on PrEs or Druids or new content must stop until the supreme issue of the day, the unfriendliness of the Rainbow puzzle to color blind people, is remediated, Now Now Now, because I said so, so Nyah Nyah Poo Poo to everything else in the game that could possibly matter to anyone else. Get a grip, and leave the drama in drama class (or on Khyber) where it belongs.

Almost all color blind people are male, and the vast majority of players of DDO and other video games are male, and it is just good programming practice to take color blindness into account in GUI and environment design. This is just one area that could use a bit of love in that regard, if possible. That's it.

Iwinbyrollup
11-07-2011, 12:43 PM
/signed.

The puzzle loses any sense of what it's supposed to be. To most people, it's a color puzzle that can be solved using a mathematical solution. To me, it's purely mathematical. Even when using the mathematical solution, individuals with normal color vision have the color names available to them to track progress and make sure everything's right. I've watched a friend complete it. She uses the mathematical solution but corrects any mistakes as she goes. I try it, use the mathematical solution, and then when it doesn't clear once I've gotten to the end, turn to her and ask what I did wrong. She then immediately tells me that I got x color wrong and I'll cycle that color until it completes.

So what I don't understand is that some people say they are against the change for thematic reasons relating to what the puzzle is (a color puzzle where you're supposed to make a rainbow, like the title of the quest!), but this doesn't make sense to me. Because for me, the puzzle has never had anything to do with a rainbow. You're supposed to get the colors so that they're in rainbow order? If you insist. All I know is that you're supposed to blank the tiles (which, by the way, is moderately difficult for me to do in the first place as the red is quite dark) hit the leftmost color 1 time, the rightmost 8 times, and increasing numbers as you go from left to right.

This request isn't about removing the relation to the actual quest name or changing what it is, it's about making it so that it actually is what it's supposed to be for people who otherwise can't experience the thematic aspects.

Of note: some people have been talking about adding numbers. I don't know how clearly this has been thought through. If you were to use the numbers assigned to the Reaver puzzle for example, where 1 = blue, 2 = green, 3 = orange, 4 = purple, 5 = red, 6 = yellow, etc., the puzzle would be just as incomprehensible for a color blind individual; instead of needing to get rainbow color orders, you'd need to get a seemingly random sequence of numbers (5 3 6 2 1 4 7! Very straightforward!). If numbers were instead assigned based on position, so that the correct solution was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7...that would be beyond inane. Having the game tell you the color name, like rune wheels do, on the other hand, doesn't ruin the thematic aspects of the puzzle and doesn't really make it any easier for people with normal color vision--it draws attention to the color change, but it's hard to not realize that the color change is important when that's all it does when you step on it.

biggin
11-07-2011, 10:02 PM
...snip

Nobody is saying, OMG all work on PrEs or Druids or new content must stop until the supreme issue of the day, the unfriendliness of the Rainbow puzzle to color blind people, is remediated, Now Now Now, because I said so, so Nyah Nyah Poo Poo to everything else in the game that could possibly matter to anyone else. Get a grip, and leave the drama in drama class (or on Khyber) where it belongs.



That is actually what the poster directly before you said.

Dexol
11-08-2011, 01:26 AM
What are the odds that there are six color blind people in a group?

Once of my guild mates is, and so are his 5 hirelings, i kid you not :D, he'd love some hint.

Ryiah
11-08-2011, 04:51 PM
alt + tab to get it in front but that's a small price to pay.

PCWorld has a link to a program (really just AutoHotKey with a one-line script) that can force a window to stay on top of other windows. Still forces you to run DDO windowed though.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/218511/force_a_window_to_stay_on_top_of_other_windows.htm l

ssgcmwatson
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
Maybe the people who are saying "no" to the OP should change their monitor settings so that they are playing in B&W for a few hours.

(I realize color-blindness doesn't mean seeing in B&W, just looking for a quick way to experience something similar).

BruceTheHoon
11-08-2011, 07:05 PM
If it's any help to anyone, I've once made a similar AHK (http://www.autohotkey.com/) script for LOTRO.
It displays the color under mouse pointer in a tooltip near the pointer.
After seeing this thread, I've adapted it, so that it now displays percent of individual colors (%R, %G, %B). It's not as good as other similar programs mostly because it doesn't have any color name mappings, but it does work in full-screen mode (some experience flickering).

To use it, just run it along DDO and press shift+printscreen to activate it and shift+printscreen again to deactivate it.
Mind you, it's set to only work in DDO/LOTRO

You can download a compiled script - exe file, or if you don't trust me (and why should you, I'm a "guy" on the "internet"), you can download script or source, install autohotkey (http://www.autohotkey.com/) and run it/compile it for yourself (it's really easy).

Download link to a stand-alone exe here (http://users.cosylab.com/~jbattelino/color-grabber.exe)
Download link to the AHK script file here (http://users.cosylab.com/~jbattelino/color-grabber.ahk)

source code here(so you can be sure I do not intend to grab your megahurtzs):


#IfWinActive ahk_class Turbine Device Class
BeActive := FALSE
CoordMode Pixel, Screen
CoordMode Mouse, Screen

+PrintScreen::
BeActive := !(BeActive && TRUE)
if(BeActive) {
SetTimer, WatchCursor, 50
} else {
SetTimer, WatchCursor, off
ToolTip
}
return

WatchCursor:
MouseGetPos X, Y
PixelGetColor Color, %X%, %Y%, RGB

Blue := Color & 0x0000ff
Color := Color/256
Green := Color & 0x0000ff
Color := Color/256
Red:= Color & 0x0000ff

Redp := Round(Red/255*100)
Greenp := Round(Green/255*100)
Bluep := Round(Blue/255*100)
ToolTip, R=%Redp% G=%Greenp% B=%Bluep%

BOgre
11-08-2011, 08:59 PM
nice little script, but can't make shift+printscreen enable/disable it. also doesn't overlay in fullscreen mode, only in windowed mode.