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KookieKobold
10-19-2011, 04:11 PM
Dr. Rushmore and his band of wanted criminals have suddenly appeared with their Mansion!

Can you find them in time?


Feel free to leave feedback and discuss the Challenge Dr. Rushmore's Mansion: Behind the Door in this thread.

Additionally, Please take the time to fill out this (http://questionpro.com/t/AG2vGZLzWt) survey.

Grosbeak07
10-19-2011, 05:25 PM
I ran this with a level 4 Barbarian Half-Orc + a level 4 hireling.

I never saw one of the bosses and as such did not complete. I found the objectives a little vague at first, but got the idea quickly after playing a bit.

I found this quest rather empty to an extent, it seemed I spent most of my time running down near empty hallways, smashing a few boxes and killing a few mobs (which look great).

Enjoyed the "power ups" and it seems like it would be a great quest to run with a few friends where you could spread out and zerg, zerg, zerg.

However, unless the xp is significantly raised, I really don't see people running this other than for novelty.

Symar-FangofLloth
10-19-2011, 05:26 PM
Ran it on a level 4 freshly brewed artificer, at level 4, solo.
Horribly died at the 4th gate, the force and blade traps in front of it.
16 gates, really? Wow... although I'd imagine a party could zerg through a lot of it, and split up to grab the crests. Also, no idea where any of the other objectives were, I'm assuming they're deeper in.

SirShen
10-19-2011, 07:39 PM
Did this as a level 4 Arty fresh from the ship. Just way to hard to solo and the xp for 15mins is rubbish.

Was very lucky on my 3rd run and got the right crests got to kill a boss but then died right after by earth ele earth grab. They monsters cast alot of nasty spells for level 4. Hold, ray. Im sure as a TR id have no problems but fresh off the boat its nasty for a level 4 to run it at level.

sirgog
10-19-2011, 07:57 PM
Took a totally ungeared level 20 (GM powerlevelled, no items other than classic Sword of Shadow and some +4-+6 stat items, no Fortification) in there with a level 20 Bard hireling. The character was probably about as effective as a level 15 character in sensible gear. Entered on level 15.

Mobs seemed appropriate. But finding crests and navigating the vast space was just too much for the time limit. Most of my time wasn't spent in combat, it was spent covering ground.

I also timed out without seeing a boss, although I can see that being less of an issue in a full group.

Xionanx
10-19-2011, 08:24 PM
I also attempted this at Level 4 Solo with a "Fresh off the boat" artificer, it took roughly 3 minutes to "get the idea" of whats going on in the quest, and afterwards it was a simple matter of "Backspacing" around to find the crests and bee lining to them.

I like the idea of the quest however I see some "issues"

A) It GREATLY favors "Haste" and movement speed increases, which at level 4 aren't exactly available in abundance
B) Jump is REQUIRED to succeed as there are some crests that are impossible to get if you dont have jump.
C) Having ROGUE skills is also required to succeed.

So far it seems the best strategy from my 1 attempt:p would be to split up and zerg with at least 1 Rogue Skill user hitting all the trapped and locked areas, which is "Probably" the intent of the quest hence is name "Dr. Rush More" which IMO is a great play on words for the quest.

This is going to be a MAJOR "Self Sufficient" ZERG quest, and with the limited number of attempts allowed per day I cant see people being willing to "Suffer" having clueless noobs running it with them who might cause a failure.

My advice is to, at least at lower levels, increase the bonus time added for opening doors since the lack of haste and other movement speed enhancers might be an issue. However I'll need further testing in a group before I can make any solid recommendations.

Produktion_Malphunktion
10-19-2011, 11:16 PM
I also attempted this at Level 4 Solo with a "Fresh off the boat" artificer, it took roughly 3 minutes to "get the idea" of whats going on in the quest, and afterwards it was a simple matter of "Backspacing" around to find the crests and bee lining to them.

I like the idea of the quest however I see some "issues"

A) It GREATLY favors "Haste" and movement speed increases, which at level 4 aren't exactly available in abundance
B) Jump is REQUIRED to succeed as there are some crests that are impossible to get if you dont have jump.
C) Having ROGUE skills is also required to succeed.

So far it seems the best strategy from my 1 attempt:p would be to split up and zerg with at least 1 Rogue Skill user hitting all the trapped and locked areas, which is "Probably" the intent of the quest hence is name "Dr. Rush More" which IMO is a great play on words for the quest.

This is going to be a MAJOR "Self Sufficient" ZERG quest, and with the limited number of attempts allowed per day I cant see people being willing to "Suffer" having clueless noobs running it with them who might cause a failure.

My advice is to, at least at lower levels, increase the bonus time added for opening doors since the lack of haste and other movement speed enhancers might be an issue. However I'll need further testing in a group before I can make any solid recommendations.

