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View Full Version : Make LOB mats BTA



Tirisha
10-18-2011, 01:10 PM
LOB is a tough quest that's heavily dependent on Healers, casters and Tanks. The problem I see is that many Healers, Casters and tanks might not need (or want) much out of the raid.

Eladiun
10-18-2011, 01:53 PM
/Signed

Because I hate BTC crafting mats. :mad:

R0cksteady
10-18-2011, 02:05 PM
/Sign

countfitz
10-18-2011, 02:14 PM
/signed

Chette
10-18-2011, 02:20 PM
Are you kidding?
The tier three effects for casters (which includes divines) and way more overpowered than the tier three effects for melees.

I pretty much only run LoB on my divines, and my monks. Everybody else is doing just fine with greensteel and can wait to get the increase from alchemical weapons.

Eladiun
10-18-2011, 02:54 PM
Are you kidding?
The tier three effects for casters (which includes divines) and way more overpowered than the tier three effects for melees.

I pretty much only run LoB on my divines, and my monks. Everybody else is doing just fine with greensteel and can wait to get the increase from alchemical weapons.


Really...

Efficient Metamagic Enlarge II (Don't Care), Greater Enchantment Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Spell Focus Mastery +1 (Already have in multiple spots)
Efficient Metamagic Empower II , Greater Conjuration Focus(Already have in multiple spots), Greater Spell Penetration IX
Efficient Metamagic Extend II(Don't Care), Greater Transmutation Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Greater Elemental Spell Power (Doesn't Stack with GS)
Efficient Metamagic Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX (Doesn't work for Divines at least according to Description on Existing items)

...the melee ones don't blow me away either but at least the red slot is useful. Heck, I can craft Greater focus items. Also, the Ornamental Dagger is Superior Potency VII meaning that the first tier on an arcane essentially effect 1 Cold Spell, 1 Acid Spell, 2 Fire Spells, and 0 Electric Spells.

Chai
10-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Really...

Efficient Metamagic Enlarge II (Don't Care), Greater Enchantment Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Spell Focus Mastery +1 (Already have in multiple spots)
Efficient Metamagic Empower II , Greater Conjuration Focus(Already have in multiple spots), Greater Spell Penetration IX
Efficient Metamagic Extend II(Don't Care), Greater Transmutation Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Greater Elemental Spell Power (Doesn't Stack with GS)
Efficient Metamagic Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX (Doesn't work for Divines at least according to Description on Existing items)

...the melee ones don't blow me away either but at least the red slot is useful. Heck, I can craft Greater focus items. Also, the Ornamental Dagger is Superior Potency VII meaning that the first two tiers on an arcane essentially effect 1 Cold Spell, 1 Acid Spell, 2 Fire Spells, and 0 Electric Spells.

Its not about more power, its about consolidation.

Xenostrata
10-18-2011, 03:02 PM
Really...

Efficient Metamagic Enlarge II (Don't Care), Greater Enchantment Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Spell Focus Mastery +1 (Already have in multiple spots)
Efficient Metamagic Empower II , Greater Conjuration Focus(Already have in multiple spots), Greater Spell Penetration IX
Efficient Metamagic Extend II(Don't Care), Greater Transmutation Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Greater Elemental Spell Power (Doesn't Stack with GS)
Efficient Metamagic Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX (Doesn't work for Divines at least according to Description on Existing items)

...they melee ones don't blow me away either but at least the red slot is useful. Heck, I can craft Greater focus items.

Yeah, this. I can see MAYBE doing this on a savant in order to get a superior lore in your element, but I see new items doing that already and after one particularly lucky eDQ in which both the base and shard Cloak of the Zephyr dropped I'm not going to look at these raids at all on Wyllywyl.

So, yeah... /signed.

Munkenmo
10-18-2011, 03:06 PM
/signed

It completely stumps me as to why we've got such a large mixture of bound and unbound ingredients from these new raids. Personally I'd go for the shroud approach, make the mystical and martial cells btc, everything else unbound or bta. We could do with more currencies than frds / lds anyway.

protokon
10-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Its not about more power, its about consolidation.

That is what makes the whole thing overwhelmingly underwhelming.

arcanes/ divines aren't getting new "power" items, just consolidation. because I was soo tight on slots as it was :rolleyes:.

