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View Full Version : U12 Bugged items - and there are a lot.



Shade
10-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Massive amount of buggy items added/upgraded/bugged this update.. Here a list of some:

New Epic weapons:
It's almost as if you guys just mashed random buttons when typing in the damage dice.. I mean the rule has always been fairly simple: Double dice, putting them very slightly ahead of greensteel, where they should be, before magical effects/increased threat/multi is considered, yet many aren't:
Mournlode:
Longsword, Lightmace, Greataxe: all double good.
Shortsword: Double + expanded threat - well monks are pay to win, and this is ninjas spy weapon, no surprises here.
Warhammer:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6924/epicmournloadwarhammer.jpg
2d6? no.. Should be 2d8.
19-20/x2? err. Warhammer is 20/x3 crit.. kinda backwards, tho in this case i think that actaully ups DPS by a miniscule amount due to the bursts on the weapons.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/831/epicmournloadmaul.jpg
2handed version straight worse then the 1handed equiv? ..
Should be 2d10.

Actually I think all blunt equivs should get +1 threat (and there proper multipliers). Being they are really only useful for skeletons, that would be a very small dps boost, and still leave them behind the common lvl12 tripos pos greensteel.

Colomel:
All are fine except:
Repeater, d10.. Not doubled at all.

Epic Mournlode Chain:
Weak undead effect reported to be not functioning. Didnt test myself.

New/Upgraded raid loot:
Vengeful Protector:
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5296/vengefulprotector.jpg
First bug should be obvious from screenshot alone.. Need a hint? look at leviks for comparison:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8435/leviks.jpg

Both mithral.. But one is pretty clearly missing its DR breaking types (silver and mithral) Also tested vs stormreaver and vamps in orchard, does not break their DRs.

Bug 2 with it:
Bashing - 20% doesn't work properly.

From the descript, i kinda assumed this would work like improved shield bash feat, and stack with it.. EG: Do regular swing with it equiped, and 20% of swings would be mainhand + shieldbash.. Not the case, it never procs (on char without said feat)

So I tried actaully bashing with it.. This is the result:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4156/bashing20doesntwork.jpg
It "helps" enemies with the effect.. And essentially does not add a 2nd bash.. What it does is make the holy effect on it proc twice, very weird.

Abbot new quiver cant be upgraded (http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9546/quivercantbeupgraded.jpg)
And yes, that is the new "upgradable one". The barter ui wont accept it. Disapointing.

Madstone boots:
Not new, but they were touched.. Yet they still dont work per description. Not providing the proper 20% melee haste.

Im sure many more are bugged.. Good thing we got some at the dev event to test.

Crazyfruit
10-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Those warhammers and mauls apparently do slashing damage? o_O

mystafyi
10-30-2011, 04:38 PM
great work... wish the dev's would just spawn every item for you on lamma. I know you would quickly find every flaw/bug.

Shade
10-30-2011, 04:42 PM
Those warhammers and mauls apparently do slashing damage? o_O

nice catch.. didnt spot that either..

This is why the whole silly idea of "dont test, previous" is poor policy. They simply dont have enough manpower to test everything, and thats nothing aginst turbine.. No mmo does, would take quite a huge staff.. Many others just do the logical thing of encouraging the players to test and report things.

Gimpinator
10-30-2011, 06:57 PM
Impressive.. Bet you won't get a QA comment on this one!

Yalann
10-30-2011, 07:24 PM
nice catch.. didnt spot that either..

This is why the whole silly idea of "dont test, previous" is poor policy. They simply dont have enough manpower to test everything, and thats nothing aginst turbine.. No mmo does, would take quite a huge staff.. Many others just do the logical thing of encouraging the players to test and report things.

No MMO does? I played EQ for 6 years and 10+ packs. The combined bugs, error, problems, etc. in all that time were less than 1/2 of what 1 DDO update has. Yes, they had more money but it is clearly doable.

If you don't have the staff to test it though, let the players actually test it. You don't need 10000 people to test new weapons. You let the 10 guys that WANT to test it get them easily so they can, well, test them. I would gladly test more items and such if I didn't have to spend a week grinding things out to test them, especially when most weren't even able to be acquired until recently.

What would help DDO the most with errors is if they STOPPED releasing bugged content and pushed back the release date until it is close to done, not still in incomplete test status.