There are haste powerups in the level
the last two are not true at all.
Any breakable can drop a crest.

Xionanx
10-20-2011, 12:14 AM
There are haste powerups in the level
the last two are not true at all.
Any breakable can drop a crest.

Yeah, after running it three more times it appears that:

Monsters drop crests on death.
Crates "rarely" drop crests (but I tend to not waste time breaking them on my arti since XBOW is a SLOW option to break with).
There are crests all over the freaking place, on ledges, in the water, etc.:p

So I had 2 successful runs out of 5, both of which were done solo. My first success I wasted a LOT of time disarming traps and screwing around and managed to get to "The Girlfriend" with 2 minutes left and killed her. My second successful attempt I was able to get to her with 9 minutes left (ignored traps entirely, just ran thru them). I then backtracked and ended up in a puzzle room, which even though I had enough crests to put fill the slots, niether door opened (even though one door appeared to be just another path back to the girlfriend). I then wasted roughly 6 minutes trying to do the puzzle thinking it would open the door, I managed to get all but 1 crest from the puzzle before time ran out.

From what I can see of this quest, getting ALL 16 doors is going to be a decent achievement. I'm liking what I'm seeing, even at level 4 with NO speed boosts at all it can be completed once you "know" what your doing and have a reasonable idea of the map layout.

EDIT: OK, made a few more attempts and I'm starting to like this quest less and less. There is a frequency of hitting "dead ends" too often, even though I make every effort to grab every crest I can find I often find myself hitting doors that need 4 wolf or 2-3 of something else. This is usually if you go towards the Banner Hall or the Armory first, I end up dead ending. So far the only path that I have any success with repeatedly is going for the Girlfriend Via the backdoor route.

Ashbinder
10-20-2011, 07:03 AM
So far the only path that I have any success with repeatedly is going for the Girlfriend Via the backdoor route.

Giggity giggity!

Xionanx
10-20-2011, 07:14 AM
Giggity giggity!

You know, I'm fairly certain they did that on purpose.

Veriden
10-20-2011, 08:51 AM
frankly the random amount of power ups and crests are far too few. Out of 10 runs one with one other person in the party I've had 1 successful run for the orc whos ac is waaay to high don't think I landed a single real hit on him at level four.

I really dislike random b./c it bases on your luck and there are many people like myself whom are not lucky and spend the first 10 minutes looking high and low and have 2 crests, two incorrect crests.

bradleyforrest
10-20-2011, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I agree with the "too few" front. I've only ever found crests that were already on the ground and a single haste powerup. No crates or mobs dropped crests for me at all. I was able to open 2 doors but couldn't get anywhere else because I just wasn't finding crests.

quijenoth
10-20-2011, 11:04 AM
zone is too big! - the whole scale of the dungeon just feels wrong. i feel like alice in wonderland after drinking the "DRINK ME" vial.

my suggestion would be to scale the map down and reduce the timer to fit.

The bathrooms where a nice touch but again those urinals looked like they where made for the stormreaver!

Scraap
10-21-2011, 01:49 AM
Bad reward progression, and an excellent example of the shortcomings of the map UI.

Best way I can put it is it suffers from the Coyle Syndrome. It doesn't much matter if you've spent 14 minutes doing it, if they get away at minute 14.59. (Assuming they even move. Spent so long looking for crests from breakables and mobs to get through a door, that the only red named I did manage to stumble into was the Spider behind a hidden wall.)

Perhaps a very minor reward for how many crests you manage to collect would serve to give some sense of progression, rather than the seemingly pure pass/fail? (Disclaimer: I only spent an hour and a half beating my head against the wall of a 15 minute quest, so hey, maybe that's what you thought we wanted, or there's some special trick my tired brain just was not picking up on. Wouldn't be the first time.)

oradafu
10-21-2011, 01:59 AM
I did this quest on a level 14 Fighter and just a healer hireling. I didn't much care for the quest (or the Moving variation). Only completed it once.

When I did the level 14 version (which I did about 4 or 5 times), the crests didn't seem to drop for me on kills and only a handful from crates. Additionally, I never had a Power-up drop in the level 14 version. I did it again on level 10 and 12 where I had no problems with the crests or power-up dropping (although it seems Scorpion seems to drop about 80% of the time).

From what I can gather, the three "hardest" things about the quest was the strict time limit (as intended), the lack of proper crests dropping and the Air Elementals. So I think this quest goes firmly into the same vein as the Crystal Cove, being able to beat the quest lays more on luck than anything else. Much like a good group could fail miserably when the layout in the Cove was bad (such as few purples popping up), this quest will cause many failures with groups when the proper crests don't drop.

On the positive side, I liked the way the quest looked. I like the high walls in the castle and lots of room to move around. I like the phantom mobs, simple but effective...and what I expected Invisible Stalkers to look like.