I am running my cleric in there because its my favorite toon, but honestly I have no reason to craft anything (beyond maybe tier 1 for superior devotion IX)

Eladiun
10-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Its not about more power, its about consolidation.

Last time I checked, there was a shortage of things to fill slots on Arcanes and Divines as it is.

Eladiun
10-18-2011, 03:55 PM
Superior Devotion IX is something that I've wanted for a long time.


Agreed. That one for Mass Heal is awesome. Beyond that Pure Healers pretty much got shafted.

gloopygloop
10-18-2011, 03:58 PM
Really...

Efficient Metamagic Enlarge II (Don't Care), Greater Enchantment Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Spell Focus Mastery +1 (Already have in multiple spots)
Efficient Metamagic Empower II , Greater Conjuration Focus(Already have in multiple spots), Greater Spell Penetration IX
Efficient Metamagic Extend II(Don't Care), Greater Transmutation Focus (Already have in multiple spots), Greater Elemental Spell Power (Doesn't Stack with GS)
Efficient Metamagic Maximize II, Greater Evocation Focus, Arcane Augmentation IX (Doesn't work for Divines at least according to Description on Existing items)

...the melee ones don't blow me away either but at least the red slot is useful. Heck, I can craft Greater focus items. Also, the Ornamental Dagger is Superior Potency VII meaning that the first tier on an arcane essentially effect 1 Cold Spell, 1 Acid Spell, 2 Fire Spells, and 0 Electric Spells.

Superior Devotion IX is something that I've wanted for a long time.

...of course, I don't really care about the tier 2 and 3 effects, so I'm probably just going to stick with a one handed generic weapon to pair up with either a Cove dagger or a Greenblade when I'm raid healing.

Pwesiela
10-18-2011, 04:20 PM
Personally, I'm looking forward to the lasceration effect for my clerics blade barriers. :D


Here's the big problem with going BtA though: You make that change and a character can get a full weapon without ever running either raid. The alchemical weapons are completely unbound, and 5 runs will get you any item you want. The martial/mystical cells are completely unbound, and can go to whomever. So they have the spirits bind. Like shards of power in the Vale, if you want to craft, you need to run that character through to get the item. All the prep work means diddly if you don't get those shards. Similarly, all the prep work in MA and LoB mean diddly if you don't get the Spirit.

While I hate BtA and BtC on general principle (when was the last update where we had honest to goodness unbound named loot?) I understand why the spirits are bound. If the character wants the item, regardless of how OP or UP it is, the character needs to make some effort to get it. In LoB the same as the Vale.

/notsigned

R0cksteady
10-18-2011, 04:44 PM
Superior Devotion IX is something that I've wanted for a long time.

...of course, I don't really care about the tier 2 and 3 effects, so I'm probably just going to stick with a one handed generic weapon to pair up with either a Cove dagger or a Greenblade when I'm raid healing.

12% to crit chance doesn't look good to you? No other item can get the same healing lore as tier 2 alchemical.

Paleus
10-18-2011, 04:48 PM
So, let me get this straight. If they make the items bound to account I'll be more likely to run the raid on my healer? Why wouldn't I just run the raid on my non-blue bars and pass the mats around among them?

If you want healers to run the raid, you need to make it cost-effective and enjoyable for them to run it, not treat them like they have no reason to run the raid other than to outfit their other characters who they may as well just run the raid on instead. So, focus on improving group tactics as well as character builds/gear so that its not treated like a pot fest. Also, if it does become a pot fest then either A) You got a bad healer or B) You need to compensate the healer for pulling you through it and go back to the drawing board on yourself before stepping in again.

I ran LoB first time ever and on a healer recently, was smooth, used three pots total. I count that as a reasonable learning curve for myself honestly on a first outting. I assume it was because I was in a good group who communicated well and knew what they were doing. Nevertheless, no one bothered to ask if I used any pots. While I don't care personally, if its a choice between running on a character that requires me to spend 0 pots regardless of how bad the party is versus one that I run the risk of downing pots if I get in a bad group, guess which one I'll choose to run on if it comes time to pug instead of guild/channel that raid?

