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Jimiburg
09-28-2011, 09:52 AM
Was new to the game and wondering what race you would recommend for the best magic usesr and why? Someone said war-forged to me, but after playing a little not sure why as the immunities are nice but not sure why

Eladiun
09-28-2011, 09:52 AM
Was new to the game and wondering what race you would recommend for the best magic usesr and why? Someone said war-forged to me, but after playing a little not sure why as the immunities are nice but not sure why

Self healing.

dkyle
09-28-2011, 09:55 AM
WF is for self-healing. Being able to reconstruct yourself is a huge advantage. The immunities are largely besides the point.

Fleshy Sorcs can get UMD for Heal scrolls, but that's not as good, and getting UMD high enough can be somewhat difficult. Fleshy Wizards can go Pale Master for decent self-healing, but it's not as good as reconstruct, in my opinion.

thwart
09-28-2011, 09:55 AM
Was new to the game and wondering what race you would recommend for the best magic usesr and why? Someone said war-forged to me, but after playing a little not sure why as the immunities are nice but not sure why

+1 for saying "magic-user". You are old school and I like it!

Letza
09-28-2011, 09:59 AM
I think it all depends on if you want to be a sorcerer or a wizard.

Sorcerer=Human

Wizard=Warforged

Reasoning:
Humans get that bonus feat, where sorcerers are super starved on feats as it is. Also the human enhancements are great overall. And you get the racial bonus to Charisma as a human.

Warforged can get healed by Repair spells. Being a wizard allows you to switch your spells often so when you get a new repair spell you can have that one docked, and possibly the one just lower. Also Wizards have so many feats you don't need to worry about being a human to be one.

There are obviously more reasons why I believe these fit the two the best.

Eladiun
09-28-2011, 10:01 AM
Fleshy Sorcs can get UMD for Heal scrolls, but that's not as good, and getting UMD high enough can be somewhat difficult. Fleshy Wizards can go Pale Master for decent self-healing, but it's not as good as reconstruct, in my opinion.

Agreed. My first two lives have been as a Fleshy Wizard. I've done fine with UMD as an AM and as a PM but I'm TR again Thursday to a WF. I was able to scroll farm and handle all epics as a Fleshy but now with things harder the margin for error is tighter (as a kiter in LoB or MA for example) and that the ability to save myself with a recon is too valuable. It also helps that I can drop Greater Spell pen with the past lives.

As for the OP it depends on what you are doing and what you want to do. Humans are nice for an extra feat, H-elfs work, Elves work, and WF are very good. Casters are great especially at higher levels and if you don't like it you can always TR. The Wizard past life is great.

KillEveryone
09-28-2011, 10:04 AM
Max possible DC - Human or Drow. Human takes a bit more gear.

Self Healing - Warforged. Fleshy pale master is also good but doesn't have as many self healing spells as a WF. Halfling get dragonmarks that work well since they are affected by meta magics that you will have. Warforged over all are much better for self healing arcane.

Max spell pen - Elf

Flavor and fun - whatever you want to roll.

Therigar
09-28-2011, 10:12 AM
There is, probably, no single race that is "best." However, four seem to have significant advantages over the others.

Human because of the extra feat. It really does seem to matter for many players.

Half-elf because of the dilettante and the ability to choose between elven and human enhancements. This gives a lot of flexibility.

Elf because of the bonuses to spell penetration.

Warforged because of the self-healing.

I would disagree with the analysis suggesting human for sorcerer and warforged for wizard. In general the race choices and reasons for them apply regardless of which arcane class you go with.

In the case of wizard it almost comes down to prestige class. Human, half-elf or elf if you plan on pale master. If you plan on archmagi then warforged.

In the case of sorcerer I'm not sure that it is much more than personal preference. And, in this case you also have to consider drow as a racial choice because of the higher CHA.

Regardless of potential CHA that lets human and half-elf argue for equivalency, drow gives more to most players unless they are willing or able to obtain the best gear.

Of course, that begs the question of whether the +1 DC is really critical to the character's success or not -- something for other threads.