AZgreentea
10-30-2011, 07:25 PM
Is it possible the description is simply incorrect? Maybe try them on some skellies to see if it really does slashing damage.

Seikojin
10-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Impressive.. Bet you won't get a QA comment on this one!

Of course not, it is probably a known issue. Priority would depend on how many customer bugs are filed.

BOgre
10-30-2011, 07:38 PM
Impressive.. Bet you won't get a QA comment on this one!



Let's talk about Lamannia for a min. It is a preview world. I say that for a reason, because I want feedback, but I don't expect people to 'bug hunt'

So yeah, nice work Shade, but probably wasted effort.

Shade
10-31-2011, 05:21 AM
No MMO does? I played EQ for 6 years and 10+ packs. The combined bugs, error, problems, etc. in all that time were less than 1/2 of what 1 DDO update has. Yes, they had more money but it is clearly doable.

If you don't have the staff to test it though, let the players actually test it. You don't need 10000 people to test new weapons. You let the 10 guys that WANT to test it get them easily so they can, well, test them. I would gladly test more items and such if I didn't have to spend a week grinding things out to test them, especially when most weren't even able to be acquired until recently.

What would help DDO the most with errors is if they STOPPED releasing bugged content and pushed back the release date until it is close to done, not still in incomplete test status.

Yea.. EQ has a real public test server, they actively work with the players to get bugs fixed. Always did far as I know. They even have this amazing thing - a proper, functional ingame bug report system.

It's something every serious mmo developer has... Except this one. Turbines policy of having no player test server (or fucntional ingame bug report, or even a bug report forum) heavily re-enforces the poor QA the game suffers.

Turbines continue defiance of saying this is what it is (a test server). Or adding a bug report forum or making any changes what so ever just continues them along the same road they've been on for years.

Comon major malph, I dare you to try harder.
-Demolish mournlands. Closed environments are not helpful. Testing and reporting is something that greatly benefits from openess and redundacy, not exclusivity and obscurity.
-Declare Lamannia the official test server. Encourage players to play here and report bugs.
-Create a official bug report forum.
-Change the ingame function to simply link to the forum.
-Respond to every major report. Even if its just "thanks" or "yep known". Ones that are obvious duplicates, moderator can simply close/merge.
-Give DDO the QA it deserves.

As much as I prefer DDO over world of warcraft. They are more successful. They do excellent QA. They don't hide it from the players. They use public test servers, they have an official bug report forum. They do it like this for a reason.

Just look for yourself:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1020823612

Sometimes you have to look at games that do it better and accept the fact your system needs improvement.

mystafyi
10-31-2011, 06:13 AM
I find it amusing the bug reporting function is bugged. At least they gave up on it. previously you would submit bugs and they would get auto-deleted. ;)


Comon major malph, I dare you to try harder.
-Declare Lamannia the official test server. Encourage players to play here and report bugs.
-Create a official bug report forum.


btw shade, its already been said there will never be a bug forum and lamma will not be a test server.

I just asked about rewarding players with non-monetary items for finding/reporting bugs and was told http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4150266&postcount=39

apep1412
10-31-2011, 06:54 AM
So I tried actaully bashing with it.. This is the result:
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4156/bashing20doesntwork.jpg
What it does is make the holy effect on it proc twice, very weird.

You rolled a crit. That 'extra' holy damage was the burst damage.

Monkey_Archer
10-31-2011, 07:03 AM
Bug 2 with it:
Bashing - 20% doesn't work properly.

From the descript, i kinda assumed this would work like improved shield bash feat, and stack with it.. EG: Do regular swing with it equiped, and 20% of swings would be mainhand + shieldbash.. Not the case, it never procs (on char without said feat)


This is likely due to the fact that the improved shield bash feat doesn't actually do what it says in the description either.

What the improved shield bash feat actually does is apply a shield bash to your next attack every ~3 seconds or so. (probably coded as a hidden ~3 second countdown-like effect). This also causes obvious problems due to how attack speeds vary with haste/boosts/etc... My testing indicates that unbuffed you will perform a shield bash on every 5th swing 100% of the time (20% as the description states) but hasted its only 1 in 6, haste boosted its even less.

So given thats how the feat is coded, its no surprise that this doesn't work at all.