Xionanx
10-21-2011, 03:44 AM
Having done this a few more times I'm going to make some suggestions to make this quest "Doable", because as it is currently is garbage:

First get rid of the crests for opening doors, the fact that the quest seems to encourage splitting up and zerging but at the same time REQUIRING the person with the right crests to be at X door is just ********. Then you look at the fact that you dont always get the right crests, and then people will "Randomly" get crests in their inventory on kills so no-one will know who has what crest for what door. Its a nightmare and NOT A FUN NIGHTMARE. I suggest replacing them with "Keys" that appear very much like the "Parts" do in Kobold Choas, and are usable by ALL party members. This will also allow you set differing "Key" amounts for every door, some doors require 1, some 2, some 3, so on and so forth. This will A) eliminate the FAILURES due to random crests dropping and not having the right crest, and B) allow players to split up more effectively to cover more ground.

Second you NEED to up the XP for this quest because it has the POTENTIAL to be a fairly long quest 13 Minutes bases + 2 minutes a door x16 doors = 45 minutes. For the amount of XP this quest is giving I cant and I doubt anyone else can justify being in there for 45 minutes.

Third you NEED to add random loot chests to it, yeah SOME party members wont get the loot because they split off to complete different objectives, but it will certainly make running it a lot more worthwhile.

Really, I would not put this quest on live in its current state because it just reeks of angry mobs *****ing about it and eventually building a reputation of outright hate. We dont want another three barrel cove/threnal situation where people just refuse to even go there..

Shade
10-21-2011, 07:11 AM
Personally I enjoy the random element of the crests being in crates/monsters..

But it does cause some major frusteration when you get to a required door, and have fully cleared out all nearby areas but the crest needed simply did not drop.. Seems the crests drops from some things are fully random, and there was not much sanity checking to ensure all doors are openable.

Plus one major pet peeve: Some of the crests come out of the um dunno what there called "machines" you put tokens in. And tokens at least on most days are 100% UNAVAILABLE. So there could well be a crest in the machine, but because its not "friday" or "sunday" you cant get it..
And no, telling me to go the DDO store and pay a dollar to maybe, perhaps possible get a crest that maybe perhaps might get me somewhere is not fun. Please remove the crests from the machiens, have them be silly buffs only. That or have tokens drop from teh bosses.

Suggestions to fix:
- The randomness need not be removed.. Just an alternative method should be added.. Like in schemes of the enemy - each section had multiple ways to proceed, as should this.

1. Random luck - crests as now.
2. BRUTE FORCE. 90% Doors can be smashed. Give them enough hitpoints to really slow us down, but possible with good DPS. On epic i'd suggest 15,000 HP per door, 90% fortification, 200% vulnerability to fire. Orange named so they can't be imploaded.
3. --VERY-- advanced lockpicking, at select doors. Say about 50% doors can be picked, but the DCs should require a pure mechanic rogue. EG: ~90-100 DC on Epic 25. High enough that they cannot be knocked at any lvl.

Just set the final boss doors to be crest required, so we can choose to save crests for those doors, and bruteforce/pick others.

Overall I like this challenge tho, just needs tweaks on the random element.

One thing I want MORE random:
Buff orbs out of crates.. seems like you get a few in the early rooms, then none in the later rooms. More in later rooms and more random! Random durations would be fun too, say 1-3mins instead of 1 min only.

PS Our stats:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1417/rushmoor.jpg
completed, but not well. 2 stars.
Keep in mind this was a group of fairly skilled lvl20s on a lvl15 quest zerging like madmen to get everything done, and we barely got halfway. Mainly due to not being able to open a lot of doors despite being fairly thorough in our searches.

Oh yea loot:
Add chests to all bosses. Lack of loot is not fun.

Also, please don't kick us from the quest after the timers up, thats rather mean. Instead just lock all the gates permanently. at the timer end. So we can finish looting and look around, but cant proceed further.

FlimsyFirewood
10-21-2011, 09:13 AM
You know, I'm fairly certain they did that on purpose.

I swear it was not so. Didn't even think of it at the time. Maybe it was... subliminal?

UrbanPyro
10-21-2011, 06:14 PM
Deleted.

PNellesen
10-21-2011, 07:24 PM
But finding crests and navigating the vast space was just too much for the time limit. Most of my time wasn't spent in combat, it was spent covering ground.


Same here, but on my 19C/1F that I was able to get copied over (so pretty much fully geared except he couldn't equip any of his guild stuff). I went in at level 20, and I did manage to find a boss, but ran out of time before I could take him down, and he seemed to have really good self-healing (it was some kind of Kobold thing, I didn't look at his name closely though). I had stacked DP on him for a couple minutes and had a Blade Barrier going as well but barely put a dent in his HP.

