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Xoltaz
10-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Any changes in reward loot tables for finishing elite ToD?


Like said in the release notes
Several elite raids have had their reward schemes improved to better match the difficulty of completing them

and I personaly think that elite ToD is still quite difficult to accomplish, it should be a bigger reward there than right now. At the moment I'll prefer running norm/hard because the loot on elite don't offer me any reasons to run it right now. So are there also made a few changes or just Shroud/HoX/VoD?

Shade
10-26-2011, 11:30 PM
Yea it's VERY hard and very little boost in reward chances.

I'd like to see:
Shavarath Seals (small droprate in elite only)
ToD upgrade altar:
Requires already upgraded ring:

+2 stat becomes = +3 exceptional
monk dmg burst add basic + keep burst (EG: Shock burst gains shock, Holy burst gains pure good)
Healing amp 20% becomes 20% and adds +10% amp (only other slot for this is DT, would be nice to have full amp without having DT on)

etc.

sephiroth1084
10-27-2011, 12:23 AM
Think I'd rather see a higher droprate on tomes in ToD and tokens that drop that can be traded in at, say, a 10:1 value for a selection of any ring on the loot table. ToD rings are still largely at the forefront of desired loot for endgame characters, so I don't think they necessarily need upgrades at present.

I would also like to see some completely new items added to ToD elite's chests.

If we did want to upgrade the ToD rings, though, I think adding second +1 stats would be a nice way to go, or changing the +1 stat on the rings to +3 (I imagine that the programming for upgrading slotted effects would be a nightmare).

Qhualor
10-27-2011, 01:26 AM
Think I'd rather see a higher droprate on tomes in ToD and tokens that drop that can be traded in at, say, a 10:1 value for a selection of any ring on the loot table. ToD rings are still largely at the forefront of desired loot for endgame characters, so I don't think they necessarily need upgrades at present.

I would also like to see some completely new items added to ToD elite's chests.

If we did want to upgrade the ToD rings, though, I think adding second +1 stats would be a nice way to go, or changing the +1 stat on the rings to +3 (I imagine that the programming for upgrading slotted effects would be a nightmare).

maybe not upgraded, but how about more attractive for its intended class. some rings nobody really wants or only temporarily use until they get what they want. like me, ive been wearing the occult slayer set for umpteen completions until someday when the loot gods look down on me with smiles and let me pull my beserker ring (at 77 completions so far).

AMDarkwolf
10-27-2011, 02:39 AM
I think the simple fix of adding +1 exceptional (Along WITH the current +2) would be fine. Would free up more gear slots elsewhere for something else.

And I also agree with the burst and amp idea's, both would also add value to the rings and give a VERY good reason to run tod for pretty much any class/build.

And about the 'tod rings are still best endgame loot' the issue is SOME of the rings are, yes, but the vast majority of the rings end up in some npc's garbage bin. There's only a select few rings which anyone wants. Maybe the dev's should actually take a look WHY only those certain rings are wanted, and the others are 'trash'(Then fix/adjust the 'unwanted' rings)

MsEricka
10-27-2011, 03:36 AM
Rings for Favored Souls and Artificers

Combat_Wombat
10-27-2011, 10:15 AM
don't you already get better rewards for the higher diffs in the form of more ring and +4 tome drop chances those seem reward enough the only thing that needs to be done with tod is revamping the crappy sets(cleric
*cough*) and adding in all the ones for fvs and arty pre's

elraido
10-27-2011, 10:36 AM
Rings for Favored Souls and Artificers

This. Most rings are fine....they don't need anything else added to them. Personally, I think the rate of +4 tomes should be increased, or have a .05% of a +5 tome added

sephiroth1084
10-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Honestly, what I would most prefer would be condensing all of the rings for each class into a single ring that holds all of the set bonuses. You activate a set bonus by equipping its belt or necklace partner. So, if you are a monk, you would get the Ring of Martial Prowess, which would be +6 Wis and +1 something, and would either grant the SA damage and threat reduction, fire damage, or +2 attack and damage depending on whether you were wearing the Ninja Spy, Henshin Mystic or Shintao necklaces.