So, making it bound to account really doesn't change my calculus on running that raid other than inclining me to use my melee characters to outfit my healers (not the other way around).

TDarkchylde
10-18-2011, 04:56 PM
My healers will probably never even step foot into this raid.

/signed

Norean
10-18-2011, 07:46 PM
I see OP and UP a lot in the forums and in general chat in game. I never understand what that means. OP or UP relative to what? What's the reference point?

Oolung
10-18-2011, 08:05 PM
It might mean "over powered" and "underpowered" (OP and UP, respectively)


I know OP can also mean "original post" or "original poster"

R0cksteady
10-18-2011, 08:10 PM
So, let me get this straight. If they make the items bound to account I'll be more likely to run the raid on my healer? Why wouldn't I just run the raid on my non-blue bars and pass the mats around among them?

If you want healers to run the raid, you need to make it cost-effective and enjoyable for them to run it, not treat them like they have no reason to run the raid other than to outfit their other characters who they may as well just run the raid on instead. So, focus on improving group tactics as well as character builds/gear so that its not treated like a pot fest. Also, if it does become a pot fest then either A) You got a bad healer or B) You need to compensate the healer for pulling you through it and go back to the drawing board on yourself before stepping in again.

I ran LoB first time ever and on a healer recently, was smooth, used three pots total. I count that as a reasonable learning curve for myself honestly on a first outting. I assume it was because I was in a good group who communicated well and knew what they were doing. Nevertheless, no one bothered to ask if I used any pots. While I don't care personally, if its a choice between running on a character that requires me to spend 0 pots regardless of how bad the party is versus one that I run the risk of downing pots if I get in a bad group, guess which one I'll choose to run on if it comes time to pug instead of guild/channel that raid?

So, making it bound to account really doesn't change my calculus on running that raid other than inclining me to use my melee characters to outfit my healers (not the other way around).

There's a timer. You'd use your healers because I'm sure you'd want to keep all your toons on timer, or all the good ones.

Norean
10-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Ok, what makes an aspect of the game "overpowered"? What makes something "underpowered"?

sirgog
10-18-2011, 08:11 PM
My healers will probably never even step foot into this raid.

/signed

It does have the best healer-oriented loot in the game by a long way, so your loss. Superior Devotion 9 is incredible.

I don't mind it as it is now, although it can be a pain to get the highest demand specific spirits on the character that you want them on.

MRH
10-18-2011, 08:25 PM
My healers will probably never even step foot into this raid.

/signed


This is why they need BTC stuff........

Some stuff needs to stay BTC so you actually have to run your characters through the quests in the game to get geared

Not make 10 toons.... run 1 thru the game to outfit the other 9.

Just sayin...

Chette
10-18-2011, 08:56 PM
The superior lore is crazy good, if you don't get that on your divine you're really missing out, not to mention superior devotion IX for mass-heal and spell pen IX is very difficult to get, particularly as I like to wear litany and torc. My divine caster will be getting a tier 3 sickle and a tier 2 shield, and each of my arcanes will be getting two tier 2 items, possibly a tier 3, before any of my melees, save my monks, get anything.

gloopygloop
10-18-2011, 09:19 PM
12% to crit chance doesn't look good to you? No other item can get the same healing lore as tier 2 alchemical.

12% chance to crit heal doesn't look good to me when I have to cast all of my heals so that they're big enough to heal the party member back up to full-ish even without a crit or I'll have a dead party member on my hands 78% of the time.

I love crits on offensive spells, but I'm not interested in spending any real resources for healing crits when I have to count on the healing without crits no matter what my crit chance is.

Kmnh
10-18-2011, 09:25 PM
LoB mats are unbound... Well, the ones that are actually hard to find anyway. By the time you have a martial/mystical cell, a base power cell and a greater power cell, spirits won't be a problem.

Xenostrata
10-18-2011, 09:29 PM
12% to crit chance doesn't look good to you? No other item can get the same healing lore as tier 2 alchemical.

Mostly what gloopy said, but there isn't much competition for glove slots for a healer, and the Gauntlets of Eternity are INFINITELY easier to get.



This is why they need BTC stuff........