Edit - ran it a 2nd time, and found the Succubus Boss near the Bathrooms with about 8 minutes on the clock (ran around collecting crests and opening doors to boost the time limit). Didn't have much trouble taking her down with stacked DP and constant Blade Barriers. Torc and Conc. Opp kept my SP almost full. That fight was kind of like the new Weapons Shipment - archers everywhere, but at level 20 wasn't too difficult.

Saaluta
10-22-2011, 12:19 AM
/snip

In an earlier post mentioned the desire to have more chests upon deaths of the red names. Taking in consideration that the crests take up inventory space, I could careless for vender trash polluting my inventory. Crystal Cove didn't have chests for red names, why should these red names? Also, the loot you're grinding out collectables in these Cannith Challenges should be reward enough.


I agree that we did not get chests per se for killing the red/orange named bosses in CC, but everyone in party got a quest item whether it was a port or barrels or what have you. So maybe when a boss is killed, everyone in party gets a quest item added to their inventory, like extra parchments or wolf crests(since you seem to need more of those and they didn't seem to drop often enough)

Saal :)

Shade
10-22-2011, 07:06 AM
This is nothing like crystal cove.

And the fact random loot is utter trash lately is just showing a problem with the game.

It can still drop some decent stuff, if only 0.001% tho.. Things like essences, xp potions, loot jewels, sp potions are stll of interest to me and other.

And please dont compare this to crystal cove. That was one of the most boring/buggy things I've ever seen in this game. this is a lot more fun. Theres no reason for ANYTHING ever to be like that boring event.

It should have good random random loot, ingredients for named loot, good xp, good variety of challege.. You know - thigns regular quests have. I don't see why challenges need to be a step into the dark ages of mmos.

Amber-Dawnn
10-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Giggity giggity!

I 2nd that!

Maluthion1
10-22-2011, 08:52 PM
This quest would have been quite nice and unique if I hadnt had to spend all of the time searching for crests. In my opinion the dungeon should either be easier to navigate and smaller, or the crests should drop from monsters and breakables MUCH more frequently.

I ran this quest a few times but could not reach the end bosses because (as I already said) I had to waste half the time getting lost and finding crests.

irivan
10-23-2011, 03:04 AM
Ok so the first couple of times I was getting lost like crazy, but the more i ran it, the more familiar i got with the basic patching in the dungeons.

I love the hugeness of it, its massive, I still haven't explored it all, but it really reminds of some the giant mod maps from Unreal. I love getting lost and exploring.

The mobs were average, I pretty much ran them over, but then again it wasn't the Epic dungeon so i can see why.

Finding the crests at first was a little challenging because i did not realize they fell out of the crates, but regardless, i figured that out and then did not have any trouble bypassing gates, the last one i did i ran out of time working on *spoiler alert* working on a puzzle i found, there was a door right next to it that i could have opened for more time but i got distracted....will continue to play around with these, but was a ton of fun, even killed 3 of the bosses in that one.

altrocks
10-23-2011, 04:25 AM
Rand it twice, solo, with my transferred level 20 AA ranger on Level 4 rating. Just getting a feel for the basic layout of the place. Definitely not solo-friendly, but not impossible either.

First of all, when I click on the challenge rule button on any of these, it gave me a MyDDO 404 error screen, so apparently that isn't in yet. Even so, this challenge was pretty easy to figure out. First time through, I spent a lot of time looking for crests, trying to find the right ones to open the doors that were locked and ended up stuck in the first couple of areas with nothing to do really except run around the same rooms over and over again hoping for a crest to drop. Saw no bosses at all, but I didn't get very far. Dead-ended in the Banner Room because of a lack of crests.

Went back in and had better luck this time. Opened many doors, for a bunch of secret doors and 2 or 3 boss mobs, including Dr. Rushmore and his elementals in the back alley area. (Note here: I was able to use crests to unlock the outside gate near the Pleasant Street exit and then take those crests back out to re-use them. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI, but it's the only place I saw this happen. all other door/gates locked the crests in place).

Had a lot more crests drop from mobs and they made more sense (wolf crests from dog-like mobs, scorp crests from insect mobs, etc). I also got to see a lot more of the map and wow, is it huge. I don't think I even came close to seeing all 16 gates. I did get to the gate to the puzzle room, but the crest slots were on the puzzle side of the door and the door could not be opened from the side I was on. I did take a few secret door shortcuts, however, so that might have been the issue. The sheer amount of non-mapped secret door paths made it hard to keep track of how I got from room A to B, making back-tracking very hard.

I think I got about half the gates, giving me around a half hour in there. Maybe 2 or 3 bosses (Spider and Dr. Rushmore are the only ones I remember clearly, but I think there was one other that run, maybe?). I never came across any traps, as others have reported, but that could be due to the low level I ran it at.