My questions for the devs would be:
Is the improved shield bash feat working as intended?
If yes: Is the shield bashing item effect supposed to be a separate effect (so every 3 seconds you get 2 shield bashes simultaneously) or does it shorten the countdown (so every 1.5 seconds you get a shield bash)
If no: Will the shield bashing effect add to to improved shield bash feat (for 40% chance every swing), or be a separate proc chance (allowing double bashes). And of course when can we expect it to be fixed :)

Hordo
10-31-2011, 07:31 AM
nice catch.. didnt spot that either..

This is why the whole silly idea of "dont test, previous" is poor policy. They simply dont have enough manpower to test everything, and thats nothing aginst turbine.. No mmo does, would take quite a huge staff.. Many others just do the logical thing of encouraging the players to test and report things.

If only there were a server that they could properly QA test these things out....:confused:

It is such a shame that we have to sit here and mourn for a land that believes in the power of proper QA testing...:rolleyes:

Shade
10-31-2011, 02:23 PM
If only there were a server that they could properly QA test these things out....:confused:

It is such a shame that we have to sit here and mourn for a land that believes in the power of proper QA testing...:rolleyes:

Mournlands is not a test server either. Also a "preview" server. And really foolishly, a closed one.

Shade
10-31-2011, 02:24 PM
You rolled a crit. That 'extra' holy damage was the burst damage.

mmm yea thats likely it.. Guess it does nothing. good thing i put up a screenshot.

waterboytkd
10-31-2011, 05:37 PM
It's so hard to take things you say seriously, Shade, when you put gems like this in your posts:


Shortsword: Double + expanded threat - well monks are pay to win, and this is ninjas spy weapon, no surprises here.

First, how are monks pay to win? Do monk players trivialize the game? Can you not succeed in this game without going monk? Answer to both questions: nope.

This isn't the first time I've seen you attack monks this update, and it's frustrating because I don't think you've ever played one seriously. Otherwise, you'd know a monk (and I don't mean a deep monk splash) that uses shortswords is a completely gimped toon. Them giving good shortswords to ninja spies isn't actually doing the ninja spies any favors.

Now, it's cool that you're posting all these bugs and whatnot so the devs are aware of them (I assume they are not), but these kinds of sucker punches, especially undeserved ones, only serve to distract from your OP and to weaken your overall credibility. So, I'm sorry to sidetrack from the topic of the thread. In an effort to keep this post somewhat on topic:

Epic Cutthroat Smallblade also has double dice plus expanded crit range. Maybe they gave these items that on purpose because shortswords are otherwise not worth using ever, and this at least makes them viable for toons with Imp Crit: Piercing.

Shade
10-31-2011, 08:16 PM
First, how are monks pay to win? .

They are the ONLY class to cost turbine points (Qualification: for non VIP, U12), they are a good class. Nothing more need be said.

Far as taking me seriously. Id ask you to stake my reputation, and thus your opinion, on what you know of me as a whole. Not per post, on a whim on your personal opinion one small facet of the game as a whole.

Either way through, I appreciate the support.


Epic Cutthroat Smallblade also has double dice plus expanded crit range. Maybe they gave these items that on purpose because shortswords are otherwise not worth using ever, and this at least makes them viable for toons with Imp Crit: Piercing.
Ding.
That.. or because they are the favored weapons of ninja spy. Either way.
There are other weapons in the game that are otherwise absoletely 100% never worth using, that do not get such attention.
*cough* greatclub *cough* (The new greatclub in u12 is rather un-impresssive, while the colomels weapons rivel the ESoS, if only versus one target)

Dilgar
10-31-2011, 09:39 PM
Ninja Spies dont actually use short swords. You might as well be saying drow are pay to win because they get shortsword enhancements.

Symar-FangofLloth
10-31-2011, 10:08 PM
You mean that drow Ninja Spy I've been planning on is gimped? ;)

Auran82
10-31-2011, 10:27 PM
You mean that drow Ninja Spy I've been planning on is gimped? ;)

No, it's clearly OP and Pay to Win.

About the only use Ninja Spys had for Short Swords was smiters and banishers before they changed them.

The modified shortswords are for finesse TWFers if anything, no penalty for dual weilding etc.

waterboytkd
11-01-2011, 01:07 AM
That.. or because they are the favored weapons of ninja spy. Either way.