Some stuff needs to stay BTC so you actually have to run your characters through the quests in the game to get geared

Not make 10 toons.... run 1 thru the game to outfit the other 9.

Just sayin...

Exactly how long are you willing to grind out on only one character? Being able to twink out other characters from these would mean more class diversity in loot-biased raids; I for one wouldn't mind seeing someone without a blue bar in an Abbot run for once.

Yes, it would be theoretically possible to twink out 9 characters off of one. It would also be fundamentally easier to run all 10 characters and have them all twink each other out.

raven98
10-18-2011, 09:59 PM
/signed

Sarisa
10-18-2011, 10:19 PM
In almost every situation when I would cast Mass Heal, it's when the lowest HP person worth keeping alive needs it. This makes a standard Mass Heal (even without Empower Healing on) overheal almost everyone else in the raid, barring Warforged with pathetically bad healing amp. While it can be very nice, it's usually overkill and not necessary.

The Superior Healing Lore is great for the RS Aura, but is not something I would depend on in a Mass Heal environment.

Superior Laceration Lore/Superior Radiance Lore are only 3% higher crit rate than a commonly used Greenblade/Skiver/Noxious Embers/Blue Scale Major Arcane Lore with a Rahkir's Set. If you take out the Rahkir's set, then you can add an extra 0.25 crit multiplier for the Superior vs. the Major. For the few that really want to max out their Blade Barriers or Divine Punishments, it's worth making a tier 2 Alchemical for it. The rest of us will make do with slightly lower crit rates and crit damage with a more versatile equipment layout.

I just feel that most people would rather use their spirits and other ingredients on a character that can benefit more, like their monk, melee, or arcane casters.

R0cksteady
10-18-2011, 11:11 PM
12% chance to crit heal doesn't look good to me when I have to cast all of my heals so that they're big enough to heal the party member back up to full-ish even without a crit or I'll have a dead party member on my hands 78% of the time.

I love crits on offensive spells, but I'm not interested in spending any real resources for healing crits when I have to count on the healing without crits no matter what my crit chance is.

Aura and bursts bro

Shade
10-18-2011, 11:21 PM
If you don't think this stuff is good for divines/arcanes.. Well you really have no idea.

This is by far the best loot in the game for casters.
Period.

The only item that can compete with the caster sticks in terms of sheer power is the epic torc.

The melee weapons are all inferior to what any THF melee worth taking into epic has already (ESoS, Epic Antique)

For TWF, they are very slight improvemetns compared to greensteel.

Personally i've ran LoB a good 50+ times. I've given away 90% of my loot to casters as I know its that much better for them and I currently dont play one often at endgame (sorcs TR'd atm)

The fact the OP didn't even really specific or probably even undersatnd the details of the loot shows the lack of weight or thought this suggestion holds.

The fact is everything from LoB except the spirits are already BTA or unbound anyways. The spirits should remain BTC.

The fact the droprates are so high and that you get a choice of nearly everything on every 10th makes these items FAR eeasier to acquire then greensteel, and they are far more powerful (on the caster side).

The arguement that it's only 3% more then a collection of 3+ items is prety poor t0o. When you can consolate what 3 slots does into 1 - thats an ULTRA powerful item, and the fact these weapons have ~12! effects plus a clicky.. damn.

giggiddy
10-18-2011, 11:45 PM
oh please dear god yes /signed!!

Rawel_San
10-19-2011, 12:19 AM
If you don't think this stuff is good for divines/arcanes.. Well you really have no idea.

This is by far the best loot in the game for casters.
Period.

The only item that can compete with the caster sticks in terms of sheer power is the epic torc.

The melee weapons are all inferior to what any THF melee worth taking into epic has already (ESoS, Epic Antique)

For TWF, they are very slight improvemetns compared to greensteel.

Personally i've ran LoB a good 50+ times. I've given away 90% of my loot to casters as I know its that much better for them and I currently dont play one often at endgame (sorcs TR'd atm)

The fact the OP didn't even really specific or probably even undersatnd the details of the loot shows the lack of weight or thought this suggestion holds.

The fact is everything from LoB except the spirits are already BTA or unbound anyways. The spirits should remain BTC.