Overall, I have to say that this challenge, as it is right now, is pretty difficult and like no other one in game. It's like you took the end of VoN4 and stretched it out into a whole quest. Zerg, zerg, zerg. With level appropriate mobs, I can see it getting pretty short on time if their HP is too high with the respawns. I will have to take a look at it later with a group at-level and see how it goes.

However, as with most quests, I believe this one will end up being easily beaten for the collectibles in short order. There are only 3 or 4 variations on this map, yes? Once people get used to those variations, it will be no different from phase 2 of shroud. Everyone will see what the group has to deal with and will know the appropriate paths/strategies to defeat it. Unless boss mob locations are completely random, people will zerg right to them, kill all 4 (probably by splitting up or taking a least-resistance path past all 4 of them) and then split up to collect crests and open doors for optionals.

This points out a double-edged problem with the game, overall. The random element can keep quests from becoming grindy and predictable, but it's never used that way, at least not when it comes to map placement/generation. On the other hand, the randomness of the crests spawning leaves any groups ability to advance up to complete random luck. You might get a ton of wolf crests in the first areas, but to advance you might need 4 octopus crests (and maybe you have 1?) It's going to be frustrating for most players and the only real reason anyone will run it is for the collectibles to turn in for the loot. Just like Threnal with the Mantle/runearm/other end loot. Then no one will run it again unless it's to twink out a TR/vet toon.

You guys need to up your game on random generation for quests and the rules involved in door/key generation that go along with it. This stuff isn't new. It's been around in the PnP community for a long, long time. Basic DM-helper programs came with tile-sets and random generation rules for making dungeons of varying types, sizes and complexities over 15 years ago. The math and programming for it hasn't changed much, you'd just be using different "tiles". Maybe reliable on-the-fly map generation is a limitation the game engine has and so it cannot be done, but if it can I would suggest using it. It would help this quest out greatly. Not only in making the quest more interesting, but also more immersing.

If I'm running around a huge mansion and there are doors like that which require multiple crests to open, but mobs walking around only have maybe 1 crest, and the rest are scattered randomly around, behind other locked doors and in seemingly silly places, it just feels like a big, sloppy grind, not a quest or challenge. I can't suspend disbelief because it's just TOO random and nonsensical. How can anyone live in a place like that, from a practical standpoint. If there is another way of opening the doors for those who live/work in the place, then we should be able to discover and use it instead of relying on those random crests. Maybe there should be armory or guard rooms where there are large groups of mobs that are guarding the crests for a nearby door. Those would make sense and make it fun. A timed scavenger hunt for crests in a large, mostly empty mansion complex is just kind of... silly?

I mean, don't we already have something like that? Around Easter? In Marketplace? I think we do.

RandomKeypress
10-23-2011, 08:50 AM
Did a few more runs and finally got all five stars, with three minutes to spare. Once you know what you are doing and can navigate well enough, it's easy! As long as you're doing level 4 on your epic geared level 20 toon with constant haste / expeditious retreat and 30% striding boots that is.

Okay, I did take a few wrong turns - I was trying to map the place and only stopped running into corners when I realised that getting all five stars was possible. Still very tricky to solo at level, I feel.

There is a certain amount of fun to be found in there, but it is a very long quest with no tangible reward. No chests, no collectables, no end reward beyond a small handful of yet another turn in. (86 coins for all five stars). 3 points of favour for completing every objective. Favour farmers will do it, dedicated twinkers and completionists will probably find a reason - you know how useful a dragon-slaying blade is at level 4. For everyone else, I don't see this as being done often. I was hoping for a quick repeatable farming quest, but this is anything but. It's also expensive to run - you don't get back the cost of your consumables and money is tight at low levels.

Suggestions:
Give some reward of some kind - at least let people recover the wear-and-tear cost of armour and weapons.
Tone back the elementals - they're much tougher than the other mobs, and more annoying to fight than the bosses.
Make the doors two-way. When soloing a lot of time is wasted trying to find the side of the door that can actually be opened. Yes it makes it easier, but frankly trying to open the door to the war room from the other back passage end is annoying.

Shade
10-23-2011, 09:41 AM
3 points of favour for completing every objective.

mm 3 favor for 5 stars eh?

I got 4..

Perhaps lvl u select does affect favor in some way.

RandomKeypress
10-23-2011, 10:37 AM
mm 3 favor for 5 stars eh?

I got 4..

Perhaps lvl u select does affect favor in some way.

I certainly hope not - if you can't get full favour on a level 20 toon then I'd say something is seriously broken. Preventing people from getting favour because of level is seriously wrong.

Shade
10-23-2011, 10:48 AM
I certainly hope not - if you can't get full favour on a level 20 toon then I'd say something is seriously broken. Preventing people from getting favour because of level is seriously wrong.

I agree. Did you run it at the maximum available lvl? (15 iirc)

I do think you should have to run at lvl - when available tho.

