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View Full Version : My Thoughts On The Scroll Trade



S1M0N5
10-24-2011, 09:03 AM
Let me start by saying that I am not new to the arguments being presented on this topic, be it for or against. I have been reading the forums for the past couple days and have even posted some screen shots of the trade system for Sands Scrolls.

That having been said......

I just don't fully understand the issues against this. I have read the arguments and, quite frankly, they are poor ones. Often they have to do with the new system will "devalue" the hard to find, or more specifically, the more sought after scrolls and while there is a valid basis for this with regards to supply and demand, that is not the focus of the arguments. So far the focus of the arguments, even if it is an underlying focus, is that the players that have accumulated a substantial number of these sought after scrolls (Marilith Cain Scrolls appear to be the primary here) and use them as a form of alternate currency from platinum (most likely due to the ~4.2 Million cap) and are now afraid that their main source of income is going to be worthless. Unfortunately this just isn't the case. While the creation of a "Trade-Up" system will lower the value of these scrolls, it will not eliminate it.

Now I'm sure this is the part where those against this new system will already be hitting the reply to post button and attempting to prove me wrong. Go ahead, have fun with that.

Moving on.... Now while the value of the harder to get scrolls will be lowered, the value of the "Trash" scrolls will go up, very slightly. Notice I say very slightly. This is because these scrolls will be worth a little bit more to the players that have no desire to run Sands quests for a few weeks just to farm scrolls, will be very happy to purchase those "Trash" scrolls to get that one scroll they need for their item. Now while the value of these scrolls will most likely not go up to a point that it will offset the drop in value of the harder to get scrolls, it will still maintain a viable and lucrative trade economy for Sands scrolls.

Here comes the part that will really drive some of you nuts....

In my very humble opinion, this system of trade should exist for ALL ingredients. Yes ALL. Lets be honest here, this system already exists for Cannith Crafting and now for Sands scrolls, there is no reason why this cannot, or should not exist for everything else. I'm talking everything here people, Seals, Shards, Scrolls, Shroud, Cannith (Alchemical), you name it, if it requires multiple ingredients in varying numbers then you should be able to trade X amount of one into Y amount of another. Now to be fair I feel that the ammount of X vs. the amount of Y should be reasonable. I don't like that it is "3 of ANY Scroll" if you're going to make it ANY Scroll/Item make it 5:1 or 10:1, even the numbers out a bit. If you are set at a 3:1 ratio them make it 3 of ONE type, not ANY. This maintains stability in the trade system while at the same time allowing players to choose if they want to "Grind" or not.

Speaking of grinding....

I have read several posts stating that DDO is not a "Grinding" game, that it is supposed to be played for the content. While I personally agree that the content of the game and playing new quests/adventures is far more entertaining that grinding for an item, the items in the game ARE content. Honestly, there are quests that I (and others, I'm sure) would never run if it wasn't for the items that it could drop, that's part of the game, getting that cool awesome item that does XYZ cool things. It's the same reason people go buy fast sports cars, and big screen TVs, we want the cool stuff. But sometimes the cool stuff just isn't cool enough when the grind to get it is so long and hard. Enter the player like me, loves to run quests and has no issue grinding a bit for some nice items, but gets bored after a while and would rather just move on and not bother with it if it's going to be that much of a pain in the ass. Now that same type of player may run Sands or Shroud or whatever a few dozen times to get some drops but after that it just starts to wear on you. I would like to be able to take the items I did get from that little bit of grinding and "Trade-Up" to the items I need to make whatever other item it is that I don't have, and I have no issues buying some items out of the AH or via trade chat to be able to do this. So you see now we are back to the trade economy and noticing that just because you can trade-up items, that doesn't mean that there will be a massive destabilization of the DDO trade economy.

On another note....

To all of you that have made the argument that this game isn't about grinding, but rather about the content. Why haven't I seen any posts (If there are some they are past the first page and I didn't see them, deal with it) that criticize the new challenge quests in House Cannith for being just that, grinding quests? Because that's all they are, grinding quests. You go in, complete an objective, get a small amount of experience (and if you're 20 then it doesn't matter), no actual loot, and a bunch of ingredients that you then trade in for some varied level of specific item. Oh, did I mention that you have to do this over and over and over again? Not kidding, if ever there was something that was specifically "Grinding" in this game, it's the new Challenge Quests. Now personally I have no issues with them, they are fun and entertaining and I don't mind running them, but if you are going to make the argument that the trade system should be in this game because it's not a grinding game, then you have to argue against the Challenge Quests, because that's all they are.

So, to summarize (TL;DR Version):

The new trade system for scrolls is fine, in fact its great and needs to be implemented for everything. While the value of some items may drop, the value of others will rise and a nice middle ground will be found that still allows for a viable trade economy/system for these ingredients/items.