Gah. The thing is: they are not. That was my point. It makes your evaluation of shortswords seem invalid when you claim any love they get is because of monks. Monks, no matter how Ninja Spy they are, don't use shortswords. The only time they do is if they're a flavor build monk. And that's because the simple act of equipping a shortsword completely gimps a Ninja Spy. I mean, they can't use the one ability that makes dark monks even worth it.

That said, I am totally for epic shortswords, greatclubs, battleaxes, handaxes, light hammers, warhammers, longswords, and many other weapons getting boosts like the last couple epic shortswords have gotten. As these weapons stand, they are generally worthless. The bump that epic Cutthroat Smallblade et al got actually makes those weapons good, but not so powerful that they are used exclusively.

PS I would argue with you on your definition of Pay 2 Win, but that would really be derailing the thread, so I won't (just pointing out that I do disagree with on the way you use that phrase).

Ovrad
11-01-2011, 01:50 AM
Shade, using short swords on a ninja spy is about as good as using them on a barbarian. You can, but you're clearly gimping yourself.

roryk27
11-01-2011, 04:36 AM
I payed for the monk class and haven't won ddo yet.. Mine must be broken.

Shade
11-01-2011, 05:38 AM
Ninja Spies dont actually use short swords. You might as well be saying drow are pay to win because they get shortsword enhancements.

The developers don't know that.

What actaully happens in the game, versus what they think players do are often quite different.

Pay to win.

Shade
11-01-2011, 05:43 AM
I payed for the monk class and haven't won ddo yet.. Mine must be broken.

submit a bug report

Eladiun
11-01-2011, 08:14 AM
Shortsword: Double + expanded threat - well monks are pay to win, and this is ninjas spy weapon, no surprises here.


I always felt Barbarians were Pay2Win.

Siftrant
11-01-2011, 08:44 AM
There is only one true currency in life -- Time.

Everyone playing an MMO is Pay2Win. Some pay their time directly by playing for 16x7. Others, trade their time for money which they then use to purchase things which they could have gotten by spending the time directly.

We are all Paying to Win.

RedDragonScale
11-01-2011, 09:22 AM
Ninja Spies dont actually use short swords.

This is MOSTLY true.

A Half-Elf Rogue Dilettante Ninja Spy II currently gets 6d6 of Sneak Attack damage. If, and that's a BIG "if", Ninja Spy III grants 3d6 additional Sneak Attack damage (as the Ninja Spy progression would suggest), it may be come practical for Ninja Spies of that particular race and background to wind up using 2 x Radiance II shortswords versus those things which are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks.

2 x Mournlode Shortswords versus Undead would only be useful for a Ninja Spy that does not have the Epic Handwraps of Endless Light.

For everything else (besides undead) that isn't vulnerable to Sneak Attacks, you'd have to use some other sort of Handwraps.

Thrudh
11-01-2011, 09:48 AM
Far as taking me seriously. Id ask you to stake my reputation, and thus your opinion, on what you know of me as a whole.

The problem is, you don't know what you don't know.


Ninja Spies dont actually use short swords. You might as well be saying drow are pay to win because they get shortsword enhancements.

This.

Monkey_Archer
11-01-2011, 09:58 AM
I always felt Barbarians were Pay2Win.

Nope. Barbarians are Free2Win :)

Jaid314
11-01-2011, 11:29 AM
Nope. Barbarians are Free2Win :)

no they're not. it's just that someone else has gets stuck with the paying (*chug chug*) ;)

Chai
11-01-2011, 03:32 PM
No MMO does? I played EQ for 6 years and 10+ packs. The combined bugs, error, problems, etc. in all that time were less than 1/2 of what 1 DDO update has. Yes, they had more money but it is clearly doable.

If you don't have the staff to test it though, let the players actually test it. You don't need 10000 people to test new weapons. You let the 10 guys that WANT to test it get them easily so they can, well, test them. I would gladly test more items and such if I didn't have to spend a week grinding things out to test them, especially when most weren't even able to be acquired until recently.

What would help DDO the most with errors is if they STOPPED releasing bugged content and pushed back the release date until it is close to done, not still in incomplete test status.

Shenanigans.