Rule should be simply like this imo:
Run at lvl else:
if above lvl = favor -50% penalty.. round up (5 stars = 3 favor, 4 = 2 favor, 3 = 2 favor, 2/1 = 1 favor)
however if:
Quest lvl = maximum lvl available = favor = 100% regardless.

No idea why they dont simply all offer all 20 lvls tho. Seems like the scaling tech obviously does that automaticall so it wouldnt be hard (they obviously didnt manually edit stats of monsters on 20 different variations at ~15+ lvls per (~300 ish total mutations), its automatic)

RandomKeypress
10-23-2011, 01:55 PM
I agree. Did you run it at the maximum available lvl? (15 iirc)

I do think you should have to run at lvl - when available tho.

Rule should be simply like this imo:
Run at lvl else:
if above lvl = favor -50% penalty.. round up (5 stars = 3 favor, 4 = 2 favor, 3 = 2 favor, 2/1 = 1 favor)
however if:
Quest lvl = maximum lvl available = favor = 100% regardless.

No idea why they dont simply all offer all 20 lvls tho. Seems like the scaling tech obviously does that automaticall so it wouldnt be hard (they obviously didnt manually edit stats of monsters on 20 different variations at ~15+ lvls per (~300 ish total mutations), its automatic)

Sounds reasonable. I must admit that I ran it at lev 4 - if I'm doing it the easy way, might as well do it the EASY way. Once I've got my map sorted out with all the portraits, boss spawn points and one way doors, I may try another solo run with that lev 4, fresh-off-the-boat horc barb.

RandomKeypress
10-23-2011, 03:50 PM
Okay, I know I shouldn't just keep spamming this thread, but I did another run. Lev 20 rogue, lev 4 dungeon. No speed boosts beyond 30% striders. I had a path mapped out and knew what I was doing. I failed.

The reason why I failed was simple - there were two doors left that required crests of the octopus to open. One needed one crest, the other needed two. I had: 5 crests of the monkey, 7 crests of the scorpion, 7 crests of the wolf, 9 crests of the bat and 19 crests of the snake. That is an actual inventory count when I had 30 seconds left. I had already used up my 'mood' crest on another octopus slot.

I saw two crests of the octopus that I couldn't get at - one was on the balcony at the end of the shady tenements - couldn't reach because I can't jump to the balcony and it was behind the door that required the crest to open - and the other was further along the flying buttress route that I couldn't get to because I was running out of time - it was either get that or kill the crystal giant kobold.

It was a frustrating run. I don't want to put words into the devs' mouths, but it was probably just a quirk of the random number generator. If these quirks happen that easily, though, I'm not going to be happy.

On a completely unrelated topic, what's up with Smiley? I decided to try and do things properly, so I went to him first, persuaded him to join me through my amazing disarming trap abilities, and then went to Dr. Rushmore. No Smiley. Am I supposed to go back to him after Rushmore is dead and _then_ kill him? Why should I do the dialogue option rather than just cut him down when we first meet?

Claver
10-23-2011, 07:33 PM
I thought this was a reasonably fun quest.

Solo'd it with a level 9 warforged Air Savant and brought along a level 8 fighter hireling (Tower).

The first two runs were in a level 8 instance, the last run was in a level 9 instance.

(1st run) Failure
(2nd run) Success, Killed 2 bosses
(3rd run) Success, Killed 1 boss

XP: I was getting around 1100 - 1300 per completion. While that may not be the best xp in the game, I would be content with this so long as I was having fun in the quest itself. My assumption is that I would get more XP if I beat this challebge several levels above my level. If not, THAT is how the xp reward should scale for Challenges at least to give an incentive for doing things on a virtual "harder" difficulty.

2ND Run: The rogue assassin boss was very easy to defeat. Liked having all the crests in the water below the docks. I've often wished more secrets were submerged and am glad to see DDO giving us a reason to explore the nooks and crannies. The hall of traps leading to the docks was very interesting - wish I could have gotten into those rooms of locked crates.

Question, why all the exits to Market street and the harbor at the end of the quest? Why would we want to leave before finishing our objective - can we get back in?

I had time to go back and kill a second Boss, the Succubii. She was much more challenging than the rogue but all I had to do was heal myself a few times. It was the force traps that activated once I made it into her room that did me in - no problem getting in but it was too dangerous to get out. I was killed on the way back down the hallway.

SUGGESTION: Add an additional 2 minute timer for killing a boss to increase the liklihood additional bosses can be reached. Once you cross the hurdle of the pass/fail objective of killing one boss you can be generous in helping us kill more.

