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View Full Version : Problems with U12 "Epics"



Shade
10-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Don't be fooled by the names.

There are no epic challenges.

The so called "EPIC" ones are exactly the same as normal in nearly every way.

Proof:

- Monsters do not have epic ward.
- Minions do not have minion debuff either.
- Trap damage is not increased at all, zerg on through
- Monster damage is not increased at all
- Shrines reset every 15 mins - Real epics do not reset shrines, hell they take them out of the quests usually.
- You can re-enter. (well within 3 mins). Real epics do not allow re-entry.
- You can enter them at lvl15 (not verified, but the sign said so)
- They have no timer. Epics have 16 hour timers.

- Dungeon scaling is in full 100% effect


This is the huge one..

When any decent Clr/Fvs/Wiz/Sor can easily solo a quest because the monsters hit him for 10 damage and they have 20% of there full HP. It's not epic.

It discourages teamplay. Especially Rushmoor - You'd think maybe, oh lets split up and cover more ground - WRONG. We tried this in MANY attmepts, all ended in failure. Why: Dungeon Alert goes insane in there the moment you split. Mobs gain insane AC (which like many things here hurts melee but doesnt affect casters) , move super fast, and generally destroy you if you split. It's far more effective to stay together, or ... argh: Solo it.
In addition: The crests get handed out randomly, and invariably a player in a different section of the dungeon has that 1 quest you need to unlock the gate infront on you.

Please make the quests called "EPIC" actaully set to "Epic" difficulty. Not normal/casual.

Just disable the scaling.
The shrines shouldn't be resetting, but they don't really hurt the challenge.

Pfold
10-24-2011, 10:18 PM
Might not even get tokens/fragments. /shrug Who knows? I only killed about 30 mobs but my boredom got the better of me.

Alundaar
10-24-2011, 10:23 PM
Don't be fooled by the opening post

I challlenge you to 5★ any of them on level 25

Cause sure you can complete and get a small amont of ing's to make something epic .... but then again you can take qw people and do the first fight of echrono over and over again till someone gets an ingredent to make something epic

Its not epic to complete with one or two stars ... its epic to complete with five

Till you come up with a screen shot of that your point is moot

LeLoric
10-25-2011, 01:06 AM
It's true they aren't epic as ac works in them.

Munkenmo
10-25-2011, 01:19 AM
seems to me the biggest problem is dungeon alert.

scaling - meh, since mobs will be insta killed anyway. Least this way some melee's can enjoy the god mode that caster get.

No timer - meh, don't care for them, understand why they're there though, if this doesn't have it i won't be sad.

Re-entry - agree this should go.

lower level - good more exp = better.

15 min shrines - tbh i don't care, good groups won't need em, bad groups can take forever and slowly gear up.

I'll agree that imho some of your points are valid, some of them seem to be your personal opinion on what is and isn't epic. A lot of old raids have been made considerably harder, I really don't mind if the pendulum has swung back towards the newer players this time.

Also Epic is what the devs make it. Resistance is futile.

noinfo
10-25-2011, 01:54 AM
It's true they aren't epic as ac works in them.

About time

noinfo
10-25-2011, 01:57 AM
Just disable the scaling.
The shrines shouldn't be resetting, but they don't really hurt the challenge.

I would have to agree if its Epic then re-entry should be a no go and especially scaling has to go.

Alundaar
10-25-2011, 04:34 AM
it's only re-entry for 3 min after the quest starts up... what can you do in 3 min? after going into a quest la-de-da-ing for 1 min recalling and doing something outside for 30 sec before the window closes?

get 20 sp back? hardly something to whine about.

patang01
10-25-2011, 05:43 AM
The challenge system isn't really the same kind of quests with difficulty either. It's a hybrid that needs a lot of work.

Personally I wish they replaced a lot of different quests with a scaling level system like this, rather than making this beat the clock type timed system. Not the storyline type quests but everything else. That way they would be played more during a TR run.

The XP in these challenge quests definately need work. As it is now I can't for the life of me see anyone running these on anything but level 20's. It's just not worth the time and effort.

Eladiun
10-25-2011, 08:53 AM
The challenge system is obviously designed for people who have 20-30 minutes to play and want a grab and go type quest not everything in this game needs to be a 2 hour Odyssey.

Shade
10-25-2011, 08:58 AM
The challenge system is obviously designed for people who have 20-30 minutes to play and want a grab and go type quest not everything in this game needs to be a 2 hour Odyssey.

um, fixing a bug in a -FIXED TIME LIMIT- quest, would not change there duration in any way.

Maybe actaully run them before making a comment?

Far as the casual players saying "woot" i can has moar easy:
Fixing this bug would also make the challenges EASIER for casual players...