The fact the droprates are so high and that you get a choice of nearly everything on every 10th makes these items FAR eeasier to acquire then greensteel, and they are far more powerful (on the caster side).

The arguement that it's only 3% more then a collection of 3+ items is prety poor t0o. When you can consolate what 3 slots does into 1 - thats an ULTRA powerful item, and the fact these weapons have ~12! effects plus a clicky.. damn.

The items are ok for casters they are nowhere near as good slot consolidators as the twf weapons are or
as good as the monk wraps but they aren't bad. The slight problem is that all the things that you really
want out of melee weapon happens pretty much by tier2, tier 3 is there just for a bit more dps and breaking
dr. The caster sticks on the other hand are pretty much useless without tier 3.

The first two tier of caster sticks are only really useful for divines and that's just because clickies for their
spells don't come on belt slots so you would have to grab them on normal weapons and that's a bit
irritating. They do give sup devotion IX that is true and that is interesting even if 90% of the time the
extra boost to mass heal will just mean more overhealing.

For non divines the first two tiers have a deconsolidated version of lores which is 3% better then what
we already have (notice you need 4 of these to cover all bases, most I guess will just make cold/elec but that's
still hardly slot consolidation).

The only really good effects come on tier 3 for casters and those are arcane augumentation IX and
greater spell pen IX. Arcane augmentation IX is nice (should add about 5-10% dps on the spells it works with)
and greater spell pen IX is also very nice for mass hold, wail and pwk. I will give you that these two effects
are nice and worth making the items for but you can't try and argue slot consolidation or OP. It's a very
modest increase in dps/utility but for an item that will be incredibly hard to get unlike the melee stuff that
just needs you to run the raid normal/hard (do you even need hard for refined spirits?) and that will be
easy to craft. You have to complete epic LoB to get the things that make the caster items
worthwhile and given how easy that seems to be so far I don't see that happening too fast and for most
players ever.

So yeah sticks nice. Stick best caster loot in game? Not by miles give me a non epic torc, non epic lionheaded
or tod rings any day over these. Petitioner's staff is a bigger boost to most casters then these sticks will be.
The tier 2 versions are close to useless for non divines.

Also did you just imply in your post that thf melee isn't worth taking into epic quests before they have epic
items?:D:D

Tirisha
10-19-2011, 12:20 AM
If you don't think this stuff is good for divines/arcanes.. Well you really have no idea.

This is by far the best loot in the game for casters.
Period.

The only item that can compete with the caster sticks in terms of sheer power is the epic torc.

The melee weapons are all inferior to what any THF melee worth taking into epic has already (ESoS, Epic Antique)

For TWF, they are very slight improvemetns compared to greensteel.

Personally i've ran LoB a good 50+ times. I've given away 90% of my loot to casters as I know its that much better for them and I currently dont play one often at endgame (sorcs TR'd atm)

The fact the OP didn't even really specific or probably even undersatnd the details of the loot shows the lack of weight or thought this suggestion holds.

The fact is everything from LoB except the spirits are already BTA or unbound anyways. The spirits should remain BTC.

The fact the droprates are so high and that you get a choice of nearly everything on every 10th makes these items FAR eeasier to acquire then greensteel, and they are far more powerful (on the caster side).

The arguement that it's only 3% more then a collection of 3+ items is prety poor t0o. When you can consolate what 3 slots does into 1 - thats an ULTRA powerful item, and the fact these weapons have ~12! effects plus a clicky.. damn.

Sry but the Staff of Petitioner is much better than one of those silly wpns you can make imo and the whole second part of your rant is you going off on some tangent of assuming you know me and what I want/should want from the raid. (not very constructive cause it's pretty much false).

Chette
10-19-2011, 12:29 AM
Sry but the Staff of Petitioner is much better than one of those silly wpns you can make imo and the whole second part of your rant is you going off on some tangent of assuming you know me and what I want/should want from the raid. (not very constructive cause it's pretty much false).

Staff of the petitioner makes your spell points last a little longer, it doesn't make bosses die faster or DC spells land more often. It's a nice little crutch, and one I admit I use a lot of the time because it just *feels* nice knowing I'm saving 10%.