This would cut the loot in the raid way down, and would make each individual ring more valuable. We might have to remove the Exclusive trait on the things, and may have to add a way to change the +1 exceptional stat on the rings as well....but it would help the incredibly diluted loot tables in there.

What other raid has 31 different pieces of raid loot? And so many of the rings are junk. Adding rings for the Favored Soul and Artificer would be reasonable, then, as it would bring the table to 12 raid items, which feels a little light...we could probably use a few completely new items added in to round things out and to promote continuing to run the raid after you have acquired your rings. Or improve the droprate on tomes by a little bit to make that a realistically attractive motivation.

stainer
10-27-2011, 12:19 PM
Honestly, what I would most prefer would be condensing all of the rings for each class into a single ring that holds all of the set bonuses. You activate a set bonus by equipping its belt or necklace partner. So, if you are a monk, you would get the Ring of Martial Prowess, which would be +6 Wis and +1 something, and would either grant the SA damage and threat reduction, fire damage, or +2 attack and damage depending on whether you were wearing the Ninja Spy, Henshin Mystic or Shintao necklaces.



That is a pretty unique idea and worth pursuing. I wonder if it is easily implemented on the code side?

Eladiun
10-27-2011, 12:51 PM
Rings for Favored Souls and Artificers

Sadly, they pretty much said those were not forthcoming.

Corwinsky
10-27-2011, 01:55 PM
don't you already get better rewards for the higher diffs in the form of more ring and +4 tome drop chances those seem reward enough

No we don't.
I've seen 7 rings drop from a normal ToD (and twice 5) and had some Hard ToDs where none dropped. For Elite always seen at least 1 but never more than 4.

For the +4 tomes maybe the chances to get one particularly in the main chest are higher but it's hard to quantify since they are so rare. Anyway it's definitely better to do a normal+opt than a hard w/o.

sephiroth1084
10-27-2011, 02:02 PM
That is a pretty unique idea and worth pursuing. I wonder if it is easily implemented on the code side?
They could use whatever coding they implemented for the Gem of Many Facets. Label each ring with the 3 (or 4 in the case of Savants) PrEs they work for.

TheIvanovFamily
10-27-2011, 02:08 PM
They could use whatever coding they implemented for the Gem of Many Facets. Label each ring with the 3 (or 4 in the case of Savants) PrEs they work for.

Or perhaps put in some sort of ring cleanser on 20th completion list or as a rare drop on elite completions that lets you remove the set bonus from a ring and replace it with another one. It's not huge, but it would be nice for people who generally run with rings with identical stat and +1 exceptionals because of the set bonuses (aka, barb rings and Shintao).

sephiroth1084
10-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Or perhaps put in some sort of ring cleanser on 20th completion list or as a rare drop on elite completions that lets you remove the set bonus from a ring and replace it with another one. It's not huge, but it would be nice for people who generally run with rings with identical stat and +1 exceptionals because of the set bonuses (aka, barb rings and Shintao).
Some additional item like that, that upgrades the rings in some way, would be nice, but moving set labels around...I don't know. That seems like it would be complicated. I agree,though, that it can be frustrating to end up with a few rings you want to wear that all have the same +1 stat, or have a useless +1 stat for you (I'm looking at you, cleric and sorcerer rings!).

Maybe something could drop that lets you add an additional +1 exceptional bonus to a ring? Perhaps it requires X number of said item that drops only on hard and/or elite? Give them to an NPC with a barter UI and choose one of 5 exceptional stats not already on the ring? Can be applied once.

patang01
10-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I just want the FvS and the Artificer rings before they start messin' with upgrades. Cleansing would be nice tho

sephiroth1084
10-27-2011, 03:06 PM
I just want the FvS and the Artificer rings before they start messin' with upgrades. Cleansing would be nice tho
Except if they just add those rings we'll end up with a loot table of almost 40 items and no one will ever see the ring they want anyway. The 20th reward lists for ToD show around 1/3 of the available items.

