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View Full Version : Sands/VoN epic upgrades?



Yokido
10-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Can we get an expected due date on these suggestions, it'd be nice to get some feedback
as to whether or not to ever expect VoN/Sands upgrades, or to wait until the next update.

Thanks!

herzkos
10-28-2011, 03:40 PM
please, don't "upgrade" epic anything. figure out what you want to do with future content and
work accordingly.
don't rebalance things, plan them out properly in the first place.

Xenostrata
10-28-2011, 04:32 PM
please, don't "upgrade" epic anything. figure out what you want to do with future content and
work accordingly.
don't rebalance things, plan them out properly in the first place.

None of us are suggesting that the Necklace of Crimson Prophecy should suddenly be best in slot for everyone, just that the incredibly useless stuff has at least some niche use.

Yokido
10-28-2011, 06:35 PM
Or how about the weathered targe, completely useless..

As it stands there are very few reasons why people are running
these two epic raids, they will see a lot more purchases and general
play of these places if they were to make all of the items
usable in some way.

Yan_PL
10-28-2011, 06:40 PM
when I bought those packs, I bought them for eSoS, eBloodstone, eMarlith...

and there are still plenty of items there that are nice/so-so. some should see upgrades, but... meh. :P

LordPiglet
10-28-2011, 07:47 PM
Or how about the weathered targe, completely useless..

As it stands there are very few reasons why people are running
these two epic raids, they will see a lot more purchases and general
play of these places if they were to make all of the items
usable in some way.

they're being run, just not pugged

Shade
10-28-2011, 11:20 PM
don't rebalance things, plan them out properly in the first place.

the nature of an mmo demands change and upgrades. It's impossible to plan loot out to work well years later.

Upgrades are neccesary to keep things interesting and worthwhile, every good mmo does this.

Yalann
10-29-2011, 12:02 AM
I don't think anyone is asking that they be made comparable to ESOS, EMC, etc. The Phiarlan and Deneith packs had their gear upgraded. While those packs had pretty poor items overall, I see no reason to stop at only fixing the 'bad' gear in one area. There is also no reason they can't both upgrade older loot to make it atleast appeal to people without 'the best' gear in the game and work on making new items serve a purpose without being overpowered.

Yokido
10-29-2011, 05:36 AM
I'm trying hard to remember how many parts are usually added to an update,
given that U12 is supposed to be a smaller one.. I'm dreadfully assuming that
we've seen just about all of what will come of it, someone tell me that there's
still a smidgen of a hope at some epic tweaks! T_T

Lord_Darquain
10-29-2011, 12:06 PM
It would be nice if more epic gear was exciting and interesting instead of a few gems among the coal.

Even the new lvl18 VoD sword people don't like is more powerful than most epic weapons.


And yadda yadda lvl12 greensteel weps are more powerful than harder-to-make epic weps that require separate Adventure Packs for each weapon. Might as well just buy Vale and save money. :(

herzkos
10-30-2011, 04:23 PM
None of us are suggesting that the Necklace of Crimson Prophecy should suddenly be best in slot for everyone, just that the incredibly useless stuff has at least some niche use.

with respect sir, I'm not advocating no changes: my request is that the devs use proper planning
to ensure that current items are not made obsolete by future items. simply put,
if they plan properly, there are plenty of equipment slots. Depending on the character type you are running,
a necklace of x of lesser y could be more advantageous than a neckace of y of lesser x.
ideally (imo), what is decent for a fighter at a certain experience level(player not character) would be awesome
as a monk (at the same player exp level) and likewise what is good for a monk (at same player exp level) would
be garbage for a fighter.
No discrimination intended, one could easily replace any and all examples of "monk" vs "fighter" in the above
example.

the point being, have a plan. please for the sake of all that is (un)holy figure out what you want to
accomplish and then make it happen :).

Gear should not drive content. With a plan (dev's plan, not player's plan), the gear from the current pack
should enable a player to compete the next content :D.

Lord_Darquain
10-31-2011, 09:00 AM
The problem with what you're saying is that gameplay drives development. They can plan and develop things one way but players use them in entirely different ways. If those different ways leads to problems, the answer isn't to scold players, it's to change things to match the way the game is being played.

For instance, I doubt they thought greensteel would be this important to so many. And I highly suspect gear portfolios and raid runs look very different on Mournland, where the developers are playing them the way they had in mind when they designed them. Changes both on Lamania iterations and in future updates help to bring those expectations into line with the actual play experience they see happening with live players.

Furthermore, I'd expect it's extremely difficult to design quests/raids, class/race features, and gear all at the same time when the people on Mournland testing them are utilizing them all at once while each individual mechanic needs to be slowly released to the live servers via the release schedule.

LoB might be easier with a u12 monk tank and gear from the challenges, it might be easier still with classes we don't have covering roles and providing buffs, and with gear we won't see for years added into the mix. Certainly they could try to run "u12 spec" tests on the Mournland runs, but even then the players are still Mournland players that are coming in with their own strategies and tactics developed in a foreign environment.

The fix is to test on a public, but not live, sever - which they do (Lamannia) AND to patch the live versions as player reactions come in on a massive scale - which they do, and which this thread is advocating.

If they didn't have a plan, we wouldn't be getting anything at all.