But when it comes to end game, I'd go for damage and spell pen any day. I doubt my staff will even come out of my TR bank after I make alchemical weapons. Well...maybe it will come out for when I feel like doing some work while I stand in place and cast mass heal...but that's about it.


But setting aside the loot for a moment and whether it's good or not, it all comes down to this...do you want to make your character better? If you do, run the new raids with them. If you don't, then don't. If you don't care about improving your caster, don't run it. If you're happy with it the way it is, then what do you care? Personally, I love my divine. I would run this raid on her regardless as to whether I wanted to loot on her, because I enjoy playing her. When you enjoy playing a character, you tend to want to make it as awesome as possible. So on that note, I'll say, that I have NEVER had trouble finding arcanes, divines, bards, tanks, or whatever to fill a LoB or MA, because the people that I play with love their characters, know how to play them, and want to make them better. Would I pug a new raid on my healer? Not in a million years. But that doesn't have anything to do with loot ;)

moritheil
10-19-2011, 01:33 AM
Why should we care how someone gears their characters? In fact, with BtA the same player time is going into the zone; the main difference is that people can then swap characters to fill different roles depending on what the party needs. This means less time waiting for healers or CC and faster group filling. I would think that would be something everyone could get behind.


Yes, it would be theoretically possible to twink out 9 characters off of one. It would also be fundamentally easier to run all 10 characters and have them all twink each other out.

This.

Munkenmo
10-19-2011, 01:37 AM
The fact the OP didn't even really specific or probably even undersatnd the details of the loot shows the lack of weight or thought this suggestion holds..

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

breath

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

k i'm done.

Sarisa
10-19-2011, 07:04 AM
The arguement that it's only 3% more then a collection of 3+ items is prety poor t0o. When you can consolate what 3 slots does into 1 - thats an ULTRA powerful item, and the fact these weapons have ~12! effects plus a clicky.. damn.

It's 3% more for a SPECIFIC class of spells, only. Major Arcane Lore+Rahkir's works on everything. Divine spells are spread out across all schools, so it's not like we can specialize and still get a great benefit like arcane casters can. If you want to forego the 0.25 extra crit multiplier, then you can get a lot more versatility with a single item.

If all you're doing is healing, and are willing to waste a lot of potential overhealing or wasting crits, go for it. It's nice for Cleric's aura/bursts, but definitely not essential.

This divine loot is really just for the few people who either BB kite alone, or Divine Punishment DoT tank and want to maximize their potential. And those are the ones you complain about being overpowered FvS's.

Samadhi
10-19-2011, 11:28 AM
/signed

Eladiun
10-19-2011, 11:30 AM
Why does it matter?

Why would you prefer me to sit there on my monk who needs items from the raid for 20 mins while the LFM sits there LF-Healer; when I could instead switch to the healer, we could go run the raid, and everyone wins because we are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill a group?


That's fine make the Cells BTC since they are generic and make the essences BTA. It would have been nice if this was actually working when this was on Lam so we could have given better feedback.

Samadhi
10-19-2011, 11:38 AM
This is why they need BTC stuff........

Some stuff needs to stay BTC so you actually have to run your characters through the quests in the game to get geared

Not make 10 toons.... run 1 thru the game to outfit the other 9.

Just sayin...

Why does it matter?

Why would you prefer me to sit there on my monk who needs items from the raid for 20 mins while the LFM sits there LF-Healer; when I could instead switch to the healer, we could go run the raid, and everyone wins because we are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill a group?

Tirisha
10-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Why does it matter?

Why would you prefer me to sit there on my monk who needs items from the raid for 20 mins while the LFM sits there LF-Healer; when I could instead switch to the healer, we could go run the raid, and everyone wins because we are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill a group?

Pretty much this.

Tirisha
10-19-2011, 01:32 PM
It does have the best healer-oriented loot in the game by a long way, so your loss. Superior Devotion 9 is incredible.

I don't mind it as it is now, although it can be a pain to get the highest demand specific spirits on the character that you want them on.

I don't know Sup devotion 9 is meh to me, Mass heal hits for enough, everything else I can use clickies and that's assuming that the said Healer isn't a DPS build which would never in a million years wield a silly healing stick.