Personally, I'm partial to warforged and elf. But, I can see the rationale for the other two (or three) races. And, IMO halfling and dwarf have nothing to recommend them as arcane classes.

Bodic
09-28-2011, 10:22 AM
Its more what you want than anything else.

Do you want Best DC's or Best survival. Each race has its benefits and its failings.

all around WF is good you lose 1DC to Drow, Human, and Helf dependant on gear.

Be Bold and go Drow Pale Master or Drow Earth Savant.

Bakarne
09-28-2011, 10:45 AM
Pointy ears trump all practical considerations. It takes some gear, but even an elven Wizard can self-heal without resorting to becoming a metal automaton or an unholy pale master.

Failedlegend
09-28-2011, 10:54 AM
I think it all depends on if you want to be a sorcerer or a wizard.

Sorcerer=Human

Wizard=Warforged


Slight Clarification

Wizard: Palemaster = Human Archmage = Warforged
Sorc: Warforged or Half-Elf w/FvS Dilly (Swap to Paladin Dilly when you get high enough UMD to Scroll Heal)

Note: Many wizards splash 2 rogue to get trap skills and more importantly evasion which when combined with insightful reflexes (makes reflex key of Int instead of dex) and your survivability skyrockets.

Alternative
09-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Humans are the best race for magic users because they can get the highest possible casting stat (int/cha) and get an extra feat that can be spent on some spell focus. WF gets nothing that improves casting so saying that they make the best casters is plain false. Self healing with recon is but a nice perk, but my human PM takes far less damage than my WF sorc (and both can be healed through healing curse)

Or just look up all the recent fleshy PMs soloing the hardest epic quests.

Letza
09-28-2011, 11:01 AM
In the case of sorcerer I'm not sure that it is much more than personal preference. And, in this case you also have to consider drow as a racial choice because of the higher CHA.

Yeah i thought being a drow sorc was the best when I made my currently capped sorc. But then I found out at end game Human has just one less Cha point than a Drow would. And most of the time the Drow sorc will have an odd Cha, (depending on what Items you pick up) (This is also all assuming you started with max Cha at lvl 1). So in the end I now believe Human is in fact better than Drow.

I do agree with what you said for wizard. I just said my personal opinion on that one. I played an Elven Wizard PM to lvl 18 and he isn't all that great. So my next life on my sorc (after the monk one) is gonna be a WF AM Wiz.

Uska
09-28-2011, 11:02 AM
WF for sorc. Drow or human for palemaster

dkyle
09-28-2011, 11:17 AM
WF gets nothing that improves casting so saying that they make the best casters is plain false.

That doesn't follow. A character is a full package, not just a single role. A "caster" shouldn't be judged just by their casting. Their survivability matters too. Just as a melee DPS character isn't just DPS, and nothing else. HP matter too. Self-healing on a melee is useful too, but the top of the line melee classes generally don't have much access to it, the way Arcanes do.

Phemt81
09-28-2011, 11:20 AM
Gnome :rolleyes:

Vellrad
09-28-2011, 01:24 PM
DWARF IS THE MASTER RACE

But more seriously, take anything you want.
For 1st caster, WF wiz is probably easiest way to learn the class, as wizards get more feats and spell to experiment and determine how to play arcane. Testing each spell is important to know which are good, and which don't. It is impossible on sorc, as it takes 3 days to swap single spell, instead of 1 second.
WF gives nice immunities, more con, meaning more HP.
Having this 2 things allows you to survive some mistakes, so as very easy acces to self healing spells.

Personally, I like dwarven palemaster most, because of huge amount of HP and very high saves, without any serious casting gimping.

DakFrost
09-28-2011, 01:35 PM
I find that if you enjoy being alive, then WarForged is the way to go. However, if you enjoy fun backpack rides then fleshie casters are awesome.

bigolbear
09-28-2011, 01:58 PM
welcome to the forums and ddo.