Kmnh
10-25-2011, 09:03 AM
Are there any epics quests in the game? I have not seen one since Update 9


At least they fixed the epic raids

mystafyi
10-25-2011, 09:08 AM
Are there any epics quests in the game? I have not seen one since Update 9


At least they fixed the epic raids

not quests, but they did have 2 epic raids in U11

gloopygloop
10-25-2011, 09:36 AM
um, fixing a bug in a -FIXED TIME LIMIT- quest, would not change there duration in any way.

Maybe actaully run them before making a comment?

Far as the casual players saying "woot" i can has moar easy:
Fixing this bug would also make the challenges EASIER for casual players...

What bug were you talking about in the OP, then? I did not see any mention of a bug. Did I just miss it?

Shade
10-25-2011, 09:40 AM
Could you please explain to me how making normal mobs into epics mobs makes the grind easier for pugs?

Great, everyone reads the title and makes a reply without reading the post.

1. I never mentioned anything changing the monsters what so ever. Fixing the difficulty setting bug won't directly impact the monsters. Or make them "epic".

2. Disabling scaling will reduce the monster hitpoints, saves, ac and damage taken for full groups. This is because scaling goes above 100% at 5/6 party members. "Pugs" generally dont try to shortman epics. So pugs would get 4 man scaling, in a 6man group, reducing difficulty.

It will only make it harder for the uber geared solo casters who can handle epic monsters solo anyways.

Kobold island is basically impossible to solo anyways.
Rushmoor is very soloable, but not by casual players or pugs, they will need party abilities. But by veteran casters.

Tolero
10-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Less cat fighting, more feedbacking. Thanks.

A second trip in this thread will probably result in people sitting in the corner to think about what they did *tisk tisk*

MrWizard
10-25-2011, 02:36 PM
for many hardcore players who are fully epic geared, have tons of unique or festival items, and incredible knowledge of the game and its mechanics I can see epics like this being less of a challenge.

however, take someone who does not have a fully geared toon, with no epic gear, without all the extras piled up from years of play (like cookies and such)...and I guarantee it is a challenge that might not be won.

I agree content needs to be challenging for the long standing loyal hardcore player base, but the higher the bar the more 'impossible' it is for those who are not long time hardcore players.

Face it, no matter how 'challenging' it is, long time hard core players will figure it out and it will become rote very quickly for them.

Why penalize the rest of the player base for a weeks challenge for the hardcore players? People play for a challenge yes, but they play to have fun.

Hardcore players should take a look at the restrictions of role playing styles and apply them to the dungeons they enter to make them challenging.
Honestly I think it is a good idea to bring the challenge up a notch.


hardcore player rules, for hardcore guilds only

Just some ideas that should be used for a 'hardcore' guild, akin to rules of 'role playing guilds'


1) No use of shrines is allowed. Optional easy path = Allow use of rez shrines
2) Cannot use traps to kill enemies, accidents can happen but kill a named this way and party must leave dungeon and reset.

3) Casters cannot use insta-kill spells for any reason

4) Melee cannot use insta-kill weapons for any reason (vorpal, etc). Enhancements by class are not included

5) Only elite runs. Hard if cannot open elite but this should be rare. If level 20, Epic only option.

6) Must do optionals, all of them.
This prevents sneaking by mobs or sections for a quick completion, forcing conquest.
Obviously dungeons requiring sneaking are part of the optionals.
Alternatively you can opt for major optionals only, but must get a min. of aggression bonus.

7) Cannot use mana pots, it would not be a challenge

8) Cannot use festival cookies or ddostore items of like nature. The challenge is your party must supply it.

9) Absolutely no ship buffs, that is a lame easy button.

10) Cannot use safe spots or known/unknown quirky/buggy AI to battle an opponent.

11) should be without saying, but no ddostore repair, etc guys brought into a dungeon.


Breaking rules means player must leave quest and no new player can take place. In case of the party doing some rule breaking,
or 'had to use rest shrine' type of thing, party must leave and reset immediately and call it a failed run.

MrkGrismer
10-25-2011, 02:45 PM
I just don't see how it would be so difficult to add the c/n/h/e to the challenges, and the epic rules to the epic ones. Maybe it would be super-difficult but it would be nice to at least see if the devs are investigating it.

I certainly do not see how adding those difficulties would be a negative in anyway, it would all be 'win-win'.

etelan
11-02-2011, 07:52 AM
Just disable the scaling.
The shrines shouldn't be resetting, but they don't really hurt the challenge.

In general I think if challenges have their own unique perks to appeal to other types of gameplay that's okay, but I agree that these two simple things should make it in for U12.