Ehllie
10-28-2011, 06:51 AM
A token trade-in for the ring we want would be awesome. Something like:
The elite chest dropping the rings also gives each player 50% chance for a bta or btc amrath token, trade them for the ring you want in a barter box UI. Price could vary for all rings, like 2-3 tokens for unwanted rings such as mechanic and 10 (or a little more) for the best rings like kyosho.

Dilbon
10-28-2011, 02:36 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:

Ring of the Fighter
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Constitution
Upgradeable

Ring of the Barbarian
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Strength
Upgradeable

Ring of the Wizard
+6 Intelligence +1 Exceptional Intelligence
Upgradeable

And so on. And of course with the Incredible potential stuff too, I forgot that.

Symar-FangofLloth
10-28-2011, 04:56 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:


Or!
One ring per stat combination, and then upgrade it to any set you want.
I realize that's still a lot of rings, but you won't be lacking for the set even if you get a subpar stat combo.

aristarchus1000
10-28-2011, 05:03 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:

Ring of the Fighter
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Constitution
Upgradeable

Ring of the Barbarian
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Strength
Upgradeable

Ring of the Wizard
+6 Intelligence +1 Exceptional Intelligence
Upgradeable

And so on. And of course with the Incredible potential stuff too, I forgot that.

I like this idea. Everyone will still roll for the barb ring. :) still, it can help undilute the loot table.

Saravis
10-28-2011, 05:12 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:

Ring of the Fighter
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Constitution
Upgradeable

Ring of the Barbarian
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Strength
Upgradeable

Ring of the Wizard
+6 Intelligence +1 Exceptional Intelligence
Upgradeable

And so on. And of course with the Incredible potential stuff too, I forgot that.

/signed

and please change the sorcerer ring to give +1 exceptional charisma. What am I supposed to do with a point of dexterity?

noinfo
10-28-2011, 10:10 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:

Ring of the Fighter
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Constitution
Upgradeable

Ring of the Barbarian
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional Strength
Upgradeable

Ring of the Wizard
+6 Intelligence +1 Exceptional Intelligence
Upgradeable

And so on. And of course with the Incredible potential stuff too, I forgot that.

I would go 1 step further. The base rings drop with no class alignment. First upgrade alignes any of the stat rings to the class via some method. The second upgrade sets it to the specific PRE.
If you went with a token for setting it then having them drop randomly in end chests and as 5th rewards would be reasonalble.

Scraap
10-28-2011, 11:05 PM
I would go 1 step further. The base rings drop with no class alignment. First upgrade alignes any of the stat rings to the class via some method. The second upgrade sets it to the specific PRE.
If you went with a token for setting it then having them drop randomly in end chests and as 5th rewards would be reasonalble.

2 trophies for class, 3 more for pre, 4 more for opening up the slot would hit the 9 used now, though I'd presume that would take a bit of rework.

Atrus
10-28-2011, 11:19 PM
The upgradeable ring would be a cool idea but highly unlikely that the devs would go through the work to implement it, as it's be completely changing the entire loot mechanics of the raid.

Yalann
10-29-2011, 12:47 AM
The upgradeable ring would be a cool idea but highly unlikely that the devs would go through the work to implement it, as it's be completely changing the entire loot mechanics of the raid.

Considering that 2 classes don't have ToD rings and many of them are vastly imbalanced (shintao vs morahs or sanura for example), it is definitely time for the rings to be reviewed. New rings need to be added, the sets should only work for the correct PRE period, the PRE bonus should be craftable so there are less rings with only having base class rings, and the sets should be rebalanced while they are being redone.

Indoran
10-29-2011, 02:31 AM
Considering that 2 classes don't have ToD rings and many of them are vastly imbalanced (shintao vs morahs or sanura for example), it is definitely time for the rings to be reviewed. New rings need to be added, the sets should only work for the correct PRE period, the PRE bonus should be craftable so there are less rings with only having base class rings, and the sets should be rebalanced while they are being redone.