3RD RUN: I ended up in a back alley fighting a Kobold Boss (money changer) and his 3 elementals on top of a pile of money. At first it appeared I was going to have to leap to various roof tops to access this boss. Even with jump potions I didn't have the skill to make it to most of the ledges. That's fine if you want to hide crests on those roofs but if I would have had to make one of those jumps before finding the boss I would have been majorly annoyed. Not sure if there is another boss up there; just keep the frustration factor in mind if boss placement is random, the upper reaches of the roof would be a poor choice.

SUGGESTION: It would be helpful to know what type and number of crest are in inventory without losing time to search our inventory. It would be awesome if a visual cue could appear on the screen like an enchantment. Granted, this could be done by dragging the various crests into the hotbar for future reference. As an aside, the skeleton key crest was a nice feature.

The only other challenge I've run is Kobold Chaos - comparing the two, I think Kobold Chaos might have more "interesting" replay value with a larger party but "Behind the Door" has more "practical" replay value in that it strikes me as being much easier to solo.

Shade
10-23-2011, 08:47 PM
XP: I was getting around 1100 - 1300 per completion. While that may not be the best xp in the game, I would be content with this so long as I was having fun in the quest itself.

it may well be the WORST xp in the game.

Considering all challenges are a fairly fixed time limit . this one being slightly variable, in the 25-40min range (longer being when you do better oddly).

Thats around 32-44 XP per minute..

Acording to Mr Cows XP chart, the next worst quest in the game for xp is probably hold for reinforcements (Threnal East III), which is 70 xp per min..

So twice as bad as the worst quest in the game.. And your content with it?

Most any reasonably balanced quests gives in the 500-1000 range, even when ran slowly by new/poor players... Veterans are averaging 2000-3000 over a characters lifetime doing double TRs.

They need a MASSIVE boost for most players to be anywhere near content with the xp.

Now sure they are fun for what they are on the first few runs. But it's a mmo, they should offer some replay value and reasonable character advancement.

re: More for running it over ur lvl: Nope. Years ago all quests used to reward such a bonus.. It was removed.
Challenges are no different. There are penalties for running over lvl, but no bonuses for under.
Now running higher lvl versions does up the base XP slightly like any quest, but not by much.

Claver
10-23-2011, 09:23 PM
So twice as bad as the worst quest in the game.. And your content with it?

Yes......

MY feedback to Turbine was as long as I was having FUN with the quest/challenges I would be "content" with the XP. "I" am motivated to run quests for fun rather than XP per minute. Now eventually those quest will no longer be shiny and new. When they are no longer a novelty and are competing with all the other quests in the game then the xp becomes a bigger issue. I would be "unhappy" to play them if they offered zero xp and I would "happy" play them much more if they offered 10,000 xp and I will state again that at 1,000 xp I can be "content" so long as I am having fun.



re: More for running it over ur lvl: Nope. Years ago all quests used to reward such a bonus.. It was removed.
Challenges are no different. There are penalties for running over lvl, but no bonuses for under.
Now running higher lvl versions does up the base XP slightly like any quest, but not by much.

This comment is for Turbine: Change this, at least for Challenges. Given that there is no Hard/Elite setting there should be a dramatic XP bonus/incentive for doing challenges under level. Something like the following:

1 level+10%
2 levels +25%
3 levels +50%
4 levels +75%
5 levels +100%

Stev69
10-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Ran the lvl 15 solo on a lvl 20 monk about six times, was pretty easy.

It was fairly easy to pick up on what was required to compete the challenge and crests were plentiful, you really have to look in every nook and cranny for them at times. And if and when the time comes you find yourself without breakables left to acquire more crests respawning mobs drop them also. The time limit gives a sense of urgency and isn't overly harsh or demanding.

The bosses can be a bit tricky to find but once you know where they are they will always be in those locations it seems, have found four so far.

The only criticism I have is the low drop rate of antique coins, this could possibly be because I was running it on a level 20 toon, however to give you an idea of the lack of parity, I ran Disruptor twice (lvl20) and ended up with 1.1k worth of necromantic charms, whilst six runs of this quest has yielded less than 200 coins so far.

Shade
10-24-2011, 03:11 PM
5 Star'd at maximum CR, solo, no hireling, brute force:
980 points. (http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1710/5starmax.jpg) (Went for high score too, points in this quest seems to be just kills + bonus for objectives, ~150+ kills at least)

Fun. Not too difficult after some practice.

However from release notes:

If you complete all 5 star objectives in one run of a Challenge at its maximum available CR level, all of your blue stars will turn to gold - you'll earn bonus favor and bonus experience!

I didn't get any bonus favor or experience. Just 5 stars, 5 favor and the usual pitiful xp.

FlimsyFirewood
10-27-2011, 04:06 PM
There've been reports of Dungeon Alert being slammed and abnormally large spawns at portraits. We've been trying to isolate the issue with little success in the mansion challenges.

If you've seen situations where there's more than 5 monsters hanging out by each painting at the same time, please let us know, describing step-by-step what you did to get it to spawn so many.