To paraphrase Moltke's famous quote, no plan survives first contact with the customer base. ;)

Talesin
10-31-2011, 10:53 AM
And yadda yadda lvl12 greensteel weps are more powerful than harder-to-make epic weps that require separate Adventure Packs for each weapon. Might as well just buy Vale and save money. :(

LOL... Let's face it, EVERYBODY who gives this game more than a casual look buys the Vale within 2 or 3 months. It is the only MUST buy content in the game, all the other packs you can buy when and if you want. Anyone who is even considering trying to get an epic weapon has already bought the pack.

----------------------------

That being said I do agree that epic weapons should be a little bit more "epic". Personally I would love to see a bunch (50+ unique weapons) of super rare unbound weapon drops added to all of the epic quests.

- All would be in the eSoS or eChaosblade quality of weapon or better. (They would be overpowered by design but so rare as to not make a noticable difference in power-creep)
- The drop rate of any individual weapon would be such that you might see 1 or 2 per server... aka impossible to farm for.
- The dropping of one of these weapons should be a server wide event... aka "Hey did you hear that so-and-so got one of those unique epic weapons?!?"... "Really? Has he linked it on the forums yet?"
- I would recommend unbound because none of these weapon should be wasted... they should be free to swap to one of thier other characters or to sell on the open market.

Why do I think this would be a good idea?

- It adds to the excitement of the game!
- It reduces the "cookie-cutter" aspect of the game slightly... although I have to admit that DDO is a lot less cookie-cutter than most MMO's.
- For people who have done everything and have everything it gives them something else to be excited about... possibly keeping them in the game and active for longer.
- Because they are so rare there would be the constant thrill of possible discovery of a new uber weapon.
- For people lucky enough to own one of these weapons you get to be ACTUALLY unique. "That guy with the unique sword, warhammer, longbow, etc." The best example I have for this is Zexxi from Kybher. He's a crit range 14 barbarian + 6 ranger archer wielding a epic thornlord... he absolutely rips things apart with his bow. There is no one else on the server (or the game as far as i know) with a build like his because his build type has been gone from the game for years. Let's face it... it would be cool to have the chance of being that unique.

Jandric
10-31-2011, 11:19 AM
LOL... Let's face it, EVERYBODY who gives this game more than a casual look buys the Vale within 2 or 3 months. It is the only MUST buy content in the game, all the other packs you can buy when and if you want. Anyone who is even considering trying to get an epic weapon has already bought the pack.

----------------------------

That being said I do agree that epic weapons should be a little bit more "epic". Personally I would love to see a bunch (50+ unique weapons) of super rare unbound weapon drops added to all of the epic quests.

- All would be in the eSoS or eChaosblade quality of weapon or better. (They would be overpowered by design but so rare as to not make a noticable difference in power-creep)
- The drop rate of any individual weapon would be such that you might see 1 or 2 per server... aka impossible to farm for.
- The dropping of one of these weapons should be a server wide event... aka "Hey did you hear that so-and-so got one of those unique epic weapons?!?"... "Really? Has he linked it on the forums yet?"
- I would recommend unbound because none of these weapon should be wasted... they should be free to swap to one of thier other characters or to sell on the open market.

Why do I think this would be a good idea?

- It adds to the excitement of the game!
- It reduces the "cookie-cutter" aspect of the game slightly... although I have to admit that DDO is a lot less cookie-cutter than most MMO's.
- For people who have done everything and have everything it gives them something else to be excited about... possibly keeping them in the game and active for longer.
- Because they are so rare there would be the constant thrill of possible discovery of a new uber weapon.
- For people lucky enough to own one of these weapons you get to be ACTUALLY unique. "That guy with the unique sword, warhammer, longbow, etc." The best example I have for this is Zexxi from Kybher. He's a crit range 14 barbarian + 6 ranger archer wielding a epic thornlord... he absolutely rips things apart with his bow. There is no one else on the server (or the game as far as i know) with a build like his because his build type has been gone from the game for years. Let's face it... it would be cool to have the chance of being that unique.

50 different items each as powerful as the 2 of the most powerful items in the game? The power creep inherent in that approach would be detrimental to the game, IMO. Besides- The toon you mention is already unique using existing equipment due to his build. You don't need a flood of uber loot to accomplish that.

Talesin
10-31-2011, 11:31 AM
50 different items each as powerful as the 2 of the most powerful items in the game? The power creep inherent in that approach would be detrimental to the game, IMO. Besides- The toon you mention is already unique using existing equipment due to his build. You don't need a flood of uber loot to accomplish that.

I'm thinking you are missing the point... their would be no flood. The point of these weapons is to be super rare to the point of one or two of these being found server-wide every month or so... and I don't mean one or two of each weapon.

Yokido
11-02-2011, 09:07 PM
Keep this up, Genasi your stormtroopers are wondering where you are.
'Cause their guns are getting rusty. :3

Yokido
11-08-2011, 05:57 AM
So epic upgrades are apparently -not- going to make it for U12, which is presumably tomorrow.

Still no word from any Dev, this makes us sad pandas.
The question is still; If or when will upgrades make it to sands/von epic items, either saying they will make it or they won't would be good, or flat-out revealing the time as to when they will.

TheDearLeader
11-08-2011, 06:15 AM
I don't remember if it was a Forum Post, or a PM, but Genasi has mentioned in the past that the Sands Epic items, due to the sheer volume of them, will be done in smaller groupings than "all items at once". That said, don't expect Sands/VoN items to happen all at once, even though that would be nice.