/not signed

Add new rings if you want

Review crappy rings (morah's I am looking at you)

But I love the way shintao works for my blitz... took me 80 runs to get it... leave it like that. (also not everybody runs a pure toon...)

If you don't like other ppl rolling for the ring you want... sorry... life is like that.

oradafu
10-29-2011, 03:52 AM
Review crappy rings (morah's I am looking at you)


You're jesting, right? A ring that grants +15 jump when it's paired with a belt that has a +30 Jump clicky for a prestige class that gets a bunch of skill points, not to mention additional skill points in jump and can usually UMD a scroll if a jump potion isn't near by...when the cap for Jump is 40 (except in Rushmoor's Castle but you need a super jump power-up to lift the cap)...and you claim it's crappy. I, sir, will not stand here and let you denigrate the thoughtful hard work that the Devs put into the effects of that ring. Please apologize.

Gadget2775
10-29-2011, 04:12 AM
Can't help myself.....

"One Ring to Rule Them All!!!"

Symar-FangofLloth
10-29-2011, 07:46 AM
/not signed


They should keep the 2-tiered set bonus effect for sure, one for anyone and a greater bonus for the proper PrE.

And they shouldn't mess with existing rings, because they'd probably break something.

Carpone
11-03-2011, 12:13 PM
Rings for Favored Souls and Artificers
While I'd love to see these rings for my FvS and Artificier, I'd rather the PrEs be flushed out first.

Kaldais
11-03-2011, 12:50 PM
Elite TOD

One ring to rule them all

One Ring:
+6 Superme Stat. +6 enhancement bonus to all stat.
+1 Superme Excep Stat. +1 Exceptional bonus to all stat.
incredible potencial.

Forgeborn
11-03-2011, 01:12 PM
The whole ring thing is just messed up, there should only be one ring per class with the ability to upgrade it with a set bonus of your choice. For example:

Ring of the Fighter
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional strength
Upgradeable

Ring of the Barbarian
+6 Strength +1 Exceptional constitution
Upgradeable

Ring of the Wizard
+6 Intelligence +1 Exceptional Intelligence
Upgradeable

And so on. And of course with the Incredible potential stuff too, I forgot that.

there, fixed it: the 'stat' for the barbarian if you look at the enhancements is constitution, not strength, and for fighter it's strength, not constitution

Of course, I don't mind the rings as they are now, except for the obvious lame set bonuses and weird stats (like, why do the sorcerer rings have STR/DEX/WIS... CON I can get, but the others.)

sephiroth1084
11-03-2011, 01:27 PM
there, fixed it: the 'stat' for the barbarian if you look at the enhancements is constitution, not strength, and for fighter it's strength, not constitution

Of course, I don't mind the rings as they are now, except for the obvious lame set bonuses and weird stats (like, why do the sorcerer rings have STR/DEX/WIS... CON I can get, but the others.)
If they changed the rings to a single one per class, I'd be in favor of using this system to determine the exceptional stat: +1 based on the ability score the class gains enhancements for. Perhaps add a ritual that changes the stat to a single alternate option for each class.
Barbarian: Con/Str
Bard: Cha/??
Cleric: Wis/Cha
Fighter: Str/Con
Monk: Wis/Dex
Paladin: Cha/Str or Con (not sure which)
Ranger: Dex/Str
Rogue: Dex/Int
Sorcerer: Cha/Con
Wizard: Int/??

WruntJunior
11-03-2011, 03:02 PM
Elite TOD

One ring to rule them all

One Ring:
+6 Superme Stat. +6 enhancement bonus to all stat.
+1 Superme Excep Stat. +1 Exceptional bonus to all stat.
incredible potencial.

I would never equip that ring over either of my tod rings on my ranger (my only toon to have a good few). Ravager set + Tempest set is too awesome for a tempest, and Ravager + Shintao is too good for anyone else, for any melee to use this ring.

