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Combat_Wombat
10-23-2011, 11:25 PM
This thread is about improving existing PRE's that have lost some of their use and or power over the years. Not about PREs you want added, save it for another thread please :)

Tempest III: full off-hand strength bonus when wielding light weapons(dagger, shortsword, rapier) anything finesse applies to, and 10% non-stacking melee alacrity when dual-wielding

Defender of Siberys II: Tower Shield Proficiency

Hunter of the Dead III: light damage applies to undead that make a Will save against being destroyed outright and to all creatures instead of just undead that make a save.

Kensai III: -5 seconds to all combat abilities cooldowns except stunning fist which is -1 second.

Galeria
10-23-2011, 11:33 PM
I was thinking this was another marriage proposal...

WruntJunior
10-24-2011, 05:43 AM
Tempest III: full off-hand strength bonus when wielding light weapons(dagger, shortsword, rapier) anything finesse applies to, and 10% non-stacking melee alacrity when dual-wielding


If I'm reading this right, this would add very little to most tempests (the only ones benefiting being rapier-wielders). I'd say for tempest III, off-hand weapons always get full str, and possibly upping the doublestrike to 10%, and/or applying the doublestrike to the offhand. I think the 10% (stacking) melee alacrity would be a better tempest capstone, as it would make me seriously consider going pure on my exploiter ranger (which as of now I would never consider).

That's just my input on the only one I'm really familiar with, which is tempest III.

Dilbon
10-24-2011, 07:08 AM
If I'm reading this right, this would add very little to most tempests (the only ones benefiting being rapier-wielders).

That would make more tempests wield pointy weapons then. And that would be nice. Anything to stop people using khopeshes.

WruntJunior
10-24-2011, 12:02 PM
Aside from the weapon argument (longswords are actually my favorite, and I'm sad they're not very good weapons in DDO), all that change would do is shoehorn tempest rangers into rapiers being most effective, just changing the best weapon problem, not fixing it.

I'd rather see tempest give a reason to go tempest 3 (and a capstone that would make me seriously consider going pure, but that's a different topic), not something to push me the rest of the way towards going 12/7/1 on my ranger (as I'm already deeply considering already).

Back on topic, I could get behind the DoS and kensai changes, though I'm not familiar at all with HotD to know about that.

Combat_Wombat
10-25-2011, 07:41 PM
The fact that so many people feel using only one type of weapon is the only way to proceed should be evidence enough that a change needs to be made. The tempest change wouldn't hurt kopesh users in fact it might not even knock them off the top spot someone would have to run the numbers but it would make allot more options attractive which can only be good for the game.

DragonTroy
10-25-2011, 07:51 PM
This thread is about improving existing PRE's that have lost some of their use and or power over the years. Not about PREs you want added, save it for another thread please :)

Tempest III: full off-hand strength bonus when wielding light weapons(dagger, shortsword, rapier) anything finesse applies to, and 10% non-stacking melee alacrity when dual-wielding

Defender of Siberys II: Tower Shield Proficiency

Hunter of the Dead III: light damage applies to undead that make a Will save against being destroyed outright and to all creatures instead of just undead that make a save.

Kensai III: -5 seconds to all combat abilities cooldowns except stunning fist which is -1 second.

Tempest: 1st off, rapiers are one handed weapons, not light weapons, whether finesse applies to them or not. 2ndly, i dont see this helping anyone, as i dont think there is a single tempest that couldnt fit in OTWF, and the melee alacrity is meh at best

Defender: why would you give them a feat that some use to qualify for defender I?

kensai: this one i like, mainly because i think fighters are supposed to be good at tactics, and yet i very rarely see one use more than either stunning blow or improved sunder. this is a good thing

HotD: this doesnt fit with the prestige at all, and it is also worded very confusingly

Combat_Wombat
10-25-2011, 09:33 PM
Tempest: 1st off, rapiers are one handed weapons, not light weapons, whether finesse applies to them or not. 2ndly, i dont see this helping anyone, as i dont think there is a single tempest that couldnt fit in OTWF, and the melee alacrity is meh at best

correct yes they aren't light weapons doesn't really change what I said and what does OTWF have to do with anything there?



Defender: why would you give them a feat that some use to qualify for defender I?


because paladin defenders are shafted by all of the feat changes turbine has made to tanking and have lost allot of ground against their stalwart defender counterparts. i think free tower shield proficiency is the least of a bone we could throw them



HotD: this doesnt fit with the prestige at all, and it is also worded very confusingly

well theres not allot to work with there they need a general dps increase to make them even remotely viable since 98% of end game has no benefit from being a hotd hell look at kotc its great against outsiders and thats maybe half the end game content but its still widly considered useless since even against those mobs barbs tend to out dps them anyways and yes it was worded badly

DragonTroy
10-25-2011, 10:10 PM
correct yes they aren't light weapons doesn't really change what I said and what does OTWF have to do with anything there?

it does change what you said, you said 'full off-hand strength bonus when wielding light weapons' and a rapier isn't a light weapon, so even rapier users wouldn't benefit from this change

i mentioned OTWF because why would anyone concerned about their DPS use a light weapon(weaker damage dice and bad critical profile) when they can use an essentially open feat slot so they can use a better weapon(Khopesh, Scimitar, Dwarven War Axe) ?


because paladin defenders are shafted by all of the feat changes turbine has made to tanking and have lost allot of ground against their stalwart defender counterparts. i think free tower shield proficiency is the least of a bone we could throw them

it wouldn't be 'free' because many people that attempt to make paladin tanks splash two levels of fighter and gain tower shield proficiency as well as two feats they can out towards their goals for the character. giving them this would be as useful gaining stunning fist from shintao 2


well theres not allot to work with there they need a general dps increase to make them even remotely viable since 98% of end game has no benefit from being a hotd hell look at kotc its great against outsiders and thats maybe half the end game content but its still widly considered useless since even against those mobs barbs tend to out dps them anyways and yes it was worded badly

ill agree, HotD is used on healing amp builds, and... nothing else. they certainly need something. but giving them an ability to just smack any trash mob in the game and put it in a save or die scenario seems too powerful, and just doesn't fit

butlerfamilywa
10-25-2011, 10:43 PM
it wouldn't be 'free' because many people that attempt to make paladin tanks splash two levels of fighter and gain tower shield proficiency as well as two feats they can out towards their goals for the character. giving them this would be as useful gaining stunning fist from shintao 2


Real Paladins have UMD, and use Master's Touch scroll's to gain Tower Shield Proficiency... yes, it does work.

Grenada
10-25-2011, 10:46 PM
Mechanic II: Can now dual wield crossbows.

LeLoric
10-25-2011, 10:48 PM
ill agree, HotD is used on healing amp builds, and... nothing else. they certainly need something. but giving them an ability to just smack any trash mob in the game and put it in a save or die scenario seems too powerful, and just doesn't fit

I think he meant to have the light dmg work on all mobs and have undead further have a save or die. I could get behind this but only if the save or die was limited to nat 20 or similar.