Whats the best race for arcane?
Well i think there are good and bad for several races, and its kinda dependant on whether you want to go wizard or sorc, both are good and generaly wizards make beter crowd controlers, and instant killers with spells that are harder to resist and sorcs make better nukers blasting enemies to bits as they cast faster and have more spell points. Its quite possible tho to make a sorc thats based around instant effect spells or a wizard designed to nuke.


lets look at the races:
first the free to play ones.

Human wizard: allround good choice - no downsides, 1 extra feat is useful but wizards have many feats. can +1 to casting stat using human adaptability.
Human sorc: allround good choice - no downsides, 1 extra feat is very useful, sorcs can make good use of this.can +1 to casting stat using human adaptability.

Elf wizard: excelent at breaking enemy spell resistance, bonus mana, can be very fragile due to penalty to health. interesting posibilites for advanced builds using arcane archer prestige.
Elf sorc: no real advantages, can be very fragile due to penalty to health.

Dwarf wizard: Tuffer, bonus to saves - especialy fortitude where wizards are weak. no disadvantages.
Dwarf sorc: Tuffer, bonus to saves - especialy fortitude where sorcs are weak. inherant penalty to charisma which is a sorcs casting stat means the spells will be 5% easier to resist.

Halfling wizard: physicaly weaker - can strugle carying loot. interesting posibilites with both the dragon mark of healing and heroes companion enhancement for a more support oriented wizard advanced build.
Halfling sorc: same as wizard.

and the pay to play races/favour races:

drow wizard: harder to resist spells and inherant spell resistance make drow good spell duelers. They are however quite fragile in comparison to other races.
drow sorc: same as wizard.

Warforge wizard: Tuffer, some useful imunities, self healing via repair spells. no significant cons.
Warforge sorc: Tuffer, some useful imunities, superior self healing via repair spells due to casting speed. inherant penalty to charisma which is a sorcs casting stat means the spells will be 5% easier to resist.

half elf wizard: many posibilites dependant on dilitant feat choice to incrase surviveability or function. interesting dragon mark for a lightning specced wizard. overall not bad but not amazing.
half elf sorc: same as wizard: please note that the dragon mark of storm is curently bugged if combined with air savant - this should be a great combo but its been bugged for 3 updates now - dont go there.

half orc wizard: half orcs make less than average casters due to penalties to casting stat, could make for an interesting battle mage type build but i wouldnt recomend for your first magic user.
half orc sorc: same.


Its generaly agreed that the best magic users are human, warforge, half elf and drow in no particular order - debate rages on. my personal preference is warforge, though i have casters of other races as well.

LordMond63
09-28-2011, 05:18 PM
Slight Clarification

Wizard: Palemaster = Human Archmage = Warforged
Sorc: Warforged or Half-Elf w/FvS Dilly (Swap to Paladin Dilly when you get high enough UMD to Scroll Heal)

Note: Many wizards splash 2 rogue to get trap skills and more importantly evasion which when combined with insightful reflexes (makes reflex key of Int instead of dex) and your survivability skyrockets.

I can't speak as to the Pale Master because I haven't played one (yet...I still have character slots though).

But I definitely wanted to echo Failed's "Note". I could not agree more. I have a WF ROG/WIZ(AM) and the Rogue splash not only adds to her survivability but also to her versatility. I find that, at level 16, I can handle most traps and locks that I run into (gear does help a bit here) which makes her even more of an asset to the group. Being able to handle multiple roles in a group lessens the chances of getting bored with a character.

Vellrad
09-29-2011, 08:59 AM
welcome to the forums and ddo.

Whats the best race for arcane?
Well i think there are good and bad for several races, and its kinda dependant on whether you want to go wizard or sorc, both are good and generaly wizards make beter crowd controlers, and instant killers with spells that are harder to resist and sorcs make better nukers blasting enemies to bits as they cast faster and have more spell points. Its quite possible tho to make a sorc thats based around instant effect spells or a wizard designed to nuke.


lets look at the races:
first the free to play ones.

Human wizard: allround good choice - no downsides, 1 extra feat is useful but wizards have many feats. can +1 to casting stat using human adaptability.
Human sorc: allround good choice - no downsides, 1 extra feat is very useful, sorcs can make good use of this.can +1 to casting stat using human adaptability.