Would have to make it a universal set completer too. :D

waterboytkd
11-03-2011, 03:54 PM
I would never equip that ring over either of my tod rings on my ranger (my only toon to have a good few). Ravager set + Tempest set is too awesome for a tempest, and Ravager + Shintao is too good for anyone else, for any melee to use this ring.

Would have to make it a universal set completer too. :D

Actually, monk can't take advantage of the Ravager set. And the next best belt set is FB. AND, since monk needs to care about so many abilities, they would love this ring :D

transtemporal
11-03-2011, 04:03 PM
Most rings are fine....they don't need anything else added to them.

This gave me a little laugh. Caster rings are fine are they? Cleric rings are awesome? Bard rings are fantastic? Rogue rings? All good, nothing to see here. FVS and artificer rings probably should be the top priority.

Indoran
11-03-2011, 04:27 PM
You're jesting, right? A ring that grants +15 jump when it's paired with a belt that has a +30 Jump clicky for a prestige class that gets a bunch of skill points, not to mention additional skill points in jump and can usually UMD a scroll if a jump potion isn't near by...when the cap for Jump is 40 (except in Rushmoor's Castle but you need a super jump power-up to lift the cap)...and you claim it's crappy. I, sir, will not stand here and let you denigrate the thoughtful hard work that the Devs put into the effects of that ring. Please apologize.

rofl!!!! :D


sir, you are right!

WruntJunior
11-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Actually, monk can't take advantage of the Ravager set. And the next best belt set is FB. AND, since monk needs to care about so many abilities, they would love this ring :D

You're half right. A monk will use the frenzied berserker set. The rest, you're not right for the same reason it's not right for any other toon. It's not hard to get places to put +6 and +1 exceptional stats.

The only toons that could possibly use it would be casters that don't use sets, and even then, it's not some great awesome thing for them, either.

Edit: Being able to add +2 supreme exceptional would sell me, as would counting as part of any set. But that's asking for a LOT.

Ytteri
11-03-2011, 08:27 PM
Guaranteed Seal of Shavarath from elite, guaranteed Shard of Shavarath from 20th completion, barter box in amrath the lets you swap the seal + shard + any 2 ToD rings for a new ToD ring of your choice.

treefrog1976
11-04-2011, 04:27 PM
Guaranteed Seal of Shavarath from elite, guaranteed Shard of Shavarath from 20th completion, barter box in amrath the lets you swap the seal + shard + any 2 ToD rings for a new ToD ring of your choice.

Figures... I was reading through this thread and the last post is the one that came up with the same idea I did. :D

Though I was thinking about a small percentage chance of token in end chest, with it guaranteed at 20th turn-in. Trade in token plus 2 ToD rings for ToD ring of choice. The only problem I see with this is people keeping a ring they don't need but someone else does, simply to turn it in for the one they want.

I also like the idea of a ring for each class. How about a placeholder for the ring of each class, with the +6 based on class, and the +1 exceptional of your choice when you turn in placeholder. This way a tank could even choose +1 Exceptional Charisma if they wanted for that extra point of Intim.

The downside to any changes to the system is that people who previously killed themselves to get their ring could be quite upset. Of course, it could also be a distinguishing mark, that you got your ring BEFORE they made it easier.

Shallowain
11-04-2011, 04:53 PM
well, since the upgrade mechanic already incorporates a part of the greensteel mechanic, why don't go further that path?

I propose, we get plain +6 rings with 3 upgrade slots

slot 1 will use small ingredients and lets say 2 trophies to get a list of effects like at tier 2 just scaled down to +1 exceptionals and similar weaker effects.

Slot 2 will be as is but only needs 3 trophies

slot 3 is for the set bonus, I would say combine 4 trophies, ring and other set item to apply the set bonus. you would have to get 2 of the second set items though, 1 as ingredient 1 to equip.

that would cut down the amount of rings and give a much better flexibility in slotting stuff.