Any other monster-density related problems could use more feedback as well, in any challenges, not just the Mansion.

brian14
11-03-2011, 11:33 AM
I ran this with a level 4 Barbarian Half-Orc + a level 4 hireling.
<skip>
I found this quest rather empty to an extent, it seemed I spent most of my time running down near empty hallways, smashing a few boxes and killing a few mobs (which look great).
What else could horc barbarian possibly want? :)

brian14
11-03-2011, 11:41 AM
Crates "rarely" drop crests (but I tend to not waste time breaking them on my arti since XBOW is a SLOW option to break with).
Why not bring a shortbow for that very purpose?

brian14
11-03-2011, 11:44 AM
On the positive side, I liked the way the quest looked. I like the high walls in the castle and lots of room to move around. I like the phantom mobs, simple but effective...and what I expected Invisible Stalkers to look like.
I see a contradiction here... :)

crazycaren
11-03-2011, 03:29 PM
I ran the challenge 3 times on my lvl 15 sorc (geared).

The first 2 times were at level 5 and I ran out of time because I didn't have the right crests. The third time at level 10 I completed by doing multiple D-doors to re-run the area and get more crests.

If you REALLY like the crest mechanic, I think the algorithm needs some improvements. The spawn rate of monsters at lower levels is just too low to get all the crests you need - especially if you need 2 or 3 of the same kind.

For the first room/door, the random algorithm would be better if it pulled from a normal/bell/gaussian distribution rather than uniform. My first fail was because it took almost the entire time to get a crest that fit in the first door. Even then it was a "wild card" not the octopus.

On the other doors, no two crest requirements should be the same. Or, put another way, unique set of crests per door. Having to find 2 scorpions when the spawn rate is super low at lvl 5 caused my second fail.

I guess you could just have much higher spawn rates and weaker monsters.

On another matter, the monsters take too long to be targetable once they spawn. It's annoying at best and in a time limited quest... inappropriate.

cheers

tygara
11-04-2011, 06:10 AM
Dr Rushmoor boss, and Crystal the Giant boss are FAR too scaled up for an encounter
This is a dungeon pretty much made to solo and split up, and with the map being so big, ya are really split up once ya bump into a boss. When encountering eather one of those 2 bosses (this is btw in every one of the Dr Rushmoor castle challenges, not only in the Behind the door challenge) there is just no way to tackle him solo. Even as a sorcerer, drinking mana potions like lemonade, I was not able to kill eather one of the 2. I drank in the last try against crystal alone 55 major store potions, and he was STILL alive.

- The elementals respawn WAY too fast
- His crowd control has a way too high DC
- His elementals have way too much hitpoints

In my opinion, this could be a very fun and challenging fight to tackle solo, but ya need to have a look to scale down this fight a bit
- Eather need to totally remove the elementals (them on their own are already super challenging without those continuously driving the alert through the roof)
- Or maybe totally remove his crowd control, or make his DCs a lot lower

Just 2 suggestions, but currently as those 2 bosses are scaled, they are way too resourse intensive and totally no fun, coz they get healed way too fast up again by the respawn rate of the elementals

Terebinthia
11-04-2011, 08:16 AM
I'm not a fan of the crest mechanic - did several runs trying to work out the map and break boxes etc and didn't end up even seeing the boss before running out of time.

I don't know if it's better if you go in in a group - the difficulty is in testing that on Lama, of course, with such a low server population.

Just as general comment, I was hoping that the challenges would be more solo friendly, or have solo friendly options. As it stands it doesn't feel like that's the case.

mystafyi
12-02-2011, 09:34 AM
If i kill the mistress and ugg before smiling sam, he bugs out on me, making it impossible to to agro him or dialog.

Kaldaka
12-02-2011, 10:04 PM
If i kill the mistress and ugg before smiling sam, he bugs out on me, making it impossible to to agro him or dialog.


Ditto ... I'd bug report it, but that appears to be not working either /sigh ...

Darlor
12-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Managed to get a 5 star clear with time to spare on a double TRed L17 monk (running at L15) without using potions or hirelings. Seems to me to be the easiest challenge to solo (in terms of getting 5 stars, not simply completing).

I'm not sure how the crest drops and slots are determined, but it might be a little too random. I almost always end up with one or two crest types that I have way too many of (i.e. I'll be halfway through a run with 8 bat crests and 0 octopus crests, for example), and once was in a situation where all three doors I could go through in order to proceed required wolf crests (one of them requiring two) yet I did not have any despite clearing every area available up to that point.

A massive factor in my time was the matter of which elementals were spawned by the bosses. A chain of water and air elementals could easily end a run. Additionally, having dismissing strike (or another banish effect/spell) seems too important, as those elementals take a little too much to kill otherwise.