Now I'm sure that there will be a lot of fire and heat involved with this post, but honestly I don't care, and it really doesn't matter in the long run. In all reality, Turbine will implement the system that it feels will be the most attractive to the majority of players and retain customers and earn new ones. While our opinion in the matter is important and I am sure it is considered, the bottom line is what's overall best for Turbine as a company and the game community as a whole. Unfortunately, in my opinion, those of you that have stacked your Marilith Cain Scrolls as a source of income are in the minority in this regard and are just plain out of luck. Time to deal with it, move on and just play the game.

Good Gaming!
-Simon

stretchcore
10-24-2011, 09:42 AM
Seems legit to me. Would actually see more people doing epic/raid runs for ingredients rather than being put off by the grind. Gianthold has this sort of system in place for relics, and it's made it very accessible. The more people play the harder quests in ddo, the more likely we are to find new players becoming more skilled, and better geared as well.
+1, and /signed.

LightBear
10-24-2011, 11:39 AM
Apparently people have two meanings for "Grinding" when it comes to gaming (esp. DDO), one where there is chance involved and one where there isn't.

Players have been complaining about the chance mechanism in DDO from the start and praising the defs whenever they did something that gave a guaranteed end reward.

Edit:
While the new trade system for scrolls isn't a garantee that you'll get one to begin with it still is a huge leap towards the right direction.

maddmatt70
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Two things: 1. Pulling random desert scroll is alot less fun for players then pulling a scroll of the marilith chain. The same can be said for pulling a lg devil scale, etc. People actually enjoy/have fun when loot has a different value. I have been playing this game along time and it is pretty obvious that people enjoy these sorts of things and get all superstitious and rub their four leaf clover or say things like I am "loot hot" or etc. Your generic loot idea makes the game boring for those people.
2. I think you are overstating the whole primary complaint is that this disrupts market economics thing. Alot of people also dislike the fact that it trivialized all the grind/effort they put into getting the scrolls in the first place. Killing mobs over and over takes time and some skill as well. This change will triviliazes that work that so many people put into getting scrolls.

S1M0N5
10-24-2011, 12:25 PM
My responses in RED:


Two things: 1. Pulling random desert scroll is alot less fun for players then pulling a scroll of the marilith chain. The same can be said for pulling a lg devil scale, etc. People actually enjoy/have fun when loot has a different value. I have been playing this game along time and it is pretty obvious that people enjoy these sorts of things and get all superstitious and rub their four leaf clover or say things like I am "loot hot" or etc. Your generic loot idea makes the game boring for those people.

While I agree with the joy received from pulling a rare item from a quest/raid the reverse can be true as well. When all you pull is trash then you feel like all that hard work you put in to attempt to get a good pull was wasted because of all the bad stuff you got, now while that makes the joy of pulling good loot higher due to the extreme rarity of the item, if the trash loot can be useful then it feels like less of a waste of time and players won't get as bored of the grind as soon, because they are pulling useful loot more often.


2. I think you are overstating the whole primary complaint is that this disrupts market economics thing. Alot of people also dislike the fact that it trivialized all the grind/effort they put into getting the scrolls in the first place. Killing mobs over and over takes time and some skill as well. This change will triviliazes that work that so many people put into getting scrolls.

How a player chooses to play the game is entirely up to them, so if they choose to grind for scrolls that they may or may not get and kill hundreds or thousands of mobs for that one scroll, that is their choice, and this system doesn't change that. Players will still go and kill hundreds of mobs to get the items, if they choose to play that way. All this system does is make it so that players that don't want to go through that won't have to, just to have epic gear.




The only point I was really trying to make with this post is that it really won't make that much of a difference on play style, the players that want to and maybe even enjoy grinding for those items will still be able to, in fact they will be the supply to the AH and trade chats for those players that don't want to do that grind. The economy stays intact and everyone gets what they are looking for, sometimes its for the price of plat, and other times it's for the price of time.

Good Gaming!
-Simon

S1M0N5
10-24-2011, 12:31 PM
Apparently people have two meanings for "Grinding" when it comes to gaming (esp. DDO), one where there is chance involved and one where there isn't.

Players have been complaining about the chance mechanism in DDO from the start and praising the defs whenever they did something that gave a guaranteed end reward.

Edit:
While the new trade system for scrolls isn't a garantee that you'll get one to begin with it still is a huge leap towards the right direction.

As far as the grinding I wasn't exactly clear in my definition I suppose, sorry about that. I view "Grinding" as any action repeated over and over to achieve a singular goal, be it running the same quest chain five or six times for experience or loot, it's all grinding. Grinding just happens in varying amounts, from the casual grind to get some experience to the weeks of mob killing to get one scroll. Also this new system doesn't guerentee a reward, you still have to get the items you need, and while you could just buy them, in all likelihood you are still going to have to be grinding a bit to get the plat to pull that off, so it works out. This system just allows for the possibility of quicker rewards for the same amount, or less, of work.

Good Gaming!
-Simon