EQ was LOADED with bugs. Several times what DDO has at any one given time. EQ patches were also alot more harsh. Stuff would just get removed from the game until the bug was fixed sometimes for months at a time. If that item just happened to be step 24 in a 38 step epic quest, tough. No more epic items for your class until they fix it, completely at their leisure. Priority? Bottom of the pile.

In other news all you needed to tank raid bosses was a wave crasher, because while being one of the worse DPS weapons, the aggro on the proc was so huge no one, regardless of amount of DPS output, could pull aggro from a wavecrasher user. This is, of course, right up to and until VI banned a thousand players or so due to using the weapon for long periods of time and not reporting the bug, which we were supposed to determine by ourselves was a bug. Wavecrashers were unequippable for a few months while they figured that one out. You farmed the same zone for 8 months to get one? Tough.

Oh yea, and if you got on their forums to complain about various issues, all your posts were removed unless they were in the right forum and in the right tone. They not only had a bug fixing policy that was several times more hilarious than DDO has, but when people spoke up about it on their forums like they do here, posts got nuked by the score.


And most of the time their "fix" included a nerf.

maddmatt70
11-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Oh this is a funny game. Monks will never be a gimpy class. I can not see what is happening to paladins in game right now ever happening to the monk class. As long as monk is pay to play that will not happen.

Now FVS vs. Cleric has an interesting history. The cleric for a brief period of about a month was more powerful then the FVS. When Radiant Servant first came out the radiant servant's aura was twice as powerful as it is now and actually clerics had a significant healing advantage vs. an FVS. Many players started to choose to play their clerics instead of their FVS. Turbine had one of the fastest responses to that situation that I can recall and nerfed that aura within 3-4 weeks of release. Haha. Clerics have since fallen ever more behind the FVS with AOV's release.

What I am most interested in hearing is what is next? Since the Spell pass and Sorc/FVS prestige enhancements there has been the release of the Artificer class and of course a bunch of monk buffs, but what is happening with the classes, feats, spells, etc. in the future?

Scraap
11-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Intention query on the mournlodes: Are they perhaps supposed to work like Rahl's Might, where it breaks blunt and slash? Seems that'd put them under the generalized undead beater category. (Still not perfect, but it would explain why slash showed up.)

Lord_Thanatos
11-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Shenanigans.

EQ was LOADED with bugs. Several times what DDO has at any one given time. EQ patches were also alot more harsh. Stuff would just get removed from the game until the bug was fixed sometimes for months at a time. If that item just happened to be step 24 in a 38 step epic quest, tough. No more epic items for your class until they fix it, completely at their leisure. Priority? Bottom of the pile.

In other news all you needed to tank raid bosses was a wave crasher, because while being one of the worse DPS weapons, the aggro on the proc was so huge no one, regardless of amount of DPS output, could pull aggro from a wavecrasher user. This is, of course, right up to and until VI banned a thousand players or so due to using the weapon for long periods of time and not reporting the bug, which we were supposed to determine by ourselves was a bug. Wavecrashers were unequippable for a few months while they figured that one out. You farmed the same zone for 8 months to get one? Tough.

Oh yea, and if you got on their forums to complain about various issues, all your posts were removed unless they were in the right forum and in the right tone. They not only had a bug fixing policy that was several times more hilarious than DDO has, but when people spoke up about it on their forums like they do here, posts got nuked by the score.


And most of the time their "fix" included a nerf.

Other games didn't have an entire set of equipment that was on whole, completely buggy and almost unusable or unreliable to work.

I would like you to show something in another game that matches handwraps and for how LONG handwraps have been bugged.

Lets not mention last Mabar. That obviously wasn't swept under the rug as fast they could.

Auran82
11-01-2011, 06:23 PM
U12 comes out in a week, the race is on.

sirgog
11-01-2011, 07:11 PM
Tier 3 Frozen Tunic removes Major Ice Lore, but doesn't add Superior Ice Lore (which other items do). Oops.

Shade
11-07-2011, 05:02 PM
Recent patch fixes:

Vengeful Protector:
Mythril property fixed (Now breaks DR Silver and Mihtral)
Shield bashing 20% effect remains broken (applies the effect to enemies as a buff on bashes, which has no effect)

All mournlode/calomel weapons:
Now properly double base dice and standard threat/multi. Including nerfing the shortsword to standard 19-20 and mace to standard 20/x2. Blunt weapons now properly blunt.