I chose the amounts of trophies to stay within the 9 trophies needed now to upgrade to not unnecessarily increase the grind

WruntJunior
11-04-2011, 05:18 PM
well, since the upgrade mechanic already incorporates a part of the greensteel mechanic, why don't go further that path?

I propose, we get plain +6 rings with 3 upgrade slots

slot 1 will use small ingredients and lets say 2 trophies to get a list of effects like at tier 2 just scaled down to +1 exceptionals and similar weaker effects.

Slot 2 will be as is but only needs 3 trophies

slot 3 is for the set bonus, I would say combine 4 trophies, ring and other set item to apply the set bonus. you would have to get 2 of the second set items though, 1 as ingredient 1 to equip.

that would cut down the amount of rings and give a much better flexibility in slotting stuff.

I chose the amounts of trophies to stay within the 9 trophies needed now to upgrade to not unnecessarily increase the grind

I could get behind this. 6 rings total means pretty much 9-10 runs to complete a ring. Pretty nice for those that take 80+ runs to pull their rings, and doesn't really change it for those of us that get the Ring of the Ravager on our first run. :D

Perhaps they could do this even better by putting seals into elite, and if you get on (or a few) you can combine it with the other piece of the set, your current ring, and possibly some epic tokens of some sort to make it count as both parts of a set. That would be AWESOME, simply put.

Yan_PL
11-06-2011, 02:22 AM
Guaranteed Seal of Shavarath from elite, guaranteed Shard of Shavarath from 20th completion, barter box in amrath the lets you swap the seal + shard + any 2 ToD rings for a new ToD ring of your choice.

idea is neat at first sight. but then you see the implications. (waaait, I need 2 rings I won't use so i can reforge them into one I'm looking for. I guess i'll take the rhakir here, this wizzy must be gimp anyway if he doesn't have it by now, no point helping the gimp).

I'd rather have barter box that shows up after defeating Horoth, letting you trade Shavarath Trophies of War for rings, and +4 BtC tomes. 20 Trophies for ring, 30 trophies per tome. Trophies are of substantial value, they are BtA, and you can trade them in chest. They drop in quantities that vary by difficulty level. Which makes them good "ingredient" for the job. You still need to run ToD at least once with your character to get a ring you'd like, if you've grind the trophies with other chars.

Also, d1, d2, d3 is not the best solution for handling those drops. I'd say d1, d3, 2d2, with expected values of 1, 2, 3.
This along with added possibility of "buying" rings for trophies would seriously serve as incentive to run elite tod.

in summary:
1. change trophies of war quantity on hard from 1d2 to 1d3, on elite to 2d2
2. add Altar of Despair with barter ui that would spawn in ToD upon defeat of Horoth. On the altar, players would be able to:
buy Shavarath Belts/Necklaces for 10 Trophies of War
buy ToD rings for 20 Shavarath Trophies of War
buy +4 BtC tomes for 30 Shavarath Trophies of War
"cleanse" existing rings (give newly generated ring with Incredible power in exchange for old upgraded rings + 3 Shavarath Trophies of war)


pros of this idea:
-no new crafting ingredients added to the game, old crafting materials being reused
-rewarding players for completing notably harder higher difficulties
-adding non-random methods of +4 tome acquisition (which is reasonable, now that +3 unbound tomes were added)
-keeping the requirement of flagging, and running the quest at least once per character to get ring or +4 tome
-usage of in-chest trading promotes player interaction that involves something more than calling your groupmates a bunch of greedy morons
-luck factor still plays a large role in here, because pulling the +4 tome or the ring you're looking for from chest or n*20th completion saves you 20 valuable trophies.
-"cleansing" means generating new base ring. No hard complicated coding involved. just the barter UI designers of DDO seem to be obsessed with lately (which has it's nice sides)
-adding more use to shared bank, which is the only way to transfer BtA Trophies of War between characters, while keeping raid loot BtCoA, available only by running quest with this character.