Tirisha
10-19-2011, 01:36 PM
Staff of the petitioner makes your spell points last a little longer, it doesn't make bosses die faster or DC spells land more often. It's a nice little crutch, and one I admit I use a lot of the time because it just *feels* nice knowing I'm saving 10%.

Casting more/longer=more dps. in long fights like TOD or Epic LOB your better off keeping those dots up for say oh 400+ more SP worth of casting..






But setting aside the loot for a moment and whether it's good or not, it all comes down to this...do you want to make your character better? If you do, run the new raids with them. If you don't, then don't. If you don't care about improving your caster, don't run it. If you're happy with it the way it is, then what do you care? Personally, I love my divine. I would run this raid on her regardless as to whether I wanted to loot on her, because I enjoy playing her. When you enjoy playing a character, you tend to want to make it as awesome as possible. So on that note, I'll say, that I have NEVER had trouble finding arcanes, divines, bards, tanks, or whatever to fill a LoB or MA, because the people that I play with love their characters, know how to play them, and want to make them better. Would I pug a new raid on my healer? Not in a million years. But that doesn't have anything to do with loot ;)

The problem is relying on other players to fill the important roles in this quest. Sure I'll bring my useless (dps) characters in there from time to time when the opportunity arrives but most of the time if I want to do this quest and not get stomped, I'm gonna have to bring characters into the quest that don't even need/want loot from it.

and I'm glad you have a never ending supply of healers and tanks willing to let you pike through the raid on whatever toon you want to gear but sry I don't and that is where my problem lies.

somenewnoob
10-19-2011, 01:46 PM
/signed like a mf

God but I'm so sick of crafting materials in general........

Samadhi
10-19-2011, 02:06 PM
God but I'm so sick of crafting materials in general........

That also. Can we go back to loot that I don't need the ddowiki and an excel sheet to figure out?


[Speaking of which, has someone made a good crafting walkthrough yet for the new raids? I think I am at least close to making something but I haven't found a full walkthrough anywhere yet.]

Xenostrata
10-19-2011, 03:45 PM
If you don't think this stuff is good for divines/arcanes.. Well you really have no idea.

This is by far the best loot in the game for casters.
Period.

The only item that can compete with the caster sticks in terms of sheer power is the epic torc.
Despite what people say, I enjoy my Petitioner's - +2 enchantment and necro DCs, spell pen, and +10% sp (even on potions) is pretty sweet.
The melee weapons are all inferior to what any THF melee worth taking into epic has already (ESoS, Epic Antique)
I disagree. I think that the SoS might underperform in comparison to a triple air falchion against an 80% fortification boss. Also, difference between 30 LoB runs and 100+ eVoN runs is significant.
For TWF, they are very slight improvemetns compared to greensteel.
Slight? DPS wise, maybe. Utility, NO. Try throwing +10 stun, +10 seeker, 6% doublestrike, +2 exc stats, etc. on a greensteel - and still being ahead for DPS.
Personally i've ran LoB a good 50+ times. I've given away 90% of my loot to casters as I know its that much better for them and I currently dont play one often at endgame (sorcs TR'd atm)

The fact the OP didn't even really specific or probably even undersatnd the details of the loot shows the lack of weight or thought this suggestion holds.

The fact is everything from LoB except the spirits are already BTA or unbound anyways. The spirits should remain BTC.


The fact the droprates are so high and that you get a choice of nearly everything on every 10th makes these items FAR eeasier to acquire then greensteel, and they are far more powerful (on the caster side).
I agree that they are far more powerful than GS for my caster, but only because GS is COMPLETELY GIMP for him. Give me my +45 hp and +150 sp and let me go. I might take a conopp on the way out.
The arguement that it's only 3% more then a collection of 3+ items is prety poor t0o. When you can consolate what 3 slots does into 1 - thats an ULTRA powerful item, and the fact these weapons have ~12! effects plus a clicky.. damn.
Again, gear consolidation on casters is like putting a cat on prozac - useful for a few rare cases, pointlessly expensive and unnecessary for most. Especially since most of those "~12!" effects amount to efficient metamagics and useless damage boosts.

Yep, comments.