Elf wizard: excelent at breaking enemy spell resistance, bonus mana, can be very fragile due to penalty to health. interesting posibilites for advanced builds using arcane archer prestige.
Elf sorc: no real advantages, can be very fragile due to penalty to health.

Dwarf wizard: Tuffer, bonus to saves - especialy fortitude where wizards are weak. no disadvantages.
Dwarf sorc: Tuffer, bonus to saves - especialy fortitude where sorcs are weak. inherant penalty to charisma which is a sorcs casting stat means the spells will be 5% easier to resist.

Halfling wizard: physicaly weaker - can strugle carying loot. interesting posibilites with both the dragon mark of healing and heroes companion enhancement for a more support oriented wizard advanced build.
Halfling sorc: same as wizard.

and the pay to play races/favour races:

drow wizard: harder to resist spells and inherant spell resistance make drow good spell duelers. They are however quite fragile in comparison to other races.
drow sorc: same as wizard.

Warforge wizard: Tuffer, some useful imunities, self healing via repair spells. con is quite high TP cost
Warforge sorc: Tuffer, some useful imunities, superior self healing via repair spells due to casting speed. inherant penalty to charisma which is a sorcs casting stat means the spells will be 5% easier to resist.

half elf wizard: many posibilites dependant on dilitant feat choice to incrase surviveability or function. interesting dragon mark for a lightning specced wizard. overall not bad but not amazing.
half elf sorc: same as wizard: please note that the dragon mark of storm is curently bugged if combined with air savant - this should be a great combo but its been bugged for 3 updates now - dont go there.

half orc wizard: half orcs make less than average casters due to penalties to casting stat, could make for an interesting battle mage type build but i wouldnt recomend for your first magic user.
half orc sorc: same.


Its generaly agreed that the best magic users are human, warforge, half elf and drow in no particular order - debate rages on. my personal preference is warforge, though i have casters of other races as well.

Its bassically a good post, except you forgotten about something I add.

Tolath
09-30-2011, 08:33 PM
i think you received alot replies until now and they said everything.

but really just make whatever you like.dont bother about who is little more powerful than the other.casters used to be a hard class to play so everything is about know the game and experience.you have to learn alot of spells and as well learn alot of things about the mobs will fight.about immunities,weak save,resistance etc.

apart of all this that you have to learn you character should have 3 things as wizard good dc because the group usually wants to you to cc mobs and can survive because sometimes you have to kite and play the survivor.
and some dmg for bosses.

all guys above me say everything about the bonus each race gives so i note some things that dont depend on your race but on you.

sephiroth1084
09-30-2011, 09:04 PM
Highly dependent upon both which class you're choosing and which prestige if a wizard.

Pale Master: Human, Drow and Elf are all basically tied with advantages going to each:
-Human: extra feat, 2nd best (maybe tied for 1st depending on gear) spell DCs
-Drow: highest (maybe tied for 1st depending on gear) spell DCs and innate spell resistance (useful while leveling, not so much at endgame)
-Elf: best spell penetration available; enhancements can act as a proxy feat tying them with humans if you count them as a replacement for the (Greater) Spell Penetration a human would have taken

Non-Pale Master wizard: Warforged is number one for the self-healing and immunities, though any of the above races will work with a little more caution.

Sorcerer: Warforged is the most survivable, but takes a hit to DCs, while the races for Pale Master basically hold true with the same benefits and caveats as I mentioned for the non-PMs in regards to lacking self-healing.

Dwarves are okay for wizards, but really end up being basically strictly worse than WF, and are downright poor for sorcerers.
Halflings don't offer any advantages at all.
Half-orcs are rather poor for sorcerers unless you're planning on being devoted to melee, and offer no advantages to wizards other than melee ability.

Half-elves...I don't know what benefits they provide here. Scroll use without UMD for wizards? A small saves boost for sorcerers? Healing amp (which is rather unnecessary)?