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View Full Version : Devs: Double Strike and Stacking?



Dark-Star
10-31-2011, 10:52 PM
Devs,

With more items being introduced that have double strike on them, can we get a general rule of thumb from you as to what stacks and what does not?

Short of that, how about includiung the type of bonus each item with double strike has in the description of the item? Monk Air stance gives an insight bonus to double strike for example, does the new belt give competence? Does Teir 2 Air crafted Alchemical double strike give an alchemical double strike bonus? How about the Inpire Recklessness song?

A little clarification would go a long way.

LeLoric
11-01-2011, 12:09 AM
Devs,

With more items being introduced that have double strike on them, can we get a general rule of thumb from you as to what stacks and what does not?

Short of that, how about includiung the type of bonus each item with double strike has in the description of the item? Monk Air stance gives an insight bonus to double strike for example, does the new belt give competence? Does Teir 2 Air crafted Alchemical double strike give an alchemical double strike bonus? How about the Inpire Recklessness song?

A little clarification would go a long way.

I did some testing this last spring on some of this stuff. I don't have the data anymore due to a hard drive failure and the testing is really really hard to pin down without devoting a large amount of time to a large sample size as sometimes the difference of 2-3% is really hard to get. So yes some dev input and confirmation would be appreciated.

As far as I could tell no item bonuses stack. I tried the epic swashbuckler (6%) with both a 3% smallblade and a 6% smallblade and no stacking here at all.

Pally zeal, fighter capstone, opportunist and tempest III all stack with items. Since none can exist simultaneously it's unsure if they would stack with each other.

Monk Wind stance stacks with both of the above categories.

Inspire recklessness stacks with all three of the above categories.

Best possible stacking DS scenario I was able to come up with was. 14 pally/6monk

Zeal 10%
Epic smallblade offhand 6%
Wind stance II 5%
Recklessness 5%

Testing on a build with this I was actually able to achieve ~25.5% doublestrike success rate over a sample of 5000 swings. Unfortunately I no longer have the raw data so take this as you will but I am not about to spend hours doing the tests again.

Ovrad
11-01-2011, 01:44 AM
LeLoric, you probably can answer something we've been wondering for a while. Does doublestrike affects both main hand and off-hand, or simply the main?

Shade
11-01-2011, 05:46 AM
The devs are always purposely vague on this kind of thing for a reason.

Usually they like to make us work for it. I doubt they will answer.

Other times they just dont know either.

Dark-Star
11-01-2011, 11:24 AM
I did some testing this last spring on some of this stuff. I don't have the data anymore due to a hard drive failure and the testing is really really hard to pin down without devoting a large amount of time to a large sample size as sometimes the difference of 2-3% is really hard to get. So yes some dev input and confirmation would be appreciated.

As far as I could tell no item bonuses stack. I tried the epic swashbuckler (6%) with both a 3% smallblade and a 6% smallblade and no stacking here at all.

Pally zeal, fighter capstone, opportunist and tempest III all stack with items. Since none can exist simultaneously it's unsure if they would stack with each other.

Monk Wind stance stacks with both of the above categories.

Inspire recklessness stacks with all three of the above categories.

Best possible stacking DS scenario I was able to come up with was. 14 pally/6monk

Zeal 10%
Epic smallblade offhand 6%
Wind stance II 5%
Recklessness 5%

Testing on a build with this I was actually able to achieve ~25.5% doublestrike success rate over a sample of 5000 swings. Unfortunately I no longer have the raw data so take this as you will but I am not about to spend hours doing the tests again.

Thanks LeLoric, that's at least a start.

It would be great to know if the T2 Air is an alchemical bonus or a regular item bonus like the rest.

Backley
11-01-2011, 11:29 AM
LeLoric, you probably can answer something we've been wondering for a while. Does doublestrike affects both main hand and off-hand, or simply the main?

Doublestrike only ever affects the main hand attacks. It is a 'chance to make 2 attacks with the main hand instead of 1'.

So that's what it affects. Note that the source of the doublestrike bonus can be anywhere (I use the Epic Cutthroat's Small Blade in the off-hand).

Khellendros13
11-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Thanks LeLoric, that's at least a start.

It would be great to know if the T2 Air is an alchemical bonus or a regular item bonus like the rest.

From dummy beatdowns, Emili and I both agree that T2 Air doublestrike stacks with Fighter Capstone (Emili) and Zeal (myself).

I made my T2 last night (Earth/Air) and I noticed it right away. She tested more methodically and was finding closer to 20-30% Dublestrike over 100 swings.

Ovrad
11-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Doublestrike only ever affects the main hand attacks. It is a 'chance to make 2 attacks with the main hand instead of 1'.

So that's what it affects. Note that the source of the doublestrike bonus can be anywhere (I use the Epic Cutthroat's Small Blade in the off-hand).

Thanks!

SteeleTrueheart
11-01-2011, 09:32 PM
I did some testing this last spring on some of this stuff. I don't have the data anymore due to a hard drive failure and the testing is really really hard to pin down without devoting a large amount of time to a large sample size as sometimes the difference of 2-3% is really hard to get. So yes some dev input and confirmation would be appreciated.

As far as I could tell no item bonuses stack. I tried the epic swashbuckler (6%) with both a 3% smallblade and a 6% smallblade and no stacking here at all.

Pally zeal, fighter capstone, opportunist and tempest III all stack with items. Since none can exist simultaneously it's unsure if they would stack with each other.

Monk Wind stance stacks with both of the above categories.

Inspire recklessness stacks with all three of the above categories.

Best possible stacking DS scenario I was able to come up with was. 14 pally/6monk

Zeal 10%
Epic smallblade offhand 6%
Wind stance II 5%
Recklessness 5%

Testing on a build with this I was actually able to achieve ~25.5% doublestrike success rate over a sample of 5000 swings. Unfortunately I no longer have the raw data so take this as you will but I am not about to spend hours doing the tests again.

I wish you still had that data! would make my own testing much easier as I don't have much time for it at present.

My results so far are here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=338851).

I actually have a 14 Pali/6Monk, built to be a doublestrike master. Still haven't had enough time in the new quests to get him an alchemical set of handwraps yet.

LeLoric
11-02-2011, 01:02 AM
I wish you still had that data! would make my own testing much easier as I don't have much time for it at present.

My results so far are here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=338851).

I actually have a 14 Pali/6Monk, built to be a doublestrike master. Still haven't had enough time in the new quests to get him an alchemical set of handwraps yet.

Yeah unfortunately I spent enough time trying to salvage the really important info off the drive and DDO stuff was just not worth the effort.

At first glance what you got here pretty much matches my conclusions also.

LeLoric
11-02-2011, 01:04 AM
Thanks LeLoric, that's at least a start.

It would be great to know if the T2 Air is an alchemical bonus or a regular item bonus like the rest.

Yeah I don't have a tier 2 air weapon yet, sadly that spirit seems to be avoiding me so far.

Emili
12-05-2011, 03:59 AM
From dummy beatdowns, Emili and I both agree that T2 Air doublestrike stacks with Fighter Capstone (Emili) and Zeal (myself).

I made my T2 last night (Earth/Air) and I noticed it right away. She tested more methodically and was finding closer to 20-30% Dublestrike over 100 swings.

;) not fool proof ... but it was 10 sets of 100 swings. What looked like to me possibly was that the enhancement got a chance to proc and the weapon got it's own chance to proc?